South Korea's return to normal interrupted by uptick in coronavirus cases

[SheltieLover]

[link:https://www.nbcnews.com/news/world/south-korea-s-return-normal-interrupted-uptick-coronavirus-cases-n1176021|


With many parts of the world wondering what a slow return to normal life will look like, South Korea's situation offers a warning: The curve doesn’t necessarily stay flat.

South Korea has been held up as a paragon for containing the coronavirus, lauded by the world for successfully flattening its curve, it is now bracing for a possible second wave.

With many parts of the world wondering what a slow return to normal life will look like, South Korea's situation offers a warning: The curve doesn’t necessarily stay flat

Local infection clusters have continued to set South Koreans on edge as case numbers fluctuate.

More at link.

[empedocles]

1. Uh-oh

[Ex Lurker]

2. So what's the end game

That's been my qustion all along. The world simply can't shut down for two or more years while we wait for a vaccine. The doctors and scientists are singlemindedly focused on stopping the spread, as they should. But that's only one part of the puzzle. We have to figure out a way to start opening back up, and that means accepting some level of risk. If governments don't do it in an orderly manner, people will start ignoring the orders and do it on their own.

[totodeinhere]

5. If the choice is between saving lives or restarting the economy I for one would choose life.

Older people and people with underlying conditions are not expendable. If this means I lose my job and go bankrupt then so be it if that's what it takes to save lives.

[Ex Lurker]

7. That's your choice, and it's a laudable one

Others won't make the same decision. You can't fight human nature. Even now, there are lots of posts about the guidelines not being folliwed. Unless you take China's approach, you can't keep people locked down indefinitely.

[totodeinhere]

9. If we need to take China's approach to save lives then we should.

Yes some Americans are not taking this seriously. But as the death toll continues to rise then they might be forced to get serious about this. Anyone who puts their financial situation above the lives of other Americans is the epitome of selfishness.

[Ex Lurker]

10. That's a really scary premise

Ben Franklin would strongly disagree

[DBoon]

13. Ben Franklin wasn't talking about sacrificing the lives of the elderly to keep the stock market up

Sacrificing the lives of the most vulnerable to keep a money machine going is the epitome of evil - it goes beyond selfishness.

[democrattotheend]

22. Thank you

I keep thinking about that quote - "those who would sacrifice liberty for a bit of security deserve neither." It has been disturbing to me to see some of the same people who rightly railed against the post-9/11 erosion of the constitution call for a Chinese-style lockdown here.

[EllieBC]

14. The economy is life though too. How do you honestly expect people to be fed?

Be real. No idealism, please.

Also how do you intend to deal with the frustrations of people in high density living situations being stuck at home with no parks to play in? Again, be realistic. How do you plan to respond to that?

I am not fond of ,"Ok Boomer" but I see a lot of Boomers screaming that everyone needs to stay put...for them. With no clear plan on how to handle all the unintended consequences.

[totodeinhere]

15. All of those considerations you mentioned pale in comparison to the reality that lives are on the

line. Just how valuable is a human life? Should we follow the advice of the Lieutenant Governor of Texas and put the lives of vulnerable people at risk so that we can restart the economy? Or should we make human life our highest priority? Do you really think it's idealism to make every effort to save lives? I don't think so.

[EllieBC]

16. Oh ok.

So starving kids or victims of violence are not as worthy.

Great.

So you have no plan except, STAY INSIDE FOR MEEEEEEEEEE.

[totodeinhere]

17. I am not saying anything different than what experts like Dr. Fauci and others are saying.

And this is not about me. I am willing to make sacrifices in order to save the lives of others. Of course we don't want children to starve. But this virus can kill in days or hours. Starvation is a long term problem and we are nowhere near that yet. But we are seeing people die now from this virus.

[EllieBC]

18. They need to be looking at all the pieces.

And they aren't. So no, the stay inside forever plan is not going to work for most people.

[totodeinhere]

20. You sound just like Republicans.

Every state with a Democratic governor has a stay at home order. Every state that does not has a Republican governor.

Your line of reasoning is very popular on Fox News by the way.

https://www.mediaite.com/tv/tucker-carlson-hits-fauci-not-an-economist-hes-suggesting-national-suicide-while-he-has-job-security/

[EllieBC]

21. It's not reasonable for months on end.

"You sound like a Republican". And you sound like a Boomer.

