How much do you trust the Lincoln Project?

[kentuck]

It's hard to criticize someone who is helping to take down Putin's Puppet, but we must not lose sight of the fact that these people are conservative Republicans, moreso than they are friends of the Democrats. They just happen to be on our side this time.

But, they are not going to change to Democrats. They are trying to save the Republican Party as a conservative Party for the future. They know that Donald Trump is not a conservative.

If another Republican was running, instead of Trump, I'm certain their attack ads would be against the Democrats.

We should not look a gift horse in the mouth, but we should not overlook the fact that they are still conservatives, until they prove otherwise.

[Harker]

1. They're foul weather friends.

You're right to advise caution.

[LakeArenal]

2. Same place as Steve Schmidt, Nicole Wallace

[Binkie The Clown]

3. If my car is in a ditch...

... and someone comes along and offers to help me get it out, I'm not going to ask about his long term political goals. I'll thank him for the help and leave my options open as to how I interact with him under different circumstances.

[2naSalit]

13. +1

[lagomorph777]

16. Yup.

[smirkymonkey]

18. +1000

[obnoxiousdrunk]

33. +100. N/t

[USALiberal]

4. So any minute they will start supporting Trump?? Silly! nt

[PTWB]

24. They're allies against Trump.

As soon as Trump is gone, they’re enemies. I’m not sure why this is difficult or anyone thinks we need to trust them at all.

[USALiberal]

28. So you would rather they stop running ads? Really? nt

[PTWB]

37. How you got that from what I said I'll never know.

[rufus dog]

94. REALLY!

So, if you take your original comment, then take the letters, rearrange a bit, use some multiple time, then you can get the comment...
"So you you would rather they stop running ads? Really? nt (To be fair, you never had a question mark to pick, but what the hell, we can let the ignorant statement stand without a question mark.

Note: the first one to alert needs to really look at the statement being called out. The statement itself needs to be pulled.

As soon as Trump is gone, they’re enemies. I’m not sure why this is difficult or anyone thinks we need to trust them at all.

so

you

would

rather

they
stop
running
ads

[chia]

52. I'm willing to cross that bridge when I get to it. The ads are brilliant, they're hitting their mark

and doing the job in a way that might never been done otherwise.

[leftieNanner]

35. No. I don't think so.

They want to get rid of Trump AND his Republican enablers in the Senate. Look at how they have gone after Joni Ernst with one of their ads. I think they want a clean slate for their party. Don't know how they will accomplish that, with Q Anon followers winning primaries this year, but I think that is where they are headed.

[Hekate]

72. Their spokesmen (Schmidt and Wilson) have been clear that the Grand Old Party is rotten to the core

...and if they had their druthers, it would be be razed to the ground and started over from scratch. All of it. They’re going after Moscow Mitch.

I love them for what they are doing.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

5. Not at all.

[USALiberal]

14. So they are faking it? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

29. They are acting in their own interests, which have little in common with mine.

[USALiberal]

32. So you want them to stop? nt

[WhiskeyGrinder]

49. lol

[LanternWaste]

70. Using the False Dilemma fallacy reflects on you alone, not anyone else. nt, Part II

[USALiberal]

76. Why don't you fix your un-credited quote? nt

[Mike 03]

6. Guarded optimism

They are doing great work. Steve Schmidt is a treasure. But the last four years have taught me to worry about everything.

[hlthe2b]

7. I'll trust them to help rid us of Trump & some of the worst Trumpists. After that, all bets are off.

[BamaRefugee]

34. This is it. In a nutshell.

[crickets]

87. Yep. nt

[Liberal In Texas]

8. Enemy of my enemy.

Glad they're not using their resources against us, because they seem to have some powerful assets producing these ads.

But trust them? I don't trust repubs period.

[Squinch]

9. How much do I trust them to make great ads that get under Donny Bodybags's skin?

And lots of them? 100%

How much do I trust them to support Democratic legislation once we get rid of Donny Bodybags? Not much. But that doesn't detract from the fact that they are helping us now. And helping us a great deal.

