"Defund the police" Could we get better at branding, please? Here's Kurt Eichenwald's take,

[pnwmom]

and he speaks for many.

If we want to lose in November, a "defund the police" slogan could be a good way to start.

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1269673761705467904.html

This "defund police" stuff is so divisive, so self-destructive, costs so much support, & takes so much attention away from the issue - racism in America - that it will unquestionably be joined by people trying to undermine this movement. When I was attacked in 2016, who would../1

...I have called? When I was robbed of my belongings in 1986, who would I call? When I was raped in 1984 (if I had been willing to call) who would I have called? When there are no police, who will open stores in crime-ridden areas where poor people need groceries?.../2

...again, it is SO destructive of the uprising against racism in America that I must wonder if this is white upper middle class kids hijacking this effort from African Americans who suffer from systemic racism - the REAL issue. If I'm right, white kids - shut up. Join this.../3

...movement, yes. But African American communities are the leaders, not you. They set the agenda, not you. The phrase is "Black Lives Matter" not "Defund the Police."

SNIP

[Nevilledog]

1. I agree 100%

[blueinredohio]

2. That makes three of us

[Brother Mythos]

23. Add me to the list.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. Absolutely right. Reform the police. Demilitarize them

and hire other qualified people to deal with community problems that aren't criminal. But "defunding" makes it sound like people want police to be eliminated entirely, and that's not what city councils are looking at.

[pattyloutwo]

24. Yes, reform the police

Once again, we lack in our messaging and framing. We let Republicans call SS benefits entitlements rather than earned benefits. Messaging!

[SoonerPride]

4. Biden isn't saying "defund the police." Don't you fret about it.

[Aviation91]

5. Don't Know Who Started It, But...

I think it's a bad slogan! I don't want to defund the police! Reform? Absolutely!! Sometimes people get a notion in their heads and they run with it, not thinking about how it can be used against their cause! Some people will think that folks don't want police at all when that's not the case!! Believe me, the Republicans and Donald Trump will latch onto that and run ads that the Democrats and Joe Biden want there to be lawlessness and no police! Just stupid!

[pnwmom]

7. The DC branch of Black Lives Matter might have been the first.

They might have meant it as a shorthand for the tweet, possibly. But it doesn't work as a brand.

Link to tweet

BlackLivesMatter DC
@DMVBlackLives
This is a performative distraction from real policy changes. Bowser has consistently been on the wrong side of BLMDC history. This is to appease white liberals while ignoring our demands. Black Lives Matter means defund the police.

[BrightKnight]

32. BLM needs to discuss that with

someone with real political experience if they don’t get why this is an issue.

Trump removed Obama’s reforms and 4 more years of Trump...

[UTUSN]

73. Saving this, was going to O.P. asking for the origin. And agree here with almost all of this thread

[Sugarcoated]

6. This had to have been started by the wing nuts

in wingnutlandia. I can't imagine Dems would be so politically tone deaf to have come up with this

[Blue_true]

29. Our messaging ability has always been horrible.

I can believe some from our side came up with this. Now it is up to the sane majority to give such a silly phrase a short life.

[LeftInTX]

51. I think it was Black Lives Matter

Unfortunately, many times activists don't coordinate their messaging with politicians.

It isn't a Democratic slogan.

Although Democrats support BLM, we aren't responsible for their messaging. It is our support of BLM, that the GOP will use against us

[Progressive dog]

8. I agree that "defund the police"

is an extremely bad idea. In fact, it sounds like a call for anarchy.

[TheCowsCameHome]

9. Get rid of it, quick.

It's a loser.

[Celerity]

58. the hardcore activist sphere will never listen to mainstream Democrats telling them what to do

It has clusterfuck potential

[gulliver]

10. It's badly expressed and foolish if taken literally, but I think it will work out well.

Sometimes its good to have something hot-headed and foolish spring up. It shows how pissed you are and gives you a chance to "back off" to a position you might not have been able to get to directly. And besides, nobody believes a word Trump or his Republicans say now anyway. We're starting to be Teflon.

[pnwmom]

13. It would be a terrible slogan for an election, and we're only 5 months away from November.

[Mike 03]

11. It's the term "Defund Police". It's the kind of self-inflicted injury we ridicule Trump

for making. This is how we snap defeat from the jaws of victory.

[maxsolomon]

12. Cut their budget marginally!

That's a slogan we can all rally 'round.

[Blue_true]

27. Get rid of the excessive militarization.

We don't need to see an armored carrier slowly rolling behind cops in heavy body armor, who are facing a group of unarmed protesters. Instead, take the money that is used for the militarization and put it toward community outreach officers, or give pay bonuses to officers that are willing to walk a beat and talk daily with the people that are being policed.

