Keep up the Isolating. Really.

[MineralMan]

When i looked in on Facebook this morning, there was a post by someone I know who lives in Wisconsin. That person was recounting a return to a local bar after it reopened. That person said that nobody in the bar wore a mask, but it was OK, because she only hugged "the regulars."

We're seeing lots of photos of people in crowded bars and restaurants, returning to "normal." They're not wearing masks. They're not standing 6' apart. They are back to their usual behavior, despite the COVID-19 virus still circulating widely.

I suggest staying away from people for an extended period of time, until a vaccine is available. I advise continuing to follow the guidelines we all know so well by now. Don't be sucked in by those who want so badly to return to "normal" that they ignore all safety precautions. What they are doing now is going to have an enormous impact on public health. They won't stay in those bars. They'll go right back into the rest of society while flouting all safety measures.

They are dangerous to your health. Keep avoiding them. They will cause a resurgence in cases of CV-19. That resurgence will soon be visible in statistics, I have no doubt. Maintain your vigilance.

That's my advice for this Sunday.

[Alliepoo]

1. I wholeheartedly agree!

[essme]

2. And it is good advice

My heart goes out to bartenders and servers that are really on the verge of homelessness. I feel exactly zero for the patrons that can afford to go out and eat right now. No, that's not true. I am disgusted because they will spread it to us given the opportunity.

[MineralMan]

20. Yes. People have to work and earn a living.

That can probably done more safely if precautions are taken. However, the bartender or server in places that are open but where patrons refuse to participate safely, can't protect against the stupidity of those they serve. It's not an enviable job right now, I think.

[essme]

31. a friend of mine- someone in the health profession

that counsels diabetics--- had a photo taken of her at a Mexican restaurant with one of those somberos on. She was not sitting near anyone visible, and the waiter had a mask on. She did not. I hope hoping to god that she took it off for the birthday photo only. It was outdoors, in SC.

[MineralMan]

34. People will get away with being incautious - until they don't.

Humans are not very good at doing things that are good for them, it seems.

[Tanuki]

100. I have an acquaintance who is a nurse practitioner who told me she is going

to take advantage of the current $80 round-trip airfare to
fly to another city to visit her 20-something kids. No special occasion, illness, or any other pressing reason to go now, and she had been out there to see them right before everything shut down, so only about 10 weeks ago. She has many elderly and otherwise infirm people in her practice, but got defensive when I tried to discuss the risks with her, saying that she felt she would be fine because she would be wearing a mask and that she doubted that there would be many people on the flight.

[wnylib]

145. A nurse practitioner, of all people, should know better.

[wnylib]

143. I would avoid all sit down

dining out. How can you eat and wear a mask at the same time? Same in a bar regarding drinking. As long as it is still necessary to wear a mask in public, it is not safe to dine (or drink) out.

Those people who do will spread the virus to their family and community.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. You might remind the person you know in Wisconsin

to get her affairs in order and be sure her will is up-to-date. Unfortunately, her funeral service probably will have to be postponed until some later date, but that gives her family plenty of time to plan something nice.

Seriously, going to a bar and hugging "only the regulars" is insane. Some people have to learn the hard way, I guess. I think Walz is letting things open too soon, but I won't be doing anything different from what I've been doing since early March - staying home and not going anywhere unless I absolutely have to.

And I did absolutely have to go somewhere last night - to the emergency vet in Golden Valley because one of my cats suddenly took sick. Sadly, he passed away from an aortic thromboembolism; there was nothing they could do for him. So I'm really bummed out this morning. The vet's office was well-equipped to handle the covid-19 situation, but their excellent procedures also meant I had to wait in my car and couldn't say goodbye.

I can't imagine how awful the similar situation for people with a sick human relative must be. Maybe your friend in Wisconsin should ask her family how they'd feel about not being able to say goodbye to her.

[MineralMan]

8. Unfortunately, she is a dyed in the wool Trumpster.

I don't really communicate with her. I see her posts in my feed, though. She wouldn't listen to me.

We're opening back up here in Minnesota, too, at least to some degree. I'm sure similar situations will become common here, but I won't be there to witness it.

Those who are rushing to return to what was normal mostly seem to be Republicans of one sort or another. Maybe if we all avoid contact with them until we are able to vote in November, there will be more of us around, in proportion.

[erronis]

57. "mostly seem to be Republicans of one sort or another." Or stupid or evil. Lots of overlaps there.

Knowing that someone is (r)epuglicon gives me a heads-up to stay far away - for many reasons. Fortunately in this corner of the country they are spread out pretty thin.

[LuckyCharms]

16. Velveteen Ocelot

I'm very sorry to hear of the passing of your beloved friend.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

26. Thank you. It was very sudden.

He was big and loud and purry and I'll miss him a lot.

[MineralMan]

33. I hate losing pets. Just hate it.

I know they won't live as long as I do, but I keep having them in my life. But, I hate losing them.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

44. Yeah, it sucks.

And I want them in my life anyhow.

[MineralMan]

48. One of our cats has suddenly remembered that

lap time with me is petting time. So, she waited very impatiently this morning while I sorted out the Sunday paper and then moved right in. It's good to have them with us, and awful when they are gone.

[ChazInAz]

84. Cats!

I have always had two cats in my household. Every single one of them has left treasured memories.
Right now, my Savannah Cat, Hastur The Unspeakable is failing. No one has been able to find what's wrong with him, he's been wasting away for a year now, and I fear his end is coming soon.
To me, he's always been my snuggle buddy and purr monster.
He'll leave a huge hole.

[MineralMan]

88. Yes, two cats is just right.

One per lap, more or less.

When we lose one, we wait a bit and then adopt another 6-8 week old kitten. I bring it into the house, drop it on the floor and let the other cat and the two dogs sort it all out. Our beaglish dogs love small animals, and the other cat can deal with the newcomer in its own way. Usually that means avoidance for a while, and then acceptance. The dogs, on the other hand, tend to sniff and lick a new cat for a couple of days and then ignore it from then on.

Kittens apparently know to ingratiate themselves with humans until the humans are properly trained.

[lark]

124. Yeah it sucks so bad.

My old kitty is doing better, but it's the small rally before the end. He's been my baby for 19 years. I'm really happy he's made it this far, the kids came over and said their good-byes to old neurotic sweet Basil last week. Hoping he will surprise us all, but I know to be grateful for what time we have left.