Again, there has to be a plan. Many of us are living paycheque to paycheque. In apartments with kids who are not in school. And all we hear is, "So stay inside! What's wrong???" from people who have no plan how to help. Soooooo Boomer-y.

[democrattotheend]

23. Exactly. It's not sustainable for months on end

And it's not about "dying for the Dow." The Wall Street tycoons have enough savings to weather this. It's the people who live paycheck to paycheck that I am concerned about.

[EllieBC]

25. Careful.

Not just worrying about people getting sick will make you an insta-Rethug.

[democrattotheend]

26. I know. It's concerning.

I've seen a fair amount of absolutism and bullying about this on our side too. But it's not just about money (although people need money to survive, so it's not really an either/or choice) - I'm also concerned about other health care that is being put off indefinitely to make room for COVID patients. It doesn't make sense to me that hospitals are canceling so-called "elective" procedures before they absolutely have to, which will probably result in more people dying from other conditions long term.

[EllieBC]

27. They did a story here in BC about "elective" cancer surgeries being put off.

Breast cancer was one of them.

Sure it can wait today. Next month it might be stage IV though but oh well guess you had to die.

[octoberlib]

46. Do you even understand that the whole reason for staying inside to flatten the curve

is so hospitals don't become overwhelmed and healthcare systems don't collapse? Hospitals in Spain were turning people away no matter what their sickness or injury because they simply couldn't treat them. Flattening the curve isn't a boomer conspiracy.

[SWBTATTReg]

28. Not reasonable? You're kidding me. This is a different kind of virus, it's not the flu virus that

we're all used to, it is a highly contagious virus that spreads very easily. It's a different animal. Don't you think that China and Korea, as well as Italy and other such places have gone through different scenarios already in experimenting w/ different methods of keeping their societies open, and then going back to closing down things, like what is happening now in S. Korea, where they have shut the spread of the virus down (they thought) and now hot spots are popping up.

We may not have a choice in the matter of staying closed or not. The virus is making the rules. No one else is.

[EllieBC]

30. Again how will you keep people from becoming bankrupt or homeless?

Or the spread of violence? You live in a country where people in the rural areas and urban areas are pretty damn well armed.

Telling people they have to suck it up and go without a home or food but stay at home, makes zero sense.

[SWBTATTReg]

33. Go ask the president this very same ?, or ask your representatives this. I don't know why you're...

asking us this question since in reality, none of us really has the answer. Do you? I assume that you don't since you're asking it, and you are asking the rest of us on DU this question, and you still debate their answers when they tried to offer you some answers. No one truly knows the answers yet. Like I said, this is an unknown virus with qualities of spreading like no other virus seen yet.

[CountAllVotes]

36. YOU, yes YOU could be an asymptomatic carrier

But YOU REALLY DO NOT CARE DO U?

As I shelter in place individual for god only knows how long, I do it for YOU, yes YOU.

As for YOU, I hope YOU are not an asymptomatic carrier because if YOU are, all that come near YOU could become infected and die by oh so toxic YOU.

But YOU REALLY DO NOT CARE DO U?

In the meantime, shame shame shame on YOU.

[EllieBC]

37. We too are sheltering.

And wondering how our bills are getting paid for April and May.

Trudeau has a plan but if you have any hours at all you get nothing. So my husband still has part time work so that means he gets nothing.

So shame on you. My kids will need food. We don’t need our car repossessed either. Shame on you.

[CountAllVotes]

39. I am an American citizen

Lots of people need food right now. Myself included!

As for Trudeau, ask him about his plans if he has any to offer YOU.

Vent your hatred towards those that are doing all they can to keep YOU and YOUR family safe elsewhere!

[EllieBC]

40. Nope.

Sorry, you aren’t my master. I will say that I don’t think sheltering in place hot months o bend is wise for anyone. A month? Sure. Months plural? No.

[CountAllVotes]

42. Stay in Canada then

You are safe there and YOU can do what the hell ever YOU want.

[EllieBC]

45. Ok.

Most of the complaining is coming from the age group who have very comfortable lives. Meanwhile those of us saddled with debt living paycheque to paycheque have to be screamed at for going into stores to buy unapproved products. We can’t go because you have to go. We can’t get outside because you need to. We need to go broke to protect you and you treat us like garbage. Well done, Boomer.

[CountAllVotes]

47. You know nothing about me

Nor my finances.

Find someone else to pick-on would you?

Welcome to my IGNORE list!

[Chainfire]

38. The only thing people need

is food and shelter. The only other thing we can't live without is life......

