I am so moved to tears....pictures Libya and a post *Update*

[SunsetDreams]

Last edited Thu Sep 13, 2012, 11:46 PM - Edit history (2)

محمد الشركسي · Libya bengazi and England
hello every one, iam a libyan from benghzi and I would realy like to give my deep condolances to the family of Mr stevens and to all the American people and also my condolances gose to the libyan people for losing such a great man........ 100% of the libyans are so sad when they heared the news, those how did this are no more terroristes and we will bring them to justis soon.
Reply · 107 · Like · Follow Post · about an hour ago

In the thread at buzzfeed with pictures...










Romney knee jerked and wants to attack these people?

http://www.buzzfeed.com/jtes/12-photos-of-benghazi-citizens-apologizing-to-amer

Update(Video of Demonstration)

There have been some claims circulating around the internet that the photos that came out of that demonstration were photo shopped. As you can see from the video, that claim is false. You can clearly see signs in Arabic as well as English in the Video and some of the same signs and people from the photos.

The Media guy for buzzfeed, or somebody enhanced(enlarged) the photos, and that made artifact appear..which led some to claim they were photo shop images.

Here is a link to Rueters http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/libyans-denounce-acts-of-terrorism-slideshow/demonstrator-holds-message-during-rally-condemn-killers-u-photo-225806960.html

Thank you Libyan people for speaking out against the violence and showing your support.

[fleur-de-lisa]

1. Thank you for posting . . .

I feel sorry for those people. Still trying to get their country on its feet and now this shit! They are probably terrified that we will start bombing them. Romney is a fucking asshole!

[SunsetDreams]

2. I can't stop crying

Those pictures are so touching and then that post just broke my heart

[seabeyond]

3. .

[Glitterati]

4. Sorry, folks, but there's a LOT of Photoshopping going on here

ALL of these images are photoshopped.

While I hope the sentiment is genuine, these images are definitely NOT.

[gaspee]

8. Proof?

[Glitterati]

18. Here's just one image

How to I upload an image?

[Schema Thing]

83. lol, but you're an expert on photoshop?

[Glitterati]

91. Did I say that?

Did I allege it?

I do use Photoshop, daily. But I never claimed to be an expert.

Quite frankly, it doesn't take an expert to see the obvious Photoshopping going on in these photos. Just gullible people who refuse to accept the possiblity.

[snooper2]

140. you are performing epic fail left and right here LOL

[kestrel91316]

9. Please provide links to the original, unphotoshopped pics, dearie.

[Glitterati]

20. Excuse me?

How the hell am I supposed to know where these images came from?

Wow. Just. Wow.

Ask ANYONE who does any graphic design about the images. They are photoshopped to hell and back - poorly. They are such bad jobs, anyone with ANY skill can see it.

[Care Acutely]

27. Anyone with skill or knowledge would know how to upload images.

Yours truly,
One former photographer and graphic designer.

P.S. It's not that hard.

[kestrel91316]

29. FAIL. YOU are the one claiming they are photoshopped. Now provide proof.

[Glitterati]

31. I'd love to.

Just explain how I upload an image? Please.

on edit:
https://anonfiles.com/file/7b63f0680f7eb0050ad39ba24820a10c

[patrice]

104. Go to a photoserver like PhotoBucket, register and then follow their upload

instructions. Once the photo is uploaded to a photo serving website, they will provide you with a direct link to the photo. Copy that link and paste it into a Message text box here and the photo will be displayed when you post that message

[Glitterati]

113. Thank you, patrice

Your assistance is appreciated.

[patrice]

122. I see what you're talking about, but since the same guy is in a different photo

with the same sign and that lady with the multicolored scarf is standing to his right (and slightly behind him) there too, I'm thinking it was somekind of editing/composition decision, kind of having trouble trying to figure out why, though, and notice that the shape of his left leg/jeans has a point on it that almost fits an indentation in the arm (?) of the guy to his left. Not sure what that's all about, but I'm also not sure that it is dishonest.

Sorry about the somewhat hyperactive defensiveness around here. I won't presume to explain it. This board has always been pretty wild during election cycles. There are a lot of people who are really struggling with everything.

I hope you don't give up on us. It's not always this unfriendly here!

[Glitterati]

125. I could give you multiple issues

In these photos, but frankly, it's not worth the effort at this point.

I realize folks are really dealing with a lot, we all are. My whole point was to save some folks some embarassment by having someone attack them if they posted these pictures elsewhere. Since I am professionally a part of the artist community, I realize how ugly some folks can get about these kinds of things. And, yes, I am paid for my Photoshop skills, as well as my 3D modeling and texturing skills. I do know my field, and it includes Photoshop - and how to successfully manipulate photos and 3D renders.

The editing in these photos was very poorly done by an amateur. It's not the indentation that is the issue - it's the white matting around his leg that give away the "shop job." Pros know to Defringe and remove the White Matting.

This is a "shop job" done right:


That's not the only issue, either. I had prepared quite a list of issues with the photos, but gave up when I was attacked so vehemently. I, too, am dealing with issues and don't frankly have the time to waste while being attacked.

