We are never going to be over this virus are we?????

[a kennedy]

and if we don’t get it, we’ll NEVER be back to what we could do before......full restaurants, full movie theaters, full shopping centers.

[soothsayer]

1. 100 days is all it took ny/nj/ct

Not 100% there yet but they sure walloped it and are safely reopening (knock on wood)

[Horse with no Name]

22. But the difference is that they didn't allow it to become endemic

Which is most likely where it is right now

[soothsayer]

23. Nobody had deaths like nyc had deaths

They were the hottest hotspot in the world

[Horse with no Name]

28. Agreed

But Houston is forecast to overtake that “honor”

[soothsayer]

29. Yeah. Not too late! Yet.

[CentralMass]

2. It looks like it's going to be a long haul. Hopefully they will eventually develop a vaccine.

[albacore]

18. 50% of Murikans say they won't take it.

https://www.nbcnews.com/health/health-news/half-americans-would-get-covid-19-vaccine-ap-norc-poll-n1215606

Something to do with Bill Gates going to put tracking devices in the vaccine. 44% of Republicans think Bill Gates to use COVID-19 vaccine to implant tracking chip

https://cbsaustin.com/news/local/poll-44-of-republicans-think-bill-gates-to-use-covid-19-vaccine-to-implant-tracking-chip

[mahina]

27. Do they have phones?

:Eyeroll:

Hello, Wiretap?

[SammyWinstonJack]

33. LOL!

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

3. I wouldn't say never, but it will be a long time.

And even then, things might done differently - smaller restaurants and other venues. I think movie theatres were dying anyhow because of the availability of streaming movies but I'm wondering when (if) concerts and plays will happen again. It depends a lot on whether and when an effective vaccine is developed.

[PSPS]

4. Perhaps, but it will be a while

In a way, it's good that you're angry (based on the emoji.) That's the second of the five stages. The fact is that, eventually, we will be back to "normal." But it will take a worldwide coordinated effort. Today's political climate makes it impossible at this time. Only after this is treated worldwide as a health issue and not a political issue will any progress be made.

[CaliforniaPeggy]

6. Thank you for saying this--it's really true. And it needs to be said to everyone. n/t

[brush]

15. We are the exception of modern industrial nations because trump totally botched our response.

Fingers crossed: Once Biden gets in he will immediately set up a national testing, tracing, isolation and treatment mechanism that should've been done in March. He'll use the Defense Production Act to manufacture PPE, masks and testing supplies. This also should've been done in march.

Also he'll re-start the Anti-Pandemic Office in the WH, as well as deploying our epidemiologists and other scientists to China, Africa and other countries/continents to closely monitor and help with blocking any emerging viruses. The Obama admin also had that in place before.

trump is the reason we are in the pathetic situation we are in. Other industrial nations have flattened their virus curve, came down the other side and their profiles are back to level. Ours is going up again because trump and stupid repug governors re-opened too soon to help the orange turd get re-elected. Now there are 130,000 dead and counting.

[former9thward]

19. You did not provide any links for your statements.

Other modern industrial nations have a far higher death rate from CV-19 than the U.S. PPE, masks are no longer in short supply. We lead the world by far in testing. New outbreaks have broken out in Europe such as Germany, UK, Portugal and Spain. Our daily deaths are down by 85% from the mid April peak.

https://www.realclearpolitics.com/coronavirus/

[brush]

20. Are you actually defending trump's response? We may have production of PPE in place..

Last edited Wed Jul 8, 2020, 12:04 AM - Edit history (1)

now, and more testing now but we sure didn't in March when it was needed.

And if you've been paying any attention you've seen the graphic of our virus profiles, rising sharply again, next to that of the European Union, New Zealand and other nations that have flattened theirs.

I don't believe you, and on DU too.

[former9thward]

21. Again, no links.

I provided a link showing the actual rates.

[brush]

25. I know you've seen this but here you go, the actual graphic, not just a link.

Now defend trump's botched response.



And the US cases are more than 50k daily now.

[former9thward]

43. I am talking about deaths not cases.

Deaths are what are important -- not only to those dying, but it is a reflection on intense hospital care and those needs. Th EU, especially in the west, have horrendous death rates. The EU is not doing the testing the U.S. is presently doing (600,000 a day) so it is not surprising they are not finding the number of cases.

[marie999]

48. No, the deaths of over 133,000 people is bad, but a lot more people will have major health problems

for the rest of their lives. We already have over 3,000,000 cases.

[brush]

49. What are you arguing, that the trump admin has done a great job. Are you serious?

You sound like McEnany in her lie-a-minute press conferences.

