My gut says Harris will be (and should be) the VP pick, but she's not without a couple flaws.

[Music Man]

Biden's number one priority is that the person can be president on day one. To me, that's likely either Harris or Warren. In my humble opinion, it rules out Abrams or Demings. Sorry, Abrams and Demings fans. Tammy Duckworth is a dark horse too, I think.

Harris has experience with national media. Her best moments in the campaign came during the debate, and the VP will have one shot against Pence.

Harris will also excite turnout, being (relatively) young, black, and progressive enough to excite our base but not threatening enough to scare independents. Biden is currently crushing the national polls and leading in the swing states. Turnout will be the difference between a landslide Biden victory and a narrow Biden loss. Warren will encourage turnout as well, but I'm afraid there will be an equal effect in energizing the Trump base to get out and defeat her.

Current events are also revealing popular support for a woman of color. I think Warren is best poised to be president, but I can honestly see a sense of deflation among many Democrats right now if she is the pick. I want the breaking news about Biden's pick to elicit a "Hell, yeah!" response, and I sense a Warren selection would bring, "Alright! That's... fine!" Fair or not, I believe that's the zeitgeist.

Finally, this campaign began with Harris and Biden having a disagreement about racial policies of the '70s ("That little girl was me".) A Biden-Harris ticket would show that Biden is about reconciliation and that they can have debates without taking things personally and that Biden welcomes criticism. Harris would also be a buffer to critiques of Biden as having a problematic history on race. In fact, I think Biden would like to have someone like Harris in his administration to check him on his blindspots to racial equity.

Anyway, as to her flaws, I think it's important to remember that Harris' presidential campaign was quite mediocre. Criticism of her record as California Attorney General really hurt her, and she was among the first to drop out. It's easy to think, "Oh! She's young and a woman of color! She's a transformational politician." But I think she has had a problem connecting with voters. She is a former prosecutor who comes across as... a prosecutor. Warren connected to working class struggles. She has some warmth. Harris is not warm, at least not in campaign mode. And if she is possibly to be the standard bearer after Biden, she will have to work on this. Whether sexism plays a role or not, I foresee Harris having a similar problem as Hillary Clinton, and that is a perception by voters that she is talking at them instead of with them (or listening to them).

To me, Biden-Harris makes the most sense. It also has a hell of a ring to it

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. So find us someone flawless, and good luck with that.

[crickets]

2. +1

[Music Man]

4. Just fostering a discussion.

I don't believe I said there were better (or flawless) choices out there.

It seems like you focused on the "flaws" part of my headline and went into battle mode. Maybe you can read my post again and remember the fact that I think Harris should be the VP pick and it is something I'm excited about.

[Squidly]

61. I think what Ocelot was trying to say was that everyone has flaws

And good luck trying to find someone who doesn't.
At least that's what I got from the comment.

[JI7]

3. This analysis is flawed because Warren did not win the working class. Joe Biden was the one that won

the working class. Warren also did not win her own state.

Harris is very warm and Biden himself would say so .

I do agree that Harris would have the same problem as Hillary Clinton in that they both are hated by a certain right wing leaning bigoted Crowd that has issues with women and people of color.

[betsuni]

17. +1

[Hoyt]

5. I think Harris would be great for our chances in November. I actually think Rice would

be a better VP, mainly because of her foreign policy experience. We have a lot to repair there, as well as domestically. There are a few others who would be great too.

There was a poll posted here today that I think showed Harris’ preference at 28%, Warren 13%, Rice at 2%, etc. Not sure how good the poll is.

But, I’m fine with whatever lady helps us beat trump, and set us up for 2024.

[Music Man]

8. Yes, I think Harris does offer the best electoral chances

While still being presidential material.

I get worried about Rice, who has never run a national campaign (or any kind of campaign) and does not have a history working on domestic issues.

Someone might say that Trump did not have any political experience, but he was a television personality. He knew how to bullshit people. Rice is not that same kind of person.

[blm]

32. It won't be Rice. The media narrative would focus on her son

who is working to re-elect Trump.

[Pisces]

6. What if he picked Condaleeza Rice? I am not for it, just wondering aloud

[Music Man]

10. Do you mean Susan Rice?

Because Condoleeza Rice will never happen. It would be the ultimate "What the fuck?" moment for Democrats.