The production, processing and distribution of food can continue through a pandemic.

We may be forced, for a while, to live without so many toys and so much entertainment, but humans have lived simpler lives in the past, we are not a different species that lived 100 years ago. Go back and look at the situation that the people of Leningrad suffered through 900 days of siege. Sure, a hell of a lot of them died, but a hell of a lot more lived.

To claim that he pursuit of wealth should take precedence over the pursuit of life, is nothing less than inhumane. If we are willing to sacrifice a generation in the pursuit of wealth, then who else may we find that we can live without. I would think that someone who displayed the Star of David would understand the principle.

[Blue_true]

41. One path would be to lock down for three weeks, test EVERYONE

during that period. People that test negative and had no contact with positive testing people could resume outside activities. It may require that families be split until a cure or vaccine is found, but at least the economy could restart, with one caveat, people that are in isolation MUST be taken care of financially and medically.

[CountAllVotes]

43. +1

N/T

[EllieBC]

44. That would be brilliant and would work.

Thank you for an actual suggestion other than, “stop worrying about your bills!”.

The rapid test seems promising and I hope they can expand the usage. The antibody test as well.

[gristy]

8. when you say risk...

do you mean individual risk or pandemic risk? Because the statistics of large numbers and the very large data sets being (sadly) collected can tell us exactly what level of community isolation is needed to keep the virus from spreading (i.e. R0<1.0). Risk makes sense only applied to the individual.

[tblue37]

11. I think we'll see antibody treatments before we see a vaccine. nt

[obamanut2012]

12. same

[totodeinhere]

3. This is the big worry. When we let up social distancing measures will it come back with a vengeance?

We might have to continue these measures for months until a vaccine is ready. And of course we don't know how effective any vaccine might be.

[Ex Lurker]

4. Can't happen, won't happen. See my post above nt

[gristy]

6. That's right. There can be no return to normal until we have a treatment or herd immunity

And hopefully herd immunity doesn't come about simply because 80% of the population has caught it.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

19. Ugh. At some point, I might be willing to get infected...

... with a SMALL amount of the virus (controlled setting), and let my immune system try to handle it while I remain in isolation.

I’m referring to something akin to how Washington inoculated his troops from smallpox during the Revolutionary War.

Until there’s some kind of treatment, I’m mostly concerned about an infected person giving me a large infectious load, like a sneeze in my face, and the viral replication process will be overwhelming before my immune system has enough time to respond.

[SWBTATTReg]

31. I suspect that this will be one of the treatment protocols they'll try, to weaken the CV, and then

infect willing test subjects to see if they can develop antibodies to kill the CV (my layman's language, I apologize if I've mangled). Then they'll try and propagate the antibodies for use elsewhere, I think that they (some medical experts) are already trying this on some pretty sick CV victims.

[Buckeye_Democrat]

34. That might be the tactic eventually. nt

[uponit7771]

24. Damn... Damn.... Damn!!!!

[BeckyDem]

29. It makes sense when you consider there is no vaccine. So how could it stay flat?

So sorry to hear this.

[EllieBC]

32. Flat doesn't mean goes away.

Flattened curve just means the same amount get it at a slower pace. No one reasonable thought we all lock up for a couple of months and it disappears.

[soryang]

35. Public health investigators determined there were 6 other "spreaders" besides case 31

...in the Sincheonji cluster in Daegu. These were determined to be either before or contemporaneous with case 31.

Also South Korea continues to drop in the standings of confirmed infections, now at number 17 according to the Johns Hopkins' numbers.

The general issue presented for discussion in the article is a legitimate one. But note that most of rises in case numbers from the very beginning were due to religious activities in close quarters associated with the Sincheonchi cult. The unrelated church in Seoul offers a similar example of assembling believers in close indoor quarters and then suffering a breakout as a result.

Another problematic cluster was associated with a call center in which employees were jammed together.

The question of whether and when to resume classes no doubt is a big issue. Private tutoring facilities could present similar issues.

Typically, the public health authorities are addressing these issues about social distancing on a institutional basis, judging each social activity on its own dynamics and how to modify or adjust processes or behaviors as necessary.

New numbers are in a substantial way related to overseas travelers coming home. Here locally, I know a lot of Korean college students just left the US to return to South Korea because the university dormitories here are shut down until further notice. People coming from the US to the South Korea are considered one of the greater risks to controlling the pandemic.