Poll for those who supported Hillary in '16 primary and the use of label "Karen"

[Kaleva]

48 votes, 2 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	I oppose the use of such a label
	17 (35%)
	I don't use it myself but don't mind if others do
	2 (4%)
	I haven't used it yet but may do so in the future.
	5 (10%)
	I have used the label and see no problem with it.
	24 (50%)
	2 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[dawg day]

1. Per exit polls, 52% of white women voted for Trump.

I doubt they were all named "Karen", but as a white woman who voted for Hillary, I do wonder if some of them expressing themselves now with this sort of passive-aggressive "whatever you're doing is not fair TO ME" behavior.

It does seem like many white-women-trump-voters are changing their mind. It's embarrassing it's taken this long.

[spooky3]

22. Per Pew Research, using better data than exit poll data, the actual number is lower than that.

Still too high (47%) but lower/better than 52%.

https://time.com/5422644/trump-white-women-2016/

[Squinch]

26. And it isn't 47% of white women. It's 47% of those white women who voted. Which is a much

lower number.

[StarfishSaver]

37. And the white women who didn't vote didn't vote for Hillary

so there's that ...

[Squinch]

44. But they also didn't vote for Trump.

[StarfishSaver]

47. But not voting for Hillary helped get Trump elected.

[whathehell]

30. That is a very SMALL majority..

and among college educated White Women, they were a Minority..All of them were GREATLY out numbered by White MEN, so the need for all this "shame" and "embarrassment" is being way overstated.

[spooky3]

56. Agree. If people are going to focus on demographic groups

They need to focus primarily on white men who voted for Trump or third party candidates.

[whathehell]

58. Thank you. n/t.

[delisen]

61. Far more w men voted for DTrump

This foolish meme started out as a label to smear women as unjustified complainers regarding poor service. It was used to promote the false idea that men do not complain and women are petty. It was used to try to keep women from asserting themselves in the public space-particularly older women who are often rendered invisible and discriminated against in our society and are the p
referred victims of con men because they have already been dismissed by society as of little value.

As some people decided to use it as a gendered term for incidents of visible white female racist behavior it met with much glee on the part of some on DU and has now morphed further into calls for
and promotion of violence against women. It is not just the right that has become more authoritarian in recent years.

Unjust societies which have used fear violence, segregation, otherization, bullying, denigration to bind themselves together and maintain their preferred power structure and status quo do not easily become just societies. First they engage in divide and conquer techniques .and then move to .make sure scapegoating continues by any means possible -as long as our society succeeds in doing this, we never achieve the just society.

[snort]

2. I would vote for Karen Clinton.

[Caliman73]

3. Don't use the label, but understand its use AND understand why people object to it.

No choice for that category.

It is complicated. What we are seeing is intersectionality. Two historically oppressed groups (Black people and Women) who are unfortunately interacting in a way that is problematic.


Sexism is as old as Racism. The absurdity of it all is that Rich White Men are responsible for BOTH and yet we see two disadvantaged groups going at it instead of putting the blame where it really lays.

White Male Supremacy must go!

[Kaleva]

8. Tht would be the 1st choice then for you.

[Caliman73]

20. But I don't oppose it.

Understanding people's objection to the use, does not make it offensive to me.

When I hear the name Karen, I do not immediately think "racist" or "a sexist meme".

I actually try to see the context.

There was a DU'er that was called "Karen" because she asked her neighbors to consider the psychological well being of her pets when launching illegal fireworks. That is a misuse and offensive.

The shorthand Karen, has been adopted by Black people to describe the BBQ Becky's, Dorm room Debbie's, Picnic Patty's, etc... who call police on Black people occupying "normal spaces" or another way, just living and being (but Black).

It is not a great situation for anyone.

[Kaleva]

29. I misunderstood your comment when you said you didn't use it yourself

I took that to mean you opposed it.

[Caliman73]

34. No worries.

It is a complicated issue the strays from a binary description.

I can certainly sympathize with women who feel it is offensive to ALL women, even though I may not necessarily agree in specific contexts.

[happybird]

11. +1

[spooky3]

23. +1

[DonaldsRump]

4. Some may be afflicted with the Karen-a-virus

I can't take credit for this: I read it in a Youtube comment on a video about Kar*ns.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Whatcha looking for here?

[qazplm135]

6. No problem with it

Not do I have a problem with John being used for toilets for example. Buster, Nervous Nelly, or other names tied to specific characters.

Karen is a euphemism just like the others. It very clearly is shorthand. It does not literally mean all women named Karen everywhere.

[Beakybird]

7. Spell it Qaren or go into Qarentine.

[mr_lebowski]

14. That's I suppose a fair compromise

If one must compromise.

I'm not planning to.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

9. Where's the option for...

..."It's lame, tired, unimaginative and has long seen its day"?

[jorgevlorgan]

10. "Karen" is a bigoted white woman.

