So, Where Do People Get a Counterfeit $20 Bill?

[MineralMan]

Mostly from ATMs. They rarely get them as change in stores, since most people don't carry around $50 or $100 bills. People carry $20 bills. And where do they get those? From ATMs.

There's nobody in banks or other places looking at every $20 bill in a bundle of those bills. They just get stacked in the ATM machines as they are stacked. Businesses deposit them in their bank and they get counted by a machine and banded up in bundles. Nobody checks them for validity on a routine basis.

So, the $20 bill George Floyd used in that Cup Foods store probably came out of an ATM. Stores use those counterfeit detecting pens sometimes, but not always when you hand them a $20. Hand them a $50 or $100, and they get checked every time.

George Floyd got his $20 from an ATM and didn't even look closely at it. Nobody does.

[roamer65]

1. People most often get them in change.

The bank I use their counting machines kicks out bad ones, but not all banks do that level of checking.

Amateur counterfeiters rarely spend the bogus notes at once. They mix them into good notes a few at time, to increase the chance of the bogus note passing.

I steadfastly believe George Floyd did not know the note was bogus. The vast majority of people don’t know how to identify one, or simply don’t pay attention to the notes they receive.

[MineralMan]

11. Not really. Unless you're paying with a $50 or $100 bill,

you won't get a $20 in change. On the other hand, if you use an ATM, you're going to get $20 bills.

I cannot remember the last time I got a $20 in change. I occasionally get cash back at the supermarket, where I use my debit card, but most of the time, any $20 in my wallet came from an ATM.

The only time I have a $100 bill is if I cash a large check at the bank, and I almost never do that. Generally, I deposit all checks, since I don't like carrying more than $40 in my wallet.

When I used to go to mineral shows to buy stock for my internet business, $100 bills were the preferred method of payment, so i would withdraw money at the bank to have cash for those purchases, but that happened just a couple of times a year. The last time I did that was in 2007, when I took $10,000 to Denver to the big mineral show there. It did not go in my wallet. A full bundle of Benjamins will not fit in any wallet I have ever owned.

[roamer65]

12. That's what my banker told me.

...and they usually get them from party stores and it’s not just 20’s.

I believe them because they handle currency on a daily basis. Also, the 10’s are counterfeited heavily as well. The only bogus note I’ve ever received was a $10.

The bogus 20 in question more than likely was spent in a store, then deposited in a bank that doesn’t check their notes well and loaded into a ATM.

Or George went to one of those non-bank ATM’s, which I never use due to security concerns.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. I don't think I'd know a counterfeit $20 if I saw one.

I never look closely at bills. The $20 is said to be the most commonly-counterfeited bill because it's used a lot; it's not so large that people pay close attention to it, and it's what they put in ATMs. So yes, an ATM is most likely where Floyd got it, though possibly through a transaction from somebody else who didn't look at it either. But I don't care if he made it himself with crayons and tissue paper. You're not supposed to get the death penalty for counterfeiting.

[roamer65]

4. Especially if you are not guilty of counterfeiting in the first place.

[mnmoderatedem]

8. I had a friend arrested for passing a counterfeit 20.

She had no idea. She just got it in circulation unknowingly, and tried to deposit in her bank.


Who knows how many counterfeit bills are out there.

[LizBeth]

27. Was she black? Seriously I cannot imagine anyone being arrested or even having cops called on them

for that. Cops called to have a conversation about where they may have gotten 20, but not for trying to use a twenty that is a forge. As Op says, we don't check and most of us wouldn't know if we saw one.

[Arkansas Granny]

10. Exactly. Counterfeiting is not a death penalty offense.

Even if George Floyd was aware that he had a counterfeit $20 and was trying to pass it, that is not a death penalty offense. I tried to make that point to someone the other day.

[uponit7771]

3. K&R, I worked for an NFP and you had to have a special pen and a special light to see if a bill was

... fake.

You couldn't tell by the naked eye

[roamer65]

5. Most are photocopied by printing devices that ignore the EURion constellation on the note.

Also known as Omron rings.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/EURion_constellation

[irisblue]

7. NFP-non farm payroll? not for profit? Not fixing to play? 🤔

[Igel]

14. Not for profit? n/t

[backscatter712]

19. Be wary - those pens are not reliable.

https://www.accubanker.com/blogs/news/why-counterfeit-pens-are-not-reliable

Short version - those pens test for the presence of cotton in the paper, and the ink changes color accordingly. But counterfeiters have known how to beat those pens for a long time - bleach one-dollar bills, reprint them as twenties, for example. Hostile governments (like North Korea) also provide counterfeiters with suitable paper.

Those pens also have been known to have false-positives as well.

Especially relevant given current events. Most people passing counterfeits don't know they've done it - they don't look at the bills - counterfeits sometimes come right out of ATMs. That fact didn't help George Floyd though.

[uponit7771]

20. WOW !!! They're even putting cotton in the fake bills

[backscatter712]

23. It's a little tricky.

Though at the same time, hostile foreign governments (North Korea, China for example) are counterfeiting dollars, or helping counterfeiters, say by providing them with the special paper.

North Korea, IIRC had a particularly sophisticated counterfeiting operation. Keeps the Secret Service very busy.

[TXPaganBanker]

30. The pens also don't work on pre-1960's bills

The cotton content of the bill changed back in 1958(?) if memory serves. If you get a vintage note and try to pen check it, it's coming back counterfeit.

[Tipperary]

31. You actually can.

There are many clues. Not the very best ones perhaps, but most are not.

