Please Stop Treating Me Like I'm Disposable When You Talk About The Coronavirus

[babylonsister]

https://www.huffpost.com/entry/disabled-immunocompromised-people-coronavirus_n_5e6a6acfc5b6dda30fc51c2f?fbclid=IwAR2EWjJ7XZqQ1CQqvis-gFDydSvkiJgy2WFAPf4K4VkUgWHarktfZAVNiGo

03/13/2020 08:30 am ET
Please Stop Treating Me Like I’m Disposable When You Talk About The Coronavirus
“If you care about people, then care about vulnerable people as well.”
Zipporah Arielle
Guest Writer

“It’s fine, you don’t need to worry. It’s not a big deal. Only certain vulnerable populations, like the elderly and those with certain preexisting conditions, will be affected.”

I read this message or some variation of it over and over again in the early weeks of the COVID-19 outbreak. It came from many people and many places. It was on Twitter, on TV, in newspaper articles. None of the people who gave this message seemed to consider the possibility that they might be delivering it to someone who could fall into one of those categories of vulnerable populations — nor did they seem to notice that it painted those populations as being disposable.

snip//

This is one of those situations where our actions become about more than just ourselves. Your decision to go to a club despite feeling unwell, your neglect to wash your hands after touching the banisters in public stairwells, your dismissing the outbreak as something you don’t have to pay attention to because it won’t affect you — there is a very real likelihood that those sorts of behaviors will have a very real impact on those like me, who do have compromised immune systems.

The best thing you could do to keep others safe is take precautions. Learn about social distancing. Avoid going out into crowded places, wash your hands frequently and stay home if you feel sick. Fight for paid sick leave. I’m asking for your help in keeping me and others like me safe.

Show immunocompromised people that you know that we matter, and take small steps to show us we’re not alone in facing this daunting virus.

If you care about people, then care about vulnerable people as well. Take care of others by taking care of yourself — not just now, but after COVID-19 has slowed its spread, too. How we talk and what we do now matters. We’re here, and we are not disposable.

[jimfields33]

1. Italy is having to pick and choose. Not fair but that's reality.

Just so many patients. It’s overwhelming.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

5. If trump was not such a vain vengeful greedy asshole

We could have avoided rationing care..but nooo, he's an epic coward and selfish

[I_UndergroundPanther]

6. Why should I be unchosen?

What if you were unchosen?
What would you think than?

[jimfields33]

8. I'm not saying you shouldn't be.

I’m just saying what is going on. Perhaps a mass protest will wake them up. Yes I know dangerous but what other option does one have when their country says good luck.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

39. I'm 71 years old, so I can be categorized as "elderly".

I happen to be the healthiest person I know of almost any age, but if a triage needed to be set up and it was a choice between me and someone years younger, I'd say, go for the young person. I won't be here forever, and even though there's lots of things I would still love to do, I know that in my most optimistic scenarios, I won't get to live long enough (or have enough money) to do all the things I want to do. Then there's all the books I want to read.

No matter what, my life will end with lots of things undone, whether its tomorrow or when I'm 105.

But back to what I think is your real underlying question. A lot of people here would agree that this random 71 year old can be abandoned at the side of the road. You're really asking about all the (far too) many much younger people with the kind of health issues that make their risk from this very high.

A surprising number of them show up on my FB page. I get very frustrated because if I even vaguely suggested that the risk from this is different for different people, I get accused of being a calloused person (they'd use worse words but they really are too polite for that) who either doesn't get it or doesn't care. I do get it. It's possible I don't care as much as I should.

But, to take a very darwinian perspective, it's possible that too many people are alive with health conditions that would have killed them off years ago, and maybe, well I shouldn't even go there. This does include some people I am very fond of.

I do recall reading something along these lines about 4 decades ago. If we can keep people alive, and then they reproduce, well then what?

While we're on this topic, here's an amazing graph I came across the other day.

https://ourworldindata.org/spanish-flu-largest-influenza-pandemic-in-history

What's cool is you can customize it and look at one country at a time, or a totally different mix of countries than the ones that show up. Two things are incredibly obvious. One is that the 1918 flu epidemic made a huge difference for a year or two in expected life spans. Because so many young adults died. The other is that the life span recovered in about two years, because those conditions were so unique.