But, thank you, sincerely, for your kindness and help.

[Electric Monk]

127. Ok thanks, now it's obvious you've been just joking around the whole time.

Which most of us already knew...


See ya next time!

[Electric Monk]

128. The "white matting around his leg" is a child behind him in the crowd. Good bye and good night.

[Glitterati]

130. Oh, LOOK! I found the original pictures and the photographer!

http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/libyans-denounce-acts-of-terrorism-slideshow/demonstrator-holds-message-during-rally-condemn-killers-u-photo-225919921.html

And, here's the guy that I said was a shop job:
http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/5jiK8aZd9.KvCZKRw9djfg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD04NjI7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/

[LittlestStar]

48. If you look at the second photo in OP you will see several signs from other pics

The photoshopped picture/evidence you posted does look a little funky but if you look at picture 2 I dont see anything that makes it look photoshopped.

[Glitterati]

133. Just for you, kestrel

http://gma.yahoo.com/photos/libyans-denounce-acts-of-terrorism-slideshow/demonstrator-holds-message-during-rally-condemn-killers-u-photo-225919921.html

Every image posted in the OP is Photoshopped from these originals.

[BeyondGeography]

12. I guess I heard fake Libyans on NPR as well

basically saying what these "photoshopped" signs say.

[Glitterati]

23. Jeeeeesssssus!

Wow! I was just trying to save some fellow Democrats some embarassment.

Go ahead. Post them all over Facebook. Embarass yourself.

But, I expect an apology from you when someone ELSE takes you to the shed publicly.

[WilliamPitt]

46. Someone alerted on this post, #23.

I was a Juror.

Voted to leave it alone.

People need better hobbies than hitting the alert button.

Just saying.

[SunsetDreams]

13. Please...just stop.

[Glitterati]

21. Sure. Go ahead. Make a fool of yourself

Posting badly photoshopped images all over the internet.

[SunsetDreams]

47. You made the claim, you provide the proof

[alcibiades_mystery]

14. You're an idiot

[Glitterati]

24. No. Anyone who re-posts these photoshopped images is

But, please. Go ahead. Post them everywhere.

Embarass yourself. Works for me.

Namecalling is no way to debate.

[LunaSea]

15. Where's your evidence of PS?

Come on, convince me.

[Glitterati]

25. Can you tell me how to post an image?

I'll be happy to point out the bad photoshopping. I've already done it.

I just can't figure out how to post it.

Help?

[ibegurpard]

26. wait what?

you can spot a photo-shop but you don't know how to post a link?

/facepalm

[Glitterati]

30. OMFG!

I asked how I post an image. Not a link.

Good heavens!

[Vehl]

32. like this (PS: edited)

Upload your images to a image hosting site (eg postimage) and then use the following tag to embed the image


EDITED: Sorry the tags were being made invisible..so i took a small screenshot of the correct tag format


[IMG][/IMG]

^^ like that

[Glitterati]

40. Thank you

http://anonfiles.com/file/7b63f0680f7eb0050ad39ba24820a10c

[Vehl]

44. need some slight modification

Right now you are using the url link to the anonfiles page which has the image and not the image Url itself.

right click on the image on anonfiles and select "copy image url'

and use that url surrounded by the tags to embed the image.

Hope it helps.

[Glitterati]

50. Trying

" target="_blank">

[Vehl]

52. EDIT: Not photoshoped

I have to say that image does look photoshopped indeed. Good catch
Btw I hope the actions of some overzealous internet prankster does not detract from the real sorrow the Libyans feel. Such photoshopping will only play right into the hands of the republicans.

ON EDIT:

Does not seem to be a photoshop...as post 58 points out there is another pic of the same guy from a different angle. so I doubt he was photoshopped in. However I have to say that the original pic did have some funky looking white artifacts.

[LunaSea]

62. No, it doesn't

Any examples in the other pics?

[Vehl]

67. I was wrong.

This image does "look" photoshopped, but psot 58 convinced me otherwise.
I have to say that the white meshing/lining does look like photoshop artifact thought. However the photo of the same guy from another angle(post 58) does show that he was indeed there and not photoshopped in.

[Mojorabbit]

129. Looks photoshopped to me. nt

[Glitterati]

132. It is

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/5jiK8aZd9.KvCZKRw9djfg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7Zmk9aW5zZXQ7aD04NjI7cT04NTt3PTYzMA--/

[Voice for Peace]

171. It seems like someone put together several pictures

into one image. Not photoshopped for the purpose of deception.

[defacto7]

63. The name of the photo you are posting has the word

ENHANCED in it

But only in the ORIGINAL AT THE TOP OF THE PAGE!

It seems you have remove that word to post it.

You are a very interesting person to say the least.

original:
enhanced-buzz-wide-27696-1347483363-5.jpg

yours:
1347496991419.jpg

what are you aftter?

[Vehl]

73. he probably saved it with a diff name after making the marks

Photo editors will prompt to either over-write the existing source image or create a new copy if any modifications are made. Thus unless one wants to over-write the source image..one would just save it as a new image with a different filename(same filesnames will not be permitted by the OS)

[defacto7]

76. How convenient that that particular word was removed.

Proving his point by altering facts?