And as far as deaths, we're projected to have at least 200,000 by Nov., and with trump now pushing all schools to re-open fully in Sept., even in states like Texas, Florida and Arizona with very high infection rates, we'll get there. Deaths, as most know by now, are a lagging indicator. They show up later.

The US has 1/4 of the worlds deaths and 1/4 of the worlds cases and you're defending trump's response? Why?

Germany - 390 new cases; Denmark - 10 new cases;

Norway - 35 new cases; Sweden - 57 new cases.

USA - 51000-60000 new cases.
1200 new deaths yesterday.

[former9thward]

56. When you have to resort to personal attacks it means you have lost the argument.

Not to mention they are a violation of DU's TOS. I look at the CV-19 objectively, not as a means of scoring political points.

[PCIntern]

58. OK, no personal attack here from me...

There is no question that a fair percentage of the non-fatal cases will result in increased morbidity and mortality of those affected, and the lasting effects of this disease will be in perpetuity. Eventually, the vast majority of people will be exposed and will suffer some form of debilitation. It will be premature death, as there was premature death due to the World Trade Center cloud. Doubtless, the right wingers will decline to admit that the deaths will be Attributable to COVID-19.

[former9thward]

59. You may be right.

But with a virus only 6 months old no one can say for sure. Scientific testing on the virus is still in its infancy and is literally all over the map. I am hoping the aftereffects will be minimal for most people.

[brush]

64. It's still not clear what you're arguing. Is it just for the sake of arguing?

I assume you're on DU as a Democrat so I don't get what seems like arguments and questionable stats that seem to bolster trump's poor response to the virus crisis compared to many other nations' responses.

[Ms. Toad]

31. We are not even close to leading the world in testing.

EVEN using the link you provided, which measures the number of tests - only - China has done 3 times the number of tests we have.

But that number isn't useful, since what matters is how many tests per capita. We are 25th by that measure. As to countries with a population of at least a million, we are 15th in per capita testing - again, not the lead by far.

As to death rate - it is true that some modern industrial nation have higher death rates - The UK, Spain, Italy, Sweden and France (of those, I wouldn't describe any as "far higher." Our deaths per 1 million population are 405; the highest of those countries is UK at 654/million. But comparing deaths to million to cases per million, our deaths per case exceed those of the UK.

While daily deaths are down significantly from the peak (1) deaths lag new cases - and the explosion of new cases just started about 3 weeks ago. Give them time to catch up - the rolling average for this week (so far) is up about 200 from last week. and (2) the decrease from the peak is only 85% if you cherry pick the peak and the current number of new deaths. Using a rolling 7-day average, deaths are down 57% from the peak.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/#countries (and spreadsheet calculations based on data from this site).

As to PPE - I don't know if supplies are adequate. Unlike the other assertions you made, I don't actively track supplies of PPE.

[Delphinus]

51. PPE

The story from my local morning paper:
[link:https://www.journalgazette.net/news/20200708/personal-protective-gear-starting-to-run-low-again] (AP story)

[Dem2]

52. Our tests/1M population is 25th overall. Our death rate is 7th in the world.

Why are you pointing to RCP? The "R" is Republican to those who know.

We had nearly 1000 deaths yesterday, so the delay in deaths from the spike may be kicking in.

And if you say "what about larger countries?", then sort the below by population and you'll see that the US is BY FAR the worst in every category in the top 20 countries by population (total cases, case rate, deaths, death rate etc.) And we're 2nd in test rate, so your point below about testing isn't even accurate.

https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

[former9thward]

57. Are you saying the RCP is false?

Then link to where it is false. You are changing the goal posts. I understand why. I am talking about death rate per million. For some reason some people don't want to admit Europe has bad rates worse than the U.S.

[Dem2]

61. Republican Controlled Polling site

I won't even discuss RCP with you; I provided a database for you to peruse and below you can see actual facts (unless you think it's significant that a few relatively small population countries out of over 200 have a historical death rate higher than the US - if so that's laughable!)


Not counting the 2 city-states, we're number 7 out of over 200. That's good?



Soon we'll have more deaths than every country above us in that list combined!

[roamer65]

5. My gut feeling is about 6 years.

[mucifer]

7. Hoping the vaccine comes and we can slowly normalize with it. But, a lot of damage

will continue to occur even if trump is ousted in January.

[brush]

16. Yes, and once we get the vacine, then we have to deal with the stupid anti-vaxxers.

We just know they'll come out of the woodwork.