[hunter]

14. Business calls it "restructuring."

And somehow they are given a pass to disemploy people who are not violent racist scum.

[Blue_true]

28. Then maybe more thought should have gone into our phrase.

"Defund the Police" is a lazy, self-damaging phrase that distracts from reforming police forces, it gives opponents of reform something to beat us across the head with and neuter our arguments with.

Maybe "Re-directing Policing" would be far better since it alludes to demilitarization of police forces, holding police accountable for unneccessary violence toward citizens and improving the relationship between police and Black and Brown communities.

[pnwmom]

33. Why aren't Dems calling to Restructure the Police instead of Defund the Police?

The meanings are very different.

[marmar]

37. They are.....

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-52969375

[DIVINEprividence]

15. The "defunding the police" stuff is really dumb

Honestly. WTF?

[DIVINEprividence]

16. It is like "Democratic Socialism"

Another example of dumb messaging. Instead of “Defund the Police” you could say comprehensive criminal justice reform. Instead of “Democratic Socialism” you could just say liberal. This election is life or death. We don’t need this stupid crap.

[Dopers_Greed]

17. Totally agreed

I watched a documentary over the weekend that showed police busting sex trafficking operations.

So are we against that?

[smirkymonkey]

18. Hear, hear!

Cut it. Now. I really don't want to hear one more Democrat say that in public.

Who started this anyway?

[AlexSFCA]

19. self-sabotaging branding

Dems should say they don’t support the SLOGAN but support the reform. Kamala Harris got tripped up by meghan mcbitch on the view when she was asked this question. It’s also a perfect slogan if you want to divide dem party.

[Pepsidog]

20. I agree. Let's have a much better message.

[Cha]

21. Totally Agree..

Heartstrings❤

[tiptonic]

22. Let me guess

'Defund the Police', will be Trumps rallying cry, for the next election. He will win. I wonder who put it out there. Wake up people.

[melman]

25. Kurt Eichenwald is totally full of shit

As usual.


Eichenwald says:

"...movement, yes. But African American communities are the leaders, not you. They set the agenda, not you. The phrase is "Black Lives Matter" not "Defund the Police.""



Front page of BLM site:



https://blacklivesmatter.com/

[pnwmom]

30. "Defund the police" is a slogan that could cost us the election. Some of us don't care about that

but if we lose the election we lose the democracy.

[melman]

44. So you're saying BLM is trying to torpedo the election

That's an interesting take.

[pnwmom]

45. I'm saying they're tone deaf and the Defund the Police brand would be used against us.

[melman]

46. Tone deaf!

Holy shit.

[pnwmom]

48. They either don't understand how that term will be understood by 90% of people

or they just don't care.

[melman]

50. So they don't understand or care and you know better

Wow.

[pnwmom]

53. I know better than you do, that's clear. n/t

[melman]

55. This is isn't about me

This is about you saying BLM doesn't understand or care what they're doing. And may in fact be trying to sabotage the election.

This is what you've said. It's all there in your posts as anyone reading can see.


So your attempted diversion of trying to bait a hostile response by insulting me is a big fail. So sorry.

[pnwmom]

57. You're twisting my words. That's your specialty. nt

[melman]

60. I certainly am not

They're there for everyone to see.

[Blue_true]

26. I totally agree. "Defund the Police" is such a galactically stupid phrase.

We should aggressively reform police departments so that cops that behave dangerously toward law abiding citizens lose their badges. But, even as the problem with police is a large one, taking a meat cleaver to it will only set up back.

[BrightKnight]

31. Restructure, rebuild failing or failed departments but

Control the message

Restore the Obama reforms that Trump removed.

[superpatriotman]

34. Agree with this horrible messaging

The American people don’t care about details. Only slogans.

[George II]

35. Sadly very few have put for an explanation of "Defund the police", and those that try...

...don't even get close.

Kamala Harris was on the View yesterday, and she hit the nail on the head (and slapped back at Meghan McCain in the process) What she did was explain that "defund the police" is wrong.

It was beautiful to watch:

[Sunsky]

40. Bravo Sen. Harris

When a 23-year-old autistic man carrying a toy truck wandered from a mental health center out into the street Monday, a worker there named Charles Kinsey went to retrieve him.

A few minutes later the autistic man was still sitting cross-legged blocking the roadway while playing with the small, rectangular white toy. And Kinsey was prone on the ground next to him — a bullet from an assault rifle fired by a police officer having struck his leg.

https://www.miamiherald.com/news/local/crime/article90905442.html

According to the Sun Sentinel, Woodstock's brother, O'Neil Woodstock, called police early the morning of September 30, 2014, and said his brother had stopped taking his medication. He told cops that Woodstock had grabbed a knife and was stabbing holes in tires outside. He begged Sunrise Police to use the Baker Act to forcibly commit his brother to a mental institution.