[crickets]

30. I am so sorry about your cat.

I know how hard it is to lose a beloved pet in the best of times, and it must be doubly so now.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

41. Thank you. It is hard.

And yet there are people who apparently don't care about losing their own relatives and friends as long as they can hang out at the bar with the regulars. I'm sitting at home grieving for my cat but at least I know I probably won't have to grieve for my friends and family members too, because they aren't doing stupid things like that.

[Scarsdale]

65. It is awful to lose a pet. I have

lost too many in my lifetime. All were special and loved. Sorry about your losing your big guy. Here is a funny story about the subject, if anything about it can be funny. I had to put my dog down, due to old age and infirmity. It had to be done for her sake. I was telling a friend about it, and started crying. My young son was there, and he very seriously added "I think Mom would have had an easier time putting one of US to sleep" Oh, there WERE times, believe me during their teenage rebellious years!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

67. That *is* funny.

Seriously, though, I love my cats more than I love most people. Whatever remaining fondness I still have for humans is wearing thinner than ever when I see people disregarding the health and lives of their fellow humans so they can get a beer or a haircut.

[mithnanthy]

80. I love my cats so much.

My fondness for some people is also wearing thin.

[Scarsdale]

96. At my Credit Union in Southern Wisconsin

they found it necessary to post a warning on the drive-up stations, "We are doing our best under very stressful conditions. Anyone finding it necessary to use foul language at one of our employees will face severe penalties. Up to and including CLOSURE of your account" What is wrong with people? I told my teller I think it is a disgrace for anyone to swear at them for doing their job.

[zeusdogmom]

105. Good for that credit union

[OMGWTF]

108. Credit Unions and local banks are the best. MOVE YOUR MONEY from the Wall St. Banksters

I SMH every time I see someone using a big bank, Wells Fargo bank especially -- which is run by out-in-the-open CRIMINALS who get off paying a puny fine for their continually ripping off their customers. Don't be a putz -- invest your money locally and it will stay local.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

153. Definitely! I've been using a credit union for almost 20 years

and I'll never go back to a big commercial bank. Better interest rates on accounts and CDs (though they suck pretty much everywhere these days), better customer service.

[JudyM]

115. I'm sure it's Democrats.

[Scarsdale]

118. Yeah, right!

I apologized to the teller for the rude customers who swear at them. No excuse whatsoever.

[zanana1]

152. But my hair!

My sister, who is almost phobic about Covid 19, only stays in her yard and when she goes inside she quickly washes her hands, wipes down all bathroom surfaces with Clorox wipes, then wipes down door handles and all flat surfaces.
With all that, her hair is getting long and unruly and she just made an appointment to get her hair done. I tried to talk her out of it, to no avail.
Vanity is stronger than safety.

[MissB]

58. I'm so sorry

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

82. Thanks.

[zeusdogmom]

107. Oh I am so sorry for your loss

Our pets are beloved family members and their passing is devastating. And I'm really sorry you couldn't be with him in his final moments.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

120. Thank you.

I keep looking over at his regular napping spot and he's not there.

[zeusdogmom]

128. Matches the empty spot in your heart

[peacebuzzard]

117. I am so sorry to hear about your sweet cat.

I truly am sorry.
I just lost my sweet 17-year-old kitty to renal disease complications which led to congestive heart failure. She was on IV fluids with me at home. I still cannot get over it, especially since I decided to rescue two cats a month after she passed: senior cats, but really not easy cats. I think they did not come from a good situation because they are mean-spirited and for now I have to keep them separate from my other 2 cats. And separate from each other.

But I am truly sorry for your loss. Sad it came at such a difficult time.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

121. I'm sorry you lost your kitty, too.

There's never a good time to lose an animal friend, but this situation sure doesn't make it any easier, does it?

[peacebuzzard]

122. It is never easy,

and now with home isolation, the loss is far more apparent, and I feel so bad for you. My sympathies.
This morning I thought so much about the pets I have lost over the years.

But now I am occupied with the new cantankerous senior feral cats. (lots of work!!)
At least the two old girls have some peace and space away from a crowded shelter.

[Dorian Gray]

141. So sorry about your kitty....

Terrible you couldn't be with her to say good bye. xoxo

[madaboutharry]

4. 100% spot on.

I don't understand people and their ability to disregard inconvenient information.

[MineralMan]

15. It's human nature. We aren't good at assessing the risks of

invisible things. We will do things to avoid those risks for some time, but then we will forget to do what we should do. We may not know anyone who has become ill or who has died - yet. We may feel just fine and not think about becoming ill. So, we might return to our social habits and behaviors and think, "It won't affect me..."

We're good at blocking things we don't want to think about, I guess.

[wnylib]

148. We're good at believing what we want to believe.

Trumpers are especially good at that, which is why he has so much success with them. It's also why they are so willing to believe that it is ok to mingle and socialize again.

[mokawanis]

5. Absolutely agree

My wife and I are staying home and only going out when we have to get groceries or have a medical appointment. We also do a daily walk but we are able to do that in a place where we know we won't encounter other people.

I wonder how long it will be like this. 3 more months? 6 months? A year or more?

[MineralMan]

10. You're being wise.

How long? I don't know. There will be a vaccine, probably sooner than some of us think. There's a real push by the developers to produce a working one, since it is an emergency situation. The human testing will be accelerated, I'm sure.

Until an effective vaccine is available, I think we'll all have to continue our cautious behavior.

[central scrutinizer]

61. Vaccine?

I wish I was more optimistic about there ever being a vaccine. Someone posted here a couple of days ago that there are no vaccines for SARS or MERS or other viruses of this type. Of course, those are under control and not nearly as contagious so there is less urgency and fewer researchers working on them. I’ve resigned myself to this mode of life for the rest of my life. But I’m privileged to be able to consider that. I have no debts and sufficient resources. I’ll be 70 in two weeks and have stable (I hope) retirement income. As long as I live until November so I can help vote out the crime family. I miss hugging my daughter and other family members. My bicycle and my garden are keeping me sane. I expect to eventually be infected. My affairs in order and my will is up to date. I’ve written down detailed information on all accounts for my daughter. My advanced directive and durable power of attorney are stuck on my refrigerator. I plan to use a sharpie and write DNR and DNI on my chest as I’m waiting for the ambulance.