[Vehl]

80. AHA!!! I just realized something!!!!. The Media guy expanded the photo digitally!!

The word Enhanced probably means some media guy resized/expanded the photo!!!!

This would explain the artifacts(white mesh and other stuff) that is commonly associated with photoshopped images.
Ok finally this filename solves the nagging doubts I had earlier about that photo...digitally blowing up photos will result in such artifacts.
The blame rests with whichever media guy who did this(if "blame" is the correct word)


PS:I personally dont think Gliteraty had any nefarious intent when he truncated the filename....I do the same due to laziness...instead of typing a new filename I jsut delete part of the old file's filename to make a new filename. maybe we should not read too much into it

[Betsy Ross]

35. The photo must be on-line

enter the url in your post.

[Glitterati]

38. Thank you

http://anonfiles.com/file/7b63f0680f7eb0050ad39ba24820a10c

[LunaSea]

45. Copy the link to the image and paste into your reply

?w=500&h=300

[Cooley Hurd]

16. 5-6 requests for proof... all ignored by you

[Glitterati]

22. Not ignored

Give me a frigging chance, OK?

[LunaSea]

34. "Definitely Photoshop" you say

I want to know what makes you say this.
Show me a stray Pixel. Show me some stamp tool.
Show me something that could convince me you have the slightest idea what you are talking about.
What is your PS experience level?

[Glitterati]

39. KMA

http://anonfiles.com/file/7b63f0680f7eb0050ad39ba24820a10c

[LunaSea]

53. "Shadow matches nothing?"

"Shadow matches nothing?"
Except for the flash from the camera.
What else you got?

[Glitterati]

55. ROFL...

Please. Post them everywhere.

But, yeah....you look at that shadow. Then look at the shadows that are LEGITIMATELY in the photo.

They don't match.

Not. Even. Close.

[LunaSea]

66. What else you got Glitterati?

This could be very fine work indeed, I might just learn something here.
Show me some more "definite" evidence.

[Glitterati]

102. Not a thing

I'm done with this battle you've devised for yourself.

Do as you wish. Believe as you wish. I'm not wasting anymore time.

[Panasonic]

58. Oh, how about the same dude from a different angle?

[Vehl]

65. !!!

Yes its the same guy

Wow this means their camera's are pretty messed up. I clearly thought that there was white meshing/artifact from photoshop copying on the other image. Now seeing this...you might be right.Not a photoshop

[LadyHawkAZ]

134. Damn, they are GOOD with that Photoshop!

They even shopped in



the nonexistent other photographer that wasn't taking the fake photos!

Now that is some forward thinking! I am impressed! EarlG will be so jealous...

[chknltl]

135. What flash? No flash catchlights in eyes of anyone!

One could argue a flash was used...... perhaps..... lady on bottom right has what appears as warm frontal light on her face, everyone else does not. She has what appears to be a reflection on the rims of her glasses too. This 'could' suggest a flash that was to the left of the camera, perhaps a flash on a backward set up flash bracket. (awkward but technically possible).

That said where are the telltale catchlights in anyone's eyes? Furthermore if a flash was used like I suggested why did it not illuminate the circled shadow under center man's arm?

These people were in open shade from what I can tell. Primary daylight was coming from above left as evidenced by persons on upper left and right. Please note how the left side* of their heads are slightly brighter, especially the upper left side of man's head.

A possible anomaly is that the man in the middle. His head does not appear to be in the same light as those to his left or right. This COULD be explained by a shadow cast from a flash held low and to the right of the camera, This would be consistent with the warmth in the face of the lady in the right foreground I mentioned earlier but again I ask where are the telltale catchlights in ANYONE'S eyes? A flash held there should have put catchlights in the eyes of lady bottom left at the very least.

With only this tiny smart phone I can not diagnose photo any further nor am I truly qualified. That said there is plenty enough doubt in my mind, I am betting this photo has been manipulated in some fashion.

Take this photo to the photography forum and let them take a look. Our fellow DUers there are pretty good at lighting. I suspect they'll back me up on this one.

*(left side as we view it, from their perspective it would be their right side)

On edit-another point for a flash being used is reflection on lady's bracelet and center man's watch. This arguably ties these things together but I still feel lack of catchlights in eyes and darker head of center man argues for photo manipulation..

[LunaSea]

136. please see post #115

[chknltl]

139. LunaSea this is lengthy but lets you know why and how i conclude what i did

I was monitoring the 'debate' going on here until about 8 hours ago when I fell asleep last night when I posted this. Having read no further I respond blindly here. Obviously this could be settled if Glitter demonstrated position better. (perhaps this was done after I went to sleep perhaps not). My post is only adressing the lighting done in the single photo. I am/was a amateur yet working photographer for a couple of decades. I gave up a few years back. I have some competency when it comes to portable flash photography, no I am by no means an expert. Here is but one of many examples I posted in the photography forum in DU1 which should rank my skills:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=view_all&address=280x31221

I am not trying to take sides here but in my estimation this photo looks wonkey, could I stage something like it? I think so but it would have been difficult for me to do and it would have made no sense to do so-ESPECIALLY not with a single camera with a single off camera strobe (flash) on a flash bracket. Most news photographers travel lighter than I did, they don't need or use flash brackets. The only other way to recreate this photo WITHOUT digital manipulation is if the photographer cropped this photo drastically- that this is only the "northwest" quarter of a much larger photo which makes no sense again, why on earth aim the camera that way when this is the obvious subject/composition.