But when police arrived, Sunrise cops say Marlon tried to run away. Eventually, the cops cornered Woodstock in a Walgreens parking lot around 11 a.m., but instead of calmly working to encourage Marlon to drop the knife he was carrying, the cops instead fired Tasers at him. Police say the stun guns didn't work.

The suit then alleges Sunrise Police shocked him a second time while he was prone and then unleashed a police dog on him. According to the suit, the dog bit Woodstock's leg.

"On the ground and not verbally responsive, Officer Gregory Loor then fired a gun shot, which struck [Woodstock], and soon thereafter, fired a second gunshot which also struck [Woodstock]," the suit says.

https://www.miaminewtimes.com/news/sunrise-police-sued-for-fatally-shooting-mentally-ill-man-9115229

Situations like these are best suited for mobile medical response teams or crisis response teams and not the police.

[pnwmom]

42. And what happens when an autistic person is shot by a robber?

Just call in a mental health counseling team?

Just because some situations are better handled by crisis response teams doesn't mean every situation is.

[Sunsky]

52. You're reaching here

I never said every situation or do away with policing. There is no way that can be extrapolated from my sentence. The word some implies not all, so this is much ado about nothing. One has to ask, what's the motive? I don't support more of the same.

[pnwmom]

54. No, I'm not. "DEFUND THE POLICE" are words with literal meanings.

It would be stupid for us to adopt a slogan whose literal meaning isn't something we actually support.

de·fund
/dēˈfənd/
Learn to pronounce

prevent from continuing to receive funds.

"the California Legislature has defunded the Industrial Welfare Commission"

[Sunsky]

65. Was your response to my post

Or a general response. I posted two instances in which I thought was fitting because it showed circumstances where I believe resources were more fitting for other departments than the police, in response to a post about Kamala Harris' speech.
If you had listened to most of the prominent people calling for defunding the police, you would have heard their explanation and that it has nothing to do with getting rid of the police. Yes, there's a small outcry for disbanding the police, which has worked before. However, the defund organizers explain that it's about diverting some funding to help the community. Kamala explained the over-policing of black and minority communities.
There are connotative and denotative meanings to words. If we listen, we'll understand what is being said but some of us aren't interested. But those of us who have a vested interest change will listen and learn.

[pnwmom]

67. I don't care what their INTENTIONS are. I care about the PLAIN MEANING of the stupid slogan.

That is what most voters would hear, and it would decrease overall support for Democrats.

It makes no sense to choose a slogan whose literal meaning doesn't fit our policy AND whose literal meaning most voters would oppose.

[Sunsky]

69. I don't care

I care about my life and my children's life. I care about my fellow African Americans who are preyed upon by predator cops, my Hispanic brothers and sisters being caged like animals, and all other minority groups who are harassed and mistreated for being who they are.
The words that this one or that one care about don't mean a thing to me. Life matters.

[pnwmom]

71. Yes, the bottom line is that life matters. Unfortunately, the words that you don't care about

would be splashed every day in Trump ads, and used against us. And it wouldn't matter how many times we explained our real intent, they'd keep throwing that phrase in voters faces.

The Republicans have won too many elections posing as the law and order party. A misguided slogan like "defund the police" would play right into their hands.

[Sunsky]

76. The "misguided" slogan

Will not be the reason they win, if God forbid they do. Just the act of black people voicing their grievance is a problem for some. Let's be real. Racists will always find a way to stifle the voice of "the others". They will claim law and order as long as "the blacks" mouths are opened. As evidenced by Tucker Carlson's recent rant. That is reality.

[R B Garr]

36. +++It's an absolutely ridiculous slogan. Trump is already deliberately calling it "disband"

the police because the con man knows that he can easily distort it. Who couldn't see that coming.

People will roll their eyes and turn the channel on this completely self-defeating slogan.

Biden is right -- make it about honor and decency. Who could be against that??

[WhiskeyGrinder]

38. It's frustrating that so many people respond to "defund the police" or "abolish the police"

with "gotchas" as if people who have been working on this issue for years haven't thought of "what about rapists tho." And for him to imply that it's white people pushing this narrative over black voices is insulting and offensive.

