General Wesley Clark on MSNBC. He gets it.

[nolabear]

Nicely encapsulating the difference between a government-backed anti-American uprising and a group of angry fundamentalists who have no real say in American-Middle Eastern relations.

He also remarked that part of Romney's trouble is that he had no idea what was actually going on. Obama was being briefed by staff with real info and Romney was being briefed by aides who had none. It sounds obvious but hearing it from an ex military leader does carry weight, no matter what you might think of Clark.

[elleng]

1. Thanks. Sorry I missed it.

Wes ALWAYS 'nicely encapsulates.' He and B. Clinton are very good 'teachers.'

[LibGranny]

20. He's a Rhodes Scholar, a West Point graduate, and a former 4-star General.

He's no dummy!

[elleng]

21. He's likely at least as smart as B. Clinton and PrezO.

He was first in his class at West Point, and was 'my' choice, while he was running.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

45. Also post Master's Degree from Oxford, he was selected as a prestigious White House Fellow

White House Fellows spend one year as paid staff assistants in the White House. The selection process is extremely exclusive:

"...
A record of remarkable professional achievement early in one's career.
Evidence of leadership skills and the potential for further growth.
A demonstrated commitment to public service.
The skills to succeed at the highest levels of the Federal government, and the ability to work effectively as part of a team.

All these qualities combined with the strength of one's character, a positive attitude, and the ability to work well with others are taken into consideration when selecting a class of White House Fellows.

The selection process is very competitive. There can be as many as 1,000 applicants for the eleven to nineteen fellowships. The White House Fellows Program office processes the applications and former Fellows screen the applications to identify the most promising candidates. Approximately 100 of the most qualified applicants are selected to be interviewed by eight to ten regional panels, which are composed of prominent local citizens. Based on the results of their interviews, the regional panels select approximately thirty candidates to proceed as national finalists. ..."

http://www.whitehouse.gov/about/fellows/process

[Odin2005]

47. Former SUPREME ALLIED COMMANDER!

Can't get higher ranked then THAT!

[Tom Rinaldo]

2. I think a lot of Clark

He is an honest man who believes that the public always has a right to be accurately informed, whatever you think of his specific views. I tend to appreciate his views because he doesn't duck hard questions or shun inconvenient complexities.

[nolabear]

4. That's how I feel too. I'm not wild about some of what he does but he's a smart commentator.

[elleng]

5. Same here, Tom.

[bahrbearian]

9. +1 more

[pacalo]

12. I think highly of Wesley Clark, too, Tom.

[JNelson6563]

63. Well put Tom, agree 100%

I rarely get to catch him on TV but when I do he is a pleasure to listen to. Smart guy who lays it all out clearly.

Julie

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

3. He said it was important to work with the new Democracies

and that the ones fomenting the violence are extremist Islamic clergy who are frustrated because the people did not vote them into office. This is a complicated situation and I'm sure Obama will make Romney look like an idiot in the debates because of his simplistic solutions.

[Spazito]

6. He was excellent...

I am glad to see him appearing more now that the issue of National Security has become a focus due to what's happening in the Middle East. There is no one better to explain the complexities in a way everyone can understand, imo.

[elleng]

7. Right, Spaz. No one better.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

8. I'm glad to see him appearing more now too.

I wish the revelations he made a few years ago on Democracy Now had led to the mass demonstrations that might have stopped the ILLEGAL US/NATO wars of aggression which subsequently followed and are still being prosecuted:

[elleng]

10. REALLY, Mr_Jefferson,

and the revelations had been made in his BOOK, PRIOR to Democracy Now!

[Tom Rinaldo]

11. I was there that night. It was an amazing evening

No one could claim that he wasn't facing a tough interviewer. There wasn't a softball thrown at Clark that night. He answered every question posed to him, fully and without a hint of evasion, including a number of fastballs thrown inside about Kosovo. Leaders should be able to take that kind of heat. Romney is an embarrassment to America compared to someone like Wes Clark.

This was the same time period when Clark was launching his Stop Iran War initiative also.

[Mr_Jefferson_24]

44. And I naively thought...

... after first learning of Clark's revelations that it would be too big a story for MSM to bury or ignore.

