Does it always come down to hate or greed?

[renie408]

I have been pondering WHY people are Republicans and no matter how I slice it, I keep coming up with some version of hate or greed.

But I KNOW that it cannot be as simple as that. There has to be some reasonable basis for being a conservative. I mean, not ALL conservatives are assholes.

Right?

Cause I gotta be honest, I am just having a hard time seeing anything else. But it makes me feel like I am falling into some kind of MSM trap by being so polarized.

[Bonhomme Richard]

1. I decided it's helplessness and contempt.

Helpless \Help"less\, a.
1. Destitute of help or strength; unable to help or defend
one's self; needing help; feeble; weak; as, a helpless
infant.

Contempt \Con*tempt"\ (?; 215), n. [L. contemptus, fr.
contemnere: cf. OF. contempt. See Contemn.]
1. The act of contemning or despising; the feeling with which
one regards that which is esteemed mean, vile, or
worthless; disdain; scorn.

For some it's plain greed and others pure racism but I know people that are appear to be decent, intelligent, and caring yet it baffled me why they voted republican. Two things I noticed was anger based on a feeling of helplessness from some and then contempt for those further down the ladder from others. In the ones that I know it seems to be that combination which allows them to place blame on that minority that they believe are taking advantage of the system and ruining their life.
They seem to absolve them selves from responsibility.

[Bonhomme Richard]

6. Mentally they feel cornered and strike at those.....

they perceive to be weaker or simply different.
I think Democrats, in general, liberals primarily try to protect the weak and vulnerable.

[bullwinkle428]

3. Care to list all of the "individuals rights and freedoms" that Obama has taken away from

you/America in general?

[kctim]

9. Care to actually read the OP and stay on topic?

The OP clearly asks why some people are Republican and Conservative, and it has nothing to do with President Obama.

People on the right place more importance on individual rights and freedoms than they do on the monetary needs of society. We as a nation are to a point where half of the people now want the needs of society to trump the rights and freedoms of individuals, and that has led to the division we have today.

[bullwinkle428]

13. Okay, I'll happily stay on topic! Can you please explain the reasoning behind

the Patriot Act, which was a huge assault on individual rights and freedoms. That was clearly driven by a Republican administration, although I'm willing to admit that a number of cowardly Democrats went along with it.

[kctim]

16. IMO

Republicans are no more happy about the Patriot Act than Dems are, and I would say one reason neither really get all crazy about the Act is because it doesn't really affect most people directly. For example: most people won't be a victim of a warrantless wiretap so they really only think about it when they read about it. Whereas everybody is affected everyday by losing their freedom of choice with the ACA so it's always at the front of their thoughts.

[kalli007]

41. The people on the right DO place more importance on individual rights and freedoms

Such as....... Freedom to marry who you choose. Freedom to make your own decision regarding your body.........I think you can see where I am going with this.

[DURHAM D]

5. It has everything to do with hate.

[renie408]

17. Yeah, I might buy that, except what Republican other than you ever says that?

When I ask why they are voting Republican, I get variations on the following:

"They want to lower my taxes." (Untrue unless you are making a shit ton of money.)

"Mexicans are taking our jobs and we need a giant wall to keep them out." (Hispanic hatred)

"Barack Obama is Mooslim." (Black hatred coupled with xenophobia)

"Every fertilized egg is a precious gift from God." (hatred of women coupled with insanity)

You get the idea. Not even Mitt Romney talks all that much about individual rights and freedoms, which BTW, are code for "I can take care of myself and fuck you."

[kctim]

25. Yawn

And here I thought you actually wanted an intelligent discussion on facts instead of the normal cheerleading stereotypes.

Just in case you change your mind:
Lower taxes means more take home money, which means easier to get by. Wanting them does not make a person "greedy."
Our country DOES have an illegal alien problem, wanting to fix that is not "hatred."
Disliking or not trusting different religions is as old as time. People will jump to conclusions, especially for political gain, but ignorance is not racism.
Believing in a God and wanting to protect "lifes most innocent," is not a "hatred of women." Not wanting to pay for a womans contraceptives and health care, is not a "hatred of women." They are called beliefs and they differ from person to person.

Look, of course there are greedy, hate filled racists in the world, but the extreme does not define the whole.

"which BTW, are code for "I can take care of myself and fuck you.""

Believe them to be trivial if you wish, but the fact remains, our nation was founded on them, our history as a nation is the best example of them and our culture still embraces them.

[DonCoquixote]

26. taking apart the argument

"Lower taxes means more take home money"

Unless you are the multi millionaires and buisnesses that starve government with Tax laws, to the point where we cannot maintain good roads, schools, or other infrastructure. Not keeping these up makes the majority of people less able to get a job, which means less take home money.

"Our country DOES have an illegal alien problem, wanting to fix that is not "hatred."

Mostly because of greedy millionaires who want third world, non union labor in the country. They can beat up as many latinos as they want to, but people will go where there is food and jobs. Let us not forget that the reason there are not many food or jobs in latin America is because the US companies love to mess in their poltics to keep wages down.

