I can't think of a single insult that would move me to riot & kill people

[Philosoraptor]

The idea of someone rioting and murdering people over an insult, of any kind, I find difficult to grasp. First I'm an atheist, and there is no deity that I worship, so insulting my religion or lack of religion would be pointless, and I can't be insulted about anything else that I can think of offhand, nothing worth killing over.

If you called me a fat pig, I couldn't care less. If you said my mom was the daughter of a hyena it'd roll right off my back. If you called me a lousy socialist or commie or a dirty hippy, I wouldn't give two flying fucks, insults don't work on me.

I know these days a simple dirty look or perceived sign of disrespect can get you murdered, people are murdered every day over disrespect, life has become so cheap.

But I still can't understand why anyone would let themselves be worked up into a violent rage over a religious insult, in fact, it makes you look like a sucker if you fell for it. When someone insults you, and you react violently, then you've been played, like a chump, you fell for it, hook line and sinker.

I know Islam gets a bad rap from the 1% of the crazy zealots who act out violently over perceived insults, but other religions do it too, so Islam is not the only religion that gets crazy sometimes, for the most part, Muslims are peaceful despite what some haters think.

I never heard of Methodists rioting over an insult to Methodism or Mormons, or Hindus, but I'm sure it's happened.

If your religion makes you kill people when some asshole insults it, you need a new religion.

Can I get an Amen for atheism?

[kestrel91316]

1. Back in the early days of the Mormon church, they did a whole lot more than

riot when gentiles objected to their actions. They were quite big on eliminating enemies by knife or gun. My great-great-great-grandfather, Bill Hickman, was the Secretary of Eliminations, so to speak.

[Philosoraptor]

2. God moves millions to kill other millions

Weird how that works.

[siligut]

13. Danites?

Did I spell that right? Have you heard of the Posse Comitatus? Supposedly the new Danites, but very secretive.

[kestrel91316]

38. Yep, Danites. And no, posse comitatus us just a buzzword flung around by militia types

when they aren't yapping about black helicopters. I've never heard it in association with Mormons.

[siligut]

39. The Mormons who told me about posse comitatus from were militia types

And then there was a Mormon who was arrested for torturing prostitutes and an attorney who worked on the case, told me that the posse comitatus came in as support for the guy. But, I understand now that it is not specifically made up of Mormons, just maybe militia minded Mormons are a part of it. Thank you.

[jberryhill]

3. You are probably educated and literate.

Which makes you less dependent on others for explaining things to you in simple terms.

These factional leaders are like the FOX talking heads, but in a more fertile field.

Rush Limbaugh with an army.

[freshwest]

17. But educated men used to fight duels and kill each other for something as intangible as 'honor.'

They could have led long lives if they'd controlled their egos or really had a clue what was important, which is not public opinion. In that respect, I agree with Wollencroft assessment of some men who killed each other for temporal slights, as being subservient within a system that used them like children. A self-aware person knows how foolish it is and can survive despite insults.

When people are going off and killing people, I doubt it is just about their own idolatry, in western terms. of a book, as they go nuts about the Koran. Or a prophet, who doesn't need their protection, nor does a religion.

They may be choosing someone they resent because they can see they have more power and wealth, and in order to fix society, they have to lower them to their level, or kill them to end the comparison. They have no respect for their own lives. They are the Middle Eastern version of Tea partier bullies at rallies and online. They have a glimpse of something but cannot attain it so they want to destroy the offensive sight of it.

OTOH, these attacks may be vengeance for feeling powerless against westerners proven military and financial ability to rob them. That aspect may appeal to revolutionary minded people in the west who see it as class struggle against a foe that they believe causes the oppression in their own lives.

I don't know what the real reasons behind all of this and I confess to being a bit cranky tonight.

[jberryhill]

21. Let me out it this way

Social conditions are a the problem here. Crazy fanatics become "leaders" when there is lack of education, opportunity, and a sense of common civic interests.

Today in North Africa, millions upon millions of people went on about their business, trying their best to make a life under challenging circumstances.

It's like living in a gang infested area on steroids.

[RobertEarl]

4. I feel sorry for atheists

Human nature being what it is allows little room for pacifism the likes of which you are displaying. If everyone felt that way, there would never be war. Is that really what you want? Everyone at utter peace with each other?

[Philosoraptor]

5. An atheist's funeral: all dressed up and no place to go

Yeah we'd be boned if utter peace broke out suddenly.......

