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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhat is the best way to draw up a will right now?
A friend of mine said to do an online will but WHO would be around to notarize it?
I thought back and I remembered something.
My grandmother died in 1975. She did not own a car nor know how to drive so she was a shut-in after my grandfather died in 1958. There was no telephone in the house to use until after her death. She relied on my late uncle that she lived with for many things needless to say.
She wanted to draw up a will and had no way to find an attorney, etc. to write one up for her so she wrote her own will up in her own cursive handwriting which I have to this very day in my drawer in the other room.
My grandmother was an orphan at the age of 10 as both of her parents died back to back around 1905 or so. She was unable to attend school after that so she was not well-schooled and was bi-lingual and she primarily spoke German most of her life (both of her parents were German immigrants that came to the USA in the 1880s). The will is brief yet concise I must add, despite her limitations.
After she died, my uncle did everything he could to ignore her will which worked for awhile. However, at some point her will ended up in court and it was upheld and deemed to be a legal instrument by the judge in the county she was born and lived in her entire life. I know little about the details of why or how it ended up in a court of law and deemed to be legal.
A handwritten will (aka a holographic will) is still valid today under California law.
I am wondering, does anyone have an idea how to draw up a will other than this way which did stand and pass the test of law? Is an online will even an option right now if I cannot go outside?
I have no will as it now stands and all would pass to my husband by California law. However if we were both to die, well, my brother (he hates cats and loves dump) would be able to grab all of what we have as the sole living next-of-kin heir and his daughter (a niece I have seen once in my entire life that is in her 30's) would be next in line. I rarely hear from him or her so these are poor relationships at best. My husband is the youngest of 10, having one sister left that lives in Ireland that is 80 years old and is disinterested in our situation.
The first thing my brother would do is collect up my cats and get rid of them. I've known this since my mother died. She had a dog and he knew I liked cats and he figured I did not like her dog that I was caring for while she was dying while in hospice care. He came to see my mother ONE time before she died to grab up what he could and advised me to "Wait till the old woman is dead before you dump the dog".
I was shocked by this statement. I kept that dog until the day he died of cancer some five years later. I was crushed emotionally as I loved my mother and father's dog as if he were them!
I tried to draw up a will after Mother died. I appointed the attorney to be the executor. After meeting with the attorney, I received an incomplete will and a note with it and a bill. The attorney advised me to find an executor.
I cannot find anyone that cares to get involved in this situation that I know of other than a puke "friend" I've known for many years that would love to do this for the money involved that an executor receives as part of the process. She is older than I am and frankly, I often wonder if her mind is right as she is extremely forgetful and pushing 70 years herself. That said, she does love animals and volunteers at the local animal shelter where she lives, but a faithful puke nonetheless.
So here I am today with no will wondering if my husband and I will live through this being we are both high risk. My husband is of sound mind but nearly blind and partially deaf due to his service in the Vietnam era war. He was unable to attend school past the 6th grade but he never told me this for many years after meeting him as his father was killed when he was a toddler leaving behind a woman pregnant with twins and eight children to care for. He had to quit school and work the farm. He has great difficulty writing and can no longer read much at all.
What are my options if any?
Any simple advice out there?
I'm sure I am not alone and that there are others here that may be in a similar situation which is no real living family members left much and no will for various reasons.
Thank you very much for any help at all. I appreciate it.
CountAllVotes
underpants
(182,925 posts)Legal zoom?
brokephibroke
(1,883 posts)So following.
Alacritous Crier
(3,819 posts)just thinking about this this morning.
gibraltar72
(7,513 posts)Celerity
(43,580 posts)coolsimo
(26 posts)Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)They typically have to be witnessed by two individuals over 18 and (generally) any gifts to the witnesses will be treated as if the witness died before the person who made the will. (There are generally exceptions for beneficiaries who would inherit anyway.
The rules are set by the state - so you will have to check your state law.
coolsimo
(26 posts)AlexSFCA
(6,139 posts)its urgent for millions of people now.
diva77
(7,663 posts)Patterson
(1,532 posts)meadowlander
(4,406 posts)Not a lawyer (at all) but this seems like the kind of service that would have come up before - for example where people live at sea.
I worked at OfficeMax years and years ago and we sold "write your own will" kits. Maybe they still have something like that?
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)Generally notaries have to witness the signature.
dem4decades
(11,306 posts)The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,879 posts)Maybe you could get the notary part done that way. States have different requirements for wills (e.g., witnesses, what can and can't be in them, whether you can disinherit people, etc.). What state do you live in?
haele
(12,682 posts)If your husband is a Veteran, they will help you both with not only with resources from the VA, but they will generally have all sorts of information on local resources for the elderly or disabled, both free and low cost,.