[LastDemocratInSC]

69. A question: Has a vaccine ever been developed for a Corona virus?

Perhaps so but I've never heard of one.

[MineralMan]

74. There are some animal vaccines against coronaviruses, but no human

ones that I know of. There will be one, though, before too long, I suspect.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

119. They've been trying to come up with one for the common cold,

which can be caused by many different viruses, some of which are coronaviruses. One problem is that there are so many, and also that they mutate readily. And because colds are a nuisance but rarely fatal there probably hasn't been the level of motivation as for covid-19. SARS (2002) and MERS (2012) were caused by coronaviruses but have mostly gone away over time and I don't know whether was developed for them or that it was determined to be necessary. There are vaccines for canine enteric coronavirus and for feline infectious peritonitis, which is also caused by a coronavirus.

[snowybirdie]

6. You are So right

Each of us needs to access our own vulnerability. Stay safe all!

[gab13by13]

7. I keep posting this;(stolen)

This is the first Civil War where the rebels kill themselves.

[MineralMan]

12. Perhaps so.

[Gothmog]

150. Agreed

Link to tweet

[democrattotheend]

9. That doesn't make sense for most people

The purpose of shutting things down was to flatten the curve and give the healthcare system time to ramp up so it wouldn't be overwhelmed, not for everyone to stay isolated until there's a vaccine, which could be years away, or never.

If you're in a very vulnerable group and are able to afford it, maybe your advice is good, but for most people, it doesn't make sense and isn't realistic.

I don't understand why people seem to be moving the goalposts - when this whole thing started I remember President Obama and others tweeting those graphs about flattening the curve to avoid what happened in Spain and Italy, where the healthcare system got overwhelmed and people were denied treatment. So far that hasn't happened here, fortunately. I'm not saying we are ready to open everything up right away, but the idea of staying away from everyone until there's a vaccine that may or may not ever come into existence is neither practical nor worth it, except perhaps for the most vulnerable.

[MineralMan]

11. People will do as they think best, I suppose.

Personally, I believe that will lead to at least a million deaths from CV-19. I am hoping not to be one of them.

The virus has not gone away. It has not lost its ability to infect people. Do what makes sense to you, but keep your distance from me, please.

[democrattotheend]

40. Since you'll be staying home, I won't be a threat to you

Not that I plan on going out to bars any time soon anyway. But I'm not waiting two years or more to see my family and friends or go to a restaurant or get a haircut. I'm being extra careful for now because I just found out I'm pregnant, but I still have to go to doctors' appointments for that, and fairly soon I imagine that even if my boss lets me keep working from home (he probably will), at some point I will have to resume going to court and mediations. I don't have the luxury to stay home for years on end even if I wanted to. If you do, that's great, and I promise I won't come to your house and get in your face. Unlike some asshole Gen-X Trumpsters, I won't get in your face at the grocery store either, or berate store clerks for asking people to wear a mask. But I don't understand why the goalposts have changed, when the original intent of the stay at home orders was to prevent the hospitals from being overwhelmed.

[barbtries]

138. the reason the goalposts have been changed

is because the original plan was not followed. Staying away from people should have been done in concert with massive testing and contact tracing. It wasn't done.

We probably could have opened up cautiously a long time ago if ALL of the measures required for mitigation were followed, but they were not. The risk remains and we still don't know how prevalent it is.

It's called a massive failure of leadership.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

14. There's a big difference between carefully restoring some services

and businesses while taking necessary precautions versus going to bars without any regard for social distancing or other common-sense procedures. We haven't really flattened the curve, we've just suppressed the stupid for a couple of months. If idiots are going to run out to their favorite watering hole and hug the regulars, all of our attempts at curve-flattening will turn out to be for nothing.

[crickets]

32. +1

[democrattotheend]

43. I agree it's too early to be crowding bars and hugging strangers

But I also don't think it's realistic to demand that nobody go to bars or restaurants or get a haircut until there's a vaccine that could be years away or never come.

[erronis]

60. I seem to remember reports of healthcare systems being overwhelmed, especially NYC.

I have a relative who works with homeless shelters in NYC. It's been draining.

[democrattotheend]

132. They never got overwhelmed the way they did in Italy

It got to the point where the workers were utterly exhausted and couldn't give as much care and attention to patients as they wanted, but they never had to ration ventilators, thank goodness.

[TheFarseer]

97. Thank you

Isolating until there’s a vaccine is insanity. That could be years or never.

[Celerity]

126. +100000

[uponit7771]

130. Or a federated TTQ like other countries were tons of its citizens aren't dying along with economies?

[stillcool]

113. if that whole testing/tracing thing...

had happened, like they do at the White House...state governments would know who had what where, and act accordingly. We the people in this country don't matter enough, nor care enough to keep ourselves safe.

[uponit7771]

129. +1, anyone else notice these post throughout DU now totally skipping over a federated TTQ process

... that Red Don was supposed to get going?

[Celerity]

125. +100000

[a la izquierda]

142. Thank you for a sane response.

Life is short. There is no guarantee that we all get to live long lives and die in our beds at 100. My partner lives on another friggin' continent and I've not been able to hold him or see him for 6 months. I've been stuck in my house with my estranged partner for months, which has taken a grave, grave toll on my mental health (despite us getting along well). I haven't seen my sisters or my parents (who live in the next state over) since December. I haven't been able to hug my friends who've experienced loss.
To think that we must do this until there's a vaccine is madness because there may never be one. I wear a mask when I go out, I stay as far from people as I possibly can when I shop. I will go to my local pub after the initial rush of people thins out a bit and I will wear a mask and stay as far away from people as possible.

[dalton99a]

13. "The regulars" might kill you or someone in your family

https://www.latimes.com/california/story/2020-05-16/coronavirus-mothers-day-church-service-butte-county

Person with coronavirus attends Mother’s Day church service, exposes 180 in Butte County
By Alex Wigglesworth
May 16, 2020

After a person who attended an in-person religious service on Mother’s Day tested positive for the novel coronavirus, public health officials in Butte County issued a strongly worded warning to residents not to speed too quickly through the reopening process.

The person received a positive test result the day after the service, which had more than 180 attendees, officials said Friday in a news release.

