"The other jackhole is the @AmericanAir flight attendant who reprimanded me and offered him rum!"

[Floyd R. Turbo]

An airline passenger's video of a man punching the back of her seat sparked an online debate: Is it OK to recline when sitting in economy?

Wendi Williams said on Twitter that she was on an American Airlines flight from New Orleans to Charlotte when she decided to put her seat in the recline position.

The man behind her responded by repeatedly punching her seat, Williams wrote.

"Here’s a great jackhole! He was angry that I reclined my seat and punched it about 9 times — HARD, at which point I began videoing him, and he resigned to this behavior," Williams tweeted Saturday with a video of the man behind her hitting the back of her seat. It's not clear what happened before or after Williams started filming.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/airline-passenger-films-man-punching-her-economy-seat-after-she-n1136266

[BusyBeingBest]

1. Well, sounds like neither of them enjoyed the flight, so it worked out fine.

[Renew Deal]

2. It's OK for anyone to recline all the way anywhere on the plane

And anyone that doesn't like it can get over it.

[cate94]

3. You also have the right to cough

Or sneeze without covering your mouth properly, that doesn’t mean you should.

[Renew Deal]

7. Not the same thing

[cate94]

16. The commonality

Is consideration. Anyone who has ever flown on a plane knows there is little leg room and it’s tight, even when the seat is up.
You may have a right to do something, it doesn’t make it the right thing to do.
Although, I will say banging on the seat is even worse.

[phylny]

43. So, if the person in front of her has reclined their seat, she is supposed to be the one to be

squashed? No. He either didn't for an upgrade, or none was available. That's not her problem. Too bad for the guy, his behavior was unacceptable.

[cate94]

54. Agreed

His behavior was completely unacceptable.
As an FYI, if the guy in front of me reclines, I still don’t recline. However, I completely understand that in that circumstance, some people may feel the need to recline. I don’t blame them.

[Blue_true]

47. Fly First Class or Business Class, there is plenty of leg room. nt

[cate94]

55. True

First class and business class are great. Most people can’t afford that upgrade. I think sitting upright for a few hours is the nice thing to do. It’s easy and it’s thoughtful of the person behind you. Simple.
Of course, if it’s a red eye, or your flying overseas, it’s a different story entirely. And for overseas travel, personally, business class is a must.

[Blue_true]

56. For overseas business class flights a person can sleep in transit,

that helps for long flights where a person is flying to an earlier time zone.

For domestic flights, the upgrade doesn't cost much more than one pays for getting a seat on the plane.

[Drahthaardogs]

4. Sure. Then dont complain when I put my laptop up

And bang away and it vibrates. Its my prerogative. Its my space

[Renew Deal]

8. OK

[Bonx]

10. I suppose you will be allowed a tantrum to some degree before a flight attanedant makes you stop.

Enjoy that.

[Drahthaardogs]

15. It happens every time. Some jackoff reclines all the way

Then gives you dirty looks because every keystroke vibrates their chair.

[coti]

24. Nothing like a little DU vicarious/imaginary conflict to brighten up one's day!

It puzzles me why people are so eager to get involved in petty conflicts like this. Honestly- who gives a shit? Playground drama garbage.

[SallyHemmings]

5. I fly for work & vacation

The whole process is a pain in the backside.

You can pay for extra leg room. His behavior was disgraceful.

[Shrike47]

27. I recommend sneezing into the hair of any person who reclines a seat in front of you.

On the last plane trip I took, first class was sold out several months before the flight. Flying economy is intolerable these day.

IMO, Congress should require for safety reasons that the cheapest seats on any airplane be no narrower than the seated width of the hips of the average 60 year old American female. That would allow more room for a safe exit in an emergency and reduce friction amongst the passengers in flight.

[Renew Deal]

49. It's telling that wealthy people such as yourself would even think of sneezing on someone.

[Blue_true]

46. I would ask the person sitting behind me whether it is ok to recline.

That should be done anywhere on the plane, even in First and Business Class where the seats are farther apart.

[Renew Deal]

48. Go ahead. But you don't need their permission.

It's not their seat. It's yours.