[Summer Hathaway]

6. There is a difference

between satirizing, poking fun, etc. at someone's religious beliefs and willfully setting out to be insulting for its own sake.

That is the issue here. This "film" was made with no other purpose in mind.

[Philosoraptor]

7. I think the insulting film was despicable

And I personally would never participate in insulting anyone's religion like this asshole did, deliberately, and for a specific reason.

[Summer Hathaway]

14. And yet you are perplexed

by people who are led to violence by such things.

While I don't condone the violence, I understand it. And those who made this film understood it, too - in fact, they were banking on it.

[Philosoraptor]

15. The stupid Florida preacher had a burn the Koran day

So yes, he made this film for exactly this purpose, and mitt romney calls it 'our values'.

[theenemyiswithin]

30. The stupid Florida preacher has every right to burn whatever he wants

as long as he complies with local burning/fire laws I could careless what he does or does not burn.

This is America after all where people are free still, sort of, to express their opinion in any way they choose.

In a way Mitt is correct, burning YOUR books is American as apple pie and a core value.

One can even burn down the house they own if they want.

Now not being a religious person, I am free to look at things as they should be but most people in the world are slaves to religion and are offended by freedom in all of its many forms and we are seeing the results in the news and tv every day all over the world.

[Posteritatis]

18. And most people here are kidding themselves to think their life experiences are at all similar

For the most part, we've got it great. We're (mostly) comfortable, (mostly) free, (mostly) with access to opportunity and (mostly) having avenues to work with when any of those break down. I'm not at the wrong point in a demographic bulge in a deliberately downtrodden part of the world with unemployment rates in the thirty to fifty percent range (itself attributable to that downtroddenness as often as not).

Not to specifically excuse some of the actions we're seeing there, but if any of us grew up in Benghazi or Cairo or Sana'a or a number of other places in the last twenty years, you can be very damned sure we wouldn't lack for anxiety, hypervigilant defensiveness, and a general sense of being on edge whenever someone does something really loud and stupid in one of the major powers.

I know where the world sits regarding me right now, and I'm reasonably aware of the levels of attention, respect or protection I can get from that world if those are needed. The system's flawed, but the part of it I'm in isn't actively, and at times maliciously, rigged against me. You're in the same boat. We're both a lot calmer about things going on in the world because we have every reason to be.

[joeybee12]

28. +1...dirt poor, hopeless, uneducated and the one thing they

do know is we (USA and the West) have been phucking them over for years for our own gain.

[The Midway Rebel]

8. That is easy for you to say.

You, living in a western democracy at least have the illusion of agency and power. You can walk away. You have options.

People living in near poverty, not so much. It is not about religion or insults, that is only on the surface. Below all of this; it is about power and who has it and who does not.

[Philosoraptor]

10. But not easy for me to understand

I see what you're saying, and I try to look at it from all sides, but I still find it difficult, as I learned long ago that insults only work if you let them. Sticks and stones.

If you look at it, its a natural reaction to American imperialism, we learned it from the British, who learned it from the Romans.

[abumbyanyothername]

9. I thought we were intelligent here . . .

They are not rioting over insults to their religion.

They are rioting because they are poor, unemployed and otherwise oppressed. They have no present and no hope for the future. So why not engage in riotous behavior? What do they have to lose?

[Philosoraptor]

11. I understand the angry reaction to oppression

And I know the vulgar movie isn't the only reason they are rioting, but that's what all the headlines are saying, that the film is behind the violence.

These outbursts of rage in my opinion are cause and effect of American imperialism, which I wish would stop.

[The Midway Rebel]

12. WHy do your hate freedom?

[Posteritatis]

19. The media is certainly a fan of soundbite-able headlines...

"Muhammad film protest" is a nice buzzphrase that doesn't take up too much of the dozen or so words that most media permits headlines to have, when it's much more likely that the insults aren't the primary cause as much as they're a trigger to a population that, in the last couple years, has had all kinds of reasons to be on edge and to be jealously protective of the level of respect they've managed to claw out of their systems recently.

[whathehell]

16. Me either, but people have been known to kill others for simply "disrespecting" them in ways that

have nothing whatsoever to do with religion.