[LeftInTX]

51. I wish Democrats could make great ads! Hope we learn from them.

Is there any hope for bipartisanship?

Who knows...we can only hope...maybe in the near future if Biden wins. We can hope it can be like the 70s after Nixon resigned. Of course 6 years later, we ended up with the extreme right wing in the White House.

Trump is so bad, that maybe they will change their tactics, temporarily even if Democrats are in power. I don't think the Lincoln Project will rush in to undermine any foreign policy of Biden's. They are Neocons and Biden has good grasp on foreign policy. They know this.

[JI7]

99. They do make great ads but LP gets more attention becsuse it's Republicans

going after him.

[roamer65]

10. We have the same goal.

Trying to same the republic.

[Under The Radar]

11. I trust that they hate Trump, but these guys were accomplices

of the Evangelical Right Wing, Tea Party, Anti Science and NRA coalitions that attracted the Nuts that run the party now. I am not sure that they have renounced any of that except the Trump part.

[marybourg]

12. What have I entrusted to them?

[Yonnie3]

15. Trust? For or with what?

I certainly don't trust them to have my best interests at heart.

I wouldn't give them money or information.

I trust that they will continue to hassle T'Rump. I am glad they are.

[global1]

17. They Are Trying Hard To Get Rid Of Trump - Make Him Resign Before November Then.....

they would support whomever the Repug presidential candidate is over Biden in November. Their beef now is with Trump. After he's gone all bets are off.

[Salviati]

19. I trust them in their desire to get trump out of office

Either via the election in November, or hounding him into resigning. Beyond that I don't trust them at all.

[Sympthsical]

20. I will make common cause with them until November.

After November, I'll watch them with a wary eye again.

The danger to the Republic is such that I'm fine with not giving them any side eye. Especially when they're devastating that asshat.

It doesn't mean they're my friends. They're temporary allies. Emphasis on temporary.

[RandiFan1290]

21. Not at all

Never trust a republicon

[Johnny2X2X]

22. I want to see then transition their ads to swing voters

So a good deal of their ads were to specifically tweak Trump and get him to respond,t hose were great. Now they're making ads for Democrats IMO, ones that will motivate us, like we need more motivation.

I want to see them be able to transition into more middle of the ground ads that subverts Trump and elevates Biden. We shall see.

[procon]

23. Trust was never the issue.

They are an ally of the moment, useful, but expendable. Don't get trapped by simple minded, black or white conflicts when the broader issues are so varied and complex.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

25. I don't have to trust them to appreciate what they are doing right now.

Once Trump is gone we can worry about what they really intend to do and deal with them then. In the meantime maybe we can learn from them how to go for the jugular in political ads instead of being all wonky and rational and ineffective.

[LeftInTX]

45. Totally agree!!

The Democrats need to adopt their strategy. We need to go for the jugular!!!

[Stallion]

26. Doesn't Register on My List of Concerns in Trump Pandemic Era

[dalton99a]

27. Their plan is to rebuild the Republican Party without Trump

Meanwhile, I have no objections to their ads

[melman]

54. That's not their plan

[HotTeaBag]

61. It kind of is.

What do you think their plan is?

[melman]

66. To infiltrate and conservatize the other side

[HotTeaBag]

68. Interesting.

I disagree with you but that's cool.

[BannonsLiver]

83. Is cool a new synonym for nuttier than squirrel shit?

[HotTeaBag]

93. I don't think so.

Why do you ask?

[BannonsLiver]

95. Because what that person is proposing is nuttier than squirrel shit.

[HotTeaBag]

96. Ah.

.

[WestCoastYellowDog]

30. I wrote a post saying I don't trust anti Trump Republicans, but I give Lincoln Project a pass

These people seem to be hitting Trump over policy, which is my main beef. The argument that Trump is a good President but for his Twitter/lack of filter is a red herring.

[Bleacher Creature]

31. Why does it matter how much we trust them? I just care about their actions.

And so far, they've inflicted some serious body blows.

I fully recognize that if they're successful in bringing down this vile President, that we'll go back to seeing them as political adversaries. But for that to happen, we have to get rid of Trump, and I'll gladly take their help.