[Blue_true]

50. I don't care that I need their permission.

I ask anyway and if they say reclining the seat will be a problem, I don't do it.

[cate94]

57. This!

Very considerate of you!

[Happy Hoosier]

59. It's still rude.

With the seat pitch tighter and tighter, reclining expresses a disregard to the comfort of the person behind you. I feel like a dentist when someone fully reclines in front of me... their head is in my lap! And I am often unable to effectively my own space. I usually politely request for the person to raise their seat at least some. Almost all comply. Those that do not! Usually find that I inadvertently (really) hit their seat back as I try to make use of my space.

[Renew Deal]

60. The seats don't recline that far in coach.

Also, you can recline your seat. And no one is obligated to fully recline.

[Happy Hoosier]

61. I'm a big guy...

If someone reclines in front of me, it most certainly affects me. It is not mere annoyance. If I decline at all (sometimes on night flights), it is slight. I never recline on day flights.

[Renew Deal]

63. I recline slightly on all flights

Probably more at night. It's not comfortable to sit with the seat fully up for a long time.

[Demonaut]

58. there is no space, I've wanted to recline but as having your face mere inches away from a seat back

no way, I wouldn't be that kind of asshole

[MineralMan]

6. I never recline my seat in planes.

The difference in angle is minuscule and it annoys the person sitting behind me. I can sit anywhere for up to 5 hours without reclining my seat 5 degrees.

If the person in front of me reclines their seat, I just live with it, though. Personally, I wish none of the seats in economy class reclined. There really isn't adequate room.

[ProfessorGAC]

12. Same Here

And because of work, I've been on a plane nearly 1200 times.
If in Biz class on overseas trips, OK. But in coach, we can all sit upright for 3 or 4 hours.
Also agree that should just eliminate that feature from the seats.

[Ms. Toad]

18. No, we can't.

See my reply below.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=12985106

[Ms. Toad]

17. That 5 degrees saves me a month (or more) of backache.

It may not make a difference to you - but it does to some of us. My back's tolerance for the angle of the seats is barely long enough to make it to take-off. (I have a back injury that dates to the early 80s, and once set off it takes at least a month to return to the constant 1-2 level I live with all the time)

I intentionally avoid the back row in a plane, or the one just in front of an exit row. In September, the ability to recline was broken in the row I was in. After a single flight of less than an hour, I was in agony for the rest of the trip, and it was mid-December before my constant pain dropped below a 3.

From the article, it sounds as if the woman has similar issues with needing to recline for health reasons.

[MineralMan]

21. You know, I wasn't telling anyone what to do.

I was simply describing what I do. I don't complain if the person in front of me reclines. I simply don't do it, myself.

When I fly, I board the plane, sit down, buckle up and sit there until I get off the plane at my destination. What others do is not really my concern. I will be happy to have a conversation with someone sitting next to me, or I can sit there silently and use my mobile device in airplane mode or read the magazine I bought at the airport.

It's very rare that I would need to get up from my seat on anything other than a 5 hour or longer flight. My goal is to have a quiet, peaceful flight. If you want the armrest, that's fine with me. If you're wearing too much perfume or aftershave, I'll deal with it. My hope is that you will not notice me at all so I can think about something or look out the window if I have a window seat.

I am on the plane to fly from here to there. That's all. You can do as you please, as far as I'm concerned.

[Ms. Toad]

22. This comment implies, at a minimum, disdain for those who do.

If the person in front of me reclines their seat, I just live with it, though. Personally, I wish none of the seats in economy class reclined. There really isn't adequate room.

[MineralMan]

26. That's your perception, not what I said.

It implies nothing. In fact, I said that I don't do anything if someone reclines in front of me. Nothing. I just sit there with a little less space that I might have had. I can deal with that just fine.

As for my suggestion that no seats recline, yes, I do feel that way. I also think airline seats should be more comfortable for everyone. However, they do recline those 5 degrees or so, so there it is. I'd like a little better cushion on my seat, too, but I won't get that either. Oh, well. The flights I normally take are between 3 and 4 hours in length. I can sit anywhere for that length of time.