I've also been trying to find population growth charts that show at least a flattening of the world's population because of that epidemic. I can't seem to find one. It looks as if, as terrible as that disease was, it made almost no difference in overall population growth. Which is scary, because humans reproduce like rabbits, and almost nothing slows us down.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

47. I chose to not have kids at 7 years old.

Even back than I was aware of the damage being done to the world by so many people,and the idea of bringing another person or more into a world like this seemed crazy to me . It would be cruel to force them to be here. I knew I couldn't handle the responsibility of kids . So here I am at 54 not regretting that decision at all.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

49. A lot of people I know who don't have kids made

that decision at (what to me) is an astonishingly young age. However, I'm one who always wanted kids and I can't imagine not having felt that way, just as you probably can't imagine why anyone would want kids.

The best, and I think most important thing, is that you don't regret that decision. Can't imagine which would be worse:
1. Never wanting kids, getting pregnant (or spouse/girlfriend/one night stand gets pregnant) and you're a reluctant parent.
2. Always wanted kids, but somehow it never happened.
3. Always thought you wanted kids, had some, came to regret it.
4. Always thought you never wanted kids, didn't have any, and now regret that.

Lucky me, I wanted kids, had a couple, am very happy I did. I would NEVER try to persuade someone to have them who doesn't really want them. If that person were a close friend, I might have in depth conversations trying to work on the decision, but having kids changes your life. Not having them doesn't exactly change things, but it means your life is very different than if you had them.

[erronis]

67. Thanks for echoing my sentiments. In 70s, healthy, have lived a reasonable life. It's OK to die.

We're going to die in any case, in all cases.

Some may battle it to try to live way beyond 100 years - perhaps cryogenics or travel to far-off worlds.

Most will battle it because the Medical-Industrial-Government Complex (MIGC) wants to get all of your $$$s before you go.

I have nothing to leave other than Advanced Directives and lots of debt.

I'll try to clean up my papers and other shite before leaving but I've been saying that for years.

[chowder66]

12. Considering how family oriented they are I imagine making these decisions will haunt them deeply.nt

[AlexSFCA]

17. we won't have that luxury, those who are uninsured

or underinsured will be death candidates

[lunasun]

30. I've read many opinions where some say the chosing based on who would live longer and healthier

as done in Europe will just not fly in the US if it happens
That it will be class based with wealthier areas wealthier people getting access once the first come first served method fills up the beds initially
but you are right some will not even be served well if they never can afford from the beginning of this spread to seek treatment . They said the testing is free but if you can’t afford respiratory care do you even want to know ?

Our mayor Lightfoot in Chicago called for all to seek help if sick but I don’t know what the city has set up I haven’t looked into the specifics


This is not a time to take chances,”Mayor Lightfoot said. “If you do not feel well, for God’s sake, stay home. All individuals, regardless of socio-economic or immigration status, should seek treatment without fear.”

[AlexSFCA]

31. This pandemic will be a real test of our healthcare system

In this instance, those who can’t afford treatment will impact the wealthy due to continued spread, keeping pandemic alive and market low.

[IronLionZion]

23. America chooses by ability to pay at multiple levels

because even for the insured, insurance companies can pick and choose what they want to pay for.

Most everyone in America has seen an elderly homeless person coughing on the street during normal conditions. That's likely more ominous now as those folks are very vulnerable. I've donated to shelters and food banks, but then what about testing and treatment? It can still spread among this population.

[totodeinhere]

34. Yes, homeless people will be very vulnerable.

Many of them are in bad health already. And now they may find themselves in a packed shelter with no chance for social distancing. I suspect that a virus like this could run rampant in homeless shelters. Local governments really must come up with some type of plan to deal with this emergency. We just can't leave homeless people there in shelters to suffer an agonizing death.

[pnwmom]

41. That's not the point. It's all the statements from the government and others

that it's "reassuring" that the virus is only seriously affecting old people and people with health conditions.