[backscatter712]

33. Depends on the particular counterfeit bill

Some of them are Beavis-and-Butthead counterfeits - someone hacked a color laser printer or photocopier to bypass the constellation check - those should be easy to spot.

The more professional criminals have counterfeits that are much harder to spot.

And I don't know if North Korea is still printing funny money, but their counterfeit $100s are almost impossible to distinguish from the real thing.

[tetedur]

6. If he knew it was counterfeit, why did he remain at the scene?

Would you?

I wouldn't. If I successfully got cigarettes with a bogus twenty, I'd walk out and keep on walking.

Instead, the store clerks came out and asked for the cigarettes, returned to the store and called the police. Still Floyd and his companions remain sitting the vehicle.

[uponit7771]

9. +1

[LizBeth]

28. +1

[roamer65]

13. Here's a batch that almost got into Minnesota.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/2020/01/28/900000-counterfeit-seized-customs-all-one-dollar-bills/4598937002/

The Chinese even attempt to counterfeit $1 notes.

[Tracer]

15. In my entire life, I've had a bill checked exactly once.

It was a $100 bill and the clerk held it up to the light to see the embedded security strip.

It was real.

[Voltaire2]

16. I don't care if Mr. Floyd intentionally passed a bogus bill or not. It is completely irrelevant. nt.

[UCmeNdc]

17. My question is if you only have one counterfeit bill does that mean you are the counterfeiter?

Why would you get arrested over one counterfeit bill? Maybe someone passed it to you as change or payment for a service. How many people are expert enough to recognize a passed counterfeit bill immediately? Especially if it is a very good copy?
Now if you have a wallet full of these maybe they need to arrest and question you. But one bill could be just a fact someone swindled you.

[backscatter712]

21. Now we're back to police misconduct.

A combination of racial profiling, roid-raging cops, and no accountability.

If George Floyd was white, instead of getting choked to death, the cops would have politely said "Did you know this bill was counterfeit?"

[roamer65]

22. Most occurrences are someone who didn't know.

In the United States, the crime is the attempt to pass a bogus note. You can actually possess one, you can’t pass it. So if you get one in the US, literally the buck stops with you.

In Canada, you cannot pass or own one. Both are illegal.

But neither countries have the death penalty for any counterfeiting crimes. We are not China. China executed people for counterfeiting up to about 2015, if I remember right.

[CTyankee]

18. Now you're being reasonable, MM!

Only it was the wrong "reason"

[marie999]

24. I go to the bank once a month and get $100 from the inside ATM.

I then go to a teller and have them changed for $10s. They know I just got them from the ATM and do not check them. I see some banks, but not my primary bank, give you a choice of 20s or 10s at the ATM.

[HipChick]

25. Got mine from ATM..

Not only $20, but also $100 bills..
I was overseas too, some countries take US dollars ...store refused the bills,and luckily had local currency..

[Greybnk48]

26. Back in the 90's, my daughter and another girl worked at Sears

at their Circle of Beauty cosmetic counter. He co-worker was passed a counterfeit $20 and Sears caught it that night. Her friend was mortified that she didn't spot it as fake, but it was really well done.

Sears told the girls that it was common to pick a venue with lots of traffic like a large store or mall to pass the bills. Especially were expensive goods were sold. It turned out that quite a few were passed in our big mall over a day or so.

Again, that was the 90's and I suppose a lot has changed. I thought I would post this to show how these bills used to get into the monetary bloodstream in some cases.

[Blue_Tires]

29. Couple years ago some student was passing bad money around campus

and it wasn't even noticed until the end of the workday...

[Lucinda]

32. ...

[TXPaganBanker]

34. Former banker here.

I held positions as a commercial teller, vault teller, teller supervisor and operations supervisor at various times in my career. As OpSup, it was literally part of my job to find counterfeit bills and report them to the Treasury Dept. At various times in my career, I would be responsible for as much as $2 million in cash under my control.

We were able to machine count bills up to $20s, but had to hand count $50s and $100s. Every time. The machines do an incredible job of finding counterfeit notes, or even notes of different denominations in a stack. Each note denomination is a different size, and the paper has slightly different acidities. They now have security threads that black light various colors and are in different positions in the note (You can tell a washed $5 that was raised to a $20 by the thread). There are holograms. There are watermarks. Microprinting. It goes on and on and on.

Bills have raised printing, counterfeits don't. You'd be amazed how many fake bills I found by touch that I wouldn't have found by inspection.

Every single bill that went into our ATMs was both machine counted and hand counted.

Our two largest sources of incoming counterfeit bills were commercial deposits and adult dancers. For commercial deposits, you knew when the peaks were going to hit. Clothing stores around Tax Free Weekend. Around Black Friday. 2nd and 3rd shift deposits at convenience stores. Any time people were dealing with volumes of cash and cashiers didn't have time to inspect notes, there would always be a glut of them. And with dancers, we just knew to expect them, so their cash deposits were given higher scrutiny. The biggest chance for John Q. Public to receive a counterfeit bill from a bank? Our own tellers that didn't know what to look for, mostly due to inexperience, even though they've been trained. I found more counterfeit notes in my tellers' drawers during audits than any other source, and they had no idea how they received them.

On the other hand, the USD 20 is literally one of the most used bills on the planet. In person-to-person transactions, whether it's paying a friend for lunch, buying something, selling something, etc., if there's cash, you can bet your sweet bippy that there's going to be $20s involved. So, the chance of him having a fake 20 and not knowing? Higher than you'd believe.