[tenderfoot]

36. Let them spend their own money...

that's what I think of the Lincoln Project.

[tblue37]

38. They say that not just Trump but all his enablers must be defeated and the GOP as it is

now must be "burned to the ground" (their own words) to root out Trumpism.

I think they do mean to purge the party of Trumpists. Once they get that done, they will certainly go back to targeting Democrats. But for now, they want to get rid of Trump and everyone who has been enabling him.

[oasis]

39. As long as they don't cause Trump to bail early and we have Pence. nt

[SMC22307]

81. That's my fear. They may be so successful in hammering away at Trump...

McConnell may have a little chat with him, saying "game over," Nixon-style. Then we get Pence and maybe Nikki Haley as VP which would be BAD news for us. Scamvangelicals would be happy, not to mention any sane Rs or middle-of-the-roaders who would be pleased with a woman who just happens to be a POC.

[MuseRider]

40. I always say that I have

hated Rick Wilson with a white hot rage so many times I ended up just turning him off when I would see him on a show. The sight of him would make me angry. The reason was that he was so damned good but so very much on the wrong side of me. He is exactly the same Rick Wilson as he was then except his target is my target. For now I just love his mind and his wit and I love what they are all doing but it is truly going to suck when this is all turned back around on us again, truly suck. For now I wait for the podcast he does with Molly Jong-Fast with glee twice a week. I also hope those Dems who do this kind of stuff are paying attention. We are terrible at this and these guys have not one single problem rolling in the mud, there is political success and money in that mud and we need to learn how to grab some of it.

[HotTeaBag]

67. Such a great post.

Thank you.

I too listen to Rick and Molly's podcast along with the Bulwark's daily with Charlie Sykes and the Lincoln Project's new one.

I think 'Never Trumpers' are misunderstood by a lot of people on this board - that they are somehow in this for popularity or money, when what they're getting is pretty much the opposite. Most have been excommunicated from the party they've been a part of for most of their lives and many will never be welcomed back - they are trying to re-imagine what the GOP should be once Trump is gone, and though I don't agree with them on what that should be most of the time, it's really interesting to hear why they feel the way they do about Conservatism and what it means to them.

It would be great if the segment of Republicanism they represent were much more prevalent across the board, as it's with their type of ideological perspective that true bi-partisanship would be possible - they're not monsters to be destroyed, they just have a very different take on government than we do but are reasonable.

[MuseRider]

77. Thank you for all you said here.

I agree. I do not expect them to ever feel like I do about politics but I DO expect the other side to make sense and follow the constitution and not try to break the country down into an idiotic free for all and I think they feel that way too. It would be wonderful to go back to the days when there were some in each party who worked together to bring all the sides to the table to hash things out and make them work for all of us. I think that is exactly what they want and if it is then we want them to stick around. I am not sure Rick Wilson would play nice. However much I like the guy right now I think I will always have to respect his talent and despise him for his ways. He would me. Whatever, I don't want to be pals I want us to be able to work together and I think that is what they want more than what they have now. They are smart enough to see what their party has become and even though they have tried to say we are like that too they know better now that the true crazy is out and loud, it was just politics then but now they need to save their side to help save the country. I would be willing to work for that but it is not my game. My team, as usual, has been WAY too fair to them over the last 40 years thinking they will become what they should be and yet we watched them morph into this.

Anyway, friends for now. We will see where things stand later. I expect we will not be all cool with each other later but we will see.

[MurrayDelph]

41. The enemy of my enemy is almost-never my friend

They are temporary allies to achieve a goal, but I expect them to turn on us once (if) they accomplish their goal.

As long as we remember they helped make this monster and expect them to go back to their own ways when this is over, I'm willing to accept their help.

[LeftInTX]

42. I like their campaign tactics and wish Dems would embrace their strategy in the future

They really seem to have their act together, unlike the Democrats.
They "go there" and are bold.
I wish Democrats were like that!!


Yes, they are Republicans.

We can always hope for bipartisanship in the future, but highly doubt it will happen.