[procon]

12. A Republican? Wrong Rice, perhaps? nt

[PufPuf23]

7. Now Harris looks to be to be a fine VP candidate in 2020 and possibly a future POTUS

Have voted for Harris in California elections and never have been much the supporter until now, where she appears to be the one for this troubled time. Harris is smart and experienced and grew her political chops in California. Kamala Harris is ready to rumble Fall 2020. If not VP, Attorney General would be a good fit.

[procon]

9. I like Harris, but I agree with your assessment of her

somewhat cool personality. As a lawyer, that's probably a very desirable trait for someone who needs to appear unflappable and brilliant in her profession.

She was not all that likable in her short lived presidential campaign, and frequently came across as cold and disinterested. Lawyers and politicians share one characteristic, they are great actors. Sure, Harris could learn to be more engaging and likable, but would she look authentic and genuine or come across as a fraud?

As VP she will be expected to run for the presidency where her personality must be appealing and charming. I don't know if she can be all that, so I'm gonna reserve my thumbs up for now.

[Awsi Dooger]

40. The assessment by the OP was excellent

Harris would have been awful atop the ticket. It was my fear until she thankfully dropped out. As the OP mentioned she comes across as a prosecutor, and as you mentioned that translated to not likable during the campaign.

There is no way Harris would have connected with female swing voters. The reason I hosted those debate watching parties for so many years in the first place was to get a birds eye view of what type of personality clicks, and the type that is rejected.

The barking female prosecutor style is lambasted from all directions. That's why I was in such disbelief here and elsewhere when Harris' questioning of Kavanuagh was somehow viewed as a positive toward her chances in 2020. It should have been a siren in the opposite direction.

That said, filling an enthusiasm/balance role as vice president makes a lot of sense. Maybe Kamala could appear on talk shows while campaigning -- and hopefully as vice president -- to loosen up her style and image.

[MaryMagdaline]

74. She's a good contrast to Biden

Biden is warm and fuzzy ... Harris is cool and detached

[StarfishSaver]

11. I'm not interested in her flaws, any more than I'm interested in Biden's

(although, for some reason, women candidates' flaws are always focused on while men's tend to be ignored).

We have a few months to get Biden elected. I'm going to focus obsessively and exclusively on our candidates' attributes and leave the conversations about their flaws to the Republicans.

[brer cat]

16. +++ nt

[TheFarseer]

13. Harris does not excite progressives

Sorry, just doesn't. It's pretty much Warren all alone in the excites progressives lane.

[StarfishSaver]

19. I'm a progressive and she excited me

And most progressives I know are also excited about her.

[JI7]

20. Those so called progressives she doesn't excite are the ones that preferred Trump over Hillary

[Marrah_Goodman]

69. Sorry but that is bullshit

I am a very left progressive. Harris does zero to bring any excitement to the campaign for me. I voted for Hillary.

[smirkymonkey]

52. Same here. And I do find her warm and engaging.

She has a wonderful sense of humor and a charming personality. I'm from MA and although I admire Warren as a Senator and lawmaker, I find her personality somewhat grating and condescending.

I can see Kamala bringing in the youth vote as well, which Joe desperately needs.

[betsuni]

27. She's one of the most progressive Senators.

More progressive than Bernie Sanders or Warren. Why wouldn't a progressive be excited about that?

[ZZenith]

44. Au contraire, mon frer.

Know quite a few raging progressives who had her as their #1 choice from the outset.

[Blasphemer]

47. Interestingly.... in that poll that was posted, she was neck and neck with Warren...

In terms of the progressive voters (22% Warren, 18% Harris). Warren and Harris are good friends and they are ideologically aligned. Warren would no doubt give full-throated support for Harris's selection. I don't see this being a problem.

[mcar]

55. She excites the base of our party

[MaryMagdaline]

75. She excites the base which is AA and female

Sorry progressives haven’t won for us. Yet. (Not giving up on them). AA and female have carried this party on their backs. Especially AA female. They put Biden over the top. Biden’s not going to forget that.

[DFW]

14. It's not that Harris comes across as a prosecutor

It's her record as an over-zealous prosecutor that could be a problem with the very constituency she is supposed to fire up. A presidential campaign is not the time to start major damage control over a record that can't be erased. Republicans will exploit this with our own constituency. It may have a hell of a ring to it, but it makes little sense to me.