Gatherings of any size remain prohibited, even in counties that are reopening more quickly than the rest of California. But the organization that held the service chose to open its doors despite the rules, exposing the entire congregation to the coronavirus, officials said.

Butte County is one of 22 counties that has certified to the state that it meets the conditions for additional businesses to reopen.

[MineralMan]

22. Exactly. That kind of behavior in society

will create a second wave of this disease. It's almost guaranteed. I predict we will see the results of this premature, unplanned and unregulated reopening in statistics soon. I don't know if even that, though, will lead to more careful behavior.

[Brainfodder]

17. Roger that, 10-4!

Since week before St. Pat's for me.



Good luck!

[MineralMan]

23. Thanks. I'm being careful, for sure.

[justhanginon]

18. Agree wholeheartedly. As an older guy with virtually all

of the exacerbating problems i've only been out twice since late February. Fortunately retired so no real need to go out and feel sorry for those who must. Once to my little post office to mail a package, only one person behind the counter and once for an early senior shopping morning to get some groceries, yes impatience took over. Really stupid because then I was worried the next two weeks about exposure. My kids are taking care of the grocery thing, delivering them to me on the front porch, no hugs dammit, I so miss the hugs. And I did catch holy hell for my little shopping trip.

[Stuart G]

19. Well stupid is indeed stupid..I have had pneumonia more than once.

..If you have had it, like Cuomo, you never, never want to have it again..NEVER!!!!

These idiots think and are sure,,...."It ain't going to happen to me."
___________________________________________________________________________________

Like crossing in the middle of a very busy main street with lots of cars going in both ways.. If the street is extremely busy, we go to a stop light, and wait for the .."green light." We know what the results can be if the car doesn't see us, or if cars are going very fast..(how many times on a very busy expressway, do you see people crossing the expressway?)

..Idiots in the bars, and on the beach, are totally sure "It ain't going to happen to me". Well, it might and could, and you really don't want to go there..cause it kills people...Yes, many, many, people.. Tens of thousands of people in the U.S.A.

[MineralMan]

25. It IS going to happen to them. That kind of behavior

is exactly what the virus needs to continue spreading. So, some who go to crowded bars or restaurants or other events are going to become ill, and will doubtless infect others.

It's inevitable.

[Stuart G]

35. Yes, you are correct. It's inevitable..

Back in the early 50s, 51 -54..?? There were polio epidemics. ...When word got out at the very beginning of one, people did isolate and stay home ..There were many pictures in newspapers and TV. (early TV) of people having to live in "iron lungs" for the rest of their lives..You really did not want to get that..

...All that ended in 55 (not sure of date) when Jonas Salk came up with a "polio vaccine." After a few years or more, after everyone started taking the vaccine, the disease disappeared. I got the vaccine very early because someone at summer day camp had it and we all got it that went to that day camp.

...These idiots don't know the risk. That is the kind of behavior that spreads the disease

[MineralMan]

39. Yes, the polio thing in the early 50s was a real eye-opener.

For me, at least, it was. Now, polio has been pretty much eradicated, along with a number of other diseases. We can do that, but we have to participate in the process and try not to get those illnesses until there is protection against them.

[erronis]

79. I'm sure that polio thing was just a hoax to allow the gummint to get more control!!!!

I don't know how to put those emojis into the title....

[mr_lebowski]

98. I'm about to learn ya then :)

https://www.w3schools.com/charsets/ref_emoji.asp

Click the try it button, then copy/paste the html code that starts with ampersand and ends with semi-colon.

I will display 🌮
I will display 🌮

Both the decimal (aka all numbers in the code) and the hex code (letters and numbers) will work on DU.

Don't use the font size tags, those don't.

Enjoy 😎

That was 128526; w/o the space.

[erronis]

103. Many thanks! 🌞

Now I need to collect 200 or 300 of my favorites to spatter everywhere. (And I had problems memorizing the ASCII codes....)

[Habibi]

135. Trying it too: 🗽

Neato, thank you! 🐱

[NickB79]

21. In rural Minnesota it's the same thing

People on Facebook are jubilant thinking they'll be able to go back to normal again. It's terrifying to think what's coming.

[Stuart G]

24. Too stupid to know that they are stupid..!!

[MineralMan]

27. Well, so far, rural areas have not been hard hit.

They're behind the infection curve, but they are the next focus of infection, I think.

We'll see. But foolish behavior is going to kill many people. The statistics will tell the tale.

[NickB79]

55. My mom works at Jennie-O. They had dozens infected

She still hasn't stopped visiting my elderly grandparents or other family. This week her, my sister and her 3 kids went up to Fargo to go shopping. Even posted a picture of themselves proudly smiling and enjoying lunch in a Mexican restaurant. I can't believe how much they don't care.

Ever feel like you got all the intelligence in the family?

[MineralMan]

64. Meat processing plants and nursing homes.

Those two things are going to be the focus of the next wave of the spreading of CV-19.

They're everywhere, especially in more rural areas.

[Salviati]

75. Rural counties have had the highest growth rate of deaths for at least the last two weeks.

https://www.usnews.com/news/healthiest-communities/articles/2020-04-30/coronavirus-cases-deaths-growing-at-faster-rates-in-rural-areas

Tick tock

[MineralMan]

77. Yes, they have.

And yet, they are still the ones that are seeing the most flouting of safety precautions. i don't think the stats are going to be very pretty in the weeks to come.

[crickets]

28. Wise advice.

"The regulars" are just as likely to infect you as anyone else. I feel sorry for the people working those bars. The people going to bars to hang out are living in a fantasy world, and reality will be harsh when it hits. *sigh*

[MineralMan]

29. People trust people they know. So, they don't think those people

will make them sick. It's a matter of not understanding how a viral epidemic works. We're familiar with the flu, of course, but people with the flu have symptoms you can see, so you can avoid them. With CV-19 an asymptomatic person can easily transmit the virus.

"The regulars," as you say, are not safe just because they are your tavern friends. Not at all.

[Butterflylady]

36. Until the experts tell me it's ok

I will stay sheltered. Groceries and doctors only. I can get everything else that I need delivered.