When I can, I pay about $25 extra for an exit row seat. I'm perfectly able to open the exit door and assist other passengers, so i get a little more leg room. But I have to pay for it. I'm flying next weekend to California on Delta, but no exit row seats were available. So, my wife and I will be sitting farther back on the plane, in a regular economy seat. It doesn't matter, though, since this will probably be my last chance to see my mother before she dies. So, I will sit there quietly and think about that for 3-4 hours. If you're in front of me, please feel free to recline your seat. You won't hear a peep from me, I promise.

Now, apparently, you can't, due to your neck or back issues. So, please feel free to recline in front of me. I won't say a word or make you uncomfortable in any way. That's not my style at all. I will adapt and cope with that situation. I won't complain. I won't grumble. I'll just sit there for that 3 or 4 hours and then get off the plane at my destination.

I get it that you don't like me very much. I'm sorry about that, but I have never complained, not even once, about someone reclining their seat in front of me. It's not my plane. It's not my seat. I'm just a paying passenger trying to get from here to there with the least amount of hassle.

I'm sorry you don't enjoy flying. I'm sorry you read something into my post that annoyed you. But, there it is, eh? I said what I do on planes. I did not tell you what you should do.

Bye, now...

[SWBTATTReg]

29. Well said. I just want to get on, and then get off when I'm there. Simple. ...

My vacation or work is NOT on the plane.

It's at my destination. That's the most important thing to me. Why make a scene when none is needed, and before you know it, you're there at your destination and then off the plane on to bigger and better things to do.

Air travel is gotten to be a mess. I try to avoid it, but sometimes you can't.

[MineralMan]

30. Yes. Everything I do with regard to flying is designed to

simplify my own experience. My trips through the TSA screenings are always completly uneventful, because I make them that way. I know what the screenings involve, and I don't put any stumbling blocks in the way of an event-free screening. My boarding pass and ID are even facing the right direction for the person who looks at them. I've made sure there's nothing in my pockets and that nothing about my carryon will cause any concern. I wear slip-on loafers so I don't have to mess with shoelaces, and my wallet, belt, keys, and other pocket contents are in my blazer pockets, with the blazer folded to fit into one of those plastic trays. I buy my bottle of water inside the secure area. I never beep. I never get held up. I never slow anyone else down.

I'm sitting in the boarding gate area in plenty of time and wait for my row to be called. Then I walk onto the plane, go to my seat's row and sit down. My carry-on fits under the seat in front of me, so I don't have to block the aisle while I shove it in the overhead bin, nor do I have to take it out at my destination. I have another bag that has been checked, if I'm going to be more than a day or two away from home.

Nobody will have to wait for me. I won't slow anyone down. I won't bother any other passengers about anything. I say please and thank you to the flight attendant who gives me a cup of coffee, and say thank you to the attendant at the door when I deplane. I smile. I never cause a problem for anyone. I'm an excellent passenger, but it's all for my own benefit. No hassle; no stress.

Do I love flying? Not so much, but I fly because I need to go somewhere, not for the "experience."

[Progressive Law]

32. Perception is reality...

Perception is reality. If you are perceived to be something, you might as well be it because that's the truth in people's minds. There are things known and there are things unknown, and in between are the doors of perception. Our understanding is correlative to our perception.

[MineralMan]

33. That is only true of the person stating that perception.

Not everyone will have the same perception.

I made it clear that I do not complain if someone reclines their seat. That is absolutely true. If the seat can recline, the passenger has a perfect right to recline it. I, personally, do not do that, out of consideration of the person behind me. But, I don't complain if someone reclines the seat in front of me. I deal with it internally, because that is my nature.

Perceptions are often incorrect if they assume what someone else thinks.

[Ms. Toad]

34. I suspect it is your way of phrasing things -

it feels like a judgment about people who don't live up to your standards. (Since I've seen others react to comments you've made in the same manner I think it is at least partly the way you phrase things,and not just my perception.)

[MineralMan]

39. Or your interpretation of that.

There is a history here, as you know.