Believing in a God and wanting to protect "lifes most innocent," is not a "hatred of women." Not wanting to pay for a womans contraceptives and health care, is not a "hatred of women." They are called beliefs and they differ from person to person.

One's religous beliefs should not become the LAW OF THE LAND THAT ALL OTHERS MUST LIVE BY.

Not wanting to pay for a womans contraceptives and health care, is not a "hatred of women."

Er, yes it is, as it makes women second class citizens at the mercy of any rapist that thinks Jesus wants her to be pregnant.

Believe them to be trivial if you wish, but the fact remains, our nation was founded on them, our history as a nation is the best example of them and our culture still embraces them.

Which is a fancy way of saying, "We Christians still own this country, and we will be obeyed."

[kctim]

30. The OP asks if it's only "hate" and "greed"

Not if differing opinions and beliefs are right or wrong.

I agree and understand how well balanced taxes are important, but most people are more concerned with their own wallet than they are about how much others pay in taxes or if roads need fixed. Not because they are "greedy" but because they are more concerned about their own well being.
We don't change their vote by calling them "greedy," we change it by educating.

Of course religious beliefs should not become the law of the land that all others must live by, but "all others" includes religious people and the law of the land should not come between one and ones religion. When it does, people will place their religion number one when voting.
We don't change their vote by screaming that they "hate" their fellow Americans, we change it with respect.

Rape has nothing to do with the not wanting to pay for anothers contraception and health care argument. Not allowing abortion in the case of rape is a minority view and is based on the life of the baby, not a hatred of women.

Being wrong on an issue is not hate.

We Christians?
I am an atheist. Our nation was founded on the principles of individual liberty and limited government. Those are all FACTS.
It has nothing to do with owning or being obeyed.

[renie408]

33. Sorry, my bad. SELFISHNESS, not greed.

[pampango]

29. Liberals just have a better idea on how to handle the issues you present.

"Lower taxes means more take home money, which means easier to get by. Wanting them does not make a person "greedy.""

If taxes were high and the government had enough money to fund the safety net and take care of people and there was not a huge deficit, then a tax cut might be appropriate. In Europe taxes approach 50% and the safety net, unions, working conditions and public services are much better. If we had a society like that then there could be a legitimate conversation on how much higher or lower taxes should be adjusted. We are far from that.

"Our country DOES have an illegal alien problem, wanting to fix that is not "hatred."

Agreed. It is how one proposes to fix the problem that is revealing. Conservatives go for 'self-deportation' which involves making life miserable enough that they will leave voluntarily. There is no evidence that this will work and in the meantime illegal labor is still available for exploitation. A path to citizenship recognizes that these people are not leaving and deals with it.

"Disliking or not trusting different religions is as old as time."

But not an attitude that is hardly conducive to a vibrant, multicultural society. It would work better in a homogeneous society that has just one religion not here.

"Believing in a God and wanting to protect "lifes most innocent," is not a "hatred of women.""

People are born male or female - black, white, brown - straight, gay. No group should have more rights to control their bodies than any other group. Religions are very ancient and many of their precepts are consistent with the eras in which they evolved.

[kctim]

31. I agree

My point is that dishonest labeling of different beliefs and values as "hate" and "greed" do not change votes that can be changed.

[renie408]

34. Mea culpa

I live in South Carolina. I run a horse farm. I know it might be hard to imagine, but I don't get into a whole lot of nuanced, intelligent discussions with Republicans.

I was venting the frustration I feel when confronted with the types of arguments I wrote about upthread. Apparently, you never encounter those types of people.

[renie408]

32. Is that why the average middle class worker makes $900 LESS now in real dollars than they did 30

years ago?

Yeah and when it was founded our nation had slavery and women were not allowed to vote and I don't think those are good ideas, either.

[2ndAmForComputers]

37. What argument? Please elaborate.

[porphyrian]

4. Can you imagine a republican movement based on love? n/t

[BOG PERSON]

23. i can't imagine any political movement based on love

it just sounds absurd and menacing

[porphyrian]

24. Ha! It sort of does, but that may help it work.

For a while, anyway.

[DonCoquixote]

27. Oh yes

and rest assured, these folks are prepping for 2016: Cory Booker, Rahm Emmanuel, and yes, even Hillary Clinton. If Obama wins, it will be because he finally stopped attacking the base, but the fools I mentioned will have none of that.

Granted, part of me would love Hillary to become a true liberal, to tell Bill to stop trying to take control and pull things to the right.

[pansypoo53219]

8. moyers had an interview that explained it. it showed how people value certain things. how liberals

are more heavily concerned with FAIRNESS & social values, where the rite values everything at the same level. i keep banging away at a moderate pub,, and she STILL thinks the rich shouldn't PAY THEIR FAIR SHARE and it's not the shoppers, but the bootstrap entrepreneurs that create jobs. OR the symbiotic relationship. she also buys into the 46% of people DON'T PAY TAXES.

also was having a debate w/ a LIBERTARIAN BOOTSTRAP GUY on ebay. they are wired diff.