[Stuart G]

46. Yesterday, I went to the doctor's office for a visit..When he came in to see me, he had on

the most complete and strongest mask that I have ever seen..and he did not take it off during the visit. Never took it off..
I walked into the building with a mask, and kept it on in the waiting room..When he came in, I took it off. At the entrance to the building, they demanded a mask, and required you to answer questions.. We are now in a different world and in a different time..

[MineralMan]

72. My wife had a teleconference with her physician.

She had her annual physical canceled by the clinic and needed a renewal on her meds. So, they set up a telemedicine session. She had her temperature and pulse oximeter readings ready to share. Her doctor, who is also my primary care doctor, was pleasantly surprised that she had that info available.

So, she got her prescriptions renewed, and will have her physical sometime later.

[tavernier]

37. Absolutely.

Fortunately I’m lucky because my community is very much into isolation and quarantine. We are a series of small islands and our population would be wiped out quickly if we didn’t. We have wonderful help from law-enforcement keeping our roads closed down, as well as marine patrol for the numerous boats from Miami who are trying to come here daily. Not sure why they are intent on infecting us, but we are certainly all doing our part in following the rules and listening to the right advice of the medical experts. Yes our numbers have stayed level and we have been allowed very carefully and for LOCAL RESIDENTS ONLY to open certain parks and open air restaurants as well as pick up and delivery of food. Some barbershops and salons are opening but with such strict rules that I laugh to see what those haircuts and dye jobs will look like, lol.

[yortsed snacilbuper]

38. I live one house away from a church and can see cars in the parking lot,

This is the first time in about a month I've seen any action there.

don't know if they are wearing masks and staying six feet apart?

Maybe sky daddy will protect them?

I'm a free thinker, I'll depend on science.

Hope they don't spread the trump virus to the rest of us though?

I want to be around to vote for Joe in November.

Good advice MM.

[MineralMan]

42. I hope churches don't suddenly decide to reopen in large numbers.

Jebus won't protect them. Of that I'm certain.

[roamer65]

47. I do.

Then they will learn about natural selection.

[MineralMan]

51. I wish ill on almost nobody.

So, I hope churches don't return to their normal behavior.

[roamer65]

52. That may be what it takes for the them to have the "epiphany".

Sadly, these people only learn when something impacts them personally.

I feel bad for the others that they will hurt by their selfishness.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

93. I am listening right now to the live online sermon of a Lutheran pastor

(the reason I'm doing it has nothing to do with my religion, which I really don't have; it's from Mindekirken in Minneapolis, where I am taking Norwegian courses), and she is just frying Trump's ass wrt the pandemic. She has a strong Norwegian accent but her message is loud and clear. Today is Syttende Mai, the Norwegian Constitution day. Norway had a bad experience with the Nazis, and without naming names the pastor is comparing the way Americans are being sacrificed to the policies of Nazi Germany.

Not all churches are full of Trumpist nutballs.

[MineralMan]

95. You're right. I had forgotten the date.

My wife's mother comes from Norwegian immigrant stock. She attended Mindekirken from time to time and was a donor to that church. She knew very little Norwegian - just childhood things learned from her grandmother, but always felt a strong influence from it.

For her, I learned the Norwegian table grace from YouTube videos and could say it with a proper Norwegian accent. I'm good at mimicking speech patterns and accents. The first time I said it was a surprise, and it made her cry. She said I sounded just like her grandfather.

Small things.

[roamer65]

45. "The meek shall inherit the earth"

That’s my quote for the day.

[hurple]

49. Just one problem

A vaccine most likely will not be available for years. Self-isolation cannot realistically be maintained for that period. Not at the level needed. And especially when a person still has to work and is expected in the workplace.

I am scared to death of what happens to me when my job decides work from home is over and it's time to go back to the empty buildings. At least my "boss" is one of the governors who's been handling this the right way.

[MineralMan]

53. Vaccine development has come a long way in the past decade.

We had the complete genome for this Coronavirus very, very quickly. That's something that wasn't even available not too long ago.

We also understand the mechanisms of viral infections better now than before at the cellular level.

In reality, I expect a large, limited public release of a working vaccine by the first of the year. That will serve as a major human trial. Which vaccine will be used? I don't know. There are many in early testing stages right now. But, that initial public release will probably be accompanied by massive production of the vaccine that is released. So, if it is effective and safe, a population-wide vaccination drive could probably take place in the spring of 2021.

That's my guess, anyhow.

I'll be lining up as soon as I possibly can, and would be very glad to participate in the first public trial of whatever vaccine candidate is selected. Yes, indeed.

[DesertRat]

112. Even with the very optimistic view of widely available effective vaccine by early next year

That means isolation from family and friends throughout the upcoming fall and winter holidays. I hope it doesn't come to that.

[Celerity]

140. From everything I have read and studied, this is not realistic, sorry.

In reality, I expect a large, limited public release of a working vaccine by the first of the year.

here is a good starter article


How Long Will a Vaccine Really Take?

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/04/30/opinion/coronavirus-covid-vaccine.html




this is probably the fastest possible, and this is with major, MAJOR luck across multiple fronts and is an emergency vaccine, and involves guinea pigging front line healthcare workers, which is a crazy gamble, IMHO



only way to reduce that time frame (and it still falls short of yours) is to hope they can make a brand new type of vaccine, an mRNA vaccine. which is highly unstable and has never been made before

here is what we are working against on a historical basis





I think the far more likely hope is to have mitigation drugs sooner

[spinbaby]

50. I hear you

I’m doing curbside pickup and staying the hell away from people. It’s easier for me than most because I’m lucky enough to have a nice house with a yard, a walkable neighborhood, and a steady retirement income. Plus, I’m an introvert who enjoys being alone. But I know people who are having a very hard time with this, both financially and personally.

[yonder]

85. +1. Being comfortable with ones self

is a big plus in my book, even more so now.

[CivicGrief]

54. The problem is you may not be able to avoid people like this, and they may even be the civil

servants you depend on.

I live in a purple town about 50 miles north of NYC, and last night was an alarming eye-opener. A few firefighters rent a house in my neighborhood and have been having weekly parties with many guests. Normally, I don't care about this, but in a pandemic it is utterly irresponsible. A few different neighbors called the police, but the responses show exactly what is wrong. Not enough people are taking this seriously, and many of these people or in positions where you expect and require level heads.