If I were Joe Biden, I wouldn't forget her eager role in trashing Al Franken, either (I know, the over-eager prosecutor thing again). What she couldn't accomplish in the primaries, she could try by finding some reason she would "regretfully have to urge her good friend Joe Biden to step down," a very convenient path to a presidency the voters clearly showed in the primaries that they didn't want. Same goes for Warren, by the way. Biden's only protection is that he will probably indicate an intention to serve only one term, and, hopefully, will choose Secretaries of State and Treasury with the smarts and the energy to refloat the sunken ships of our foreign and economic policy. He owes it to the country to consider those positions at least as carefully as his VP pick.

Like the pandering editorial pundits of late, Amy Klobuchar has added her voice to who "should" be Biden's VP pick. I hope he doesn't listen. His VP pick should be the best one for the campaign and for the job. The only color I want to hear about is BLUE.

[Maven]

15. Oh, here we go. The woman candidate has 'flaws'

Tell us more.

[StarfishSaver]

21. IKR?

Not only are women's flaws treated very differently than men's, their flaws are also blamed when they lose.

How many times have we heard, "Yes, yes, there were the Russians, Comey, voter suppression and irresponsible media, but Hillary WAS a FLAWED candidate." But "John Kerry would have won if he hadn't been swiftboated."

[Music Man]

24. I suspected I'd get get that strawman argument.

Are women candidates exempt from any discussion of pros and cons?

Harris is likely a top VP choice, hence her flaws will also be a part of the equation. Heck, ALL of the options this year are women. Were it a man being talked about, we'd be discussing their traits too.

[Maven]

54. Strawman? I don't think so.

Your comment about Sen. Harris' lack of 'warmth' is very telling. As is your dig about Hillary talking 'at' voters instead of 'to' them.

I see you've been here since 2012, so please point me to your thread examining the flaws of Tim Kaine and his warmth and ability to connect with voters instead of talking 'at' them. Thanks in advance.

[StarfishSaver]

59. Thank you

[betsuni]

57. +1

[roamer65]

18. Pence the Dense versus Harris?

Easiest decision I’ll ever make.

Biden-Harris 2020.

[Music Man]

29. Yes, she's incredibly sharp. The Pence-Harris moment will be must see TV :)

The best part is that Pence will have to talk to a woman other than his wife without someone else there.

[roamer65]

31. Oooooooo.....THIS.

You’re right.

[ZZenith]

46. I think Harris should flirt with him, hard.

Really get him flustered.



I kid, I kid.

[liberaltrucker]

51. Why kid about it?

Hell, that would be big $$ on pay per view.

[Pantagruel]

22. Harris checks all the boxes

and importantly her Senate replacement will undoubtedly be a steadfast progressive.

[Music Man]

26. Excellent point about her Senate replacement.

[Scruffy1]

23. I think she would be a fool to take the job.

A senator has a lot of power. A vice president none at all. Stacy is the best option.

[UncleTomsEvilBrother]

25. Hillary went the safe route...

...and it did not move the needle in her favor at all. Honestly speaking, Tim Kain might've been the best VP selection of any party in years, but he lacked charisma and could not seem to grab the heartstrings of the American public at all.

Someone like Harris has a story to tell, and all of America has seen her style of governing and debate. I think her "flaws" would draw good attention to her because we can always compare hers to the current administration's.

My concern with Kamala is that she doesn't have whiteness or maleness on her side. This current administration has no idea what it's foreign policy is, but they talk a big game. As a Black woman, Harris will have to convince the public that she would be ready to conduct foreign policy if something were to happen to Joe.

Geezus, Hillary was F*cking qualified for this job!

[SiliconValley_Dem]

39. whatever. Kamala is ready on day 1. f***. you saw Trump's foreign

policy. she would run circles around that.

if Biden chose to leave after 1 term, she would be a natural to run and be our first female president.

[MyMission]

28. Too bad WE can't vote to nominate VP

I would like to know more, and have learned a bit about the various contenders Biden is considering, especially women of color. The VP could very well become president during Biden's term, even before running in 2024.

I am torn about Harris. I like that she is younger and a woman of color. But her prosecutor experience and record show her hard side, and her lack of warmth and connection to primary voters is telling. Hopefully she can and will work on that.

Also, while it was mentioned that she irritates conservatives, I perceive she also irritates the liberal side of the Democratic party a bit. Those folks went for Warren, like me, or Sanders, Biden, or others before Harris. But I could see her energizing voters, to a degree.

