The horns of a dilemma

[brooklynite]

While taking a walk, I saw a bunch of African American kids who had gotten in to a closed playground and were playing basketball without a mask.

Should I report it as a community health risk?

Should I not report it because of previous selective enforcement of mask rules?

[ace3csusm]

1. At this point people need to start taking personal responsiblity ...

We can lead a horse to water but we can't force them to drink... Stay safe take precautions to keep yourself safe...

[Ms. Toad]

2. Use the same rule you use to decide about reporting in any other instance.

Personally, I'm reporting every instance. But it is easier here because individuals are not required to wear masks. So if I go into a store and they are not providing a visible means to socially distance at congregating areas (check-out register, line for pharmacist, etc.), or their employees are not wearing masks (or are wearing them as necklaces or chin slings) I make a report to the local health department. Period.

I don't have to think - should I report in this instance? It's just an automatic response to seeing a violation.

[LizBeth]

4. Wow. I really had no idea people were doing this.

[Ms. Toad]

20. Keep in mind, Ohio does not require face masks - except in commercial establishments for employees

COVID 19 is highly contagious and deadly. I wish mask wearing was required by everyone - but it's not. So the small step I can take is when I go into a business that encouraging a culture of refusing to be safe, they need a little external encouragement.

Frankly, I'm surprised that you apparently care so little the extreme health risk posed by COVID 19 that it shocks you that some of us are doing everything we can to minimize the spread of COVID 19.

I did the same thing when I went into establishments that refused to implement bans on smoking. Both public health hazards, and it should surprise no one that the same places who refused to comply with bans on indoor smoking are also refusing to comply with the mandatory safety requirements for commercial establishments during COVID 19. If they are not inclined to comply with the law - the health department is the enforcment tool.

[LizBeth]

22. I wear my mask, isolate and do not go into the businesses that do not wear masks. 4 months in.

no pay. Yes, I take it seriously and I stand with what I said initially especially seeing the Gov has not put out all inside must wear a mask.

[Ms. Toad]

24. I would not report something that is not a violation.

the question was asked about two things that apparently ARE violations in that state:

1. Playing on a playground that was closed due to COVID
2. Not wearing masks - whch are required in that state.

Those are violations; IF I lived in that state, I would report them. (Note: addressing violations of public health orders falls on the health department, not the police. So some of the concern about what the police, specifically, might do is likely not relevant.)

As to protecting yourself - if we do not demand compliance (and report non-compliance), we will be unable to protect ourselves - just as we would have been had people not diligently reported the failure of businesses to comply with the bans on smoking.

[LizBeth]

25. Nope. I am not that person, nor do I want to be that person.

[Ms. Toad]

26. Thank you for assisting the virus spread, then. n/t

[LizBeth]

31. Bullshit. Of course you have to make yourself see it as righteous. Here you are.

[Ms. Toad]

33. Public health is all of our business.

Protecting yourself is a good first step, but our responsibilities don't end there. Turning a blind eye to activity that spreads the virus contributes to spreading it.

[LizBeth]

35. Righteous high horse. For sure. Praise the Lord and Amen.

[Ms. Toad]

37. Nope. Just acknowledging we're all responsible for public health.

Tuning a blind eye to businesses that refuse to follow public safety guidelines is only different in degree from mask-slackers whose position is that it is every person has to fend for themselves.

[LizBeth]

3. Seriously? I mean, seriously are you really considering kids outside playing basketball warrants any

interference from you? How about giving them a wide berth and go on your way.

[brooklynite]

5. State rules require masks. City rules also closed playgrounds because of previous crowding

[LizBeth]

9. 40 arrested for social distancing, 35 black. They focused on black areas and left white areas alone.

Fines and records now. You decide.

[LanternWaste]

14. Your alleged moral quandary seems more manufactured and self-congratulatory

than it does sincere and in good-faith.

As you argue against all but one option given, your quest for responses too seems (at best) more a quest to pat yourself on the back. And as no one is stopping you from doing so, by all means-- throw your shoulder out and give yourself a few hearty agenda-driven pats... no one can, or really even wants to deny you your ethical trophy.

[LizBeth]

17. +1

[fleur-de-lisa]

29. +2

[fleur-de-lisa]

13. +1

SMDH

[LizBeth]

16. Right.

[fleur-de-lisa]

28. We are required to wear masks in New Orleans and the mayor encourages citizens to report

any violations by BUSINESSES OR LARGE GROUPS OF PEOPLE.

But kids who are outside, ESPECIALLY BLACK KIDS, in this environment? With all the Karens roaming around calling the cops on people of color and the cops only too happy to shoot them?

