The Russia investigation was a "hoax"?

[kentuck]

Every Trump supporter I have seen or heard believes it was a "hoax". They laugh if you bring it up.

I cannot understand how they are able to overlook so many incidents of collusion and conspiracy?

Why were there so many secret meetings of Trump campaign officials with Russian government officials and why did they lie about it? General Flynn even lied to the FBI about it. He is facing possible jail time.

Why did Donald Trump tell the American people that he had no business interests with Russia as he was negotiating to build a Trump Tower in Moscow? Why did he refuse to show his tax returns or where he had his business interests? Should not every American be curious about that?

Why did Donald Trump go to such extremes to stop the Mueller investigation? Even going so far as to try and fire the Special Counsel. And demanding that his subordinates do the dirty work for him and lie about it? How could any rational person overlook such incriminating acts?

Why did Donald Trump pass Top Secret info about about an Israeli agent to Russian officials behind closed doors at the White House? Why did the American people have to find out about it from Russian sources? Why did Donald Trump insist on secret meetings with Putin with no notes or records?

Why did Donald Trump withdraw American troops from Syria and leave the Kurd allies exposed to Turkisk aggression, with no American support? And leave Syria completely in the hands of the Russians? After he bad-mouthed our NATO allies and has never had an unkind word for Vladimir Putin? All the while, saying that no one has been tougher on Russia than Donald Trump?

When he found out the name of the Defense official that authorized the sale of arms to Ukraine, to defend themselves from Russian aggression, he fired him. No one benefited but Russia.

And they laugh and parrot the charges of Donald Trump that it was all a "hoax". It is totally irrational.

After Bill Barr covered up the Mueller investigation, Trump supporters were convinced it was a "hoax", just as Trump said.

Yet, the facts and the evidence say otherwise.

[Botany]

1. some hoax/ TRUMP'S RUSSIA COVER-UP BY THE NUMBERS - 272 CONTACTS WITH RUSSIA-LINKED OPERATIVES

https://themoscowproject.org/explainers/trumps-russia-cover-up-by-the-numbers-70-contacts-with-russia-linked-operatives/

We have yet to see the Mueller report.

[kentuck]

15. Blind men standing around an elephant...

Trying to figure out what it is?

[Botany]

16. Wide open and seeing the elephant

https://www.greenbaypressgazette.com/story/news/2017/01/23/russians-suspected-hacking-local-dems/96965824/

[mr_lebowski]

2. THAT'S ALL DEEP STATE FAKE NOOZ!!! (nt)

[kentuck]

3. Right! It didn't happen.

It is all fake. What more do we need to know?

[mr_lebowski]

4. Now you're catching on! (nt)

[kentuck]

5. But we should not run from the facts or the truth...

No matter how much they are ridiculed. That is a dangerous strategy, in my opinion.

[eniwetok]

6. Trump's Post Truth Universe Of Alternative "Facts"

They can deny it in the same way mindless MAGAts actually believe EVERYONE ELSE is a liar or corrupt EXCEPT the guy who's cheated on three wives, stole from his own charity, ripped off students with a fake university, screwed contractors, is desperate to hide his taxes after claiming he want to make them public, paid off women to hide his infidelities, etc... and had a record of 16000 lies.

[kentuck]

7. If Trump was Pinnochio, his nose would stretch across the Brooklyn Bridge.

Lies are as damaging to our country as an epidemic.

[mr_lebowski]

9. It's f***ing SURREAL, it really is ...

[Caliman73]

8. They rarely see the facts kentuck

Most hardcore Trump supporters get their "news" from Fox or from other right wing outlets. I have been saying for some time, especially when Nixon-Trump comparisons come up, that the major difference is that when Nixon called the Watergate investigations a "witch hunt" his supporters and the rest of the country was getting their news from sources that all basically had the same information, perhaps written a bit differently or focused on one aspect more than others, but the news was all saying, "Men broke into the Watergate building to try to get information on the Democratic candidate and Nixon knew about it and tried to cover it up".

That is not the case any longer. Most of the media is still saying that Trump had contacts with Russians and Ukrainians and pointing to his pretty well established guilt. However, there is a whole media echo chamber saying that everything happening is being orchestrated to bring Trump down, that none of it is real, and if any of it is real then it is okay because Trump can do what he wants.

This is what his followers get day in and day out. They think that 90% or more of the media is corrupt and that THEY are the only ones in the know. It is like brain washing in any cult. You are 100% correct- it is completely irrational. Trump supporters have had their critical thinking (if they ever had it) taken away. They are operating on emotion (fear and anger) constantly and thus, it is very difficult to reason with them.