My gut says that a woman who has not sought the nomination might be a better choice.
And a woman of color would be the best choice for showing inclusion and getting the vote out. But if Harris becomes the VP, I'm sure she'll do a good job.

It won't be long before we know Biden's choice.

[Music Man]

30. I try to remember that the VP role is a particular task in the campaign.

It both balances the top of the ticket and enhances whatever narrative they're trying to advance.

So Harris may have had a short-lived presidential campaign, but the combined forces of a Biden-Harris ticket could be magic. I think about the fact that Biden's '08 campaign didn't last long, but he was absolutely the person to help Obama.

[DrToast]

33. "Harris' presidential campaign was quite mediocre."

All that could be said about Biden in 2008 and he turned out to be an amazing VP.

[Calista241]

34. The only question is which VP candidate

Can help Biden win Arizona, Florida, Pennsylvania, Michigan and / or Wisconsin. Maybe North Carolina makes that list also.

I don’t have a lot of faith in Harris or Warren helping Biden with that constituency, given their primary performances. I care about winning the electoral college. The popular vote, while meaningful, doesn’t mean jack shit at the end of the day.

[StarfishSaver]

60. Why do you think Harris couldn't help in those states?

Last edited Fri Jun 19, 2020, 08:23 AM - Edit history (1)

Those states are full of people to whom she would appeal, many of whom sat out the last election and aren't too terribly excited about Biden, but would crawl over broken glass to vote for a ticket with her on it. And those are likely the voters that will make the difference in this election.

[Tech]

62. From Wisconsin, and I really like her.

[Archetypist]

35. I think she would be a great pick.

Sharp and quick-witted. Policies not as progressive as some would like, but enough to please enough progressives and moderates. I aiso think the symbolism of a woman of color matters this year particularly.

[Music Man]

36. I agree on every count.

Something about it just feels right to me.

[Hekate]

37. Well get it off your chest now, because shortly we are going to circle the wagons around whoever...

... Joe Biden picks.

Like Joe Biden himself, Kamala Harris (and all the rest) cannot walk on water. But, and this is important, they can all swim very very fast.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

38. dark horse?

[Music Man]

41. A surprise or relatively unknown contender.

Which Duckworth would be.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

42. i know. just a tad bit "on the nose" when talking about AA women

[Music Man]

49. I considered using a different term because I assumed someone would say something,

But "dark horse" isn't a racial slur in its origins (or any of its uses), and it is a widely accepted political phrase. There's also nothing to indicate I reserve it solely for people of color, so I feel like any criticism of it would be reaching.

[Raine]

43. I agree, also she brings a state that's already solid blue

someone from a red state could be of more value in putting another state in play for Electorial Votes.

[Music Man]

50. I don't think states (or even geography) matters as much anymore.

I'm not even sure it has ever really mattered. Maybe LBJ helping JFK win Texas.

I think VP selections are about overarching narratives and perhaps bringing in a particular demographic. Paul Ryan couldn't help Romney win Wisconsin. John Edwards didn't help Kerry win North Carolina. On the other hand, Dick Cheney was from Wyoming, not an electoral necessity, but his status as an old, foreign policy-oriented, Washington insider balanced with Bush. Joe Biden's political experience and connection with white independents balanced with Obama, though Delaware wasn't a factor. Gore and Clinton came from neighboring states.

[StevieM]

45. I don't think Hillary really had that problem which you referenced.

I think she lost because the the GOP tricked the American people into believing that she somehow broke the law and got away with it.

[betsuni]

58. +1

[SidDithers]

48. From Bakari Sellers...

Link to tweet

That's why Kamala Harris is a better choice than Elizabeth Warren.

Because she'll activate the base.

Sid

[Trumpocalypse]

53. No the number one priority is someone

who helps the ticket win in November. Nothing else matters if they don’t win. Unfortunately Harris has more minuses than pluses in that regard. First she comes from a solid blue state and doesn’t put any swing states in to play. Second, she won’t excite either progressives or African American voters due to her history as a prosecutor. Every from her policy of imprisoning the parents truant children which impact heavily the poor and minorities to her resistance to reform repeals both groups. Finally, her attacks on Biden during the debates are a gift to the GOP and an GOP attack ad that writes itself. There are far better choices than Harris available.