No fucking way!!!

[LizBeth]

34. Right. Yes. Having kids, this just offends me. The Karen's immediately comes to mind, was thinking

the name for a man. And It stays with me reading an article stating NY cops arrested 40 for no personal space. 35 black. JUST not good enough.

[matt819]

6. None of your business

If you were going to play with them, then, sure, you can raise the issue. But confronting them? Now? No.

[brooklynite]

7. I said nothing about confronting them...I discuss the issue of reporting the violation

[ChazII]

12. Personally,

I would not report them. I would let authorities know that the basketball courts are being used and perhaps need to be checked on several time during the day. Some kids in my neighborhood climb the high school fence to use the track in the early morning. I would not report them but I did call the school district.

[scarletwoman]

8. NO! Don't report it. Just leave it be - they're not exposing you or anyone else, just themselves.

For all you know, they could all from the same household and have been cooped up indoors with each other for months anyway.

But the BIG reason to leave it be is that reporting them might end up with one or more of them getting shot by a cop. Just leave them be.

[ProfessorGAC]

10. +1

Besides, if we reported every instance, we'd be doing little else.
As weather warmed and things reopened, I've seen a 30% drop in mask compliance.
I'd be on the phone with IDPH 3 hours a day.
And, since there's no actual enforcement or legal consequences, it won't change a thing.
These are becoming "you do you" events, IMO.

[LizBeth]

18. Unless the cops can use it simply to arrest a black person, like they did with distancing.

[ProfessorGAC]

27. Well, There's That!

More a reason to let kids play ball. The OP said they were black kids.

[albacore]

11. I agree wholeheartedly that the kids should NOT be doing that..

If they were white, I might even report them. Might.

But black kids..? No way.

These days, that report might end up with a dead kid when the cops got there.

Not worth taking the chance.

[aidbo]

15. I think you should myob

[Hekate]

19. You might consider contributing your concerns to this thread (link)

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100213615036

You might give a shout-out to the kids. You might consider the actual consequences of involving cops, for gods' sake.

Aside from that, keep walking. Just myob. They are not in your air space, are they?

[marie999]

21. I would probably stop and watch them play.

It would be the best time I had that day.

[LizBeth]

36. Reason. So refreshing. I would probably stand 6 ft away from you, with a huge smile under my mask

and give you the thumbs up. You would love my masks. Finally got them. Couple peace signs with color and style, a tie die RAD and another in fun design to meet my man moods and colors.

Thank you. You made me feel a little better in this thread. I have a 22 and 25 yr old and they do well in distancing. And consideration. And isolated, but I can see them in those kids on the court.

[Ms. Toad]

23. From a public health perspective

I am appalled at the lack of understanding of public health orders, the serious nature of this illness, and the reality that no one (or no group) lives in an isolated bubble - that playground group could impact dozens, or even hundreds of people.

The rules are for the protection of ALL of us, not just those breathing the same air space at a given moment.

If (as is apparently the case here), the state has decided playgrounds are not safe - and you see someone playing on the closed playground, you report it.

It is all of our business, so reporting it is minding your own business.
It doesn't matter if it is your personal airspace - those within the airspace might very well go buy a coffee from my daughter at Starbucks and transmit it to her, transmit it to their sibling who cares for my great aunt in a nursing home; or their parent might acquire it from them and be in my classroom in a couple of weeks and infect several more students.

Rules for what is permitted and for safety precautions required are carefully designed to minimize the risk of transmission to protect all of us. Not just the small group of kids on the playground or those who come directly in contact with them. How successfully we are will determine whether we can avoid having to decide which person gets the single ICU bed, or ventilator.

COVID 19 did not go away or become less deadly just because there are other things that demand our attention.

[brush]

30. Calling cops on black kids or minding your own business? That shouldn't be a...

a hard decision since we all know too well what can result from interactions between black people and police.

And why did you say they were "black" kids and not just "kids"?

[hunter]

32. What's it like to live in a place where "authorities" pay attention to calls like that?

It sounds awful.

I saw a similar thing at our local park yesterday.

Living where we do, these young men ranged in skin tones from black to painful sun burn pink. Most were sort of an average brown.

Had I called the police they would have rolled their eyes loud enough to hear over the phone and politely directed me to their web site to file my report, with promises a community service officer would "review" it.

"Reviewed" is a little box the community service officer clicks on the submitted form before they click "Next."

I think it's somewhat interesting that most of the people I see violating social distancing and mask rules are teenage boys.

It makes me think all those adult men who are protesting masks and social distancing rules never grew up.