But for the most part, ignore they did, so far as I know. Or maybe I'm wrong -- did Bill Maher, Keiith Olbermann, Bill Moyers, or anyone else have Clark on to talk about these preplanned wars and reach a larger audience? If so, I never saw those interviews.

This should have been MAJOR news, and it should have made continuing to prosecute these illegal wars of aggression virtually impossible. I "misunderestimated" the sinister nature of MSM.

[elleng]

55. Yes, it should have been MAJOR news,

but it was ignored. Was in his book. Ignored. On Democracy Now. Ignored. Occasionally appears now in print. Ignored.

[GoCubsGo]

13. I wonder if this is some indication he might be in the running for Hillary's job.

That's assuming the President gets a second term. I'm pretty sure Hillary was not kidding when she said that 4 years in that job is enough. I think he'd make an excellent SofS.

[Spazito]

14. Interesting thought...

Last edited Sat Sep 15, 2012, 08:04 PM - Edit history (1)

I think he would excel in that position were he to be appointed but I don't think him being asked to comment on the current unrest is an indication of that but rather an acknowledgement of his expertise on complex national security issues.

[jaysunb]

17. I always thought he'd wind up at Defense or State

now that he's eligible. Let's hope so.

[elleng]

23. After SecDef and State,

I was thinking of National Security.

Have been mystified about why he hasn't been embraced by PrezO, especially because he appeared to have a close relationship to Clintons.

[jaysunb]

31. I think he's been on the bench waiting for the 2nd term.

I have no doubt Obama will be calling on him in some capacity after January. At least I hope he will.

[elleng]

36. 'I have no doubt' and 'At least I hope he will'

are far apart, I'm afraid, jaysunb.

Good to see so much pro-Wes opinion here, but mustn't get my hopes up. Been there, done that.

[northoftheborder]

65. thrown under the bus along ago. i don't know why. Very sad, a wasted talent for out country.

[Ilsa]

18. I'm hoping Obama will ask him.

He's more than qualified. He has a deep understanding of the military, political, and human behavior aspects of being our top diplomat. He also has an Economics degree, IIRC.

I think it's been more than ten years since he left the military, so he should be good to go. (I'm thinking there is a ten year rule in there.)

[Odin2005]

48. I want him as Sec. of Defense in Obama's 2nd term.

[JDPriestly]

58. Obama is pursuing the same policy attacking the countries Clark mentioned in the order

pretty much in which Clark mentioned them. I think that is US policy, the US plan.

Clark has been one of my favorite people. We missed out when we did not consider him more carefully for the presidential nomination.

[speedoo]

15. Romeny's response was dictated by his POLITICAL advisers.

And they were looking to "fill in their NARRATIVE".

All we need to kow about Romney, he is a gutless, souless opportunist.

Not fit to lead, not even close.

[madaboutharry]

16. When these types of crisis are the subject matter,

Gen. Clark is at his best. After he retired from the military, he seemed lost and ungrounded. His candidacy for president was a disaster. And what the hell was that reality show about? But, when he is in his element, he is very on the mark.

[Ilsa]

19. He should be SoS when

sec Clinto leaves, or run for President in 2016.

[Drunken Irishman]

26. I'd like Kerry, but after the whole Kennedy/Brown fiasco...

[Tom Rinaldo]

22. Just a friendly rejoinder...

Clark's low point as a Presidential candidate was in early December 2003, after his campaign got off to a rocky start to great media expectations of him. He had fallen far in the polls as a result, but a funny thing happened. He went to New Hampshire and started connecting with people at Town Hall meetings and such. He began to rise in polls again, expecially in New Hampshire. Except by then the national media was ignoring him. Joanne Woodward's Inside Politics show, for example, refused to even mention his name once for well over a month lasting well into January - (it was fact checked at the time). People were shocked when Clark raised the most money of any Democratic candidate (Dean included) from a grassroots funding campaign in January - but they still didn't give him the time of day.

Clark came from well behing in NH to tying Kerry for second place in the polls there. In 2004 no one was giving credit to Democrats who had to compete against Dean and Kerry who were based in neighboring states to New Hampshire and who had been getting tons of free media coverage inside of NH for years (Kerry for example got beamed into NH of MA TV stations). THIS year everyone acted like it was natural to assume Romney was untouchable in NH because of his neighbor state advantage and pundits only looked to see who would come in second and third to him.