It is not a term for all white women. There have been videos of "Karens" where it is not actually clear it is a "Karen." On the other hand, it really isnt fair for anybody actually named Karen who isnt bigoted.

[whathehell]

39. Bigoted white men are just bigoted white men

Why not the same for white women? Why are they being singled out for a snide nickname?
As one honest poster who identified as "not white and not a woman" admitted, "It's just misogyny'.

[jorgevlorgan]

46. Donald sounds like a good name for them.

[whathehell]

59. There you go.

Now, let's see if it's put into practice.

[EarnestPutz]

12. I think it's unkind to burden every Karen with this unneccessary baggage. I know....

....a few women named Karen and they are sweet people who deserve a little consideration.

[lame54]

24. Years have passed with absolutely no defense for...

Dick Peter John Roger or Felicia

What the fuck is so special about Karen?

[EarnestPutz]

64. Your use of the word "fuck" for emphasis tells me a lot about you.

[treestar]

65. How were those used?

Dick was never related to calling a penis that, it's short for Richard. However, it just refers to a part of male anatomy, nothing done by people named Dick.

Peter?

John?

Roger?

All the same thing, I imagine.

Felicia - again not used to describe behavior or attribute a behavior to a group of people.

[lame54]

67. Why are you pretending not to know any of these?

[treestar]

68. Why did you ignore my point?

Can't believe liberals are defending a sex based slur.

[mr_lebowski]

13. My response is ...

You have got to be kidding me right now.

People named Karen are not a historically persecuted peoples.

Give me a break. This is political correctness seriously run amok.

[dsc]

33. women aren't a historically persecuted people?

All righty then.

[mr_lebowski]

36. Of course they are. But 'Karen' is not and never was a generic word for women ...

If the word was 'Harpy' or 'B*tch' or the like, I would see your point.

[dsc]

40. It isn't being applied to men

now is it? And I have seen a whole bunch of calling women Karen for daring to stand up for themselves when in stores having nothing at all to do with race. This is a term that basically means what you wrote here but as you note can't be said without being universally acknowledged as sexist. If a woman is being racist, call her a racist. If a man is being racist, call him a racist. The fact is whenever a woman dares stand up for herself she is called a name.

[mr_lebowski]

45. If we started calling racist men 'Karen' that would be even worse, wouldn't it?

Are you complaining there's no generic name like 'Ken' for men who act like this?

If not, I would say that's more an oversight or coincidence than anything else.

Pretty sure it was just actual name of a women who was filmed being racist early on, it was like 'Campground Karen' or something (there was also 'Barbeque Becky' in Oakland, CA called the PoPo on the black family barbequing w/charcoal on the lawn at Lake Merritt ... Becky was her real name).

People have just arbitrarily stopped finding out the real name of the person and applying another word to match with it like 'Campground' and using a previous offender named Karen, as a generic.

There probably was just no famous male version, otherwise we'd call these racist dudes 'Ken' or whoever it was. I think that's totally arbitrary.

I don't condone referring to women as Karen just for standing up for themselves, for the record. This moniker should be reserved for racists since that's the association everyone made early on.

Being a "Karen" means being a female racist, caught on video.

What's wrong with having a simple name for the phenomenon?

[jorgevlorgan]

48. I like "Donald"

As the bigoted Male version.

[mr_lebowski]

52. Sounds great! If we all start generically calling racist dudes caught on video

"Donald"

that will even things out right?

Assuage these sexism complaints?

[jorgevlorgan]

53. works for me.

Or "Trump" even would work. It would also rile him up and keep us focused on him as the symbol of hate and intolerance. He is after all surely one who helped inspire some of these these tirades.

[dsc]

54. really you are going with there are no viral videos of racist rants by males?

and there is a generic term, racist.

[mr_lebowski]

55. Not what I said ...

I'm going with there was no famous, early (and alliterative) 'Campground Karens' (or whatever it was), or 'Barbeque Beckys' in male form, such that a particular person's name 'stuck' in the public sphere.

I don't think that's to do with gender. I think it's a coincidence.

If we all agree to start calling all the dudes in racist vids "Donald", will things be okay then?

[Kali]

15. I don't Kare n I think this is a silly hill to stake out a claim on

also I have a family member named Karen who fits the stereotype to a T.

[LanternWaste]

16. Nice fishing expedition...

Cool bait, but missing subtly when casting the line.

[RGinNJ]

17. My first name is Richard and I go by Dick, get over it.

[Crunchy Frog]

41. Being a Dick is your own choice.

It's a nickname, not your given name. You could have just as easily chosen to go with Rich, or Rick, or some other variant.

Karen is a given name, so not the exact same thing.