[Horse with no Name]

24. Unfortunately billions of dollars were given to a company

Who has never brought a vaccine to market.
I am quite sure there is a link to trump somehow.
But even as a vaccine believing healthcare worker, you couldn’t pay me enough to take it.

[JoeOtterbein]

8. We need to shut down completely.

And do it right next time.

[dlk]

9. I have an acquaintance with a relative who is an MD researcher at the CDC

He has said they can’t get a handle on the virus; it keeps mutating, and he’s not sure a vaccine will ever be developed. He’s also said the best things we can do right now are wear masks, wash our hands & do social distancing.

[yellowdogintexas]

36. because of the mutation it is possible that we will end up with

an annual vaccination, as we are already doing with influenza, which would allow development of vaccine for the next mutation. Also the immunity does not last very long which is a whole other issue.

COVID 19 is a coronavirus. So are many of the viral infections we call the "common cold", we never become completely resistant to "colds" and kids are not resistant at all. However as we get older, our colds become less severe because we have some immunity to at least the prior generation of that particular virus.

Listen to "This Podcast Will Kill You". Episode 43 gives a nice overview of coronavirus in general. Later episodes are much more detailed. This is good scientific education but not boring or dry at all. By the way their debut episode was ....Spanish Flu

[dlk]

38. Will check it out - thanks!

[uponit7771]

10. Yes, a federated quick turnaround Test/Trace/Isolate & sentinel process keeps CV19 away until

... a widely and highly effective vaccine is made

[Wounded Bear]

11. Not til Trump and his enablers are gone...

[sop]

12. The repercussions from COVID-19 could have been significantly mitigated had Trump's response

not been so shockingly negligent. Trump's words and actions have been criminal.

[herding cats]

13. Within less than 2 years we will have a true handle on this.

Within a year we're going to be starting to manage this much better.

Be patient, be patriotic and do the right thing and social distance, wear a mask and care about each other between now and then.

We're bruised but not broken. We will heal as a society. In time.

[SoonerPride]

14. The 1918 pandemic lasted 2 years

Expect this to last at least that long.

[Skittles]

17. which virus are you talking about, Trump or covid?

[GulfCoast66]

26. Yes. We will be.

This is not a new thing. Yeah, new to us. But a pandemic was overdue. It’s been 100 years. I’m sure in the midst of it in 1918 some people thought we would never be over it.

In fact, long term it will end up being not all bad. COVID or SARS type viruses are a huge threat to humans that will continue. Had we put the resources into SARS that we are now back in the last out break we would be in a better place. But now we are.

I told the wife tonight we are experiencing what our great grand parents did their entire lives. They never knew when they would catch something that would kill them. And they did not even understand germ theory! But they managed. We will too.

Unfortunately we have idiots among us and leading the country. Had masks been mandatory from the git-go we would be reopening like Europe is.

When a large part of your country rejects science for god you are screwed.

[dawg day]

30. It might mutate into something less lethal...

End up.like the flu in a couple years. This news about clotting though is very bad.

[scarytomcat]

50. it already is

but it will never be "just a cold"
this thing can have long term problems

[Awsi Dooger]

32. I'm wondering if I'll ever play a normal round of golf again...or eat a buffet

Coronavirus golf is mostly the same until reaching the green. Can't touch or remove the flagstick. PVC pipe blocking the hole. No way to tell if many putts would have gone in or not

I missed my annual birthday buffet at Golden Corral. Relatives treat me to that because they know I ate thousands of buffets while living in Las Vegas, and still miss them. One plateful seems so pathetic.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. Not for a long time, but it will eventually be over.

Either there will be a vaccine, or there will be effective treatments, or -- and this is the worst case scenario -- at least 70% of the population will have gotten it and we'll have a form of herd immunity.

Here's the analogy I've been offering:

Let's say it's 1939, and we're planning a trip to Europe for next year. We've been planning and saving for several years, and it's going to be wonderful! We'll be going to London, Paris, Rome, Madrid, maybe a few other cities.

Then September rolls around and WWII breaks out. It's obvious we aren't going to Europe next year. Pretty soon it becomes clear we won't be going the year after either. The war continues. Eventually it ends in 1945.

It's possible we'll finally take that trip in 1946, perhaps a year or several after. In any case, when we finally get there, it's going to be a completely changed Europe than the one in 1939.

And so it is with this. A lot is going to change. Some things will never be the same. Others will be . . . different.

My advice is to hunker down and make it through the war, I mean the corona virus, as best you can.

[2naSalit]

39. Good analogy!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

40. Thank you.

I've been using this analogy for a month or two, and I still feel as if it works quite well.