[Ms. Toad]

40. Did you miss the part where I noted

that I have seen others react the same way? That kind of suggests it is not just my interpretation.

[MineralMan]

41. I'm not on DU to make friends with everyone.

This is a political forum and people disagree. I don't expect agreement. I post my opinions.

You and I have a history. I won't belabor that, but I always aware of it. It colors your opinion of my posts. That's fine, but it is a consideration for me.

[northoftheborder]

53. I also must recline (always the minimum amount for courtesy) because of back problems.

I cannot sit straight up for long periods without agony. You used to have enough room to recline more, but the tiny seat room now is criminal. Thankfully, I do not have to fly much.

[ProfessorGAC]

64. Same As My Wife

So, I do sympathize, but I'd still eliminate recliners.
My wife doesn't recline on the few plane trips we've taken together.
So, given her back issues, I'll stand by my original thought.

[Ms. Toad]

66. Back injuries are different.

Mine requires that I recline - not all back injuries do. Just because your wife, with her back injury, does not require it does not mean the same for me, with my back injury.

I have had a back spasm for about 36 years, triggered by an assault when I was a public school teacher. Much beyond 15 minutes in a vertical seat triggers an aggravation of the spasm I have lived with for that entire time. My pain level is never below a 1 or 2. Any person with any training at all in musculature can find the precise origin of the spasm in under 30 seconds, with no guidance at all from me (other than telling them it is on my back); It might take people without training perhaps 2 minutes - when the pain level is only a 1 or 2. When it is active, even an untrained person could find it within 30 seconds.

Sitting in an airplane seat (or any stackable chair) without reclining for more than around 15 minutes triggers the increasing muscle tightening around the focal point of the spasm that extends not just an inch or two above and below focal point of the spasm, but approximately 12 inches down, 4-5 inches up, and sideways about the same distance. Once aggravated, the spasm takes a month, minimum, with 20 hours of heat a day, to return to the background level of pain and spasm. The last trigger was, in fact, a plane ride on Delta in a seat that should have reclined, but didn't. Once I discovered it, we were in the air (the first opportunity to recline), and the plane was full so there were no opportunities to change seats. Five months later, I'm still feeling the impact of that one short plane ride in a non-reclining seat.

Not that it should matter, but I spent years seeking relief before I arrived at a few simple necessities to keep the pain level down to what I can live with: my posture is what it is and - although therapists don't like it, my back does; I sit on the floor if the only options are stackable chairs - in a pinch I can survive if I turn the seat 180 degrees and hang over the back; always choose an airplane seat that reclines. I've been treated by two different back injury teams, a pain management team, and more physical therapists than I an count. They all agree the spasm is there. None can find the cause of the spasm (e.g. an imperfection along my spinal column that irritates the adjacent muscle, a pinch that irritates the adjacent muscle). Physical therapists are fascinated - always believing that they will be the ones to cure it - even to the extent of ignoring that I was sent to them for treatment of vertigo (for example). They always make it worse, so I have taken to not disclosing it if I think I can get away with it - or insisting that my back is hands-off, they are not permitted to do anything that will aggravate it; if I say "no" to an activity they will find an alternative, etc.

Whatever your wife's needs are, they are apparently not as related to the angle of the seat as mine are.

[HarlanPepper]

9. I never recline on short flights.

That’s for amateurs who fly once every 10 years. There’s simply no need to do it. This guy is an asshole though. Big time.

[Ms. Toad]

20. I'm dumbfounded at everyone who assumes their situation is identical to everyone else's

It has nothing to do with being an amateur who flies once every 10 years. I used to fly several times a year. Some of us have injuries that are aggravated by the sharp vertical angle of the seat. Being a frequent flyer did not diminish my need to recline in order to avoid a month, or more, of back pain.

[HarlanPepper]

23. Exactly

Which is why it’s rude to recline on short flights. For all you know the person sitting behind you may have a knee or other physical problem of their own aggravated by someone in front of them reclining. Thanks for making my point for me.