[JenniferJuniper]

18. Maybe I'll start using it when there is a "Kevin".

[spicysista]

25. There is, actually.

Men whom exhibit "Karen" like behavior are often referred to as Chad, Ian, or Ken. There are some subtle differences by region, though.

https://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term="IAN"%20%28male%20Karen%29

[StarfishSaver]

38. Biff

[spicysista]

42. Oh, I forgot about that one!

[hunter]

19. Nice poll, Karen...

I think I'll pass on this one.

[edhopper]

21. Complaigning about the term "Karen"

is a very Karen thing to do.

[BannonsLiver]

27. As long as I can call Trump "Bunker Bitch" I'm good.

[Squinch]

28. Why are you correlating "Hillary primary voters" and "Karens?"

Seriously. It's only fair that you answer this question.

If it matters, I am a bit tired of the joke now, but I am not particularly bothered by it.

[jcgoldie]

31. Not my poll

...but I feel the term is a bit misogynistic and I'm assuming the op was trying for a sample to leave out a certain segment of responders.

[Kaleva]

32. a comment I saw earlier

Where it was stated that there was a connection between the misogyny and sexism directed against Hillary back in 2016 and the use of the label.

"My guess is, if examined, we'd also find a fair amount of overlap between "Karen" perps and those who directed misogynistic malice toward Hillary.".

[Squinch]

43. I can see the problem with the Karen name. It is yet another derogatory term

which has a female gender and for which there is no male counterpart. But I feel we have bigger hills to die on.

We live in a world where misogyny and sexism are ingrained deep inside everyone and everything in our culture. If you think it's not ingrained in you, you are a bigger problem than if you know it is ingrained in you and regret that fact. It's a lot like racism that way.

It is deeply ingrained in me and I am a feminist woman.

It seemed like the sum total of the fear and hatred and malice that our culture has toward woman found a target in Hillary. When I saw the venom with which people treated Hillary, I became more aware of the venom and hatred our society holds toward me and all other women.

I don't really find the Karen joke to be on the same level as that filth and hatred that was thrown at Hillary. It DOES have elements of that hatred, given that racism has no gender and within the (not very significant) Karen joke, only women are being blamed for it. I don't use the term. I see why others are bothered by it. I am too exhausted by our world to fight against it. As I say, there are bigger things using up my energy.

But, hell. DU has taught me things in the past. Maybe I will learn that it is more powerful and insidious than I am thinking it is.

[hunter]

57. I voted for Hilary, if that concerns you. I have the badges and bumper stickers.

My family, and my wife's family, are matriarchal. Misogynists are quietly disposed of.

My great grandmas were Wild West, better than any man with a gun or a knife. And maybe worse, their tongues were so sharp they could kill a man with their words.

My wife is of a similar Wild West matriarchal family, and some of her ancestors were here long before that idiot sociopath Columbus crash landed in the Western hemisphere.

I haven't used "Karen" as anything more than a sarcastic response to the meme itself.

Sigh.

Misogyny exists on the left and the right.

I recall pot smoking guys my age who wore Birkenstocks, tie-dye tee shirts, wire rim glasses, and ate granola, but they were not any less misogynistic than the Ronald Reagan Republicans they despised. So maybe you've got something there. They probably voted for that white guy savior Bernie Sanders. I don't know that because I no longer converse with them.

Please don't alert on this post.

The last thing I want to do is make memes.

[Kaleva]

62. Why would anyone alert on your post?

If one accepts the results of the poll, then it appears that the great majority of Hillary supporters here don't have an issue with the meme and it's only a minority that does. And i think we would both agree that, based on the poll results, the use of "Karen" here isn't going away. Which makes me wonder why anyone who opposes its use would prefer to remain a member of a forum that accepts it. Kind of like a liberal being a member of a church tat says that gays are destined for hell and abortions ought to be illegal. My guess is that "Karen" really isn't that big a deal but that's just my opinion.

[boston bean]

35. I oppose it. Use the word for it. Racist.

[LizBeth]

49. +1

[texasfiddler]

50. My wife's name is Karen

She couldn’t be further from the caricature that the name implies. She is empathetic, caring and selfless. It hasn’t bothered her until it started being connected with racist women.

[USALiberal]

71. This is why we need to STOP using it!!! nt

[rictofen]

51. DU went through this nonsense last year with "wypipo"

Now it's "Karen". It may be something else soon. But whatever term is currently en vogue, I sense it gets used at DU for reasons beyond merely calling out problematic behaviors or attitudes in white people.

[EarnestPutz]

66. I missed the "wipipo" discussion last year. I'm glad I missed it.

[LeftInTX]

70. Wypipo was fun

[Hassin Bin Sober]

60. Where's the option for "I would like to speak to your manager"?

[Steelrolled]

63. Some of the Karen-mongers

actually seem to be nice people. It just goes to show.

[LeftInTX]

69. I propose a new meme, "Ivanka"

Ivanka is the epitome of white privilege.

[JustABozoOnThisBus]

72. Oops, had to undo my vote. In '16 I voted for Bernie in the primary.

Didn't vote for HRC until the general.