Another possibly way to recreate this photo naturally is with the use a handheld bounceboard, one with a warming or gold reflector. It would have been held by an assistant and aimed to add the warm light we see in the face of the lady in the lower right of photograph. Traveling with an assistant suggests this to be a staged photo again. That said it would not explain the jot spots on the man's watch not the lady bracelet...these in that case had to have been nads by a flash aimed that direction not by the bounceboard filling in light and aimed elsewhere. If those hotspots are made by a flash then where are the catchlights in everyone's eyes from that same flash?

I swear I am not taking sides here, I just find the photo very strange from the perspective of how it is lit, I am betting it was manipulated. I am betting photographers more professional than I ever was would agree with me.

There is SOMETHING very strange going on in this thread...

[LunaSea]

151. Consider

If this photo were retouched to give it a specific meaning that was not present in the original, why would the retoucher spend a lot of time making alterations that were not necessary for that purpose?

Neither of us knows the details of the circumstances behind these photos, they could possibly be the most incredible 3d renders we've ever seen, processed by a building full of supercomputers.
But how likely is that?

Picking apart the lighting and equipment begins to resemble a discussion with those folks who swear they find evidence of alien technology or a massive coverup by the government in nearly every photo ever taken from the Moon or beyond. Usually they end with an argument similar to Glitterattis, "I'm right because i want to believe it" never mind the evidence or logic.

Glitteratti made several claims and offered nothing to back them up.
If you or anyone else finds some solid reason to doubt these pics are what they seem to be, I look forward to seeing it.
Maybe, overlooked by myself, somewhere in the crowd scene, Bigfoot is waving hello.

[chknltl]

158. I stand with you on all you say

Glitter has not backed up what he said. That paints him as full of poo in my book.

Why anyone would go to such lengths to digitally remaster a photo when the affect of that remaster changes nothing in the message is beyond me too. Senseless actually unless we are missing a changed message. I am not sure even glitteratti has gone that far.

While looking at this one shot, I noticed that the lighting was wonky, I still say that. I have searched for reasonable explanations for this in my own rather limited experience and came up short. FWIW I sent photo off to a friend, a photography (studio lighting) mentor actually asking him if he thought something was wonky also.

Look, fellow DUer, personal sarcasms are not helping. I see a mystery and seek an explanation. A simple explanation may manifest itself. My friend may respond with a perfectly acceptable response to what I see as a lighting issue. OTOH he may go hmmm too.

(seen a sasquatch once btw. Actually a group of us, watched it from the safety of our ski lodge balcony, might have been faked but none of us thought so).

[GoneOffShore]

138. Flash was probably used but with a diffuser or bounce card.

Some people will shoot with a bare flash, but lots use a flash angled up with a white reflector card attached. Gives the light you need without lots of hard shadow.

[chknltl]

145. yes, used to do that too

But note watch and bracelet catchlight, this suggests flash but where is catchlights in eyes? Why is lady's face bottom right corner appear to be warmed by diffused light aimed or bounced directly into her face? Recreating this photo outdoors using portable lights and bounceboard, sure! Recreating this photo as a news photographer on the street with a bag or two of gear catching the moment? This is what I question. I believe the photo was staged! By who and to what purpose?
Re-editing, no longer think it staged. Adding more below too

Furthermore regarding the man in the center, his head is not lit at all by natural light from above as are the two individuals to his left or right. Sure we can come up with explanations for each of the things I suggest here or earlier, put them all together on the other hand and this photo seems wonkey at best.

(from second edit: just noticed catchlights in eyes of lady to lower left of photo. This is consistent with: photograph shot from low perspective , diffused flash with a warming difuser aimed to photographer's left. Primarily hitting lady on lower left and bleeding slightly over to lady on lower right. It does not account for strong reflection on man's watch or woman's bracelet. Nor is there an explanation for why center man's head is not receiving same upper natural light as the two to his left or right. With this tiny cellphone screen I can go no further. Photo still seems wonky to me. Frankly I do not have the expertise to account for the wonkyness I see here.

[jillan]

19. What do you think these signs said before they were "photoshopped"??????

[JDPriestly]

37. That's what I thought. The signs appear to all be in the same handwriting.

This does not look "real." It looks really phony. Sorry that someone would do this on such a sad occasion. It is really an insult to those who were killed to put up phony-looking pictures like that.

[Cooley Hurd]

41. Maybe only one person in the crowd (who knew english) did the writing?

[Glitterati]

49. Same sign, held by different people in different images

https://anonfiles.com/file/e519ea2aa0c7d34e7a17d242cd36bf9e

[Cooley Hurd]

51. Really?? That's what you're basing your accusations on?

The same sign with different wrinkles? Could they have... um... PASSED THE SIGN AROUND?