[kozar]

76. and Italy's population,,

are in quarantine, and singing together from their balconies. no disrespect to OP or you. In fact,,agreeing with you. But why can't USA do this kind of stuff anymore? We dont even know our next door neighbor in good times.. Italians are in quarantine and singing. As Americans, we want to believe we are the best,, myself included. When I see these kinds of actions,, I tend to wonder,,what can we learn, still? Italians are acting to what is given to them,by singing,, finding joy.

Koz

[AnotherMother4Peace]

2. Yes - well said. I've been feeling quite disposable lately because I'm over 60. nt

[milestogo]

19. Yes. Me too.

[hamsterjill]

25. Me, three.

I’m not ready to be written off yet. Mostly, because I don’t deserve it - not that anyone does, of course.

But I knew Trump was going to be a fool as President and I warned all the stupid Republicans around me. They didn’t think I knew what I was talking about. My best revenge is going to be to live to see their asshole removed from the White House.

I certainly was not alone in my assessment of Trump. So the masses of us who had him figured out from the get go need to stay healthy.

[Tumbulu]

28. Me Four

It’s really scary to me.

[Raine]

60. Same

it's like "oh well, it's just old sick people, no loss".

[redstatebluegirl]

81. Me too.

[I_UndergroundPanther]

3. It's that lie certain people

Tell themselves the "elitism".
They think well,at least I'm not like "those" people..

They proclaim the future belongs to people like them,with that language.

And it pisses me off. I am diabetic and from the way they talk about vulnerable people ,they want me to keel over if it saves thier snotty asses.

[smirkymonkey]

4. K&R

It's true and it's very sad. These kinds of things can bring out the best in people or they can bring out the worst. So far, I have seen too much of the worst.

[Girard442]

7. Talking about vulnerable populations is "othering" them.

It's a step on the road to Lebensunwertes Leben, "life unworthy of life."

[pnwmom]

75. Exactly. n/t

[Hermit-The-Prog]

9. I want to hug my son, but he's a teacher in a red county run by idiots. ...

He's worried that he might transport the virus to his mother and me.

[UpInArms]

48. Virtual hugs

Dear hermit

((((((((Hug)))))))

[Hermit-The-Prog]

57. Thank you!

[Demovictory9]

10. k&r

[rickyhall]

11. My hope is that this virus kills every last one of those goddamned repug leaders.

[pnwmom]

42. Democrats and health officials have said this too. That it's reassuring that young people

are often unaffected; that it only seems to hit the old and unhealthy.

[kcr]

50. They even showed up in this thread

Disgusting.

[SammyWinstonJack]

77. Well if anyone deserves that, it would be them.

[FirstLight]

13. I'm immuno-compromised

LOcked it down after my last necessary appt yesterday.

Got enough stuff for a while

I dont want to be a carrier, but I also dont want to get sick

got a friend who is mocking me, but she can fuck right off, Im not even going over to her place to watch movies or play boardgames...ESPECIALLY when she just traveled from the South Bay area and she has no desire or plans for isolating herself...

[ananda]

14. I would feel awful if I accidentally passed the virus..

.. to a vulnerable person.

That's why I've decided to isolate for awhile.

I hope we all weather this crisis and survive it
in one piece.

Take care, everyone.

[Ms. Toad]

15. Here's a similar article I posted on FB today

When news of COVID-19 started to spread, there were two popular responses. The first was to rush to the store, buying N95 masks and hand sanitizer until shelves were bare. The second was to shrug and comfort the masses because mostly immunocompromised people—people like me—would die.

On Twitter, I have watched both parties with frustration. The first group—the one cleaning store shelves of masks—has left none for immunocompromised people and healthcare workers who need them. The surgeon general begged the public to stop buying masks, explaining that they are not effective at preventing the spread of COVID-19 in the general public.

Despite my frustrations with the first group, it was the second that really infuriated me. I have watched tweet after tweet—some of them authored by journalists with large followings—assuring the general population that only the most vulnerable, including immunocompromised people and the elderly, will die.

https://www.fastcompany.com/90476259/when-you-say-coronavirus-will-only-kill-the-vulnerable-youre-talking-about-me?fbclid=IwAR0n6X7ISKrB7jJEC_RzI64SwA2GgBRBjT8cmlFtNOjyVqhtfceUrRaxMWI


The article was triggered, in part, by this tweet:

Link to tweet

[pnwmom]

43. Yeah, that's a really good article. I posted it on FB.

As you know, I have a daughter with health issues and I get infuriated by people who say it's reassuring that healthy people don't have to worry.