[Ms. Toad]

37. I have purchased a seat that reclines.

And I intentionally avoid seats that do not reclime because I know that I need to recline. I assume someone who has a need not to have the seat in front recline into the space the owner of that seat purchased will similarly purchase a seat that includes the spade in front of them - like the first meets their needs.

It is not rude to use the space have purchased - and it is rude for you to tell me that I am not allowed to. If you need different space - do the same careful selection I always do to make sure I have a seat that reclines, since not all of them do.

So - no, I didn't make your point for you.

[shanti]

11. The kicker in question

was in the very back row of the plane, so he was unable to recline himself. It would have been nice for her not to recline hers for that reason, but maybe she was unaware? Why is it necessary to recline during a short flight though?

[Bonx]

14. Rule: If your seat reclines, feel free to recline.

People recline because they enjoy it and the seat is made to do it. Pretty simple.

[Ms. Toad]

19. It is necessary for me -

and it sounds to me as if it is necessary for the woman, as well:

"I’m done being quiet! I’ve had extensive neck surgeries - my cervical spine is completely fused ... I’ve lost time at work, had to visit a doctor, got x-rays, and have (had) horrible headaches for a week," Williams wrote.

[HarlanPepper]

25. Yes

Unfortunately as evidenced by some of the responses in this thread people who rarely fly are usually clueless about things like this. They’re the people who have to be told 10 times to take off their shoes and get rid of their water bottles by TSA.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

36. You don't actually have to get rid of the water bottle, ...

... just the water.

I chug mine, take the empty through security (never been a problem), then fill it at a water fountain. Seems better than paying "airport price" for a pint of water. I like having a bottle of water when I fly.

[HarlanPepper]

38. Yes, to clarify, i meant the single use plastic kind, not reusable.

I do the exact same thing you do. Gotta have the water for sure.

[Nature Man]

13. Short flight?

nah. I'd try to put others before myself and not make anyone more uncomfortable than economy already is, especially going from NOLA to Charlotte. That flight would be a nap.

[Initech]

28. I use my laptop on planes, so yeah I have interest if someone leans back.

One time I was on a plane coming back from Denver and a guy leaned back so hard that he nearly broke the screen on it. I definitely let him know that.

[chowder66]

31. Passengers shouldn't have to fix this. The airlines should by creating more space instead of less

to accommodate a reclining seat.

[WestLosAngelesGal]

35. I haven't flown since May, 2001

The lady across the aisle decided she was going to do her nails during the flight, with nail polish and nail polish remover, etc. A few of us complained about the smell and the relative safety issues. She put her things away when she was asked to by the flight attendant, but shot murderous looks at the complainers for the rest of the flight. I was pretty scared of her by the time we landed. So far, I have managed to not fly anywhere for almost 19 years. I like the train a lot better. I don't like being inches away from someone on a plane. It's too close!

[brooklynite]

42. What seems to be missing in this debate...

...is the person in back asking the person in front to kindly raise her seat a bit.

[MineralMan]

44. I tried that once.

It went poorly, so I never tried it again.

[Kurt V.]

51. What's a bit? Complete misdirection of wtf actually happened here. quite disgusted by this.

[ripcord]

45. I wonder if he would have behaved the same way if that had been a large biker rather than a woman?

Seems like he had had no problem acting like an asshole when he thought he was safe.

[radius777]

65. Agree, he's a loser.

He could've simply asked her nicely, she likely would've explained her back issue, at that point he should've just allowed her to recline.

[brokephibroke]

52. I am a frequent flyer

I am 6’4”. Out of respect for other passengers I never recline. When the passenger in front of me reclines, I accept the person is rude and lacks empathetic but accept if. Of course I try to make sure I get in the aisle first and not be so empathetic getting my bad down.

It’s all part of flying these days. Best to fly when biz people do rather than tourists...

[NutmegYankee]

62. As a larger man allow me to offer my perspective:

A reclined seat is often the difference between being able to use the tray for my drink or not being able to put the down for use. I say this despite the ugliness that many people feel about overweight or obese people, a bigotry that is still acceptable and may drive me to surgery to avoid.