Watching the tapes of 9/11...even Matt Lauer asks...

[Atman]

Given the proximity to major airports and the size of the planes, how could air traffic controllers NOT have seen them coming. He says we'll get more information from the tapes. Which, we now know, were quickly destroyed.

[RKP5637]

1. I was saying something similar here at home yesterday, for all of the surveillance we have, missile

defense systems, etc., etc. there was certainly a huge hole in the system.

[Atman]

2. 18 minutes between strikes.

NO ONE saw at least the second plane coming?

[RKP5637]

3. It's all a mystery to me, but I don't want to wander into CT in GD on DU, so I'll stop here. n/t

[Atman]

8. I'm not wandering into CT

I'm watching the re-broadcast of NBC's coverage, and observing some of the comments the anchors were making at the time.

BTW, nearly 40 minutes later, ATC still hasn't noticed that a third plane is off course and headed toward the Pentagon.

[RKP5637]

11. Oh, I didn't mean you were wandering into CT, I was talking about me. It's all

so damn weird. I recall so well watching it on the TV when it happened wondering how the planes could be flying along off course unnoticed. I have a hard time believing our traffic control system is so nonchalant about off-course planes that huge.

[Downwinder]

10. TV cameras were there.

[Atman]

4. Someone answered the phone at Canter Fitzgerald?

Just heard Katie Couric say that. WTF? They already said all local tv had been knocked off the air because the towers are on top of the buildings. But telephone service to the burning top floors was still intact more than half an hour later? Couric said they called in and someone at CF answered and yelled "We're *bleeping* dying up here!" and hung up, but no one answered subsequent calls.

[Berlum]

5. LIHOP

of course. If Matt Lauer can think out loud about the obvious on national TV, we really ought to be able to discuss it on DU.

[HughBeaumont]

6. I'm also not buying the DC invisible joyride either.

I don't care what hit the Pentagon. That's not the issue. What I want to know is why anything, plane, train or automobile, was allowed to hit it at all . .. especially after almost a full hour after they knew the AA/United planes were off course and had been hijacked.

Very flimsy, flaccid excuses all around for this wholesale ball-dropping. VERY flimsy.

[begin_within]

7. Did people with power fail to do anything?

[lpbk2713]

9. People were waiting for a leader from the Executive Branch to emerge and guide them.

Unfortunately, the only excuse we had for leaders at that time were spending
the day in silence at 40,000 feet and in an "undisclosed location".

[MadHound]

12. They did see them coming

I distinctly remember, about forty five, fifty minutes before they hit the towers, Katy Couric was on national TV tracking these hijacked flights as they looped out over Pennsylvania, Ohio, and back to their targets. These planes were being tracked for an hour. The real question was where was the NORAD air defense force? The boys that had within minutes formed up and accompanied golfer Payne Stewart as he took his cross country death flight couldn't get it together to protect us on 911 even with an hour warning? Something is not right.

[RKP5637]

13. Excellent question, and as far as I know unanswered. n/t

[EOTE]

14. With regard to NORAD, there's this:

http://domestictreason.blogspot.com/2007/10/mineta-declares-cheney-ordered-stand.html

Of course, you'll only find this information on kooky, conspiracy theory type websites. "Legitimate" news websites don't feel this is suitable information to provide. Something is definitely not right, we're just not allowed to say what that is.

[sgsmith]

17. Please stop with the Payne Stewart nonsense

First, there was not a quick response to the Payne Stewart loss of communications. If you read the accident reports, what appears to be a quick response is actually the change from Eastern time zone to Central time zone. So what appears to be a 30 minute response is actually an hour and a half. (Or whatever the actual times were.)

Second, the initial responding fighters were already in the air on a training mission. They were not armed. They were not in a respond to a threat mode.

Third, the Payne Stewart aircraft was being monitored by ATC during the entire flight, because the unconscious pilots did not turn off the transponder on the a/c. ATC knew where the plane was, whereas the 9/11 flights all had their transponders turned off by the hijack pilots. Modern ATC is dependent upon electronic communication between the aircraft and ground systems.

[MadHound]

18. My, you're just full of disinformation today

First, the response time from loss of communication with Stewart's jet to initial in-air contact was twenty minutes.

Second, the initial planes that responded were armed, and took off from Tyndall AFB in Florida. They weren't on a training mission.

Third, given that Katy Couric was providing up to the minute details of where the hijacked 911 flights were, the transponders weren't turned off, and yes, ATC knew where they were. I watched that morning with my own eyes, so stop trying to say that I'm a liar.

Here's a bit of a refresher course for you on Payne Stewart.
http://wanttoknow.info/991026dallasmorningnews

You're spewing a lot of shit out there, got any links to back it up with?

[Whiskeytide]

15. I love a good conspiracy theory as much as the next guy...

... but there's very little to blame on the air traffic controllers and US based military response, except that we simply were not prepared for this. Now, the fact that we were not prepared in light of the briefings the Bush Admin received in the months before the attack is inexcusable negligence on the part of those guys. But the controllers and pilots involved did all they could under the circumstances. The Bush cover-up was not covering up a conspiracy, it was covering up gross incompetence.

[Atman]

16. More amazing observations...

Jim Miklashewski (sp?) initially commented that no one saw a plane. They assume it was a bomb.

Then, after the first collapse, the reporter talking to Tom Brokaw says

"It just collapsed into its own footprint. Buildings just don't collapse that way!"

Later, at 10:13, they are STILL not able to confirm that it was a plane that hit the Pentagon.

[cyberswede]

19. Locking...

This appears to discuss CT.

[cyberswede]

20. Unlocking! :)

Thanks to Atman for understanding - and for the nice unlock request.

Thanks to other hosts for weighing in.

Carry on...

[uponit7771]

21. I didn't know this part and it's a great question....