Anyone here think that the reason Romney can't remember stuff day to day is due to the head injury

[Tx4obama]

he received in that car accident in France when he was younger?

The time span between his statement flip-flops seem to be getting shorter and shorter each day.

12 votes, 0 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	Yes, I do.
	2 (17%)
	No, I don't.
	9 (75%)
	Maybe
	0 (0%)
	Who gives a shit :)
	1 (8%)
	Other
	0 (0%)
	0 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
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[MrSlayer]

1. No, he's just a liar.

He knows damn well what he's doing.

[AsahinaKimi]

21. This!

And all of this!

[Iwasthere]

2. Yes absolutely

Traumatic brain injury is generally associated with varying degrees of lasting mental impairment, which can include behavioral and/or mood disturbances, thought disorder, confusion, anddeficits of concentration, attention, and memory. Years later, TBI survivors who have recovered most of their faculties and function may still show mild forgetfulness, word-finding problems, impulsivity, and moodiness, and judgement can be disturbed in seemingly unpredictable ways. Interpersonal eccentricities may be even more likely. The prognosis for a 19-year-old patient is certainly better than for someone in their thirties or forties, but if unconsciousness and posttraumatic amnesia are prolonged, at least some of these adverse effects of TBI are likely to remain. Romney went on to be quite successful in college, business and law schools, and corporate enterprise, so any residual impairments would likely be but mild, subtle, and obvious to the casual observer only in unusual, extraordinary circumstances. Still, they could lead an otherwise brilliant and successful man to:
●misidentify Ryan as the next President of the United States
●forget the British Labor leader’s name
●speak of looking out the Prime Minister’s ass
●commit a gaffe of olympic proportions
●defy British security protocol in disclosing his meeting with M16 authorities
●forget the word for doughnut
●wager $10,000 during a presidential debate
●suggest that "corporations are people"
●state how he likes "to fire people"
●lose his temper when reminded by a conservative radio interviewer of his having ordered gender-neutral marriage certificates
●angrily confront the passenger in front of him in an airplane for pushing his seat back before takeoff
●defy a park officer's orders not to launch a boat in a lake, leading to his 1981 arrest
●brush aside a security officer in the 2002 olympics, insulting the man with obscenities
●commit voter fraud by voting in Massachusetts in 2010 despite no longer residing there
●strap his dog on the roof of his station wagon for an extended trip
●contradict himself on multiple occasions
Romney would likely deny many or most of these events, at least the interpretations of them by his opposition, but he has actually admitted some awareness of such problems. Romney (and his wife Ann) have acknowledged the problems with his temper, referring to them as "Mitt-frontations," her as a "Mitt-stabilizer."

from a post I found earlier

[Merlot]

9. Don't let that smooth face fool you - mitts in his mid 60's

Most of those things on the list can be explained by mitt just being someone who leads a very sheltered life due to his wealth, he's never faced any criticism for stating his opinion (corporations are people, etc ) Others are probably just due to the fact that he's got a lot on his plate for a man of his age...

Sorry, no excuses for bad behavior .

[progressivebydesign]

11. There is no way in hell he could have run Bain and been a Gov. with that type of injury.

Nope.. he's just a vapid liar.

[niyad]

3. see matt taibi's article in rolling stone--mittwit is a consumate liar

and I don't believe the accident story without strong proof

[nadinbrzezinski]

7. There is proof

The chaperone for these young men was indeed killed in that accident.

Privacy laws were not that stringent back then.

it might be one reason for the fibs...and remember Reagan already had early signs of Alzheimer's in 1984. He should not have run on those grounds alone.

That said, there is no possible medical explanation for Ryan, but the choice of Ryan might be related. It's almost impulsive.

[niyad]

10. having just read the article, the only proof is that mrs. anderson died. from the article,

it is clear that mittwit was not seriously injured, as he took over running the mission immediately.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Actually mitt was believed dead for a little while

And had some time of remaining unconscious and unresponsive. He was diagnosed back then with a concussion.

Concussions do indeed set the way for what we understand today as TBI.

I can't make a diagnosis, but given all that goes with the syndrome, and a nuclear arsenal, Mitt should undergo a very careful series of medical tests. It's the medical history stupid. And anybody with a similar history, regardless of party, running for national office in line to the Presidency, or the Presidency itself, should be medically cleared.

It's the Nukes stupid.

It won't happen, but after Reagan it should.

[niyad]

18. no official accounts?

. . .

By then, any official accounts of the incident had disappeared.

