****LIVE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL 1/24/20 THREAD 3****

[BumRushDaShow]

Thread 1 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212904989
Thread 2 - https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212905529

[BumRushDaShow]

1. Zoe Lofgren is now walking through how the President ordered refusals to comply

[crickets]

2. Thanks again for setting up these threads, BumRushDaShow!

[gademocrat7]

3. Yes, thank you BumRushDaShow!

[MFGsunny]

4. + 1000 n/t

[BumRushDaShow]

6. You are welcome all

Trying to keep the threads under 100 replies for those who have slower connections/dialup/cell access only!

[BumRushDaShow]

5. Lofgren noting that the President would have veto power over Congress and Congress wasn't having it

[BumRushDaShow]

7. Lofgren going through person by person, those told not to cooperate, and what their roles were

[crickets]

9. It's like Trump just waves a magic wand whenever he doesn't like something.

It was outrageous enough watching this happen in real time; it's just stunning seeing a recap now. The enormity of it all is much more obvious when it's laid out all at once.

[Mersky]

16. At 5:05 ET Has included the following:

OMB officials:
Russell Vought, Michael Duffey, Brian McCormack

Chief of Staff: mick mulvaney (also OMB director); Robert Blair - Assistant to the pResident and senior advisor to the chief of staff

NSC Attorney: John Eisenberg

State Dept: T. Ulrich Brechbuhl (briefed on giuliani’s efforts to meddle in Ukraine; corroborated by text between ambassadors)

And eight witnesses that did appear, defying WH orders: Yovanovitch, Sondland, Kent, Taylor, Cooper, Sandy, Croft, Anderson

[BumRushDaShow]

8. Lofgren going over the criminal penalties if employees were to defy lawful Congressional subpoenas

which put them in legal jeopardy.

[BumRushDaShow]

10. Lofgren has concluded her portion and Val Demmings is up to go through a final set of facts.

[BumRushDaShow]

11. Demmings played the clip with Yovanovich referencing the "witness intimidation" that went on w/her

[malaise]

12. Love the witness intimidation discussion going on now

Go Dems!

[BumRushDaShow]

13. Demmings concludes - "We cannot and must not condone attacks on whistleblowers and witnesses"

[BumRushDaShow]

14. Jerrold Nadler up to go through the law and Congress

[nolabear]

15. Rep. Nadler addressing the importance of info gathering.

I notice they seem to be approaching the Senate as colleagues who can help them do an important job.

I suspect the GOP will not do the same.

[crickets]

17. Nadler: Your job as a member of Congress is to hold the Executive branch in check.

This is true no matter who occupies the office of President, and no matter which party controls the House or Senate. The further any President departs from the law and the Constitution, the more important it is for you to do your job.

[Mersky]

18. Slide: Law

- Categorical stonewalling constitutes obstruction of Congress

- Obstruction of Congress warrants removal from office

[BumRushDaShow]

19. Nadler reiterating the Constitutional framework of impeachment and the ability to "discover"

[Hermit-The-Prog]

20. this date, this Senate destroyed our greatest defense against tyranny

[BumRushDaShow]

22. I know I have posted before that

our whole system of government is based on the "honor system". And when you break that honor (and have a whole political party in elective office doing so) then you are screwed.

[Mersky]

21. Slide: Presidents Nixon and tRump

President Nixon:
- Allowed WH officials to testify
- Allowed senior Executive Branch officials to testify
- Allowed Executive Branch agencies to turn over documents
- Turned over many of his own WH documents


pResident tRump:
- Prohibited all testimony
- Concealed all documents

(Actual slide appeared with side by side columns)

[BumRushDaShow]

23. Nadler walking through examples of past Presidential compliance with Congressional subpoenas

[crickets]

24. Trump's obstruction is an extension of his coverup.

Reveals consciousness of guilt. Innocent people do not act this way and try to hide evidence.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

25. and he obstructs us from our documents and employees

[crickets]

26. Judge Jackson's rulings re subpoenas

https://www.vox.com/2019/11/26/20983827/trump-house-subpoena-mcgahn-jackson-judiciary-testify

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local/legal-issues/former-white-house-counsel-donald-mcgahn-must-comply-with-house-subpoena-judge-rules/2019/11/25/6de26cc8-018d-11ea-8bab-0fc209e065a8_story.html

The Justice Department’s claim to “unreviewable absolute testimonial immunity,” Jackson wrote, “is baseless, and as such, cannot be sustained.”

The judge ordered McGahn to appear before the House committee and said her conclusion was “inescapable” because a subpoena demand is part of the legal system — not the political process — and “per the Constitution, no one is above the law.” [snip]

The Justice Department early Tuesday filed a notice of appeal and asked the court to stay Jackson’s order until the case is resolved.

[BumRushDaShow]

27. Nadler concludes with if he continues to ignore Congress- "He is a dictator and it must not stand."

[crickets]

34. Again, Nadler has done an excellent job.

He was a bit of a pushover at first when chairing some of the House hearings, but not in these hearings. All of the House managers have been brilliant. They just keep gathering steam.

