Police "Unions" must be broken up. Hate me if you want to for saying this, I don't care!

[Dawson Leery]

"Why Are Police Unions Blocking Reform?"
https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2016/09/19/why-are-police-unions-blocking-reform

"The unjust power of police unions"
https://theweek.com/articles/860002/unjust-power-police-unions

[msongs]

1. use the RICO act nt

[BComplex]

13. Wow. Good idea!

I wonder if it could apply to a Union?

[Celerity]

15. yes it can

https://uniondemocracy.org/legal-rights-and-organizing/questions-and-answers-about-legal-rights-and-union-democracy/what-if-our-union-is-put-under-a-federal-rico-monitorship/

[mucifer]

2. they supported jon burge in Chicago who tortured score of black men to false confessions

[Dawson Leery]

6. THIS!

Police unions supported the violation of the law (including human rights treaties).

[roamer65]

3. I agree.

[Coventina]

4. When they call me for donations, I laugh and hang up. n/t

[The Magistrate]

5. I Agree, Sir

At minimum, any contract signed should specify any award payed for misconduct by the city or state is deducted from the pension fund and benefits will be reduced accordingly, with the officer involved personally liable to the fund for the shortage. Any officer against whom a verdict is brought for damages is fired immediately and loses certification for law enforcement.

[scarletwoman]

7. I totally agree. They seem to exist solely to prevent bad cops from being charged for crimes. (nt)

[WhiskeyGrinder]

8. Police unions are garbage, affiliated or no.

[roamer65]

9. Also require all local officers to reside in the area they police.

No exceptions. You leave that area, you lose your job.

[Dawson Leery]

11. Respectfully disagree.

Proper conduct must be uniform, regardless of zip code of residence.

[roamer65]

12. If you live in the area you interact with the locals.

You are not divorced from them. Local cops need to have an interest in the area.

[BComplex]

16. I'm with Dawson Leery on this one. It's hard enough to get good cops. If a cop lives in the same

jurisdiction, it's good enough. We want to keep good cops.
There are two good cops in my family, and they are appalled at the behavior of some.

[roamer65]

17. Hell, I'd take at least the same jurisdiction at this point.

If I remember right the LA cops that beat Rodney King, some were not even from LA.

I could be wrong on that recollection, but I seem to remember it.

[Blue_true]

32. All the cops at the King beating didn't live in LA, from what I understand.

They lived in Simi Valley, which was a popular homestead for cops that worked beats in LA. The asshole Darrell Gates being police chief didn't help matters, the two good things to come out of that situation was that Rodney King got a butt-load of money for the savagery done to him and Gates was forced into retirement and his horrid legacy got examined and changed.

I disagree with the claim that it is hard to find good cops, so cops shouldn't be required to live among the people that they police. That claim is BS, IMO. Cops flock to jobs in big cities, other than the State Police and FBI, that is where the big cop salaries are. So, we see largely POC cities like Chicago, Boston, Miami, with a largely White police force, I have no real issue with that as long as the policing is fair. But, when cops live in the places that they police and send their kids to schools in those places, they are more likely to get involved in the civic activities that make those places better, IMO, when they just pick up a paycheck in those places but live in and support economically totally different areas, I believe it is easier for them to take on an "us versus them" mindset that leads to police misconduct.

[roamer65]

35. THIS.

[hack89]

36. My town would have no police with that policy.

Housing is very expensive. Very few police, firefighters or teachers can afford to live here.

[BComplex]

41. That's happening all over.

It's pushing out the people that support the same area.

[Sherman A1]

10. I find that to be an overreaction

Police Unions may indeed need some serious reform, but breaking a Union is not the answer here. Enforcing the law in the case of a clear murder on video is what is needed.

[MurrayDelph]

26. Ok, then let's start

with breaking up "Police Protective Leagues" and "Benevolent Associations."

[Sherman A1]

28. How about applying the law equally to everyone as a start

unions are a very important part of worker protection. I would not support doing away with them.

[sop]

14. Unions are representative of and support their membership; "Police Unions" ARE the cops.

Taxpayers should not have to pay settlements and jury verdicts when a cop kills or seriously injures someone. Like every other profession, police officers should be required to purchase liability insurance policies to cover their activities while on the job.

And if a police officer cannot purchase liability insurance, because they have had too many complaints made against them, then they would lose their job certification and become unemployable. That would go a long way in preventing police malfeasance.

[DeminPennswoods]

24. That's an interesting suggestion

nt

[dsc]

33. I am a teacher and thus a public employee as well

and while I can personally be sued and do indeed have liability insurance for just that reason, a victim of my misconduct can and should have the right to sue my employer as well if they did nothing to curb my misconduct despite warnings.

[sop]

38. Agreed. If the employer was also negligent, they could be held liable as well.

Note: The problem with my "solution", and why it probably wouldn't be feasible in many situations involving police malfeasance, is liability insurance generally covers only negligence or strict liability, not liability resulting from crimes or intentional acts. Employers can be held liable for such acts, though.