Anyway Clark had been moving past Kerry in January and was closing on Dean when a strategic error (pushed on him by the skilled politicos while Clark was still very much a novice) bit him in the ass. Due to his late entry in the race Clark skipped competing in Iowa. 2004 became the year when the 24 hour news cycle covered Iowa as if it were the Democratic Convention - giving scant attention to New Hampshire in the run up to the Ipowa caucus. Kerry bet all his marbles on campaigning in Iowa where he would not be facing Clark and he bet well, cornering the national security minded voters in Iowa during a war year campaign. Kerry won Iowa which polished up his his NH star, and Democrats there who had mostly always liked Kerry returned to him with new confidence.. The media went gaga over John Edwards for coming in second over Howard Dean in Iowa, and they devoted lots of press to mocking Dean.

The final week before the NH primary the media was all over Dean fading and Kerry and Edwards rising. They ignored Clark except for when Clark refused to throw Michael Moore (who had endorsed Clark at a NH rally) under the bus for saying Bush was a a war evader when he was in the National Guard. The media was in love with John Edwards. So when the NH results came in two New Englanders came in first and second, Kerry and Dean. Clark came in third, Edwards came in fourth. That changed nothing. The media never missed a beat and continued to cover the race as if it had shrunken to a two man race; Kerry and Edwards, with whatever other coverage space left devoted to ridiculing Dean and his "collapse."

Clark fininshed second to Kerry in New Mexico and I think Arizona (ahead of Edwards, Dean, Lieberman etc) the next week but Edwards rode home field advantage and wind in his sails home to victory in South Carolina. The media gave Clark no credit, and never did thereafter even though he came in second in some other primaries and won Oklahoma - all while being written off and ignored by the press.

Clark may not have set the world on fire as a candidate in 2004 (or in late 2003 to be more precise) but he had a steep learning curve and was doing pretty damn well out there on the campaign trail once January hit Iowa and the media fascination with John Edwards killed is chances, but he his race was not in any way a disaster. Clark ultimately did better than Dean, Gephardt, and Lieberman (who back then was still viewed as the Democrat who had run with Al Gore for VP) He was not a flash in the pan candidate like a Fred Thompson or Rick Perry.

[roguevalley]

25. i am still in mourning :)

I love him.

[elleng]

27. THANKS for refreshing everyone on Wes' history, Tom,

Last edited Sun Sep 16, 2012, 02:01 AM - Edit history (1)

and remember Wes won Dixville Notch!

[Stinky The Clown]

49. The Stinky/Sparkly house was CHEERING at that small victory.

I recall that like it was last night. Obviously Dixville Notch is nothing more than a curiosity, but we were (are) big Clarkies and took that as an omen . . . . sadly shortlived.

[elleng]

50. We Clarkies were HYSTERICAL!!!

Tom R was one of us. And Fawke Em. And Frenchie Cat.
HAPPY to learn you were, too!

[Doctor_J]

29. I gave $$ to his campaign.

It would have been nice, but it wouldn't have been any harder for the Repukes the steal the election from him than from Kerry. Maybe 2016

[graham4anything]

32. to add

on the official john Kerry board back then,while I was a Bob Graham fan(hence my name), the slimy Edwards groupies got all the Wes Clark people and everyone else who wasn't an Edwards groupie suspended during the time. While in the end it didn't matter as the board was somewhat hidden unbeknownst to the posters (2004 was still early in the computer era for instant response), voices were silenced so that it seemed like a stampede for Edwards.
Edwards turned out to be the slime and not who he proported to be, as most anti-Edward people knew he was. And the day Kerry picked him for VP, in Kerry's own eyes one knew Kerry felt he would not win. Edwards was like the rpubs at this years repub convention, shamelessly promoting himself over Kerry.

Clark would have made a fine VP choice compared to Edwards. And same with any other position he might have gotten.