[Sunsky]

39. BS

There's no hijacking of the effort. It was born out of the black lives matter movement, so Kurt may not be able to understand it. He speaks for many of course because he's a part of the majority. I love Kurt but sometimes it pays to just sit and listen. I know he's of Jewish background but that isn't worn on the outside of the skin, so people won't judge you just by looking at you. I was vocally in support of him when he was targeted on twitter but I disagree with him on this.
Did Eichenwald know that many in the black community are fearful of calling the police even when they need them? How wonderful for you to feel safe when you are robbed, that the police won't come and assume that you are the robber and you end up dead. It must be nice to have the peace of mind that the police will do their jobs and the perpetrators will be brought to justice. Some of us do not have that luxury. Some of us call the police and end up dying. Some of our neighbors call the police out of concern for us and we end up dying at their hands while playing video games.
The defund the police movement is not a remove the police movement. It is about diverting some of the money from policing to rehabilitation programs and the restoration of black and other minority communities. The defund the police movement is not just a slogan, it is taking into consideration the years of abuse and mistreatment of African Americans at the hands of those who were supposed to be protecting and serving us.
The black community is thinking beyond one election, the systemic problem has been ongoing for many years and under both parties. Change is a must. One of the many reasons I loved Hillary is that criminal justice reform was one of her key platforms. I believe Hillary would've tried to make substantive changes. This systemic problem has been in place despite who is in power. Think about how this is psychologically impacting the black community. Witnessing our brothers and sisters dying simply because of their skin color and also wonder when will it come to our doorsteps? We have gotten a few cities to rethink their policing budgets and that's a start. We are fighting for our lives. If Democrats continue to behave like this issue is only about this election cycle and not about the lives of black people, this will create division and suppress votes in minority communities.

[pnwmom]

41. I know what the origin is and that doesn't make the slogan smart.

As you said: "The defund the police movement is not a remove the police movement."

Unfortunately, that's what it would sound like to 90% of the people who hear it.

Criminal justice reform is what Hillary supported and Biden is now calling for. Major structural reform, yes.

"Defunding the police" is a platform that would lose us the election.

[Sunsky]

63. I don't believe your figures but

That is not the overall message. Also, change isn't always uncomfortable. Sometimes, it pays to listen. Biden has already made a statement on this matter. However, some of us are fighting for our lives.
We're all entitled to our beliefs and I don't believe it will cost us the election. What will lose us the election is being weak and fickle, turning against each other because of what the Republicans will do or say, and not having strong convictions. These Republicans will bounce us around like a yo-yo. We should learn that lesson from 2016.
I'm going to follow my advice and I won't go back and forth with another Democrat over an opinion. I don't give a damn about what team Trump will do or say.

[pwb]

43. I get what it says.

Around here police departments have been defunded and eliminated. County sheriffs started patrolling and everything is good.

[pnwmom]

47. When most people hear "defund the police" that would include the county sheriff

and any other law enforcement.

[Caliman73]

56. So then what we have is not a messaging problem...

It is that people are ignorant and jump to conclusions.

Sounds like a problem of critical thinking more than messaging. I was one of those who knee jerked, but then I took time to look into what it means and I agree with the process.


More police, better "trained" police are not going to solve the problem. Funding programs with proven track records at reducing crime at the source will reduce the need to have more and "better" police.


Using part of the 193 million dollar budget of the Minneapolis PD's budget to provide housing, counseling services, and SUD treatment would go a longer way in decreasing the causes of crime.

There would still be police, but they would be responding only when there are major safety issues not to situations where their presence escalates the problem.

[pnwmom]

59. THAT IS THE POINT. A poor, easily misunderstood slogan is a messaging problem

that we can easily avoid by choosing better words to get the message across.

Fortunately, Biden is on it.

[Caliman73]

61. That is fine. Biden needs to run his campaign.

The movement to prioritize funding away from police, to better solutions for society will continue.


People need to work on their critical thinking skills and not depend on easy simplistic messaging.

[pnwmom]

62. LOL. We can't force voters to "work on their critical thinking skills."

All we can do is use our critical thinking skills to not use stupid slogans in Democratic campaigns.

[Caliman73]

68. OR... and this is just a stab in the dark...

We can use our critical thinking to find information rather than have knee jerk reactions to things that we have misunderstood...

Just saying....

With that, I bid you good day.

[pwb]

64. I think of local city police.

Guess I am not most people.

[Kaleva]

49. I don't know of any of our party leaders who are supporting that.

[ismnotwasm]

66. K&R

It’s dumb.

[jalan48]

70. The Republican attack ads are ready. Defund the Police superimposed over video of looters

carrying stuff out of ransacked stores. There go those suburban Republicans Biden thinks he can win back.

[pnwmom]

72. +1000. nt

[melman]

74. Speaking of videos

How about the videos of police violence we've seen over the last weeks? Countless unprovoked attacks on peaceful protesters.


How anyone can see shit like that and think this is a time for mild slogans is beyond me.

[jalan48]

75. Yes, those videos are awful and the police responsible should be held accountable. However,

we have to win the coming election and saying things like defund the police will lose more votes for us that it gains IMHO.