From the Times story:

In one of three recent interviews about the accident, Romney said he believes there was a criminal proceeding against Marie, and that he recalls filling out an affidavit about the accident. His spokesman, Eric Fehrnstrom, said in an e-mail, "the governor does not have any records from the court case against the driver of the other car in the accident in France." At the local police station in Bazas, officials said they do not have any records because they routinely destroy all documents after 10 years.

. . .

http://blogs.browardpalmbeach.com/pulp/2012/08/did_mitt_romney_kill_leola_anderson_conspiracy_theory.php

[nadinbrzezinski]

23. I am sure it exists in a dusty archive for the local ambulance corp

Another set of records for the local fire brigade, then there is the Gendarmerie, and if this was investigated by the French Courts. Given somebody died, yup sure. Of course there is an ER dusty jacket somewhere. I am betting it even has at least a frontal and lateral x-ray, no cat scans back then.

Here is a clue, if you went down to Mexico city and tried to find the record of my fifth call, man had his leg traumatically amputated... Why I remember it...

You'd first would have to get through the nuns, and damn they are protective, and then into the dusty archives. And since we did this transport to the red cross ER it's only one set of continuous records. I forgot the copy to the DA's office and the police.

This wasin late 1984. Try 1968... It's a long time ago.

You have Bloomberg telling you broken arm and he was unconscious...you think Bloomberg is lying? You are way more cynical than me. But if indeed he has TBI, discualified on medical grounds due to all that goes with the syndrome. I really do not want somebody with impulse control around the nuclear football.

Oh and you got your answer, they are less annal retentive than the Red Cross.

[niyad]

25. actually, I don't believe much I see in the msm, including bloomberg.

[nadinbrzezinski]

26. Well, then there is no use in having this conversation, is there?

I just told you that if indeed this sequence of events occurred, it discualified this candidate. Anybody with even a smidgen of medical training should realize why. This story does not help Mitt. It makes him far less qualified than without it.

But if you are trying to prove a negative by using media you don't even believe, why even bother with it?

[niyad]

40. we do agree--if he has some sort of brain trauma, he should be disqualified. and if he is the

consummate liar as described in taibi's article, he should be disqualified.

since that is not going to happen, if I were him, I would employ a food taster. lyin' rayn is one ambitious bastard.

[Lifelong Protester]

4. Ok, I dislike the guy and want him to lose

but to be honest, I'm beginning to think he does have some medical problem.

[DavidL]

5. When he beat up a kid with long blond hair in the 60's

he should have diagnosed as a personality disordered kid, and given adequate treatment.

He would have turned out to be another George Will, or fair tax Forbes guy, someone few listen to seriously but would have made a couple million a year as those two do, and just been forgotten pundits and columnists we all have to read and ignore.

[nadinbrzezinski]

6. More nuanced response.

One sign of traumatic head injury is indeed forgetfulness, another lack of impulse control.

While I cannot say for sure, it should lead to a very close physical to determine such. Before the nuclear age and mad who gives a shit? In the nuclear age that could be an issue.

In fact, Reagan showed very early signs of Alzheimer's as early as before the 1984 election. That is another man that should have been medically cleared.

Alas the system does not require it. To add any candidate for national office with a history that might suggest a medical impairment should be medically cleared.

It won't happen, but you asked. So the short answer is that it is indeed possible, in Mitt's case, that includes his fibs...how do you explain Ryan? He makes Mitt look almost honest. Ryan does not have such a history.

[niyad]

8. I found this article in bloomberg fascinating--no indication of serious injury to mittwit

wow, a drunk catholic priest, and romney manages to run the mission for seven weeks while the big guy is gone. does NOT sound like a serious injury to me. and I find it interesting that the guy who helped him run that thing for seven weeks would not comment for this article.

. . . .

The 21-year-old was driving mission leaders to Bordeaux in June, 1968, when a car driven by a Catholic priest who’d been drinking crossed into their lane and smashed head-on into their Citroen DS. The accident killed the Mormon mission president’s wife, who had been seated in the front between her husband and Romney. She was 57.


When Mission President H. Duane Anderson, then 55, took her body back to California for burial, Romney and another recruit jointly managed the church’s France operation of about 200 missionaries for the next seven weeks.
. . . .


On Sunday, June 16, 1968, at about 5 p.m., Romney drove the Andersons, fellow missionary David Wood, and two French church members, back to Bordeaux after staying the night in Pau, according to Anderson’s account in his wife’s missionary diary. They came over a hill about 31 miles south of Bordeaux when “we were face-to-face with a Mercedes driven by a Catholic priest,” he wrote. “The inevitable crash was horrible.”