[2naSalit]

42. It does.

[lastlib]

35. We don't know the long-term consequences of infection by this beast....

...but so far, it looks UGLY beyond comprehension. Short answer to your question: No. Vaccines may help prevent it from causing damage to those who don't get infected, but that's a LONG way in the future, and by then, probly millions more will be infected. Those folks will likely have health consequences for the rest of their lives, and their lives may be shortened accordingly.

But eventually, if we are intelligent (that's a BIG "if"...) we will defeat it and life will return pretty much to normal. We beat smallpox. We conquered polio, measles, mumps, and chicken pox are no longer serious threats to survival. Spanish flu is a thing of the past.

It is within our pwer to defeat it, but our (tRump's/GOPee's) dithering and delay and stupidity will exact a huge price in the health of those who got infected, likely for decades. This thing is a monster, and it ain't going away easily.

[Kaleva]

37. I'm prepared to live like this for several years.

Anyone observing me over a period of time probably can't detect much of a difference in my life prior to the pandemic and when the state was shut down.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

41. LOL!

Anyone observing me over a period of time probably can't detect much of a difference in my life prior to the pandemic and when the state was shut down.

Sounds about right for me, also.

[inwiththenew]

44. Not before we suffer a full on economic collapse I think

I think as bad as this year has been next year is going to be worse. There is no containing the virus in the US anymore with the patchwork of measures across the states. It's really a symptom of how irrevocably broken this country is. Wearing a mask or not is a partisan issue.

There are whole sectors of the economy that have been limping by with limited openings that are going to have to likely be completely shut down for months next year to get any sort of grip on the outbreak. Many will take years to recover, if ever. Next year is going to probably be one of the worst in recent American history regardless of who wins because the mess we've made now. Prepare for it now if you can.

[a kennedy]

62. and when Joe gets in he has to clean up this damn mess.......and it's going to

be a hell of a job. I worry about our country.

[anamnua]

45. Donald J Trump will end. So will the virus. NT.

[scarytomcat]

46. test and track

until we begin we cannot get to the end

[scarytomcat]

47. time to go back home and start over

[mnhtnbb]

53. I believe we are experiencing a paradigm shift in our daily living.

and I am planning a change in my living environment because of it and my age, pushing 70. It's quite unlikely there will be a vaccine before at least a couple of years, and even then I'm not sure I trust Big Pharma with the reliability or effectiveness of it. For me, I'm more concerned that therapeutic treatment be developed to prevent the damage it does to vital organs, and that could take a long time.

I have been happily living in a downtown high rise apartment building for two years where I could conveniently walk to performances of the ballet, the symphony, and eat in excellent restaurants. There were routinely street fairs from spring-fall. I used to tell people that since I couldn't afford the upper west side of New York, that my little downtown Raleigh area would have to do. As an older woman living alone, I felt quite safe in my 24 hour staffed security building. I could travel--and I was taking several trips/year--and not worry about leaving an empty apartment/house.

No more. I'm not going to be sitting in a theater with people for a couple of hours. I'm not going to be traveling. I'm not going to eat inside in restaurants. So I am buying a small house--with a courtyard--where I can have plants, flowers, a fountain, and hang a hummingbird feeder for the hummers that migrate April-October. I will be able to go outside and enjoy that space without coming into contact with other people. Instead of walking to events, this new community has access to the American Tobacco Trail, where I can walk for exercise. I will have to get in my car (which sometimes I don't drive for a couple of weeks) to go (masked) to the library, the grocery store, the drug store, etc., which will all be within a few miles of the community where my house is being built. Unfortunately, it won't be ready until December at the earliest, but at least I have something to look forward to through the rest of the summer and fall while I stay--mostly--cooped up in my apartment.

[jmg257]

54. Nope - cause there are enough dumb asses in this country who STILL think its not a thing.

11% who won't even contemplate wearing a mask, at least.
Huge amount of leaders reluctant to take decisive actions.

Biden/elections will help - but mostly those who already know and buy in to helping, the rest are lost and doom us all.

[SmartVoter22]

55. You can always catch something...

a cold, the seasonal flu, an infection from a cut.

This is just another thing, on that list of contagious thing we should be aware of and watch out for.

It's OK, because you may dine differently in the future...they still want to cook for you.

It's OK, the theaters will just have to re-design seating from traditional rows of seats.

It's OK, the stores are open and want you to shop.

If you think you will be able to what you want anywhere? I think those days are done, and that is also OK.
You're a human, you can easily adapt.

[budkin]

60. It's going to be several years before we're back to pre-COVID

That's just the reality.