So smug and entitled. And I've run into some of them here.

[SWBTATTReg]

61. And the scary thing about the article (Richard Engel comments) that was wrong about only

2% would be negatively impacted by the CV. From what I read (from an live observer of the CV ravages in either China or Italy (I can't recall)) from a DU article posted 3/13/2020 am) was that all age groups were impacted negatively (deaths too) by the CV. ALL.

So all should be on alert, and be safe and cautious.

[tclambert]

16. Everybody running for President is over 70.

[wnylib]

80. True. And that means that

the loss of older people is also a loss of leadership, knowledge, and experience. Losing younger, health-compromised people means losing what they could become and contribute for years into the future.

But, from what I have read here and heard people say, indifference triumphs. The indifference toward seniors and/or health-compromised people would be more understandable if this was a life or death situation for younger, healthy people. Then they would be following a basic self-preserving survival instinct. And most seniors would put the young ahead of themselves if this was a life-threatening illness for everyone because that is the natural order of things, for the old to protect the young.

But it is not life-threatening to the people who are indifferent. Precautions that would help to protect the vulnerable would not jeopardize the lives of those who are not vulnerable. It would inconvenience them, but not threaten them.

Why do some people oppose Trump so strongly, but share his attitude toward vulnerable people? What kind of society do they want to replace his with?

[NellieStarbuck]

18. Gee, I thought this was the every-life-is-sacred crowd --

--as long as it's a fetus. Living, breathing humans, not so much. Are these the "death panels" that the wingnuts were warning us about when President Obama was trying to get the ACA passed? I hear you, babylonsister. I'm one of the expendables, as well.

[BigmanPigman]

20. Bill Maher said something like...

"Old people get sick and die, big deal" which surprised me since the week before he has a doctor on and was responsible and realistic. Also, he is Mr. Anti-agism. That really pissed me off but no one seemed to notice it as offensive. I guess it's just me.

[appalachiablue]

22. Maher is over 60 and fighting it hard you can tell. Pfft!

[crickets]

35. Then maybe he should step back from the Brylcreem. nt

[appalachiablue]

85. Yes Bill and Gavin Newsom, both need to lose the awful hair

and suits, gah! Whole new look.

[appalachiablue]

21. This country doesn't value older people like other nations. It's a

disgrace and a big flaw but the way it is. It's savage 'survival of the fittest' Ayn Rand style here in the last 25+ years.

[misanthrope]

46. Younger people make better consumers

They are more susceptible to pop culture trends. Life experiences make you warier of advertising and marketing efforts.

That's the heart of the reason our modern culture is built around youth worship. It fuels capitalism.

[appalachiablue]

66. All true, esp. the hyper cap. and young buyers

[rainin]

24. It stung me, too, over and over. I read one post where the person reassured everyone that

her age group should be fine. Never mind I may bury at least 2 members of my immediate family, maybe 3. No matter

Good post, babylonsister. Be well and stay safe

[NPS-Retired]

26. I feel very disposable right now

I am a 57 year old diabetic and had a hart attack 3 weeks ago!
I am lucky to be alive but for how long.
This is crazy

[First Speaker]

36. Welcome to DU!...and hang in there...

...try to take care of yourself, do the usual things to stay safe. And never be afraid to come here and rant if you feel the need. We're a good audience...

[lostnfound]

62. Welcome! May you be on road to good health.

Definitely NOT disposable.

[deurbano]

27. On Twitter there were reports of younger people calling it "Boomer Remover."

Nice.

[DonCoquixote]

37. these are the same fucks

who will illustrate that young people do get it, after all, there is a reason the NBA IS shut down

[PatrickforO]

65. Well, Fox News and hate-talk radio have sure fostered this

type of thinking.

And, sadly, judging by the hoarders and increasing public panic - people driving like maniacs, taking stuff they want out of other peoples' carts, buying MORE of everything than they will ever need, we are still disgusting barbaric sociopaths as a species.

[nocoincidences]

29. I am old, but it has not made me incapable.

I can take care of myself, and more importantly, I have the instinct to take care of those who are older/more in need than I am.