The accident left Romney unconscious, with a gash to his head and a broken arm, the diary notes.
Taking Over


“http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-08-23/romney-in-car-crash-led-mormons-from-tragedy-in-france.html

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Here from your own link

The accident left Romney unconscious

That is where the concussion comes from. Even Bloomberg is running this. And a concussion is considered far more serious than we used to think even ten years ago, because it is the signature injury of the two wars he refused to mention.

Mind you, this is '68, back country road, so having an ambulance crew think Romney was dead for a while woud not be unheard off. 1967 was the year the US had the report that led to the birth of modern day EMS. France was not that much further ahead than us. Scoop and haul, that's what you did back then

And as I said, this should lead to careful medical testing. You do not want somebody with the football who is impulsive and has poor judgement and memory lapses. This has nothing to do with Mitt...it's just the way it is.

I guess being non-partisan helps.

For the record Mr. Ryan has zero excuses, he's just a liar. And sympathy for Ronmey? This further discualified him from the office in my mind...and if he has TBI, well he can afford the care

[Comrade_McKenzie]

13. I chose "Who gives a shit?" because...

I don't really care about the reason. I don't want the other side to start using this for some kind of bullshit sympathy play.

[backscatter712]

14. No, he tells so many lies he can't keep his stories straight in his head. n/t

[niyad]

15. I loe the fact that one of the witnesses (a passenger in the car) has been contacted and

asked NOTto talk about it. oh, and the coq au vin part is fun.

. . .


More than 40 years later, André and Paulette Salarnier, French Mormons who often cooked “coq au vin” and mushroom-stuffed crepes for the young Romney, say they received several emails from the candidate’s entourage asking them to no longer speak to reporters about the 1968 accident.



They just remember “an open and charming young man speaking French almost without an accent.” André Salarnier also makes sure to prevent any backlash regarding his famous “coq au vin,” a dish that could be forbidden to water-drinking Mormons and shatter Romney’s image as a pious Mormon: “The wine being cooked, it no longer contains alcohol.” A way to stop anyone from thinking that “Young Mitt” may have been corrupted by the French and their famous Bordeaux vintages.

. . . .

http://worldcrunch.com/eyes-on-the-u.s./mitt-romney-the-french-years/c5s4838/#.UE63PK50jK0

[left on green only]

35. Methinks that this is the brain child of the intellectual heavies who manage his campaign

Think of it as the Mitter's version of PT109, only no one has written a song about it......yet.




Edit for fat fingers.

[kestrel91316]

16. No. I think he came by his incompetent buffoonery naturally.

Though George must be rolling in his grave with dismay.

[loyalsister]

17. Campaigns are absolutely exhausting

They are in waking up in different states without much sleep, etc. And trying to keep track of information that is relevant to where ever they are. He's probably got a thousands of things running through his head different speeches\dialogue for different crowds. It doesn't take a head injury, Alzheimer's or any other kind of problem for that kind of multitasking to throw a person off their game from time to time.
It's a huge contrast to Obama's youth and skill rather than between their actual health.


I'm not defending him just explaining the reality of campaigning.

[niyad]

19. and yet other candidates manage okay. it is one thing to get a little confused, it is another

to tell lie after lie after lie. the man does not look exhausted, he looks plastic.

[loyalsister]

22. Other candidates are more experienced

Once a person does it a few times they have strategies for how to maximize their energy and mental stamina.


Don't forget that Obama is younger, much smarter, and in much better physical shape.
He is schooled on local facts for every place he visits.

Good campaigns have staff that do the research and prep the candidate before events. This could be a reflection of incompetent staff, or basic negligence. He is not comfortable in one on one interviews. Yes there are lies, but I definitely he forgets what he said last time because he didn't get enough prep. Some of those screw-ups also could be him accidentally saying what he truly believes.

He's in the midst of a crappy campaign. Can you imagine what he is like when people tell him what he should do? Anyone who has a problem with that does not belong in politics.

[niyad]

24. spare me. you do remember he was campaigning in 2008-- and before that as governor?

you can give him all the benefit of the doubt you want, to most of us, he is one big pack of clueless, entitled, heartless lies.

[loyalsister]

27. Are you honestly comparing running for gogernor to running for president as the candidate?

Clueless, entitled, heartless... obviously. I don't deny that he has lied, I don't think he is dumb enough to lie as much as he does intentionally. He does not benefit from inconsistent statements. I suspect there are staff members who want to slap him for screwing up and actually saying what he thinks instead of giving his canned answers.

[niyad]

29. you were the one who suggested lack of experience in campaigning. just pointing out that

that is not the case.

read matt taibi's article in rolling stone. the mittwit is one consummate liar.