Haele
RoadRunner
(4,495 posts)Did it myself online. The instructions said it is still legal if its not notarized but getting it notarized is preferred. I printed the will, signed it, and left the notary part blank.
If I live through the shitshow Ill get it notarized.
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)Last edited Sat Mar 21, 2020, 09:53 PM - Edit history (1)
would not be valid, since generally two signatures are required and a notary is only one.
Most states requires two witnesses who are 18 or older - unless you hand-wrote it and you live in a state that recognizes holographic wills (approximately half of them - with specific restrictions in many, it will most likely need to be witnessed
A notary, alone, works in Colorado or N. Dakota (per the quick search I did), but otherwise you need the required number of witnesses (generally two).
I'm not aware of any state in which a notary is preferred.
(I am a lawyer, and teach students to analyze wills questions on the bar exam - so the generalities above are drawn from that body of knowledge. Each state has its own laws - check with an attorney)
Mariana
(14,861 posts)If a document needs witnesses, she calls a couple of the tellers in and they sign. It shouldn't be hard to scrounge up a couple of witnesses in any case.
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)My concern in this thread is that people in this thread seem to think that a notary magically makes the will effective. In most states, it will not, unless there is a second witness. So people who go to the bank and just ask to have it notarized will not have an effective will - so their estate will be distributed by the intestacy laws.
onethatcares
(16,192 posts)wth, you made all the decisions already, seal it and put it in a desk drawer. Make 5 copies, send to relatives, friends, beneficiaries , or whoever you think should get one, in an envelope that says: To be opened in the event of my death". Hell, use a wax seal and a thumbprint.
I am not a lawyer and I am not giving legal advice of any kind.
msongs
(67,459 posts)Hekate
(90,848 posts)But since he was a CPA, I am sure he had things notarized up the wazoo.
Pachamama
(16,887 posts)Im California you are advised required to sign documents regarding this at the hospital regardless of a will. Many people with their will including myself have a DNR (Do not resuscitate).
I was thinking about this last night and have a call into my estate attorney. Going on a ventilator falls into this domain. I havent decided yet what I want to do, although I am leaning towards leaving my DNR in place and knowing and accepting that this means that if I should get infected, that I will choose to not be on a ventilator or only for a limited time period and allow myself to die and give that ventilator to a younger and healthier person.
You may have a different desire and its important to think about this and consult an attorney and make appropriate instructions.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)I did that years ago after my father died.
I also pre-paid for our cremations.
I will leave it to the animal shelter that I got my 3 cats from. They can go back they and hopefully be placed in new homes if it comes down to it.
I would perhaps like to leave a portion to the Wildlife Conservation Fund as well.
onethatcares
(16,192 posts)am hoping they honor the contract if needed. I mean, who's gonna sue em? I'll be dead and who knows about lawyering at that point?
Lars39
(26,117 posts)you might find a notary at one of the utilities. Anywhere there might be a glass window between employee and customer. In my town I might be able to find them at the water dept. Sometimes hospitals have them, also.
Realtor offices, too.
rampartc
(5,439 posts)you can write one up this afternoon, in as much detail as possible (legal definition of real estate, acct numbers at banks etc) be sure to say "being of sound mind" and sign with 2 witnesses not heirs. no notary needed.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)High risk, both of us, that is the problem.
I wasn't planning for something like this, believe me!
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)I can't go outside.
Where will I find the two witnesses?
Lordy this sucks!
Hekate
(90,848 posts)...big envelope, then set all aside in someplace like the garage for a week or a month. Tell someone where your temporary storage place is.
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)The requriements vary by state - but you could accomplish the legalities through the door or an open window.
Ohio: The will shall be attested and subscribed {signed below} in the conscious presence of the testator {i.e the testator has to be aware the witnesses are there and acting as witnesses}, by two or more competent witnesses {generally 18 or older}, who saw the testator subscribe, or heard the testator acknowledge the testator's signature.
{my explanations added}
So (in Ohio) all that has to pass between you is the document - from you to them so they can sign it, and you have to be close enough for you to be aware of what they are doing - and for them to hear you acknowledge that the signature you previously made on the document is actually yours.