The Lincoln Project group seems to be mostly Neocons. In the future, can we find common ground on domestic issues? Can we find common ground on foreign policy?

[WhiskeyWulf]

43. You nailed it.

They're useful for now, but the fact is that they still support an extreme rightwing agenda. Actually, they still support the conditions that made Trump possible in the first place. He's the predictable outcome of the direction the Republican party has taken for the last forty to fifty years. They are not allies.

[brooklynite]

44. Why do you feel this was an issue?

Last edited Thu Jul 2, 2020, 05:18 PM - Edit history (1)

Nobody has suggested that they'll join the Democratic Party; I full expect them to try to regain control of what's left of the GOP after the election is over.

[melman]

55. "Democrat Party"

[brooklynite]

57. Typo

[melman]

60. Yeah

I'm sure it was.

[brooklynite]

63. Please elaborate

I've been working to get Democrats elected for 40 years. How about you?

Link to tweet

[melman]

65. What do you mean?

I said I'm sure it was. Not much more to add to that.

[George II]

75. I see it's your turn tonight. Good luck, and be careful.

[USALiberal]

82. LOL, I assumed you would post this. nt

[RandiFan1290]

106. trump was a NY 'democrat' too

[CanonRay]

46. I'm happy to have them on our side

even if it's temporary. I hope we learn something from them. After November, they won't be on our side.

[JHB]

47. I trust them completely. Trust them to go back to the status quo ante-Trumpum, that is.

I'm OK with their anti-Trump spots, but I'm dismayed at how they crowd out our own people for attention, even here. How many people here can even name "our people", while those guys' material is eagerly awaited like it was trailers for an upcoming blockbuster.

[live love laugh]

104. SO true. Their stuff is pushed here to the extreme.

And some of it isn’t “all that.”

[steve2470]

48. I trust them to help us get rid of Trump and Trump allies

We need all the help we can get.

Will they suddenly become Democrats after Biden is inaugurated in January 2021 ? No

I don't care. We MUST get rid of Trump and his "ideology" and allies.

[tinrobot]

50. I trust them until November or until Trump resigns, whichever is first.

Trump's their target. Once he's gone, who knows.

[kairos12]

53. If my house is burning I will

accept their hose and ladder.

[SiliconValley_Dem]

56. yep. this is a temporary arrangement for the good of the country

[First Speaker]

58. The Whigs and the Tories in 1688 didn't particularly "trust" each other...

...they had had serious disagreements before then, and would continue to have more--indeed, for another 200 years. But when push came to shove, they acted together to rid England of a Mad King. If these guys can help us do so in our country, I'll be grateful, and expect no more. Hopefully, they can then help push our opposition to a saner place.

[Azathoth]

59. If Rubio or Jeb were president, they'd be running these ads against Biden

They are definitely an enemy-of-my-enemy.

[Totally Tunsie]

62. They can buy me a drink at the bar,

but I'm not taking them home for the long run.

[Drahthaardogs]

64. The enemy of my enemy is my friend! Or not...

Progressive thinking rejects that thought process. However, Trump has made me realize that there is a whole different level of political debauchery.

I WOULD take a neocon over Trump - any day!

[Bettie]

69. If Trump quit and Pence was the nominee

they'd turn on a dime and ditch us.

[LanternWaste]

71. I trust they'll attempt to achieve their own agenda.

And currently, that agenda and mine are the same.

Roosevelt and Stalin didn't trust one another, but they certainly relied on each other when their agendas were the same.

[Solly Mack]

73. I'm not required to trust them. I don't have to trust them.

They see an opportunity to do something beneficial and are acting accordingly.

One of my pecan trees will dump some of its fruit into the yard of my neighbor. The wind blows and the nuts fly.

I don't much care for my neighbor. Glad his home is up for sale.

But if he wants to pick up those pecans and make a pie I'm not going to cry, "Mine!".

I'm also not going over for a slice either.

It's good the pecans aren't going to waste.

[Behind the Aegis]

88. LOL!

You crack me up! What an interesting analogy.