Here are a few of the things that resulted from neighbors reporting the parties to the police:

1. The police are friends with them and do nothing but joke around with them, if they come at all.
2. The police recommended we call the fire department, since they were burning a big fire.
3. Firetrucks showed up three times to joke with them as well (more friends).
4. Early this morning firetrucks drove by one of the neighbors who called in last night and honked the horns on the truck.
5. When this neighbor called the police to report this, they were rude to her.
6. Police dispatcher says firefighters and police don't wear masks or need to since they work together (what about the other party guests?).

Things are crazy, and the crazy are often in charge.

[MineralMan]

59. I'll do my best.

I've been working at home since 1974, so I'm used to being more isolated than most people. My wife, too, is a work at home person. We see very few people socially, and none since this pandemic got here. We do shop when we must, but follow every possible precaution.

My interactions with others is very limited. Now, it's even more limited, and will remain so for quite some time, I think.

[orangecrush]

56. Good advice.

[Efilroft Sul]

62. Saw one of my hometown friends on Facebook going to a WV restaurant and celebrating being out.

No mask. No social distancing. No common sense.

The fark? She's a registered nurse. Who treats patients in senior care facilities.

[MineralMan]

63. It's a lot of stupid people out there.

Trouble is that you can't recognize them on sight.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

66. USA doing kind of well now with isolating. Divide daily New cases by Active Cases. US is about 2%

Only the (detected) active cases can be considered infectious and they are a proxy for the actual active cases including undetected ones which might be 3 to 20 times detected. I think 5x is perhaps most likely. The doubling times associated with the rate of increase is only doubling of Active cases. So if a place has lots of recovered cases, the overall infected numbers may not climb steeply. Mexico has a lot of recovered cases, but I suspect their hidden undiscovered Active case load is higher by a rate greater than most places.

2% is quite good really. Places like Brazil (11%+), Mexico (25%), Chile (10%), India (9%) and Peru (7%) are blowing up. The compounding effect makes a 10% per day rate very alarming.

At 25%, the doubling time is about 3 days.

At 10%, the doubling time is about 7 days.

At 2%, the doubling time is about 35 days.

Not too bad, people of the USA and some governors. No thanks to Donald "Open her up" tRump.

Minnesota is 18% (doubling time 4 days). Wisconsin is 9%+. North Carolina is nearly 8%. Mississippi 7%. Texas is a little under 5%. Virginia 4%.

[MineralMan]

68. That's interesting, but like all stats on this, it's a look backwards.

This opening business has not affected the statistics so far, but it will soon. We'll always be looking back at the numbers, because there's no way to look forward, except by speculation.

My speculation is that the rush to "normalcy" is going to end up changing the picture a week or two from now. We'll see, of course.

[crickets]

90. Unfortunately, I am afraid you're right.

Any optimistic numbers we have now are because of efforts from two weeks ago. Some areas are about to see a spike in the infected and dead. It's so frustrating because this entire situation did not have to happen this way. We could have tamped this down so hard at the very beginning, changing the entire landscape of what we're dealing with, and didn't.

It's criminal. I want to see people charged and sentenced for this. There's no excuse for this level of avoidable death and misery.

[MineralMan]

92. Absolutely. Given what we knew in late January, the US should have

shut down hard. It didn't. So, now we have more illness, more deaths, and more misery because we have more people and less order.

What appears to be happening now is that we also have less caution. I fear we are about to get slammed in a way we never anticipated. We are not good at self-discipline here and we reject control by our government. So, it's still the Wild West in most of the country.

I'm afraid we are going to pay dearly for that as a nation. I'm hoping to ride it out, but who can say?

[Warpy]

70. Most people can't live like that.

We're a social and tactile species. Those of us who can cope with being hermits are few and far between.

Yes, they'll spread the virus around and some of them will die. However, isolation was never a long term strategy, it was a short term one to buy time to ramp up supplies and get organized and maybe even come up with a viable treatment or two. The Feds and the GOP states wasted that time.

What remains to be seen is whether states like mine, where there is a mandatory mask in public order in place, fare much better than those states where people just rush back to normal.

Retail opened yesterday and stores reported very little traffic, probably because savings have run out and nobody's got money for anything but food and bills, so expect some places to open and then shutter for good.

The shutdown of everything but groceries, gas stations, and a few other essential businesses here lasted 52 days. It obviously worked here in the city, where cases are declining, but people have pretty much reached their limit. The big problem in this state is the epidemic among the Navajos and the rural counties the rez borders.

[MineralMan]

76. There is a difference between "living like that," and

heading to the local watering hole and hugging the regulars.

Those who can maintain the masking and avoidance behaviors are going to have a better chance of getting though this without becoming infected. Those who can't won't. I'd say it's a matter of choice, really. I know what I'm choosing.

As for your strict state/loose state test. We will have some statistics on that in a few weeks. I suspect they will show the results we should expect them to.

[Warpy]

110. Do notice the word "can't" instead of "won't."

For many people, maybe even the majority, this is not a choice.

If bars and restaurants stay closed, they'll just meet at the homes of friends and neighbors. People need contact. They will get it one way or another.

2 months on in many states, people are really starting to crack. There is a massive mental health crisis out there and you're going to see a huge increase in acting out and divorces because of it.

My governor seems to be using the San Francisco 1918 playbook. They did rather well there, missing the deadliest second wave of the flu. Standards were relaxed somewhat the following year, so they did get the slightly less deadly third wave.

There is just so much confinement alone that human beings can stand, and we've pretty much exceeded that.

[2naSalit]

71. I agree!

It is going to end up looking like Mother Nature's revenge on those who ignore most rules and laws in whatever ways they can get away with, in their minds.

So it will be tourist season in a couple weeks, would be getting started right about now but we're only in phase 1 of reopening so NPs are still closed or entrances in MT are still closed. It seems like 30 - 60% of the folks I see during my outings are wearing masks, some wearing gloves, but they are doing their best to keep their distance. Most are respectful of distancing. There are taped markers on the floors in stores, haven't seen one-way aisles yet but I go to a rather small city to go to the store.

But I saw a hair dresser's place open last week. The governor says he'll see what the scene is before deciding around 6/1 as to whether other businesses can open and other restrictions might be eased. He's being cautious while trying to keep the peace with the red crowd, and doing quite well, we're second in the country for keeping a low affect in cases and deaths. There's a 14 day quarantine order for anyone entering the state, with some exceptions but few of those.