[Glitterati]

57. Not quite

But, that's OK. Seriously....study the photos. Let's assume they "passed the sign around." Check the photos. They're not even close in background, crowd, faces of the crowds, lighting. If they were sharing the sign, wouldn't they have to be relatively close to each other? The scenery would match at least partially?

Someone pasted that sign over a sign, probably in Arabic.

[Care Acutely]

75. What drives your fervor against good people standing up

and reaching out in these photos. Your "evidence" is tragically lame, given that the photo you make the biggest deal of was honestly labeled as being enhanced right up front.

The rest just isn't that hard to figure out. A photographer taking probably dozens or tens of dozens of photos of people who want to get messages out to America with only a few signs and fewer people who can write in English.

So again I ask, why are you so fervent and eager to discredit these people?

[Glitterati]

84. I'm not fevrent

This is the most ridiculous thread I have ever seen on this forum.

Good heavens people, do what you want.

Spread them, post them, do what you wish with them.

I'm just telling you that they are very bad photoshopped versions of photos.

Do what you want.

I was simply trying to save you some embarassment.

That goal, however, was wasted right here in this thread. The attacks and behavior here is an atrocity.

But here's a dare for you......any of you.....post ANY of these pictures on DeviantArt. Then wait for the attacks when true artists tear you up for badly photoshopped images. And, then, hopefully, the original photographer comes along and finds his mutilated photos and files a copyright violation claim against you.

Good luck.

[SunsetDreams]

87. They are not photoshop the Media guy enhanced them

That was made clear in the file name, of which you ignored. ANY ENHANCED IMAGE will give off artifacts.

I will continue posting them.

[Glitterati]

90. I dare you

to post them on DeviantArt.

Post them everywhere.

Have fun.

[SunsetDreams]

92. I will..

[LunaSea]

99. Glitterati, you don't know shit about photoshop or photography

At least you've not demonstrated any.
I don't need to post anything anywhere, I make images for a living.
I dare you to show me some "very bad PS work" right here.

[Glitterati]

100. OK

Whatever you say.

I'm done with this idiotic battle you've devised for yourself. I refuse to participate.

[LunaSea]

107. Just say you're sorry and all will be forgiven.

If you'd just said "I think it's been Photoshopped", we might be having an interesting discussion about photo-retouching.

[Glitterati]

108. I'm not the least bit sorry

I'm right, you're wrong.

The only thing I'm sorry about is wasting my time trying to have a conversation with you.

[LunaSea]

115. Okay, prove it.

You've offered shadows you can't explain, around figures that there would be no reason to alter to change the message of the image.
Then you say "look around, they all look photoshopped" when again, there's no reason to alter those parts in order to change the message. You finally get around to saying the signs have been altered, with no proof this has happened. No original image for comparison.
No telltale tracks of the alteration, nor have you realized that changing the words on the paper would be a work of considerable skill if you truly examine the image.
By all means, show me where I'm wrong.

[Glitterati]

116. Not worth the effort

Obviously.

Go waste someone else's time. I've given you more than enough of mine.

[LunaSea]

117. Then I can only conclude...

That you really don't know shit about photoshop or photography.
And simply wanted to disrupt this otherwise interesting thread.

[Glitterati]

118. And, I can only conclude

that you have a closed mind.

I disrupted nothing. You, on the other hand.....

[Electric Monk]

105. +1, by the looks of it they're only marginally competent with MS Paint. nt

[Glitterati]

110. Nice

Are you always so friendly?

[Care Acutely]

119. attacks* against you are an "atrocity?"

My oh my. Drama much?

[Glitterati]

120. Yawn...

borrrrrrrrrrrrring...

[zonkers]

109. I feel like a juror in 12 Angry Men. I side with Glitterati!

It is an obvious photo shop to me. For the reasons you point out and a few other reasons. I'd be pulling my hair our if I were you.

[Glitterati]

111. Thanks

I hope you're ready for the attacks?

I stopped pointing out the issues because of the attacks. There's simply no reason to go on.

Hey, did you notice the guy next to the sunglasses guys that disappeared from the photoshopped picture?

[kestrel91316]

126. Oh yeah!! Because signs are not actual things that lots of different

Libyans might want to pass around and proudly have their own picture taken with.

Signs only exist in digital, not corporeal form. My bad.

[JDPriestly]

165. It's possible. And then that person or at least only one person provided all the white

cardboard. It looks like it is all of the same quality, the same shade of white.

I have never been to Libya. Maybe there isn't much variety in office supplies there.

[Glitterati]

42. Thank you

They are all very badly done. And it is a terrible shame to see this kind of garbage, especially when lives have been lost.

[SunsetDreams]

56. What is a terrible shame

is someone claiming that they are photo shopped without any real proof other than a few circles on a photo, and passing that off as proof. Most people who look at photos go into great detail. So far all I've seen is an attempt at denying the reality that the Libyan people have hearts just like us. Do you think the post was photo shopped in as well?