I have a great recipe for bourbon chocolate pecan pie. Interested?

[Solly Mack]

90. Yes, please. Thanks!

I lost one pecan tree to lightening and wind. Got 3 left. Lots of nuts. Besides me.

Neighbor is an old guy who uses binoculars to watch our yard and house. He even came on the property to question the workmen we hired.

Not to look out for our house either. He quizzed them about us. What kind of people we were. That kind of thing.

My house is full of windows. Lots of windows. I love the light. But for that neighbor. I hope his house sells soon.

[Hortensis]

74. Frankly, more than I'd trust the judgement of people who imagine

that being against Trump means conservatives must also adopt strong liberal views they never have agreed with or be untrustworthy.

It seems like half the heavy posters on this forum marinate themselves in MSNBC all week, and even Fox Lite CNN. What do they do half the day, glare suspiciously at conservative hosts and talking heads as "untrustworthy," even while they hand their own over to them for tinkering? And for heavens' sake why?

In both world wars the triple entente and axis nations didn't reject America's help because we were a bunch of assholes. They had to ally with us to avoid being taking over by the deadly enemies determined to destroy them, but that doesn't mean they thought we became them.

[jalan48]

78. The folks who had no problem with Bush/Cheney torture? Trump is making these awful people

look good, that's how far we have fallen in 20 years.

[BannonsLiver]

79. All I care about is winning and the present

We’ll deal with what comes next another day. It’s not a matter of trust to me anyway. It’s about usefulness. And right now they are pretty useful. Certainly more so than some of their detractors in this thread.

[Trumpocalypse]

80. As much as Churchill trusted Stalin during WWII

Temporary allies to defeat a common enemy.

[backscatter712]

84. It's a tactical alliance - the enemy of my enemy is my friend.

First, we get some people who are insanely devious using their talents on our behalf instead of our expense.

Second, there's the idea that we can get two parties again in the U.S. that yes, have disagreements, but agree to be Americans first, rather than Democrats or Republicans first. I don't know if that's going to pan out, but it's worthwhile to play along in the short term to see if that's possible.

But yeah, it's is absolutely important to understand that Rick Wilson, Steve Schmidt & co. are not going to be on our side after this election's over.

And we need to be taking notes. They may be members of that other party, but they're also geniuses in their profession. We need our own Lincoln Project.

[Chainfire]

85. You don't have to like them or trust them

but they are easy to tolerate as long as they are doing our bidding.

I don't "trust" any political organization, political party or politician. Their systems are all built on half-truths, mistruths, and outright lies, in the pursuit of power and money. I never bought into the "ends justifies the means" argument.

[manhattan123]

86. Who on earth is denying their background?

Some of you folks on DU make it sound like they're trying to sneakily cover up the fact that they are Republicans.

Also, some of them, like Steve Schmidt, have made clear that they are indeed done with the Republican party.

Carry your grudges forever and ever if that's what you want, if that makes you happy, but, Jesus, some of you need to get over yourself.

[not_the_one]

89. Right now I will gladly accept their help. I somewhat resent that they are doing such a good job.

WE should be doing that "good job".

They are looking forward to the "new" GOP, when THEY, and others of their ilk, will try to put lipstick BACK on the pig, then take it out to show the rest that THEY ARE BACK!!!

It'll be all the same old shit. They are what they are. It's just the turd WENT TOO FAR (Nazis, the KKK, and paying to have our own soldiers killed, tends to bring out some real negative feedback), and made them recognizable for what they are. They are getting some sunshine, acquiring a nice tan for the NEW GOP 2.0. They put away the dog whistles and bull horns, temporarily. But the whistles and horns aren't "retired", they are just "in the closet". I am under no delusions.

And when that time comes I can turn on them in a second. UNLESS they DO make the GOP 2.0 a kinder and gentler opposition party. (I won't hold my breath.)

But RIGHT NOW, I say keep doing what you doing. We are SO grateful.

[Dorian Gray]

91. I think they want trump gone...

and I'm okay with that. I respect that they aren't ideologically aligned with me, but they will do their best to get him out of there. He is a bigger threat than pure party politics.