[rationalcalgarian]

20. Some christians insulted me for being an atheist

Naturally, I rounded up a gang of atheists and we burned their houses down, with their families trapped inside! Then, we marched on the streets, screaming unintelligible gibberish. The media covered it, with the talking heads saying "we better not piss these people off anymore" but it was not enough, because we godlessly severed the heads of some innocent religious fucks and forced others to drink beer and accept insertions into their asses and then we....

Actually, I just smiled and shrugged and wished them a nice day. I am a damned dirty atheist. That's what I do.

[theenemyiswithin]

31. The fundies would lose their collective mind if Atheists fought back in the same way

the fundies do.

Atheists Blocking Access to Churches.
Atheists protesting at their funerals.
Atheists going door to door preaching the truth.

Religion is slavery, Atheism is freedom. I enjoy freedom to much to live as a slave.

[alp227]

23. Well said...why not enough recs though?

Is this Christian Underground? Or maybe it's that American Christians don't riot over shows like Family Guy mocking the Bible, thus the Christians on DU would think this is too self serving?

Maybe this kind of essay may fit better in the atheists & agnostics group, then would get more recs.

[Warpy]

24. Check out the Nativist Riots

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Nativist_Riots

The last straw that sparked them was a law decreeing that the ten commandments be posted in all city schools. People rioted over the fact that bibles their sects didn't approve of might have their versions posted.

All agreed on principle that the ten commandments be posted where the kiddies would see them every day. They just couldn't agree on the numbering or the wording and all hell broke loose.

Christian true believers are just as capable of senseless violence as Muslim true believers and for many of the same reasons.

So how about an "amen" for Buddhist atheism. When the great stone Buddha statues in Afghanistan were dynamited by the Taliban, there was a worldwide outcry at the vandalism. The group that remained totally silent were the Buddhists, themselves, who knew the philosophy wasn't invested in sculpture or scripture, but in daily practice. They were the only group not insulted by the destruction.

The world could learn one hell of a lot from that.

[Confusious]

27. Didn't matter to me that it was a piece of religion

What mattered to me is that it was a piece of history.

[Luminous Animal]

25. Drones are the fuel. The "insult" was the spark.

[cali]

26. context. context. context. How about if someone was bombing you?

In Yemen and Afghanistan and Pakistan, drones regularly rain down bombs. How about if your country had been invaded? How about if it was under continual threat of invasion? How about if it had been dominated and pushed around for decades? How about if murderous strongmen had been propped up by another country? How about if democratically elected leaders had been deposed by another country?

How about the west has a fairly long history of mocking religion and Islam does not? How about your country is rooted in religious law? How about you're not educated? How about you're fed disinformation?

If you can't understand it, that demonstrates YOUR limitations.

I won't support your ignorant op.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

29. Some people identify who they are by what they believe.

I believe I'll have another beer.

[tama]

32. How about you and your family starving

and the rich guy (who stole you food) insulting you by having a feast next to you and then throwing the left-overs into locked waste bin?

If you can take that without blowing a fuse, I call you a strong man.

[Waiting For Everyman]

33. I agree with you. Justifying this is bs.

The rioters remind me of our wing nuts. They were set off by lies promoted by Al Nas TV, just like our crazies aren't far from being set off at any time by Limbaugh. Both elevate attitudes over facts.

[eridani]

34. What about having your wedding party blown up by a drone?

That would be insulting enough for almost anyone. Then any cultural artifact that rubs your ongoing helplessness in your face would be a more than adequate trigger for you to blow up at someone.

[Zax2me]

35. No, you cannot. I'll give you one for Christianity.

And the tens of thousands I have worshiped with of which none kill over insults.

[JDPriestly]

36. We teach our children to resist fighting over insults.

Remember the ditty: Sticks and stones may hurt my bones, but words will never harm me.

Every American child learns some variation of that.

We are such a diverse society that we have to immunize ourselves against insults, taunts and cultural and religious misunderstandings.

[maxrandb]

37. Neither can I...HOWEVER

If thet "single" insult were one of thousands, and I had an over 100 year history of brutal thugs, dictators and murderous asshats being placed in power over me, and provided with support as they raped and killed my family and countrymen...AND I just had over 100,000 of my "brothers, sisters, wives, husbands, children and babies" slaughtered by "Shock and Awe"...AND armies and warships and bombers were sent to two countries to "liberate" me...I might be just a little pissed.

Do you think we fought a revolution or a Civil War because of a "single" insult, or was it due to years and years of oppression and heavy-handed rule by the powerful over the weak?