[Glitterati]

59. Sadly

I have no intention of trying to have a further conversation with you.

Do as you wish.

[SunsetDreams]

60. Nice try though...nt

[Glitterati]

101. Thank you

for being civil, but I'm done with this conversation.

[LunaSea]

71. Glitterati, you don't know shit about PS or photography.

You can believe whatever you like.

[SunsetDreams]

78. It seems that

"please post them everywhere" is what the real worry is. I wonder why. Any chance photos like this might soften the rhetoric?

[Glitterati]

95. Hahahahahahahahahahahahahaha!

Please post them anywhere you'd like.

Good luck.

[Glitterati]

86. Take my dare

upthread.

Please.

[CitizenPatriot]

88. I find it odd

that you announced that these are fakes, with no proof other than they look odd to you.

That is supposed to be enough for everyone here.

Do you get that you are expecting everyone to believe you, based on nothing but what you tell us you see, and then getting upset when people question you? So, it's okay for you to question the OP and Yahoo and Buzzfeed and everyone else who posted these, but no one here is supposed to question you. That's just strange

No one is going to be embarrassed by sharing photos that went viral already. What exactly do you fear that will be exposed as untrue, anyway? the Libyans don't really feel this way? What is it that you think will embarrass everyone?

[SunsetDreams]

89. short answer: it will serve to possibly soften the hard line rhetoric nt

[Glitterati]

93. I don't fear anything.

Not a thing.

I wasn't questioned....I was attacked.

Share these photos. Post them everywhere.

Good luck.

[SunsetDreams]

96. "Share these photos. Post them everywhere"

You keep saying that...

[Glitterati]

98. Yes

Have fun.

[JDPriestly]

114. MSNBC has reported that the demonstrations happened. I am not surprised at that.

The very bright white of the signs and the contrast between the writing and that white plus the similarity in the writing styles and the pen strokes are the reasons I thought the pictures were photoshopped. I guess I was wrong. Not the first time. Not suprised. It's a very positive sign if people are willing to demonstrate in this way.

[tblue37]

141. I have noticed that the sign that says (with THIS spelling),

“this is not the behavior of our Eslam” or the “Profit,” appears to be held in different photos by different Libyans. In some photos the sign is held by a boy, but in others it is held by an older man.

Now, they certainly could have been together, perhaps father and son, passing the sign back and forth between them, but I did notice that discrepancy between photos, and it really bothers me to think that if I had pointed it out, I would have been as ruthlessly attacked as Glitterati has been in this thread.

I do not think Glitterati is trolling at all. I think that he saw real issues with the photos and called them to our attention because all too often Photoshopped pictures have led to online embarrassment.

I can think of reasonable explanations for the iffy issues that the photos seem to have, but the possibility of Photoshopping is there and should at least be considered.

[Bradical79]

167. You owe everyone an appology

Your claim that the signs were deceptively photoshopped in has been proven wrong beyond a shadow of doubt in this thread through video evidence. All you've done is use false claims to distract from people making genuine statements. You clearly have absolutely no clue what you are talking about when it comes to photography and digital images. Though I don't make a living at it, I've done REAL digital photography before and had some images in galleries (and even used photoshop to enhance lighting, remove red eye, etc.). I could tell you were full of it, but there are a lot of people with no experience in these sorts of things who can be easily fooled by fake "experts". I know that Fox News, Creationists, and Conservative media in general does this sort of thing on a fairly consistent basis, but we should try for higher standards than the Glenn Becks of the world.

[joshcryer]

5. They have people on DU associating them with jihadist.

And al qaeda. It's fucking shameful. Those people know who they are and they disgust me.

[Swede Atlanta]

6. As a child I lived in Libya (before Gadaffi)

The Libyan PEOPLE were so generous, caring and respectful. So this does not surprise me. They know that in the big geo-political game, this attack presents a significant challenge to continued American support for democratization, reconciliation and normalization in their country. They are tired of suppression from a dictator and long for the ability to be treated with dignity and respect as part of a democratic nation.

I hope this for them.

[Aristus]

54. My father was stationed in Libya when he was in the Air Force in the late 1950's.

He said the Libyans, and the Bedouin people he met, were exceptionally kind, friendly, and hospitable. And my father was no kum-bah-ya type. For the rest of his life, he spoke with fondness and respect for the Libyan people.

[defacto7]

97. These are people I fought for

during the revolution. They are wonderful, reasonable people. Only support, only kindness.

I have had my doubts in the last six months asking myself whether I had done the right thing. I see these pictures and I know... It was right and worth it.

[DeSwiss]

7. Thank you.

I'll spread these pics far and wide.

- Love is all we need.........

K&R

[Yooperman]

64. What a wonderful video!

Thank you for sharing!

Peace

YM

[DeSwiss]

121. De nada

[Art_from_Ark]

164. Nice video, but...

There's something not quite right with the time

1:30 GMT in December (same as London time) would mean that all of Europe would be dark, yet the European countries with outside scenes were almost all light. On the other hand, Australia, Fiji, and East Asian countries were shown as being in the night, yet they would have been bright at that time. It's also interesting that Switzerland is being shown in darkness, but both Austria to its immediate east, and France to its immediate west, are shown with light skies.