[kentuck]

10. You are correct, of course.

But, the Democrats gave up a lot when they surrendered to the "hoax" charge, in my opinion.

[Caliman73]

13. That is one of my biggest frustrations with my party.

We often give up on the framing struggle. We allow Republicans to frame the conversation and take away or add the words that people use.

Anyone with half a brain knows that none of this was a hoax.

[bdamomma]

11. Facts and truth

mean nothing to them, but they won't be laughing when their liberties are taken away, stupid asses.

[kentuck]

12. But we can't let them mean nothing to us.

In my opinion, that would be a surrender.

[bdamomma]

14. We are too aware

of facts and truth and they are lost in a sea of lies and deception which will be their downfall.

[FiveGoodMen]

17. Once the other side owns the media, actual facts have little impact

[The Wizard]

18. Deprogramming cultists is best

left to professionals. Our focus should be on getting large numbers to vote for reason and civility.
Once a Democrat secures power all of Trumps edicts should be imposed on the cult, including putting them in FEMA reeducation camps.

[DallasNE]

19. We Have Had Non-Stop Trump On The Airwaves

For the last 4 years, solid. His messaging is about 10 times what all others are messaging combined, at least on the airwaves and social media. No wonder we are where we are. The media has been in the hip pocket of Trump for all 4 years.

[Aussie105]

20. Emotive thinkers versus rational thinkers.

Dear leader says 'hoax' and you accept it, because it feels good on an emotional level. You are in tune with the Universe, Trump smiles on you and approves, so hoax it is.

Some people might question and examine the logic and rationale behind the hoax label, and find it's an outright lie.

But if you are an emotional thinker, you need to stay away from the rational thinkers, because they mean you harm and disrespect Dear Leader, who is infallible. He said so, after all.

Never argue with an emotional thinker. He/she is immune to any appeal to logic and rational thought. And he/she may react in anger and do some violence. Emotions after all are his/her strong point, self control and rational thinking are not.

Learnt the latter from my visiting American sister in law. Asked why she decided she could not vote for Hillary, and only emotive statements came forth. Judgmental, negative emotions, with no logic to support them. The emotions were facts in their own right, no support needed.

Emotions are strong things, and remembered long after the chain of thinking that led to them has long faded.
Ask people if O.J. Simpson was guilty or not, and they will answer you instantly.
Ask them for details of the case, and they won't remember much. Ask them how they arrived at their guilty/not guilty conclusion, and they will be unable to answer.

[Scarsdale]

21. It is a hoax on the

American people. Truth always takes a back seat in the tRump family, and administration. We have been snookered by Putin and tRump with lots of help from the gop politicians taking Russian cash. So, YES, there is an ongoing "hoax" not against tRump but against hard working US citizens.

[blakstoneranger]

22. THEY KNOW IT'S NOT A HOAX---THEY DON'T CARE!!

And here's why: The republican party is attempting to create, with the media's help, an autocratic state! Rump is the temporary supreme leader (in case this experiment fails, rump will historically be the blame for it all). If the transition is successful, another, smarter, more powerful leader will be appointed as supreme leader. This process will take time, but watch very closely to the behaviors of your friends and neighbors--they know, and they accept it (for now). They see themselves benefiting from the change, heck, they've been clamoring for it for decades. The current system as it stands no longer works for the people who support rump. The phrase "the south will rise again" is about to come to pass. Since rump and his supporters are not in the majority on this new "way" of life, there will be staunch resistance from all walks of american life; which means, we may have to endure another civil war to complete this transition. Until then, they'll laugh, joke, and lie, claim the rumper is owning the dems, exploit the media to their advantage (all media not just foxnews and rumplimpbaugh), and happily attend rump's hitler rallies to show support and loyalty.

[Proud Liberal Dem]

23. The Mueller Report says otherwise

Even Barr's horribly awful summary of it doesn't conclude as such. My take on it seems like Mueller's investigation was looking for a precise, blatant operational relationship between Russia and the Trump campaign, which it could not ultimately prove (possibly because of all of the lying, obstruction, obfuscation by Trump and his underlings), however to unequivocally state that "nothing happened", "It was a hoax", or that Trump, et. al were "exonerated" by Mueller's findings is absolutely ludicrous.

[Flaleftist]

24. Because Fox News and Trump said so.

It's like climate change. Why bother to look any evidence? Trump and right-wing media personalities say it's a hoax. That's good enough for them.