[loyalsister]

32. Just as running for mayor is more difficult than running for school board

Running for president as a candidate is more difficult than running for governor of a fairly small state.
The original question was whether his lies are due to a head injury. I say no because campaigns I have seen the difference between a state rep vs. a state senate campaign.

He's not impaired by a head injury, he's in over his head.

[niyad]

38. you do remember that he was campaigning as a candidate in 2008. no, he did not become

the nominee, but he was running until the convention.

[loyalsister]

41. By cndidate I meant nominee

Again there's a world of difference between running in a primary and a general election of any kind. The toll a campaign takes on the candidate also depends on how competitive the races are.

Do you really believe that there is no difference? How close have you been to campaigns?

[TwilightGardener]

31. It has nothing to do with campaigning rigor. It has everything to do with the

man's willingness to say whatever he thinks will please a particular audience or get him out of a tight spot. What comes out of his mouth is meaningless to him, he neither remembers nor believes a word of it--sort of like memorizing a speech or presentation that you didn't write, involving a topic you don't care about. You deliver it and then it leaves your brain.

[left on green only]

28. An auto crash may have even helped his memory

When I was about the same age as was the r man (19) I went from my motorcycle in through the windshield of a car, and then back out on the street again (sans helmet - those were the days of "Easy Rider", when the feel of the wind in your hair was all that mattered).

To make a long story short, after an extended period of time spent in various stages of unconsciousness, I awoke not having any idea who I was, or anything about my past. But in the months that followed, the healing mechanisms in my brain worked to bring my powers of memory back to me in much greater detail than it ever had been before. Now, what was I writing about? (just kidding).

[AzSweet]

30. As a very young child..

..I was taught not to lie..not only simply because it is just wrong...but the more you lie..the more you have to remember your lies..and dig a deeper and deeper hole for yourself...its just easier to be truthful. Ummm..no, Mitts lies have nothing to do with his head injury.

[left on green only]

33. Your rational seems to me to be the most logical explaination

It would also cover the behavior of one Mr. Ryan.

BTW: Welcome to DU!!

[jsr]

34. He gets lost a lot

[eShirl]

36. I have no idea WHAT his major malfunction is

[treestar]

37. Definite maybe

This issue is intriguing. Rmoney should provide his medical records.

[porphyrian]

39. Nah, I won't let him off on disability. n/t

[MorningFrog]

42. YES!

I was just thinking the same thing.

I did a little research on traumatic brain injury and check out these links:

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/dementia_in_head_injury/article_em.htm

http://www.alz.org/dementia/traumatic-brain-injury-head-trauma-symptoms.asp

The occurrence of dementia following a traumatic brain injury (in Romney's case his concussion from the car accident) is much greater than for those who have never had a brain injury.

The symptoms are exactly what he is displaying now: unable to remember what he has said, irritability (when pressed for answers), memory issues...

In his acceptance speech he referred to Russia as our biggest threat. Pres. Obama called it a Cold War mind-warp, and it really might be just that. If Romney has developed dementia, related to his head injury or not, he may have been speaking from a mind that really was still in the Cold War era of politics.

Then there is the interview with David Gregory over this past weekend...he spoke about repealing "Obamacare" but then said he wouldn't get rid of everything, that he would keep some of the provisions. If you watch his eyes and his face, he was relaxed and happy talking about keeping some form of "Obamacare". Remember that "Romneycare" was his signature legislation in Massachusetts, and was an achievement that he was proud to have signed into law. If he was having a memory lapse, and temporarily mixing up the past with the present it would explain why he does (or at least temporarily did) want to keep some of the provisions. After the interview it was his campaign that said NO he will be repealing "Obamacare" in it's entirety.

The lapses in memory and not remembering what he has said are classic indications of dementia.
The petulant, irritable behavior he displays when asked about his flip-flopping are also part of the behavior of someone with dementia.
I've seen those displayed before when I worked as a CNA in long-term elderly convalescent care.
The person says "I'm so glad it's Friday" and you have to tell them repeatedly it's only Tuesday. And each time they get more and more upset and irritable and fussy.
They want to know how much longer until lunch and it's only a few hours since they ate lunch.

Dementia can develop gradually and present as personality quirks. Since his accident occurred at such a young age and he moved and was around a whole new peer group afterwards no one in France might have noticed any immediate difference in his behavior. He was away from friends and family for about two years, and they have attributed the mission itself to the changes in his demeanor.

It is possible that he is simply a liar and a jerk. But it is also very possible that he has a mental health issue that needs to be diagnosed by professionals, and treated. If by some great misfortune he is elected President, the stress of the job will only make his illness worse.