State law varies - so check with an attorney in your state (or - at a minimum - look up the law or information on your state bar association's website)
RealityChik
(382 posts)might be better to search for low cost legal advise first. Or if you live in a state that has unconventional or progressive laws about 'right-to-die', end of life directives and who is authorized to make those decisions, you may want to involve an attorney.
I, for one, do not want a hospital or nursing home to steal all my money and suck me dry because I didn't legally authorize certain directives and/or a person to manage those decisions, no matter how painful. I opted for an affordable attorney service and I have no regrets or worries about it.
bobbieinok
(12,858 posts)Chainfire
(17,656 posts)You could probably write the will out on a grocery bag, have two witness to your signature and be good to go. Anything is better than nothing. If your family are going to fight over your stuff, it doesn't matter who draws the will up.
Hoyt
(54,770 posts)mnhtnbb
(31,407 posts)without a will, then you need to decide where you would like them to go.
Favorite charity? An animal rescue group? A particular hospital? A museum? Your local library? A dance or theater company?
If you have assets that would be appreciated by any non-profit group, then you need to make a will. You could contact the Executive Director of whatever group that you want to make the beneficiary and let them know of your wishes. I do not believe there is any prohibition on naming a beneficiary of a will in California to be the executor. If there are sufficient assets in your estate that would be going to a non-profit group--in other words, it's worth it to them--then they would probably be able to name someone to be executor of your will. If there aren't sufficient assets, then that's a dilemma.
Getting it notarized shouldn't be difficult. Banks have notary publics, if you make your will on-line. If you decide to use an attorney, there will be a notary public in the attorney's office.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)Thank you so much for your insights and help.
The will would not be complex. If my brother is alive to step into it (or my niece who is of the same puke ilk) it could be a nightmare. I heard the thing to do is leave each of them something in the will to CYA so to speak.
If I had my way 100%, I would not leave either of them a fucking thing.
It is disgraceful the way they have treated me and my husband over the years so they can fuck right off already as they deserve nothing, nothing at all!
When I think of the way they acted after my father and mother died and their greed, it sickened me so much I was filled with hatred. That hatred has not really changed, it is just not as intense as it once was but I cannot forget! I was warned by each of them as I mentioned to stay the hell away from him. Sad situation but I have tried. I guess I'm just not a puke, that is the problem.
Demonaut
(8,931 posts)it's a grand, he just started using it and the notarizing issue still needs to be worked out
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)But yes, virtual meetings work well if you can find an attorney willing to work that way.
Demonaut
(8,931 posts)I've been working electronically for year, since when I was in practice my clients (or folks on the other side) were all over the world. My spouse (who does wills) just today figured out how to use Zoom and facetime. I think she's a ways away from using it in practice.
All of us are at risk. But so far I'm the only one isolated -I'm teaching out the semester from home, Ugh. I've interacted with 60-70 students so far (albeit less formally than a class.) My daughter is still reporting to work at Starbucks, and my spouse is still wandering into her office. And, of course, since there are two still out and about I'm not entirely isolated.
handmade34
(22,758 posts)took it to the bank and 2 clerks witnessed my signature... that was before the social distancing... if you can't go out... I would call your town clerk or some local official.... you might be able to get someone to your house... I'd come over and witness if you were nearby
dawg day
(7,947 posts)If you can, get two neighbors to witness (just takes a minute for them to see you sign it and then sign it).
Something to consider is that you want to make clear that if you die simultaneously or in a short span of time, you have the same contingency. That is, let's say my spouse and I die about the same time in a car crash. Ordinarily the spouse that dies last (even if only a minute later) inherits all and then everything of YOURs will also go to his next beneficiary, or if one isn't specified, prob the nearest relative.
You want to make clear that your will follows your own progression of beneficiaries if your husband doesn't survive long enough to inherit.
There's a way to write it so that in the event the spouse dies within 2 weeks or so after, your own will is in effect (he doesn't inherit).
Or you could both decide on the same second beneficiary, so that no matter what, if neither survives, the same person or charity gets everything.
For example, let's say I want to leave my belongings to the spouse, or if he doesn't live after I'm gone, to my nice young neighbor who always checks on me and shovels my walk during snowtime.
My will would leave everything to spouse, if he survives me for more than 2 weeks, and if not, everything to Nice Young Neighbor (NAME and ADDRESS).
Spouse's will says the same. So no matter what, the relatives I don't want to inherit won't inherit.
Nolo.com has some good downloadable will forms. Just make sure you print them out and sign them and leave them in a prominent place, and tell someone where that is, like on the coffee table.
I've put all the bank account info and will copy in a manila envelope and given it to my neighbor up the street, "just in case."