[Blue_true]

37. I believe that forcing police officers to purchase fairly priced

liability insurance would go a long way toward ending misbehavior under the shield of a badge. Businesses are often required to purchase such insurance as a requirement for doing business.

Instead of cities having to fight civil action against cops accused of wrongful behavior, the cops' insurance companies should have to carry that fight, and pay up when it loses. Maybe a police officer having to pay massive insurance premiums will drive home to that person that he or she is poorly suited emotionally for police work.

[MichMan]

18. Any other public employees that should be stripped of bargaining rights?

[stopdiggin]

19. my thought too

the irony is ....

[RobinA]

20. This Is Becoming

a discussion board of unthinking vigilantes. Which is not unexpected if you read up on the dynamics of group behavior when under pressure.

[lostnfound]

21. Their PR spokesmen lie chronically, hand in the waistband, threatening move...

Mob.

[geardaddy]

22. Police unions are the only unions I don't support.

I agree with you 100%

[LanternWaste]

23. The best workers are those without protection.

Never thought I'd see this sentiment on DU other than from 100-count and below posters.

Seems I was wrong.

When we rationalize the denial of protection for one, it's valid to project that denial onto all, forcing one into a death-spiral of anti-progressive thought... though I presume a few delicious tasting justifications will be offered to better maintain a shiny pretense of workers' rights (of course, just some workers... certainly not the approved ones).

[grantcart]

29. Sometimes local Law Enforcement Unions don't protect member protection, they undermine it

They become politically untouchable and become susceptible to be run by machines.

I know of one local where there is clear involvement in the local president getting over rides on employee benefits. No audit in ten years and when a reform group won the local election they eliminated votes to retain control by 10 votes. An appeal was filed and the Department of Labor sent a career inspector. The local Congressman threatened the Department of Labor and they instructed the inspector to stop. Rather than stopping he resigned from his position after 25 years.

I know of another "union" that is supposed to represent civilian security guards (like the guards that inspect people going to federal buildings, etc. This union was taken over by an "organized" group. These workers get $ 5 per hour for benefits, to be administered by the union. This amounts to $ 200 per week or $ 10,000 per worker per year. There were three other "mom and pop" unions (doing a good job protecting their members). This President organized a conference among the four unions and identified a couple of key organizers in the other unions and hired them away with 6 figure contracts. He then launched an avalanche of lawsuits against the three other unions who all went bankrupt.

Now that he consolidated all of the workers in this industry (private security guards working for federal buildings, etc.) he set up a TPA (Third Party Administrator) and run all of the contracts through it and take a 10% fee, all "legal". Do the math 30,000 workers getting $ 10,000 benefit @ 10% equals $ 30 million off the top. Again local reform candidates won elections of their locals (I worked with some of them) and tried to gain control over their benefit dollars. They were told that if they continued they would be removed from their offices, denounced to the local management and fired and they would install their own officers.

Any organization that has control of vast amount of dollars for discretionary spending is ripe for corruption and needs transparency and accountability. I have worked with many honest and great local union leaders of law enforcement groups, and still have many as friends, but there are many that are not honest and I chose to leave the field. Once a local law enforcement union has come under control by corrupt forces it is very difficult to reform it. Not only that but they become so interested in pursuing personal benefit that they don't have time to represent members against management mistreatment.

[dalton99a]

25. Nothing will change until we remove qualified immunity for cops

Hold them personally liable for their misconduct - in criminal AND civil courts

[Midnight Writer]

27. Right, because if police get shit pay and benefits, we will surely get better cops, right?

[Blue_true]

30. I actually had the same thought earlier today.

Police unions protects wrongduers, no other union that I have ever known of does that so consistently and against the public's best interests.

[KY_EnviroGuy]

31. Reformed, yes. Broken up - NO.

This is a right-wing talking point if there ever was one.

Breaking up any public service union is just another step toward the Republican dream of destroying all employee rights to protections, safety and a decent day's pay.

I support all public employee unions and in particular for me, those of teachers and firefighters for example. Where reform is needed, the public must demand it.


KY...........

[dsc]

34. There are no police unions in my state

in point of fact no public employee unions of any sort. NC has had its share of this misconduct by cops.

[pwb]

39. I think they need to be taken down a notch.

Less military gear would help for a start. No need to dress as a storm trooper every day. They protect and serve each other no matter the offense. Pukes militarized the police long ago. November will come and with it needed change in this regard I hope.

[radius777]

40. Agree, law enforcement is a cartel that needs to be broken.

It's the unions, corruption, ties to politicians/organizations that look the other way, etc.

They are above accountability, justice and reform due to these and other factors.

Policing is a very difficult job, and only the most capable/smart individuals who face a rigorous process (similar to our elite militiary people, eg the SEALS) should be chosen.

[Dawson Leery]

42. kick

[Stinky The Clown]

43. I agree.