The Trump administration's response to Covid is the strongest case I know against MFA

[Recursion]

This is enraging and frustrating but this is really clarifying the hesitation I've had to jump on board with that idea.

Trump is seizing shipments of PPE bound for states and counties. It's not clear why, though some of it will probably be redirected from blue states to red states, and it probably helps that Republican cronies have started some companies that make and distribute PPE. Meanwhile, McConnell is doing everything he can to obstruct Covid relief legislation, and Azar is stealing from the medical relief bill and simultaneously capping the amount of reimbursement for hospitals who treat uninsured Covid patients at $100 billion nationally (that's a fraction of what this is going to cost). Oh, and HHS is blocking state attempts to use Medicaid money to respond to the outbreak.

If we had gone into this crisis already having Medicare For All, things would have been much, much worse. Trump, Azar, McConnell, and the rest would have had even more control over the US healthcare system, and they would have used it to do even more harm.

As long as the Republican party exists we cannot take the risk of having them in charge of national health care. The piecemeal power they already have is bad enough already.

[KT2000]

1. My suspicion - follow the money

It is what was stated at one of the pressers. They will go to a broker who will jack up the prices. Anything that happens in the government is an opportunity for the trump/kushners to take advantage.

[Phoenix61]

2. If we'd had MFA the hospitals would all be

linked and sharing of equipment would be
much easier. People would seek care quicker instead of putting it off because they don’t have insurance. If we had had it for several years, people would be healthier overall, (which has happened to some extent with the ACA due to people managing chronic conditions better) and have better outcomes. States wouldn’t be trapped in bidding wars trying to obtain needed medical supplies.

[Recursion]

3. No, they wouldn't. That's my point. Look at what these people are doing.

First off, that's not what MFA does even when it works; that would be an NHS.

Secondly, my point is that Trump and McConnell and the rest are actively using the power they currently have to harm people; they would have more power to use if we had MFA.

States wouldn’t be trapped in bidding wars trying to obtain needed medical supplies.

Worse than that: states would be completely dependent on Trump for everything.

[Phoenix61]

5. I'm willing to take the chance because this

sure as hell isn’t working. All those folks in the hospital who don’t have insurance are going to have massive bills when they get out. What about the ones who don’t have access to a public hospital and die because they can’t access care? If the system is set up correctly (I know) he wouldn’t have access to it at all.

[uponit7771]

4. For this admin MFA would be bad, a lot of people on PO would net similar result

[Voltaire2]

6. 10 million people just lost their employer

health insurance and the NYT is reporting that private insurance premiums could go up by 40%.

Yeah this crisis sure is a compelling argument for why our current system is totally fabulous.

[Recursion]

7. So, that's not what I said, was it?

our current system is totally fabulous

I'm not sure what point you think that's addressing, because that's clearly not what I said. I said giving Mitch McConnell and Donald Trump even more power to harm people is a bad idea.

[theaocp]

8. No, you said as long as the Republican Party exists

they have the ability to do harm. We don’t stop life because there is evil in the world. Single payer would hardly be worse than the private hellscape we have now.

[Recursion]

9. No, single payer would be worse right now. Much, much, much worse

Trump would simply stop all medical care in New York and California.

[theaocp]

11. Okay.

Could not disagree more.

[Recursion]

12. Then you're just wrong. He's literally blocking shipments of PPE

If he controlled where medical money was spent he would simply cut off everywhere blue. If you don't see that I don't know how to make it more clear to you.

[theaocp]

16. I know. He's a god emperor who can starve blue states.

Why not just stop medicare to blue states?

[Voltaire2]

24. A wise person in this thread wrote:

“ First off, that's not what MFA does even when it works; that would be an NHS. ”

[ck4829]

18. "as long as the Republican Party exists"...

The solution is right there and people don't want to say it or even see it.

Disincorporation needs to be on the table.

[Laelth]

10. I hear you.

You make a good argument, and I recognize that you are not defending the current system.

Personally, I would still prefer MFA over the current system. OK, so a few oligarchs would game it and profit off of it. A dictator might try to control it completely, admittedly, but I doubt that he or she would have much success in attempting to do so. Career bureaucrats would keep the system running fairly, for the most part, and the power of the executive would be extremely limited. The optics of manifest injustice in health care delivery would be too bad if the executive abused this power.

Now, on the other hand, you mentioned a superior system (a NHS) above. I could seriously go for that.

-Laelth

[Recursion]

13. An NHS would be even worse under Trump than single payer

In that situation he could literally hire and fire doctors, and he would.

[Laelth]

14. In the UK, the NHS is a sacred cow.

The Tories have never been able to get rid of it, despite their best efforts. It would be the same here. The optics of “gaming” our NHS would be so bad that I doubt even Trump would try it.

-Laelth

[Recursion]

20. And in the US it would be a big fat target (nt)

[SlogginThroughIt]

15. This is absurd.

I get what you are saying but it is wring. Outside of covid there are a million other reasons that we should have MFA. There are people with absolutely NO healthcare options right now other that go broke and die.

If a president is going ti do evil they are going ti do evil. There is no stopping them. As you can see he is playing games right now to make blue states suffer. So what is the answer? Deny people better healthcare options? Until when? Cancel it when a republican wins election in the future?

And all of this is moot anyway as we currently do not have it and will not have it while he is in office - or even in the immediate timeframe after he is out.


So I guess I just don’t understand the point of this exercise.

[Recursion]

21. What would Mitch McConnell do if he were in charge of health care?

In MFA, he would be

[demmiblue]

17. Oh, good lawd.

[Tom Rinaldo]

19. So you think we should privatize Medicare?

Just wait till we see the private insurance premium increases next year. How many won't even be able to afford replacing their employer based insurance plans that they are now in the process of losing? Whatever companies that are still around next year are going to be laying off workers to offset the increase in their health insurance costs.

[Recursion]

22. I think it would be safer as co-ops

Azar is already reaching his grubby hands into the pot

[chowder66]

23. The strongest case IMO will be when his support drops into the 20 percentile.

I know that everything about him is horrific but it doesn't stop his idiots from being idiots.
Until enough of them die or get bored... this guy and the republicans who enable him literally get to kill thousands of Americans.