[flamingdem]

10. Christine Amanpur is saying on CNN now that Libyans love Americans

in general. So happy to see these pictures!

[liberalla]

131. Richard Engle said basically the same thing on Rachel Maddow

and he said there was an "I'm sorry" protest by the people.

[Skittles]

11. now THAT is cool

yes indeed

[spanone]

17. k&r...

[Betsy Ross]

28. Tears here too.

Had to show the pics to my SO. Sent the link to my office so I can forward to the next person that makes an Islamophobic remark.

[Liberal_in_LA]

33. k&r

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Thanks, by the way, the more mature observers...

have pointed out that this was a very real minority of fanatics.

[reformist2]

43. Love is always more powerful than hate, if only people have the courage to show it.

[ProSense]

61. Those images are proof that diplomacy works.

Moving and powerful.

[defacto7]

68. The guy who is saying the picturs are photoshoped...

Is changing the name of the picture.

The original has the word ENHANCED in it.

The one he is posting has then name changed to remove the word ENHANCED from the picture.

This means no one is ENHANCING the photo without saying so.

Not true for the guy who is reposting saying it is "fake"

[Historic NY]

69. Many of the same people are in pictures 2,3,&4 you can picked them out...

even the guy you say is photoshopped.

[defacto7]

79. If they are in the same place when the pics are taken

I would suppose so.

[SunsetDreams]

94. Clarification:

I never made the claim that they were photo shopped. That claim was made by someone else without any proof.

The images were enhanced by the Media guy, and that clearly says that in the file name. The person making the claim ignores that. When photos are enhanced(enlarged), it can cause artifacts.

[Odin2005]

70. Bless them!!!

[davidthegnome]

74. I'm with you, SunsetDreams

It is things like this... moments that touch the heart, that give me hope for humanity and from time to time renew my faith in humanity.

I'm rarely moved to tears (the medication I'm on makes it absurdly difficult for me to cry) but if I could be, I would be. I never blamed the Libyan people for this... but I am glad, all the same, that they show such spirit, such humility and such compassion. It gives me hope.

[Vehl]

77. The attackers were the terrorists, not the Libyan people

What better way for Al Qauida to drive a wedge between the Libyan people and the West than attack Americans in Libya?
Republicans should use the grey matter in their heads to realize that this was not condoned by the Libyan population!

[yawnmaster]

85. In picture 2 you can see the guy taking picture 4 (though not simultaneously)...

not significantly photoshopped, if at all.

[JoePhilly]

147. You can also see the same people from a different angle ... also, the people in the

back are standing on something that puts them up higher. But you can see the are holding the same signs in both photos.

[Politicub]

103. Me, too

Issues are so much more complex than the right makes them out to be.

[lonestarnot]

106. Wow. Saddness.

[Lifelong Protester]

112. I am moved that they are out in the street

offering their sadness at this horrible act.

As I said on another post, I'm sure these folks are tired of their religion being used by zealots for religious purposes.

[tblue37]

142. This reminds me of the ":Sorry" signs posted on the Net by Americans who were

troubled by the invasion of Iraq and the abus eof its people following the 9/11 attack.

[ronnie624]

123. *

[patrice]

124. Sweet Libyans! Peace be with them!

[daybranch]

137. Romney stupid or weak

Is Romney so ignorant he cannot see what is going on or is he so afraid of the neocons calling him weak? They say he did not act Presidential, I say he did not act like a man. He sold out his soul to the devils ( unpatriotic billionaires working to buy the and bring our people to their knees)) and now he must read their script. He could not be so ignorant. His daddy spent too much o his prep school, so I guess he is just a spineless creature of highly funded public relations. Poor, Poor Mitt. So rich in goods, so poor in spirit.

[spayneuter]

143. Well, if they're genuine they should have no objection to the thugs being dealt with appropriately.

Don't all embassies have armed Marine guards? What the hell GOOD are they if they're not allowed to protect against an invasion of US territory (which is the de facto status of all embassies)? They should just go ahead and kill anyone who approaches with obvious intent to do violence and keep shooting as long as they keep coming.
Would anyone countenance people like those attacking, say, the Capitol in DC without demanding counterforce? I now I sure as hell wouldn't.

[thucythucy]

168. This wasn't the American embassy, which is in Tripoli,

it was an American consulate, in Benghazi. Consulates are generally smaller, with less security. Even so, there was a security detail at the consulate--two of the Americans killed were marines guarding the ambassador. Libyan security at the consulate also tried to protect the ambassador.

"During a 20 minute fire fight, Libyan guards positioned inside the consulate managed to hold the attackers off as they sprayed the building with bullets before hurling a bomb inside. In the carnage, Sean Smith, a foreign service information management officer was shot dead."

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2201780/Christopher-Stevens-death-US-ambassador-killed-attack-Libya.html#ixzz26S48rJsV

The Libyan authorities have arrested at least four suspects within 48 hours of the assault. They are also cooperating with an FBI team dispatched to investigate. And the Libyan president has apologized.