[Sunsky]

63. I agree nt

[bdamomma]

59. That is the

truth. We will never be the same again. It is all up to us.

[BumRushDaShow]

28. Zoe Lofgren (D-CA) is now up to continue the narrative

[Mersky]

29. Slide: Presidents' Compliance with Congressional Subpoenas

President Reagan - Iran Contra
- by former Nat’l Security Advisor
- Testimony by former Assistant to the President
- Reagan produced excerpts of his personal diaries

President Clinton
- Testimony of Chief of Staff and WH Counsel

President Obama - Benghazi Investigations
- Testimony by National Security Advisor and her Deputy
- Produced over 75,000 pages of documents
- Including 1,450 pages of WH emails

pResident tRump
- No Testimony
- No Documents

[crickets]

32. Here's hoping it's the one about Nixon

That was a beaut. Even Nixon recognized the power of the subpoena and ordered his staff to comply with them.

[eta and his fatal mistake was attempting to ignore the subpoena aimed at him]

[Mersky]

43. Not Nixon, but it does reveal that tRump is an obstructing fool

[bdamomma]

57. just a correction

pResident tRump

thug personified

[Mersky]

62. Thanks! Fixed it.

Totally is thug personified, and undeserving of capitalization.

[BumRushDaShow]

30. President cannot be immune from both indictment and impeachment

[BumRushDaShow]

31. Lofgren now talking about the SCOTUS case - Nixon vs United States

regarding the unanimous ruling about blanket "executive privilege".

[crickets]

38. Nixon v United States 1993

https://www.cnn.com/2019/10/24/politics/the-other-nixon-trump-impeachment/index.html

In the 1993 case of Nixon v. United States, the Supreme Court ruled impeachment "nonjusticiable," that is, a political question. Under the Constitution, Congress bears the responsibility and control for a presidential impeachment. [snip]

Under the Constitution, then-Chief Justice William Rehnquist wrote in Nixon v. US, "the whole of the impeachment power is divided between the two legislative bodies, with the House given the right to accuse and the Senate given the right to judge." The Constitution gives the House "sole" power to impeach and the Senate "sole" power to try a case.

Rehnquist grounded the court's decision in the words and history of the Constitution and added, "opening the door of judicial review to the procedures used by the Senate in trying impeachments would expose the political life of the country to months, or perhaps years, of chaos.

[BumRushDaShow]

39. Funny but that is what I thought she said and wrote that first and then edited it

(I think because she then said something about the 1970s in there too)

[crickets]

40. She muddled it a bit by mixing comments about President Nixon's executive powers

in the middle of discussing the case re Judge Nixon. It wasn't just you who noticed that and did a double-take. I think she should have finished the one point before making the other.

[BumRushDaShow]

41. Yes! I knew there was the other "Nixon" case that wasn't related to the Prez.

Thank you - that is why I went the way I did (but just corrected).

[crickets]

49. NP, you have been working hard on these!

Here's the other case, for completion:

United States v Nixon 1974

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_v._Nixon

The Court's opinion found that the courts could indeed intervene on the matter and that Special Counsel Jaworski had proven a "sufficient likelihood that each of the tapes contains conversations relevant to the offenses charged in the indictment". While the Court acknowledged that the principle of executive privilege did exist, the Court would also directly reject President Nixon's claim to an "absolute, unqualified Presidential privilege of immunity from judicial process under all circumstances."

The Court held that a claim of Presidential privilege as to materials subpoenaed for use in a criminal trial cannot override the needs of the judicial process if that claim is based, not on the ground that military or diplomatic secrets are implicated, but merely on the ground of a generalized interest in confidentiality. Nixon was then ordered to deliver the subpoenaed materials to the District Court.

Nixon resigned sixteen days later, on August 9, 1974.

[BumRushDaShow]

50. Yup - that is the one that broke it all open

And I remember watching on TV when Nixon resigned (just under a month after my dad had died).

[BumRushDaShow]

33. Can't argue here (in Senate) to go to court and then in court insist that you can't argue in court

[BumRushDaShow]

35. Lofgren - Invoking Lindsey Graham from 1998

[BumRushDaShow]

36. Lofgren with slide showing suits of subpoena enforcement (Miers/Holder/McGahn)

[Mersky]

37. Slide: Representative lindsey graham (1998)

(Pic of smiling, youthful graham)

“The day Richard Nixon failed to answer that subpoena is the day he was subject to impeachment because he took the power from Congress over the impeachment process away from Congress, and he became the judge and jury.”

[BumRushDaShow]

42. Lofgren has concluded and now Hakeem Jeffries (D-NY) is up to continue...

[BumRushDaShow]

44. Jeffries - Advice from his church on public presentation - "Be brief, be right, and be gone"

[elleng]

45. I LOVE Jeffries!

He'd be my rep, if I/we hadn't left Brooklyn 70 years ago!!!

[BumRushDaShow]

46. Jeffries showing clips of Drump calling himself "The Chosen One"

(in this context)

[Hoyt]

47. Our managers have performed well, but it's getting time to put Schiff up to close this

out in early prime time. Then, let the GOPers look stupid to anyone who really cares.

[BumRushDaShow]

48. Since there is a 99% chance they won't have witnesses or subpoenas

then THIS will be their only way to get their info out.

[BumRushDaShow]

51. Jeffries: "This is America. He cannot be judge, jury and executioner"

[BumRushDaShow]

52. Jeffries reiterating that a "formal vote" by the full House is NOT required to start an inquiry

[Mersky]

53. Slide: Why pResident tRump's Excuses Fail

1. The House, not the President, sets its own procedure
2. A House impeachment inquiry is not a full-blown trial
3. No basis in history or past practice
4. Ignores a key resolution approved by the House

[BumRushDaShow]

54. Jeffries is walking through the House role ("Grand Jury") vs the Senate role ("Trial")

[bdamomma]

55. Yea Hakeem

I like him, he's so good and compassionate with his argument.

McConnell head is going to blow up!!

[Hermit-The-Prog]

56. I like how he shreds trump "defense" points

[BumRushDaShow]

58. Jeffries is correcting the GOP b.s. about the closed-door testimonies

[ancianita]

61. The manager team has smashed all Republican and president arguments. They've killed it.

If there's ever occasion for a future impeachment, they will provide the best historical model of prosecution.

[BumRushDaShow]

64. I had heard from the pundits that they would "pre-rebut" what will be the GOP arguments

[ancianita]

65. In this bad faith environment it's the only way to prosecute: shut down their defense in advance.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

67. except GOPers just want an excuse to keep grifting and destroying

[BumRushDaShow]

60. Jeffries - played clip invoking Gowdy's insistence in the use of "private" witness testimony!

[BumRushDaShow]

66. Invoking Gowdy, Chaffetz, et al

[Mersky]

68. Points out that the subpoena rules used over the tRump impeachment inquiry

Are the same rules the republicans put in place when they were in the majority.

[BumRushDaShow]

69. Jeffries: "Every single court has rejected the so-called concept of 'absolute immunity'"

[Mersky]

70. tRump never invoked executive privilege, and so

Is not a credible defense

[BumRushDaShow]

71. Jeffries - "God help us all if we choose to abandon it"

[eleny]

73. Jeffries was awesome and gave me goosebumps

Wow, just wow.

[BumRushDaShow]

75. Am listening to a Schumer presser right now and he said the same about Jeffries

(fellow NYers )

[eleny]

78. Born and raised there myself! Must be in our dna.

[BumRushDaShow]

80. Know many NYers (Brooklynites)

and yup!

[eleny]

95. That's where I was born - must be the water, then

[BumRushDaShow]

72. ****30 MINUTE RECESS****

[bdamomma]

74. God Help Us

is right.


We have a unspiritual POS in office.

[Arkansas Granny]

76. I have been so impressed with the House managers. They have laid out their case

using provable facts, direct quotes and videos. Their demeanor has been serious and respectful. No screaming, hysterics, name calling or snotty remarks. Speaker Pelosi chose well.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

77. PBS replaying Jason Crow from earlier

[ecstatic]

79. Did Nixon and Clinton's impeachment trial have multiple house managers presenting? nt

[BumRushDaShow]

85. Nixon's never got that far and Clinton had the GOP members of the House Judiciary

acting as the "Managers".

[BumRushDaShow]

81. ****BACK IN SESSION****

[hlthe2b]

83. How many hours do we have left?

[Hermit-The-Prog]

86. countdown to dictatorship?

[BumRushDaShow]

87. Not sure - I think they had about 8 1/2 hrs left when they started

which (with the breaks) could take them to about 10 pm if they use it all (they may or may not do that).

[Hermit-The-Prog]

84. Thanks! I thought that was PBS replaying Crow again.

[BumRushDaShow]

82. Jason Crow (D-CO) is continuing the argument of Drumpf as a threat

[Hermit-The-Prog]

88. should be something about clear, present, consistent danger

[bdamomma]

90. and he is risk to

to the American people, too.

So what is this now the wrong side presenting their lame case.

[BumRushDaShow]

89. Crow had ticked off all the fictional "rights" that the WH lawyers have claimed Drumpf had

in defying anything that Congress requested and regarding any ability to be charged - whether federally or by any state.

[BumRushDaShow]

91. Crow invoked a Scalia quote - this has "fractured the credulity of the credible"

[BumRushDaShow]

92. Crow has concluded.

[BumRushDaShow]

93. ****LIVE IMPEACHMENT TRIAL 1/24/20 THREAD 4**** UP

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100212906710

[elleng]

94. Last presentation of the evening, Adam Schiff.

[blogslut]

96. "That has been proved"

Damn, Mr. Schiff is good.