[Initech]

10. I think it depends on one's income.

Middle class - "They're taking our jobs! I don't want my valuable tax dollars going to freeloaders!!"

Upper class - "I've got mine so fuck you!"

[Nikia]

11. Some people have a naive point of view

That business would regulate itself and treat its workers fairly if regulations were lessened. They think that rich people and business owners really will hire more people and give more to charity if their taxes were lowered. They think that tax cuts will stimulate business enough to increase revenue.
All that has been proven false. The right wing still says stuff like that and some good intentioned people believe it too.

[hifiguy]

12. It's usually some combination of fear, hate, greed, and racism.

Some just vote as their parents did out of habit.

[Corgigal]

19. I was going to mention fear too

Fear of "other", fear of the unknown, fear of change...

[lunatica]

14. I actually think it's their state of consciousness

Republicans tend to think in terms of "I" or "we" as in just their immediate family or tribe and of "others" as not being connected in any way, even emotionally or mentally. They lack the ability to empathize because they don't see others as they see themselves.

Democrats think of "we" as in community and beyond, understanding that human beings are identical in their wants and needs.

It's basically in how each understands, identifies or sympathizes with the rest of the world and humanity.

[renie408]

18. This and the post upthread about liberal vs. conservative thinking make the most sense to me.

But it still does not offer a reasonable conservative argument. I am really starting to think that there just isn't one.

[HiPointDem]

15. many conservatives are very nice people, and the reasons for their beliefs are not anymore weighted

to hate & greed than your average democrat's reasons.

[renie408]

20. Ok...but what would that BE?

Honey, I live in South Carolina. How many liberal friends do you think I have?? I know many conservatives that I like fine, but they still mention most of the things that I did in my OP.

[HiPointDem]

22. I live on the west coast, & I know plenty of conservatives who are conservative because of

1) religious beliefs that have little to do with greed (i.e. anti-abortion)

2) social beliefs, e.g. about the character-building/educational qualities of hard work, personal discipline, etc. and the detrimental effects of charity not accompanied by work in return (sometimes hypocritical but sometimes sincere, depending on the person).

3) personal experience, e.g. small business owners or property owners who are heavily dinged by regulations in the use of their property (these are not bigshots, one I have in mind is a 92-year-old woman who owns 5 acres and lives in a manufactured home on social security)

4) general belief in the free market ethos -- that the best results come from letting the market sort things out, and that the market, if left to itself, will work to topple the high as well (i.e. they believe the bigshots are protected by the government and if the government would get out of the way the bigshots would fall and the cream would rise)

There is, of course, an aspect of selectivity to their beliefs, as people are more likely to pay attention to what supports their beliefs and the media actively participates in presenting things which support the 'free-market/individualistic' ethos v. the 'democratic/socialist' ethos.

But the motivation for those i have in mind doesn't always seem to be greed, racism, or any of the more base rationales democrats sometimes suggest.

Of course, i've also met greedy, racist conservatives. But i've also met greedy racist democrats as well as self-reliant religious democrats.

In all cases, though, our political beliefs are the result of our knowledge & experiences in some mix.

[renie408]

35. Because liberals do not believe in hard work?

I think my point is that:

1) In reality, Christianity has nothing to do with being pro-life and being pro-life has nothing to do with being anti-choice. I am not pro-abortion, I am pro-choice. I do not feel qualified to make that decision for someone else. Oddly enough, neither did Jesus. He said that people should take care of the plank in their own eye before they worried about the speck in their neighbor's uterus.

2) "Do it yourself and if you can't, oh well." is NOT the same thing as endorsing a good work ethic. I have a strong work ethic and so does my husband. We have instilled the same in both of our children. The ability to recognize that sometimes life fucks you over whether you are busting your ass or not does not mean you do not have good work ethic. However, an apparent inability to empathize with people in trouble by expecting them to take care of themselves does indicate to me some level of hard heartedness.

3) I am not sure what that is addressing.

4) If the number of times that freedom of the markets ended up screwing the majority of people over did not exceed the number of times that regulation helped protect them, I might be able to buy into that. As anyone with a computer can look this stuff up for themselves, holding the view that 'the freer the market, the freer the people' seems a tad disingenuous to me. Free to do what? Starve? Get screwed by corporate interests?

Actually, I am coming to believe that the tendency to be either conservative or liberal is based on how much native fear a person has. Conservatives seem to live in a scarier world where they are suspicious of others. The more I drill down through their arguments and beliefs, they really DO seem to be based on either some sort of fear and suspicion or some form of selfishness.

[HiPointDem]

36. no, because political liberalism = welfare state.

you're wedded to your image of conservatives as driven by evil things, liberals as being nicer people.

[porphyrian]

21. Nope, it's fear or love...

[lpbk2713]

28. They want their piece of the pie ...

and yours too.

And heaven help anyone who stands in their way.

[ChazII]

38. This thread has provided

food for thought.

[2ndAmForComputers]

39. There's one more type of food it should provide.

If you know what I mean.

[2ndAmForComputers]

40. Food WAS provided!

Yeah!