The issue will be when the tourists show up starting next month. Then we will start all over again.

I am glad I have recently exited the workforce, I am working a vegetable garden in the yard this summer and enjoy the things I have.

[iluvtennis]

73. Very good advice MineralMan - thanks. nt

[MineralMan]

78. Take good care!

[musicman65]

81. Since I gave up

music for the rest of the year,,,all I want now is a haircut,,,then case closed

[MineralMan]

83. I've been in training for missing haircuts

for years. I get one every four months or so. Now, I'm ready to revert back to my pony tail days from the early 1970s.

I can keep my beard in check by myself, but my hair will just have to grow out on its own, since I can't see the back of my head. We have lots of hair ties, though, so when it's long enough, I can just do the pony tail thing again. I won't be in a barber's chair any time soon.

[Dream Girl]

86. Maybe they think only black people get it?

Seriously, I do wonder how race plays in their assessment of risk,

[MineralMan]

89. Who knows what they think?

I don't. In Minnesota, the news keeps telling us that 80% of the deaths are of people who formerly lived in congregate living facilities. That I can easily imagine, given the close quarters and illnesses common in those.

What people don't seem to understand is just how sick you can get from this virus and still survive. It's a very nasty illness.

[BarbD]

87. Anarchy is now the name of the game.

This is what happens when leadership fails. It didn't have to be this way, but this is our unfortunate reality.

We play with the cards we are dealt.

I'm pretty sure I contracted Covid in late February from a choir member who had just returned from Paris. The day after rehearsal found him in the local walk-in clinic with a 104 temp. My greatest concern was giving this to my daughter who is a cancer survivor with weak lungs. So, I self quarantined and self medicated with oranges, lemons and honey.

My oldest daughter is on the front lines as head nurse for a Connecticut Hospital. She says: "It is brutal on the front lines of this pandemic. None of us in healthcare, have ever seen anything like this. And we will not see an end in sight for awhile."

One of my granddaughters is going to give birth to my first great grandchild any day. My third daughter is a bartender trying to keep the restaurant going taking curbside orders. The situation is frustrating and made more so by Trump and his minions with their heads up their asses.

Everyone's lives have been turned upside down. No, we will never see normal yesterday again. It is what it is.

Me? I get out of breath just taking out the garbage, but I am determined that I will hang around until November when I will vote -- if it is the last thing I do.

[MineralMan]

91. It does sound like you might have had it.

[duforsure]

94. People can take their pick ,

Wear a regular mask preventing getting it, or prevent spreading it, or maybe end up having to be put into the hospital and on a ventilator, or worry you won't make it . Nearly 90,,000 deaths a hoax? When the cases surge its their fault , and the people allowing this to worsen. There should be regulations helping contain the spread of this virus, or more will get it, which will again hurt the economy even more.

[Kali]

99. yep, staying away from other people and washing your damn hands is the best strategy for avoiding it

(and any number of other communicable diseases as well)

[MineralMan]

101. There you go. That's what I plan to keep doing.

I hope it works.

[ismnotwasm]

102. I'm staying the hell away from them

We were talking at work, my hospital is down to 7 Covid patients, which is fabulous.

We did it, here in Washington we flattened the curve, not entirely but significantly

What we are expecting now, it frequent bumps up, and I live in Seattle were the resistance to social distancing and mask wearing isn’t as bad as other places.

[C Moon]

104. And many of those people are "A" personality types, so they'll push themselves on you.

[progree]

106. Hospital responds to nurse caught at crowded bar (Wisconsin), 5/15/20

Hospital responds to nurse caught at crowded bar (Wisconsin), 5/15/20

Wisconsin bars were packed with people almost immediately after the state's supreme court struck down the governor's stay-at-home order on Wednesday. Videos from several bars showed patrons enjoying a night out after more than a month of isolation ... In one video, taken by a local TV station, a nurse is seen sitting with other people at a bar without a face mask on.

That nurse, K... , shared her name and profession when the news crew began filming her. "I have a toddler at home and I'm a full-time nurse. It's been very stressful and hard to go out and be with my friends and family at the bars," K... told the news crew at Limanski's Pub in West Allis, which reopened on Thursday, WGN reports.

When asked if she was worried, K... said, "I don't think the risk presents any higher than going to a grocery store."

https://news.yahoo.com/hospital-responds-nurse-caught-crowded-153202178.html

In the above, I ellipsed out the name because she apologized. Also, I appreciated that the hospital where she worked expressed major displeasure at her behavior

Nurse says she regrets going to packed Wisconsin bar without mask, Chicago Sun Times, 5/15/20
https://chicago.suntimes.com/2020/5/15/21260633/nurse-milwaukee-tv-bar-without-mask-stay-home-order-lifted-wisconsin-supreme-court

[BlancheSplanchnik]

109. Absolutely correct.

[DesertRat]

111. I agree that it's too way early to be crowding bars, but

Last edited Sun May 17, 2020, 03:06 PM - Edit history (2)

my husband and I won't be isolating until there's a vaccine. That could take years.

We'll carefully keep our eye on the virus activity in our area. Currently there are no new cases in the community where I am now.

We will continue to be very cautious but we will see family and slowly start going out. We'll probably go out to eat next month at a restaurant with a masked server, an outdoor patio and widely spaced tables.

Starting June 1st, the yoga studio I previously went to is going to offer small classes in a park, 6 ft apart, masks optional. I can't wait for that.

Later this summer we will get together with small groups of few than 10 of family and friends on the patio/yard.

And of course it depends on how prevalent the virus is where you live.

We need to be smart and cautious but my husband and I aren't going to spend a year or more locked away from life and loved ones.

We will wear masks and practice physical distancing, but we don't intend to continue isolating ourselves.

[Heartstrings]

114. We are just on the brink of opening up in my area of WI.

Currently we are still under the “safer at home” restrictions that were overturned in the Supreme Court last week. Our mayor reinstated them, for how long remains to be seen. My daughter is a server and has a mandatory meeting to go to this evening with her employer. We’re presuming it’s to discuss protocol for the opening. We don’t know as there is no protocol, none! The republicans dropped the ball and ran....She’s terrified!