[DFW]

56. No one should forget the media aspect. Biden already had that ad with Lindey Graham trashing Trump.

Republicans will do exactly the same thing with the Harris jab at Biden during the debate.

Once an over-zealous prosecutor, always an over-zealous prosecutor. We can do better.
Maybe Biden will choose not to, but I hope he does.

[OnDoutside]

71. This.

And I am concerned how she not so much flopped, but failed to fire. People seem to forget that she didn't even make it to Iowa, or even 2020, yet there are plenty of posts here saying how Kamala will fire up the race ! I want a POC to be the VP pick, and think Stacey Abrams would be excellent for many reasons, though I understand people citing her (relative) lack of experience, but Harris has a lot of unanswered questions for me.

[Trumpocalypse]

76. Thanks

Harris may be the pick. Many seem to be pushing for her and she does seem to be campaigning for it. However, I have heard from too many progressives and African Americans that she doesn't excite them and have real qualms about her. Add to that she doesn't help in any swing states.

[OnDoutside]

70. Well said.

[honest.abe]

64. So lets focus on those "couple of flaws".

Last edited Fri Jun 19, 2020, 08:53 AM - Edit history (1)

[Sunsky]

65. Hopefully, she has been preparing

To answer the questions on her AG record in case she's chosen. She was my first choice during the primary but I must say, she was ill-prepared to answer questions on her record. I also believe that she should work on her nervous chuckle. I love that she's smart, eloquent, and a fighter. Qualities that team trump does not possess, except fighting.

However, as a black American, I must say if we allow the racist in chief to influence us to vote against an African American champion. Someone who has proven herself in recent years to be one of the top policymakers who is fighting for us. We are doomed.

[helpisontheway]

66. I don't care for Kamala as a running mate for Buden

She ruined it for me with the debate stunt. I do love to watch her grill people before the committee. I also enjoyed a video of her trying to teach Senator Warner how to cook. It showed a fun side of both of them. However, the way she went after Biden really bothers me. I want him to have someone that is loyal to him as he was (and still is) to President Obama.

I wonder how Beau would feel to know that his former colleague (and I guess friend) attacked his dad on that level. I love Elizabeth Warren (except for MFA) but she does not really seem that comfortable with Biden. They are very different. However, Warren is exciting and engaging. However, the right has made her the bogeyman like Hillary. So if Warren runs for president after a Biden administration we might not be able to pull out another win. The business people would do everything to prevent a Warren win..

[Marrah_Goodman]

67. Harris elicits no excitement for me

I felt the same way about Kaine.

[Johnny2X2X]

68. It has to be Harris

If Biden picks Warren (My personal favorite) and loses, for history people will be saying, "In the middle of the biggest civil rights uprising for black Americans since MLK, Joe could have picked a well qualified, popular, and likable African American woman and he didn't, that was the worst pick in history."

Harris has a great resume and she's ready for this. This is the perfect moment in history for her to be picked.

[OnDoutside]

72. Can you outline her great resume and how she's ready for this ?

[Johnny2X2X]

73. She's got a great record

AG in the largest state in the union for 6 years and then US senator.

Kamala Harris' lifetime ratings[1][2]
Date Organization Advocacy Lifetime rating
2019 Alliance for Retired Americans Retirees 100%
2017-2019 American Civil Liberties Union Civil liberties 93%
2017-2019 AFL-CIO Trade unions 100%
2017 AFSCME Public-sector trade unions 86%
2018 Center for Biological Diversity Endangered species 89%
2019-2020 Children's Defense Fund Children's advocacy 100%
2017 Club for Growth Taxes 4%
2017-2018 FreedomWorks Government operations 29%
2017-2018 Human Rights Campaign LGBTQ rights 100%
2019 League of Conservation Voters Environmentalism 91%
2017-2018 National Association for the Advancement of Colored People Civil rights 100%
2019 National Association of Police Organizations Law enforceme 100%
2010-2019 NARAL Pro-choice 100%
2019 National Education Association Education 100%
2010-2016 National Rifle Association Guns 7%
2017-2019 Planned Parenthood Pro-choice 100%
2018 United States Chamber of Commerce Business 30%

[Trumpocalypse]

77. Those are ratings, not a record

What is Harris' record of achievement? What legislation has she sponsored and gotten passed into law?

[OnDoutside]

79. Exactly, and not a surprise coming from the bluest of states.

[lettucebe]

78. Name one person without a couple flaws? I'll wait