That is the wisdom that comes with age.

[BarbD]

32. This disposable is determined to survive to vote in November.

[pazzyanne]

73. Standing with you on that decision.

I may be old, but I want to live long enough to see tRump out of office.

[Aussie105]

33. Us and them.

Watch what happens if a movie star, rich person or politician gets it!

Responses:

1. Total surprise in realizing some people aren't exempt from the virus. The virus doesn't care how rich or important you are. Equal opportunity invader.

2. Major concern, immediate testing, isolation, maximum medical assistance.

3. Mass media coverage.

But for the rest of us:

1. Go away, your own fault. Want to be tested? Sorry, no can do!

2. Old, immuno-deficient? Bad luck, don't fuss, go home,die quietly. There's a good chap/chapette!

3. Media coverage - crickets.
Social media posts - bad luck, my age group is fine.

Just remember in November who created this situation.

Meanwhile, in Australia: One of our self important politicians visited the White House, came home, took ill, tested positive.
Where did he catch it?
If the White House, is the place peppered with carriers?
If before, did he leave a few free samples of the virus behind?

[The Conductor]

38. Also, it's inaccurate...

Just because a particular disease shows a preference for a particular population, that does not make those unfeeling dinkwads immune. The Chinese doctor who first identified this as a new disease and repeatedly tried to warn authorities of the danger died of COVID-19. He was 34, and in excellent health - and a freaking doctor!

[crickets]

40. Thanks for posting this.

The virus doesn't really care who you are, but you can tell a lot about the people around you by the way they talk about it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

44. Can I also point out that not every immuno-compromised

person is going to get this and die? Yes, such people are clearly at greater risk, but this is not the Black Death. Really, it's not.

I mean, if you are that severely immuno-compromised, how the hell did you make it this far? And do NOT take that as being calloused but simply as asking the question. Do you ALWAYS go out wearing an N-95 mask? Do you always stay six feet away from everyone? What other measures do you take during, say flu season. And yes, I understand that normal influenza is less deadly than this, but it's still an issue.

[pnwmom]

52. Normal flu season is 20 times LESS deadly than this. The WHO's latest figures

Last edited Sat Mar 14, 2020, 03:05 AM - Edit history (1)

say it might be 34 times less deadly.

Why are people minimizing the threat?

[kcr]

54. If you understand the normal flue is less deadly

Then I would hope you would also understand there is a vaccine for it. You've probably also heard of Tamiflu. There are no treatments or vaccines for Covid-19.

[Meowmee]

58. Danni Askini who said on twitter she had both covid and influenza, who was refused testing 3 times

Said when she tested positive at an er visit she was given two anti viral drugs, ribavarin and kaletra and she felt a lot better after two days. I think someone here posted her tweet. She is a healthcare worker and a cancer survivor. So this is treatable in many if caught early before the more serious effects of pneumonia may start.

[CountAllVotes]

82. Multiple sclerosis patients

Many persons with MS use drugs that suppress, alter and even kill the immune system.

These drugs are pushed heavily by doctors. Some cost close to $200,000.00 a year. A stem cell transplant is a new treatment costing at least $150,000.00.

What did persons with MS do to develop this condition you ask?

They did nothing. The cause remains unknown but doctors will experiment on you with various costly drugs if you care to do this and have the resources to pay for them.

This is the reality for many that have compromised immune systems.

You are instructed to be extra cautious and to stay away from people that could be sick. One infection can and will kill you, and for this reason I for one must keep extra supplies of necessary antibiotics on hand at ALL TIMES, something I have been doing for the past few years.

As I age, more progression and infections is the situation for myself and others with immune systems that are challenged.

Why don't we all just go away and die already seems to be the message that too many of us receive.

Welcome to my IGNORE list, for it is people like you that the lives of those that struggle more than you could ever imagine, a living hell!

[Sunriser13]

84. Deep breath, darlin'

Stay centered for yourself and all who depend on you to remain sane.



Most people do not realize the lengths we go to every single day to deal with a compromised immune system, and those who think they do (even those dealing with one themselves) sometimes fail to recognize what seems easy to compensate for him/her might not be my reality.