I think the Libyan government, from what I've seen anyway, is responding as best they can. And from all accounts the majority of the Libyan people are appalled by this atrocity.

[spayneuter]

169. Yeah, well there's way too much 'apologizing' and not enough killing thugs.

grr

[spayneuter]

144. The more I look, the less I buy it. The expressions on their faces don't match the 'sentiment'.

Sorry.

[SunsetDreams]

146. They are real

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021336211

[dorksied]

149. Video proves that the signs were NOT shopped. Nice try Glitterati, you're wrong... gonna apologize?

definitely was NOT shopped.

So, nice try Glitterati.

[Glitterati]

150. Proves no such thing

Please post your Photoshop credentials so we can review them.

[dorksied]

156. First, what of YOUR credentials? Seems to me you're just a troll.

Watch the video... unless they were shopped AND video edited, which I'd love to see you prove...

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021336211

[iamthebandfanman]

162. lmao

i thought you didnt need to be a photoshop expert to know photoshop work :p

so... that only applies to you or ?

"I do use Photoshop, daily. But I never claimed to be an expert.

Quite frankly, it doesn't take an expert to see the obvious Photoshopping going on in these photos. Just gullible people who refuse to accept the possiblity. "

[defacto7]

153. You actually believe

every person from every culture, society, religion, nationality, genetic pool, psychological experience, race, sex, language or economic strata.... have the same facial expressions or body language as people from Oklahoma? or anywhere else?

It simply is not the fact.

[spayneuter]

159. I've worked and spent significant time in over 40 countries, I speak 5 languages and yes,

I've observed that people of all cultures pretty much exhibit expressions and body language that comport with their mood and frame of mind. I find it strange you think it's otherwise. Perhaps you have no experience with other cultures, as is common with North Americans. (I'm not exactly 'from' Oklahoma, it's where parts of my family reside...and are rare...these days, Democrats)

[defacto7]

160. Well, Good for you!

That means you now can elaborate on your blanket statement. My experience is that you are incorrect. We speak 4 languages in my household and I can probably come up with close to 40 countries where I have lived if I count the ones that were only 4 to 6 weeks at a time, but that's my version of hearsay.

You see, I do have ample experience per my hearsay as you do your hearsay. That's my point. Blanket statements without elaboration are for manoeuvring opinion. My experience with people of the ME are very different than what you stated.

Why don't you tell us of your ME connections and elaborate on your understanding of Middle Eastern psychology. That would be very enlightening.

I am not pushing you on this for personal reasons, I don't/can't know you. But I am challenging your blanket statement because I think it's incorrect and manipulative. Prove me wrong.

The balance of proof is yours. No offence intended.

[Kali]

170. wow

a cop, an engineer, lived in 40 countries, 5 languages, defense expert, military genius

that is impressive

[ellie]

148. Aww, that's nice!

[Kablooie]

152. I hope this gets MSM play.

[KBlagburn]

155. Not Photoshopped. Everyone here has missed the OBVIOUS!!!

He posted a link to the "original pictures" to prove the photos in the OP had been shopped. Yet the original pictures show the same people, the same signs, the same crowd, the same location. If the original photos show all the same info as the shopped photos and vice versa, what was the purpose of the alleged shopping. The only reason to shop a photo is to change the purpose of the original photo. If the purpose does not change, then there is no reason to shop a photo. These are not shopped. I may not be an expert on photoshop but I can hold my on.

[stuntcat]

157. K&R!!!

Wow. We've shown the world how quick we'll turn any town we want into a war zone.

[defacto7]

161. Wow, as a general comment...

It is so amazing how much emotion both positive and negative this display as aroused in people... supportive, disbelieving, experiences, half truths, misinformation, love, kindness, blessings, hatred, anger even borderline sociopathic and passive aggressive.

Why is this so?

These are just pictures. What do they represent? What is the OP about?

To me it's just about sympathy or for some empathy. We don't know those people in the pictures, but they represent humanity, just like you and me.

If you can't see them because of the imperfections or your personal bias, see them for what they represent in the world.

[moondust]

163. Link to CNN video of this crowd and their signs.

The crowd scenes start at about 3:00.

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2012/09/13/libyan-govt-needs-to-control-weapons/

[jtuck004]

166. "Sorry Muslim people. There is a smiley man called Mitt Romney, and he does not represent us".

If anyone watched Richard Engals report, most of the demonstration is on a street mostly confined near the embassy, and only in a corner of Tahrir Square. (I would like such a public square here, but we would probably build condos on it). As they pan around you can see traffic moving, he says life is pretty much going on as normal except for the "small" group near the embassy.

He suggested that the learning that dictators had prescribed is mostly responsible for this, and thinks that more modernized education will begin to erode the conspiratorial beliefs that are driving the protesters.

That pretty much falls in line with the pictures above, that this is much smaller than the kinda glaring media coverage seems to show. It's still numerous across several countries, but at least in Egypt, and perhaps elsewhere, most people think there are more important things to think about.

That is the first hopeful thing I think I have heard in all this, even with what appears to have been a planned terrorist attack on our embassy that may have triggered or even fomented the protest.