[miyazaki]

116. No one can convince me, we aren't gluttons for our doom.

- The Indigo Girls

[lark]

123. I agree, also only go places where people are self distancing.

Leave immediately if not. FL opened it's restaurants to 25% capacity, but a lot of small restaurants have not opened their floors for seating and this is true of the 2 mom and pops we frequent. We won't be going inside a restaurant anytime soon. Last night when J went to get our Sat. sushi, the place, which even last week had 4 people waiting for take out, had 20! Everyone socially distanced, the staff texted when the meals were ready. Most wore masks, but not all, but everyone socially distanced. Hubby waited in his truck.

[Marrah_Goodman]

127. Those who don't want to isolate or wear masks..

.. They should spend 24 hours in a Covid ICU.

[diverdownjt]

131. MM...I am so with you on this....

"Not gonna do it...wouldn't be prudent!"

[onecaliberal]

133. I'm sorry about your kitty. 💔

So many humans are awful. It’s been difficult to grasp the extent of their emptiness.

[PatrickforO]

134. Especially for we older people who are at high risk.

Good advice.

[Celerity]

136. +100000

That has always been my stance, it is when some try to universalise it for ALL age cohorts on a semi-permanent basis (ie. usually posited as 'until a vaccine comes out', which may not be for years) that I seriously diverge. I is simply impossible to lock down everyone for what could be years.

If I was high risk and/or much older, then hell yes, I would isolate for the duration. I am not any of that, however, and I also do not live in the US (we live in Sweden, in inner Stockholm, so right in the epicentre of the biggest COVID-19 experiment on the planet.) I was born in 1996, am a female in superb shape, and I already (as has my wife) had the virus and are Roche-tested (100% accurate for the presence of) antibody positive. We had zero symptoms as well, it did not make us ill in the slightest, and we DID self isolate for over 2 months and still were exposed somehow.

be safe!

[Ace Rothstein]

151. It makes sense when you go back and look at one of those 'how old are you?' threads here.

This website skews way older than the general population and a lot of posters don't need to rely on an income from work.

[Celerity]

154. yep, the last one had almost 500 respondents & only 3 of us under 25 years of age (and the other two

never post that I recall and were teens) Barely any were under 35yo even.

I am a force of one, lololol.

I try to get my friends to post, but almost none are yanks and don't give a toss about US politics other than they hate Trump.

If it wasn't for the 2 years I spent reading for my MBA in Los Angeles (I was born there, but parents moved back to London when I was under 2), I doubt I would post here. My wife swears she will never live in the US again and wants me to renounce my citizenship, but I am hanging on until I vote. I am trying to switch my registration to Miami (have a cousin in Brickell) from SoCal so my vote actually means something. If Trump wins, it's gone, as my father already offered to pay the fee (it is higher now than it used to be, $2,350)
I am so done with it if Rump wins and the Rethugs hold the Senate, and even worse, they pull the House back. Get out whilst the getting is good, dog only knows what price and restrictions they will try to place on renunciation in the future. I also hate the double taxation (I am soon going to be hit by that of I do not renounce as well.Fucking bullshit to have to pay Swedish taxes AND US (above a certain level of income, which i am damn close to, too close). The US is the only advanced nation that taxes 100% foreign-earned income for individuals. Like hell if I fund Rump, nope nope noper, nopest.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213017831

[PatrickforO]

157. LOL, yeah this is kind of a 'skewed older' type site.

Trump himself is like a cancer on the whole earth.

[EllieBC]

158. It also skews suburban.

Middle aged or older and suburban. If you had a house with a yard and didn’t have many bills you wouldn’t mind staying isolated indefinitely.

They are incredibly tone deaf.

[PatrickforO]

156. Wow! You are only 24 years old. Honestly, I barely remember when I was 24.

I'm really happy for you and your wife that you have it out of the way now and can get back to life safely. That's awesome!

[barbtries]

137. bars and churches.

here in NC i'm waiting to see how the Phase 1 affects the numbers reported. A judge struck down Gov Cooper's order regarding churches so yesterday apparently many people showed up at church to sit right next to each other and sing loudly into an enclosed space.

i feel like i may not leave my house for a year. i want data. I want to know all the terrible things this virus might do to me if i get it. I am not trying to die just yet.

[Maxheader]

139. So much data now..

Months..And the successes usually point at social distancing.

[Joinfortmill]

144. Yes, and it won't be easy because

people just step into the 6 ft space until it becomes 3 ft, then 2 ft, then no ft. Happened to me with a neighbor the other day. I hope he wasn't infected. We need to be even more vigilant as folks get sick and tired of distancing. Stay safe.

[mwb970]

146. I have a "quaranteam".

Also known as a "pod" or a "social bubble", a quaranteam is a small group of close friends who have decided to treat each other as safe and occasionally get together like a family. There was an interesting story about this on NPR Sunday morning, did anyone else hear it?

In my case it is my five-piece band. With all upcoming gigs cancelled, we had stopped our usual weekend practices for a couple of months but have now resumed them. Our drummer does wear a mask because his wife is in medical services, although she takes extraordinary precautions. (Lots of "Masked Drummer" jokes.) We work on our songs for three hours or so on Sunday afternoons. Since I live alone and generally go through the week without seeing anyone, this is a nice chance for me to do something "normal" now and then.

I would never go to a bar or other such place at this stage. I do shop for groceries and supplies once a week.

[Dr. T]

147. The original Jaws movie comes to mind.

The sheriff becomes aware of a predator shark lurking in the waters off a popular public beach so he closes the beach. He is overruled by the mayor for economic reasons but the shark is still in the water. People go back into the water ........ Now replace the water with bars and restaurants and the shark with coronavirus. The shark is still in the water.

[Ferrets are Cool]

149. I've gotten to the point where I DON'T CARE ANYMORE

if THEY choose to risk their lives in this manner. The ONLY ones I feel sorry for are the health care givers.

[Evolve Dammit]

155. "Not too bright folks; not too fuckin' bright." RIP George Carlin. They are trashing all the work

that's been done over the last two months or more. And it's a big FU to emergency workers, nurses, doctors. virologists, researchers, epidemiologists and public servants working to prevent transmission (and of course all of the people they encounter). That level of selfishness makes me really despise them. It's one thing if you are forced back to work, or simply maintain or re-open your business using safeguards. This is completely assanine.