Breathe! Something I hope all of us will remain doing for quite some time to come ...

[Midnight Writer]

45. In a societal sense, I reckon I would not be such a loss. I'm retired. I no longer produce.

At this point, I have no dependents.

I do pass on the money from my retirement checks, by spending it mostly in my community.

And I try to be a good neighbor, pay my taxes, tip the waiter, etc.



But how can I be surprised a disease hits old people hardest? It's a Law of Nature. And if someone has to die, even though I am very happy, I would just as soon it be me then some young Mom and Dad with real responsibilities.

If i die, I leave an empty house. If they die, it could leave a lot of long term tragedy.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

56. Yes, how can any of us be surprised if a disease hits old people hardest?

And those with health issues perhaps equally as hard?

Whenever I point that out people act as if I'm wanting them to die. I don't. But I'm realistic. The simple truth is that we all have different risk factors. Pretending that's not the case is foolish. Being offended when that's pointed out is worse than foolish.

I guess I need to start a thread where I point out that everyone who's assuming they and most of those around them are going to die had better get their will made.

If you've ever handled the estate of someone you'll understand how important a will is.

I have one. Recently updated.

[pnwmom]

59. You're missing the point. It's not a question of being surprised.

It is the claim that the Trump administration has been making, echoed by some here, that it is "reassuring" that the million or more who will die will be older or unhealthy.

As you say, the elderly and people with serious health conditions are always at more risk for infection. They are human beings, too, and they -- and their parents -- will find nothing reassuring about the idea that most of the burden will fall on them. Imagine if you were a parent of a child with diabetes, or asthma, or cystic fibrosis, and self-centered healthy people were saying that it is reassuring that only the unhealthy are likely to die. Would you be reassured?

[Turin_C3PO]

68. I have cystic fibrosis

with 50% lung function and it’s infuriating to hear people talk that way.

[pnwmom]

70. Yes, it is. I am so sorry you now have this extra burden in your life.

Cystic fibrosis is enough of a challenge for anyone.

[Turin_C3PO]

74. Thank you for the kind words.

I’m scared but trying to distract myself with Netflix and reading.

[kcr]

51. I'm tired of hearing it, too. Hearty rec from me.

They couldn't even keep it out of this thread. Shameful.

[RandySF]

53. I've been calling my dad every other day.

[BComplex]

55. THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU Babylonsister!!!

I have been feeling the very same thing.

[PatrickforO]

63. Yeah, Trump's disgusting utterances definitely don't make ME feel any better

My wife and I are both vulnerable, in our 60s with underlying health conditions.

[marble falls]

64. At the same time: as one of those vulnerable populations, I welcome making those ...

who honestly and factually have a significant resistance to Coronavirus to put the fire in their hair out and not needlessly use up the currently scarce resources we vulnerables need.

[totodeinhere]

69. Of course nobody is disposable. But...

I don't think there is anything wrong with discussing the demographics of this disease. When we know who is more disposed to get it then we will know who to concentrate our efforts on. And that is a good thing. Since we know that older people are more vulnerable we can do things like making sure that nursing homes and long term care facilities are ready for this. Those facilities must be isolated so that the residents can be less likely to be exposed to this. And seniors living at home will need support too.

[pnwmom]

71. But that isn't the issue. The point is that some in the government and even here on DU

have said that people should be "reassured" by the knowledge that it is unhealthy people and those over 60 who are most at risk.

That is why some people have felt disposable. No one should be "reassured" that the people most at risk are already dealing with health challenges in their lives.

[McCamy Taylor]

72. Yeah! Betty White could be affected!

[CountAllVotes]

79. Is that your hope?

If so, I hope you find a life and gain a sense of respect for others.

Shame on you.

What did Betty White ever do that offends you so much?

[CountAllVotes]

78. Your post makes me very sad

It sickens me to think that there are some around here that seem to dislike the elderly and those with illnesses.

No one chooses to become ill.

No one wants to become old these days.

Aging gracefully is difficult during times like this. There was a time when the old were the most valued persons in a civilization. This doesn't seem to be the cases these days.

Thanks for your post babylonsister and please take care best you can and know you are not alone.

& recommend.

[warmfeet]

83. Good advice.

No one is disposable.