It's depressing, but sensible! We are, after all, all going to die, though not any time soon, I hope!
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)So the lack of a notary is generally of no consequene at all. (The lack of witnesses is a much bigger deal in most states.)
Second, most states have simultaneous death provisions.
The standard is 120 hours. If a beneficiary dies within 120 hours (the state specified period), the beneficiary is treated as if they died before the person whose will is being interpreted.
So if spouses die within a minute of each other, generally the estate goes to kids of the beneficiaries - or to whoever gets the residue - or, if that fails, by state statute for distribution without a will.
Your "if he survives me for X period" generally should avoid the consequences of simultaneous death (as long as it is longer than the state simultaneous death provision)
But - again - these laws are very state specific. Check with an attorney in your state.
csziggy
(34,138 posts)Make sure their addresses are on the page where they sign. If there is any question about the will, they may have to be located to resolve the issues.
My attorney told me about one will she's handling probate for. The witness signed one page, but not the actual page that indicated she had witnessed the deceased signature. Now the probate court has to get the witness in to testify that she did see the deceased sign or the will is declared invalid and everything will be in chaos!
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)Hekate
(90,848 posts)My husband can be very stubborn when he wants to be, and what we need is a trust. Now I fear it is too late for the rest of this year, if ever. I have, however, a separate savings account of my own and a checking acccount that might as well be a savings account -- and just before my surgery in February at my insistence we went to the bank together and I changed the POD on those accounts from him to my 2 adult kids. The "price" for this was to give him power of attorney if I'm sick.
Then he wanted to tell said kids and that's when I lost my temper. No, actually, they can find out when I drop dead -- or when they show signs of loving me at some time before then, or maybe not even then, because why? My son has cut us off for more than a year and my daughter is difficult. (And these are the people he fantasizes will take care of me if we write a trust giving them power over my affairs.) To her credit, via text and over the phone my daughter is showing a lot of signs of concern for our well-being these days, as she has fully prepped for this particular doomsday and she knows we haven't. But from my son -- silence.
So much unfinished business in this life...
Except for those two accounts, everything else is jointly held, which is fine except my kids that he raised and who he loves as much as I -- were not adopted by him, because their bio-dad has always been in their lives -- so I don't know what kind of legal limbo that puts them in if my husband survives me and still refuses to make a will.
In my personal accounts, I would rather make some separate provisions for daughter's 3 kids (son has none), but can't really on just a bank account, so 50/50 is the best I can do.
Then there's my books, some signed by deceased authors with a thriving fan base. They should NOT be dumped at a garage sale if no one in the family has room for them or cares for my taste. The local tri-counties Planned Parenthood has a notable annual book sale, and in the last few years has started selling off some of the best at Amazon during the year (I do wish I knew their alias so I could look for them ! ) I asked a friend who volunteers as a book-sorter, and she said the best way is to write a codicil to the will I don't have.
Not sure if I should just delete this -- but the OP has no doubt triggered anguish in a lot of people. Or rather, the pandemic has triggered the anguish, and the OP has opened the door to talk about it.
lettucebe
(2,337 posts)A will is nothing more than your last wishes. Every state is different but in California they recognize a will without a notary, so don't worry about that.
I used to work as a paralegal. I have done wills for my family and others. In a law office it's pretty much a fill-in-the-blanks sort of thing with sometimes something more specific needed. Here's a good example [link:?cb=1381546520|
You would need to change it to fit your situation. I'd be happy to help you if needed. Just send me a private message. It is not difficult at all. You can decide who gets your assets, and both of you need a separate will.
For your pets, I'd find someone you trust and simply ask them to take care of the animals, and add a paragraph that outlines that in the will. Any family members that don't like pets would be happy you already dealt with it.
Yes, without a will if either of you passes your estate is going to the survivor, but it's still easier with a will.
Edit to add: This is not the full will, as you don't end up with just initials (you'd sign at the end, full name). I found this on Google images, searching for "California will"
Ms. Toad
(34,111 posts)it requires two witnesses in most states.
(And - only about half of the states recognized handwritten, unwitnessed wills - and some impose specific requirements before such wills are recognized.)
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)I will message you if I find a need to do so.
I appreciate this more than you'll ever know, believe me.
Thank you again!
lettucebe
(2,337 posts)miyazaki
(2,253 posts)in California. It was qualified without issue in my case.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)If it worked for my grandmother in 1975 and in your case as well, I have no reason to think it would not work again.