SOS for Hillary in 2016 and 2020 would not be a bad idea.

and yes, had Wes started a little bit earlier, and entered Iowa, the results just might have been different, very different. I do believe even if Wes hadn't won the primary, his being in Iowa would have led to a different candidate in 2004.

The funny part about that race is, in retrospect, had Kerry picked Wes as his VP, the whole swiftboat bullshit would not have worked, Wes could have hit it out of the park on that issue.

[elleng]

52. Graham was my first donation, graham!

THEN Wes!!!
Later, Joe Biden.
Now. PrezO and Wayne Powell.

[graham4anything]

60. He is a great person who should have gone further

yet remember the hoorrible Edwards fans calling him too boring, too old, too ugly(no 400.00 haircuts I guess) and in the biggest irony, they said he was odd keeping daily journals

Then Cheney and Bush were the most secretive, and having someone who could pull out a journal and know the exact date was just the opposite of W43.

Gore should have picked him over Lieberman as Graham was more popular than even Mickey Mouse in Florida(a line I used back then).

Supposedly had Kerry won, Graham was already told he had a cabinet post.

It's a shame.

[elleng]

66. A real shame.

I met him at Politics and Prose bookstore in DC few months ago, discussing his book, 'fiction,' Keys to the Kingdom. Signed a copy for me. He is a delight, and highly knowledgeable.

[NCarolinawoman]

42. I still have his N.H. pancake breakfast event on an old vcr tape.

Came across it the other day. It was broadcast on C-span. I haven't re-watched it yet, but I remember it being a really fun affair.

In regards to the breakfast, I have this memory of an older Army Vet asking Clark how he would deal with Bush. I think Wes said something like, "I'll kick his ASS!" Then the Vet looked totally startled and got the happiest look on his face.

[elleng]

51. Right, NC, 'I'll kick his ass!!!'

[mykpart]

54. Clark would have made a much better candidate than Kerry

and I think he would have defeated Bush in 2004. I'm sorry I didn't even have a chance to vote for him in the primary.

[elleng]

56. I think so too, mykpart,

AND there was a period of time during which we Clarkies thought Kerry was going to select Wes as V.P.

[JDPriestly]

59. I agree. Did Clark participate in the debates?

I supported Clark and strongly early on in the campaign, but I remember that Kerry and Edwards were very strong in the debates. One of my colleagues held a fundraiser for him, and I attended, but I don't clearly remember the chronology on that.

[Tom Rinaldo]

64. He missed the first two or three, then took part

Clark held his own in the debates. He rarely was asked questions about Domestic policy however, which was a real shame since he was advocating a broad progressive agenda. Clark is an excellent debater, but he was trained in classical debate. It took him a little while to adjust to the truncated political version of debating that having 8 candidates on stage responding to gotcha questions delivers. Wes speaks 5 languages, but in the prelude to 2008 when it seemed like he might run again I used to say to people that he hadn't had time to become fluent in "Sound Bite" prior to entering the 2004 race. Clark was learning that as he went along and had it down cold by the time he was campaigning as bne of Kerry's top surragates against Bush.

The last debate in NH right before the primary was an organized ambush against Clark staged by FOX news which, believe it or not, was the host. All the questions Clark got were attacks and they tried to sink him by tieing him to Michael Moore. FOX actually cut away from the debate befor it even ended. They did not broadcast the candidates final comments (where Clark would have been free to make his own points) and cut instead to their studio where rightest commentators continued to belittle Clark. It was unreal. They hoped to destroy Wes Clark and take him off the national stage thereafter. They failed at that part at least because for all of their efforts Clark still finished ahead of Edwards in New Hampshire, and they couldn't lable him a flop while the national media was hyping how great John Edwards was. So they all contented themselves with ignoring Clark instead.

[JDPriestly]

70. I heard Clark speak in a small forum. He was great.

[savannah43]

24. You have to see his. I kept having to remind myself that he was talking about BushCo.

If you cannot see the whole thing, start at 19 minutes in. Lord help us all.

[JDPriestly]

61. Ray McGovern is very insightful, intelligent and honest. In my opinion, however,

he has a blind spot when it comes to Jewish people and Israel.

