General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsStudent loans and intergenerational warfare: random thoughts
I read a lot about tension between generations on all kinds of fronts-- in the workplace, relative to environmental issues, affordable housing, tech. One that flares up here and within the party is student loans. Everybody has feelings about student loans.
I'm a Gen X-er. Mostly we stand off to the side, watching Millennials & Gen Z squabbling with Boomers, and vice versa, hoping that no one notices us. We're pretty successful at that. As a group, we're smaller and quieter. We are less successful at work than those before us and after us, but we're the workhorses. Not digitally native but capable. Latchkey kids who became slackers, cynics & nihilists, reportedly. We are highly educated compared to our Boomer parents-- more than 60% of us attended college at some point. So we hear you on the student loan issue.
When my mom went to college (a state school in MA), she was able to earn enough to pay for school by working over seasonal breaks. Yes, she lived at home with her family and commuted, but imagine being able to pay for school by working summers and holidays. When I finally got serious about school (and it took me a while) I didn't consider private schools, because, hi, who has that kind of money? I lived in New England, where state schools were expensive. So, I moved to WA and got a restaurant job, then attended Settle Central Community College for 2 years. Community college is cheap, gang. Paid for it out-of-pocket. Right now, SCCC annual in-state tuition is hovering around $3500. After 2 years, I transferred to University of WA, kept working full-time, and graduated 2 years later magna cum laude. In-state tuition today at UW is around $10,200, higher than the national average of about $7200.
My brother went to UNH, and brother- and sister-in-law went to private schools and used student loans to cover living expenses. Their loans are all still astronomical. I attended a good university but worked and used loans for tuition and books only. I then did 2 years of national service, got my loans small enough to drown in a bathtub (h/t to Grover), and paid them off quickly by paying twice the principal. At that time (early 2000s) it was possible to get an education without a lifetime of debt. It still is but it's a lot harder.
For someone like me, it's a little hard to swallow student loan forgiveness because I worked hard to do it myself, and watched family members have a much easier time of it by subsidizing their lives with loans. I resent the idea of someone who may not need free tuition using it to go to a top-tier school that was never available to me. That is not an accusation against anyone, just my perspective.
Are there compromises? I strongly support free pre-K and kindergarten for all (tangentially related, yes, but everyone should get off on the right foot). I strongly support free or heavily-subsidized community college and trade schools. I strongly support interest caps on student loans. I strongly support legislation against loan holders double-dipping by selling student loan debt.
I don't intend to be mean or petty-- no one deserves a lifetime of debt-- but can you see through my eyes on this issue?
jimfields33
(15,948 posts)Gen X here and similar situation.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)graduated loan forgiveness based on public service
stipends (for books,transportation,....) for students with family incomes below $50K (pick a number this is just a suggestion), because when the family income is low the child can't attend college because the cost of college beyond tuition is outside of the family ability to cover.
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)Student loans should be capped at their current rates, at the most, but when the market has lower interest rates borrowers should get the benefit of that. I refinanced my law school loans with a private lender because I couldn't justify continuing to pay 6.8-7.9% interest when market rates were half that. But in exchange, I gave up certain protections federal loans have. It was the right decision for me because I had enough saved, a stable job, and family I could fall back on in the absolute worst case. But most people are not so fortunate, and at a minimum, they should be able to get the protections of federal loans, like hardship deferments, without having to pay 1980's level interest rates.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)to start a career, buy a house or anything else for that matter...
democrattotheend
(11,607 posts)Although I didn't think interest rates in the 1980's were 20% - I thought they were high single digits to mid teens.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)The federal funds rate, which was about 11% in 1979, rose to 20% by June 1981. The prime interest rate, an important economic measure, eventually reached 21.5% in June 1982.
Fresh_Start
(11,330 posts)subsidize college for higher income families.
this is due to the higher participation rate in college at higher incomes...and the fact that higher income household also will chose higher cost colleges.
there should be an income and asset cutoff when you and your family pay for college.
late boomer with college loans from both undergraduate and graduate school...who is sandwich generation paying for college from children while also supporting parent with poor health
it really should be free for good students with little/no family resources...but not free for the affluent
yewberry
(6,530 posts)I do think two years at a CC or trade school should be free. Also, a lot of people don't have clear goals at first and this would give them time to find their direction without spending a lot of money figuring it out.
MissB
(15,812 posts)Dh walked out of undergrad with no student loans. Hes a dinosaur so his parents were able to pay his way out of pocket (FIL was a logger, mil was a part time bookkeeper). Dhs employer later paid for his masters degree at an Ivy, giving him a year off to go get it.
I walked out of undergrad with $30k in student loans. My parents couldnt/wouldnt pay for college. I couldnt make enough working in the summer to pay for everything.
Im not bitter because others attend college for little to no money. I had a heck of a good grade/high school education that allowed me to pursue my engineering degree. Society already helped me by landing me in good school districts along the way.
Our kids dont have loans- they earned free rides. Its a bit unfair because we really did seek out a very good school district for them, and we couldve afforded to pay their way. But they applied where they wanted to be and kept within our confines of what wed pay (equivalent to instate $). The oldest may go to an Ivy for grad school - hell make his decision in April. Its a fully funded Ph.D program.
I dont begrudge anyone that gets their loans forgiven. The parent plus loans are such a racket- Ive told my coworkers horror story of owing nearly a half mil in parent plus loans. He will never repay them.
Parents know that many kids need college to be seen as successful in life. Not 100% true, but a college education certainly provides a citizen with a greater understanding of the world around them.
For what this country spends on defense and ancillary services, we should be able to provide the best education from preschool to Ph.D.
Life isnt fair. But we can be better.
I don't think I can get on board with total loan forgiveness but can't disagree that we certainly can and should do better.
Piasladic
(1,160 posts)amen
yewberry
(6,530 posts)I looked it up, though YYMV.
Despite their growing influence and responsibilities at work, Gen Xers are most overlooked for promotion and have been the slowest to advance. We found Gen X leaders on average had only 1.2 promotions in the past 5 years, significantly lower than their younger millennial counterparts (1.6 promotions) and more senior baby boomers (1.4 promotions) during the same period of time.
While Gen X leaders are often under-recognized for the critical role they play in leadership, they are typically expected to take on heavy workloads. On average, Gen X leaders have 7 direct reports, compared to only 5 direct reports for millennials. While their advancement rate is slower and their teams larger, Gen X remain loyal employees. Only 37 percent contemplate leaving to advance their careers five percentage points lower than millennials.
https://www.cnbc.com/2018/04/11/generation-x--not-millennials--is-changing-the-nature-of-work.html