I will go this route and distribute copies of it to people I hope I can trust.
That is the problem here -- trust.
Thank you for this reply.
CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)There are plenty of opinions I had not considered nor known about.
The place I paid for cremation is nearby and I checked with them not too long ago to make sure it was still good as I paid $1600 for both of us after my father died. It was horrible! My mother and him had never discussed the issue and she did not know what to do with the dead body. He was cremated and his ashes sat around for months. Eventually they were scattered to sea as is our plans as well.
The place is still here and still open and doing a good business but the price is about 2X the amount now for two persons.
As for the DNR's I had done, those were ASAP after Dad died too as he'd was in a horrific state being kept alive by machines that I managed to get disconnected.
Because of what happened to my father, Mother and I both immediately took care of business so to speak as we did not care to ever think this could happen again.
So as it stands now, neither of us would be kept alive if it came down to it. A hell like my father's situation drove me into action and that was over 20 years ago now.
However, after paying all that money to that lawyer and so many involved at that time, I let it go figuring it would all pass to my husband if I were to die.
As it now stands, both of us could go if we are unfortunate enough to get hit with this tRUMP sh*t that has infested the USA.
I thank you all again and please try to keep this thread going so others can see it and read it too and think think think just like test test test!
Both of us only care about the cats. The rest of what we have is valuable to a point but nothing like being millionaires or even close to that as we've spent time in poverty on and off since my DX of MS in 1995.
Its been one hell of a ride and if it ends with this COVID virus, well I guess that is God's will for us.
I did speak to a close friend re: these issues. He is one day older than I am and we are good friends and he was willing to do everything. There are two problems with him. One is that he does not understand what an executor is and what an executor needs to do. I doubt he has the patience for such a job and going up against my idiot brother would be a hell. I wouldn't wish it on anyone as he is such a disgusting ass.
Another problem is that he is not well either but I'd rather see him have a place to live than where he is now which is in a run down trailer with a hole on top of it with a tarp covering it to serve as a two-bit form of protection from the elements. He pays $350/mo. for this place to live.
Thanks again everyone and I am glad I am not alone. We are all in one hell of a damned mess. God help all of us no matter how you believe.
sl8
(13,931 posts)Thanks, also, to the respondents.
CrispyQ
(36,533 posts)Blue_true
(31,261 posts)I have seen online wills, but don't know about their quality. You are better off to find an ethical local attorney to at least provide a few minutes of advice.
Strelnikov_
(7,772 posts)Just got that feeling like guys got in Nam I ain't gonna make it through the funnel.
First I did LegalZoom, seemed to be comprehensive, wrapped it up and . . the document would be emailed in four business days. Due to my profession, did not know if I had four days until I re-entered the hot zone, went to FreeWill. FreeWill is probably more than adequate for a simple will. The advantage of Legal Zoom is a lot more flexibility.
Went in Monday to a bank, notary plus another employee witnessed (the notary can be a witness). Yesterday, when the LegalZoom version came in, repeated, tore up the Freewill variant (the LegalZoom version was a bit more comprehensive).
It appears that the Notary part is recommended in the event the will is contested. If that is not an issue, you can probably find a neighbor/friend or two to just witness, and that would be adequate. Main thing, witnesses cannot be beneficiaries.
If it's simple, Freewill may be the way to go. Document is available immediately.
https://www.freewill.com
https://www.legalzoom.com
Good luck, and let's be careful out there.
csziggy
(34,138 posts)You can get it from Nolo: https://store.nolo.com/products/quicken-willmaker-plus-wqp.html
It walks you through the process and "asks" questions to help you make your choices. It also suggests any other documents you need, such as Health Care directives, Power of Attorney, etc. and helps you set those up.
Although it gives complete directions for getting the documents produced notarized and witnessed as needed, you could copy it out in your own hand writing and be legal if that is possible in your state.
Because my situation is now changing I redid all my legal documents a little over a year ago with the help of an attorney, but I showed her the will and documents I had made with WillMaker and she was fairly impressed. They would not fit my current situation, but for where I was previously, they would have done the job.
As for your cats, I understand. The woman I have left my horses to is Republican, but she knows the horses and they know her so she was the logical choice. I don't have a cat at the moment but when we get more cats, she would be my choice to take them, too
csziggy
(34,138 posts)No harm in PMing him to see what he suggests.
flibbitygiblets
(7,220 posts)Quick and easy, took 10 minutes to fill out, print and sign. The hard part these days is finding a witness (social distancing woes).
Notary optional in most states, but will speed things up.