However, I also suspect that they're data mining from supporters. THat'll be useful for future elections.... so consider whether you want to be on their lists.

[LeftInTX]

103. Good advice!!!!

[peggysue2]

92. Who ever said Never-Trump/Lincoln Project members would become Democrats???

They are completely up front in their political persuasions--hardcore conservatives, period. They're also up front with their hatred and disgust of/with Donald Trump. Right now, they are on our side to defeat the biggest threat to our national security, the Trump Machine that is definitely malfunctioning each and every day. A good portion of the breakdown is the clear unfitness of Donald Trump and his thin-skinned reaction to every criticism. The Lincoln Project is taking no prisoners; they're relentless in their mission to bring the man down. We could learn a thing or two from their raw, on-the-mark instincts.

But no one I know expects these same people to morph into nice little Dems when the smoke has cleared.

Strange times, strange bedfellows. What we're doing now is fighting for our national survival. Once we win that battle, we can and will no doubt resume the predictable catfighting.

[Demonaut]

97. we have to careful but I've never perceived Steve as two faced or underhanded

[JI7]

98. i trust them. Unlike fucking trolls like Jill Stein who pretend to be liberal

but just attack Democrats so she can help Republicans win, the people behind LP are honest with what they are. They hate trump and want him gone.

If they want to support Republicans in the future then that's for future elections .

And I prefer they support Romney (who we beat already and would beat again) types than trump types.

Bill Kristol is a Democrat now. Steve Schmidt called for republicans to support gay rights include same sex marriage in 2008.

[MerryBlooms]

100. I believe the minute trump is gone, they'll turn their ads onto Dems.

[JI7]

101. All they are asking is to vote for Biden and other Democrats. What is wrong with that ?

it's not like they are asking you to vote for them or even to give them money.

I never understand some Democrats need to nitpick over little things .

[GulfCoast66]

102. I hope they can bring back the Republican Party of old.

Sure, they were still awful and were only for the rich. And hated government programs thinking private business was usually the solution. Hell, Eisenhower raised taxes on the rich because it made economic sense at the time. And they were not full of religious nuts which Goldwater actually warmed them about in a very prophetic quote.

But they supported civil rights laws up till they invited in the Wallace democrats.

But I can’t see that happening. They are now nothing but racist and religious nutters except for a few of the other types remaining.

I can’t see them changing even if we win and Demographic changes make it even harder for them. Unless the religious not give up on politics and go back to their churches.

These never trumpers will have no effect on how Democrats govern.

[Skittles]

105. I never trust repukes

NEVER

I can still enjoy watching them taunt Trump though.

[betsuni]

107. What's with Democrats using people to elect Democrats seen as "trusting" them?

That's politics. There's no quid pro quo and no trusting anybody.

[George II]

108. The US and USSR had a very strained relationship after WWI up until 1941. However....

....we were strong allies in WWII to defeat Nazi Germany.

Almost from the day the war ended we were back being mortal enemies again.

I'll take the Lincoln Project's support until November 3, then see where they go from there.

[haele]

109. "Never get in the way of enemies who are at war...."

They are still pro money "I got mine" types who have problems with situations that are complex or outside their personal experiences or comfort zones. I don't need to trust them, or like them, or sing Kumbaya with them afterwards.
For now, they're providing ammo, even if it is for their benefit. I don't intend to hang out with them as besties once this phase of their Lincoln Project is over.
Because one can never forget, everything they do is based on a calculation on what is best for them and the country they want to build, with as little compromise as possible.

Haele

[zipplewrath]

110. Not getting my money

I have no idea how it will ultimately be used. I'll let Republicans spend their own money.

[ecstatic]

111. I could be wrong, but in listening to Wallace and Schmidt, they have beef

with the entire republican party, not just trump. They clearly loathe trump and also feel deeply disgusted with the republican party's blind loyalty to him. Even in the face of a deadly pandemic in which 100s of thousands of Americans will die.

I can't speak for the other anti-trumpers because I haven't been regularly exposed to their commentary.