I suspectg that if asked to explain his point of view on Jews and Israel in the light of history, he would claim that the State of Israel is unnecessary. Where in the world he thinks Jews could feel safe and live according to their laws and traditions, he would not be able to say, but he would probably say they could be safe in the US. Sorry, Mr. McGovern. That is not so. The Evangelicals profess to support Israel, but they also want to convert Jews and cannot be trusted to respect the fact that most Jewish people will probably maintain their cultural and religious values and never convert to Christianity.

McGovern sees Palestinians as the only victims in the area that was for centuries a part of the Ottoman Empire and then was the British Protectorate. He ignores centuries and centuries of persecution of Jewish people -- virtually since the destruction of the temple by Rome in somewhere around 70, 72 A.D. as well as the fact that Jews were for all purposes and intents brutally expelled from Europe during and after WWII and that most of them had no place to go other than to Israel.

I attribute McGovern's insensitivity to the precarious situation of Jews around the world to the fact that he is a devout Catholic. To acknowledge the centuries of suffering that the Catholic Church and European governments under the influence of the Catholic Church inflicted on Jews would make it impossible for a man of his intelligence, who is so proud of his integrity and who tries so hard to be true to his conscience to continue any affiliation whatsoever with the Catholic Church.

Truly a blind spot. One that seriously diminishes the value of McGovern's otherwise exemplary character and understanding.

[Aerows]

28. People in the military

know that the military is deployed when and where it should be used. Romney thinks our men and women -that are in our families and friends - and that are our loved ones, are chess pieces for his ego and aggrandizement.

[Rowdyboy]

30. I met General Clark at a tribute for his wife Gert in 2006. Bill Clinton was there too....

Probably the most amazing night in my life since both men are heroes of mine. When Wes Clark speaks, he has my full attention because I expect to hear something both intelligent and thought-provoking and I'm rarely disappointed.

[jaysunb]

34. I shared a dinner table w/ them at the 2004

Democratic Unity dinner, as a part of the Dean List delegation. Wonderful, intelligent and gracious couple.

[aint_no_life_nowhere]

35. I saw him speak and shook his hand in 2003 when he was running

He appeared in Los Angeles together with Gray Davis in opposition to the recall. Clark gave a great speech. I know his campaign hit a few bumps but, like Howard Dean, he got very few breaks from the media. I recall the way his words were taken completely out of context by guys like Tucker Carlson and he was even accused of believing in time travel. I think he's a great man.

[grasswire]

33. I have been hoping to see Amb. Joe Wilson

He was the last man out of Baghdad remember. I think very highly of him too; I hoped that he might be in Obama's state department.

I'd like to hear what he has to say at this time.

[Gabi Hayes]

37. I would really like to hear him speak about his

perception of Romney's foreign policy team

did you see the "These Guys" video?

[grasswire]

39. No

I'll look it up.

A state department utilizing Clark, Wilson, and both of the Clintons in advisory capacity would be a grownup team. Let it be.

[Gabi Hayes]

43. here

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10021346098

[BootinUp]

38. I think he is scary smart, and a patriot (in the good sense)

and he could have done a lot for the country in 04 if dems had given him the chance.

[KT2000]

40. He has broad knowledge and perspective

and he portrays things truthfully - not politically.
Have always thought highly of him.

[Liberal_in_LA]

41. Even if Obama hadn't known what was going on, he wouldn't have run before

the cameras with a smirk on his face

[Odin2005]

46. WES! WES! WES!

He was NATO Supreme Allied Commander when I was a kid and he formed my image of the stereotypical general.

He's a guy who knows what the fuck he's talking about.

[nolabear]

53. Boy this little thread sure took on a life of its own. Good! I learned a lot.

DU is at its best when we're not fighting and are exchanging good intel.

[jrsantanas]

57. where is the original link to see the interview?

?link?

[Ian62]

62. Wesley Clark from 2007 - the neocon Foreign Policy coup

&feature=youtu.be

[elleng]

67. Wes interview w Hannity, largely about Egypt.

http://video.foxnews.com/v/1841555577001/

[elleng]

68. And on ABC This Week:

CLARK: No president can publicly declare red lines. That surrenders his decision-making authority.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/09/sunday-sound-heard-on-this-week-17/

[elleng]

69. Wes on ABC Video, about economy: