Can a presidential pardon or commutation be rendered invalid?

[Archae]

Because I know damn well this is giving the green light to Roger Stone, he has to be imprisoned, or he'll continue his slimy tactics.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. Nope.

It's in the Constitution, president can pardon or commute the sentence of whomever he wants.

[Archae]

2. Just great.

Here's hoping the GOP gets some brains and ignores this asshole from now on.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

4. I hope somebody is looking at state crimes he might have committed,

since those can't be pardoned.

[notinkansas]

3. And the framers

really thought this power would be a good idea?

Sounds kingly much?

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

5. I think they counted on it not being abused, and most of the time

it hasn't. Bill Clinton's pardon of Marc Rich was controversial but nothing like what Trump's done (and not just Roger Stone - he's pardoned a whole bunch of asshats, like Sheriff Arpaio). Closest thing might be Bush II commuting Scooter Libby's sentence.

[Archae]

6. Don't forget...

Bush I's "lame duck surprise" that Bill Barr said he should do, he pardoned ALL the Iran-Contra crooks.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

7. That's true. Barr has been stinking up the place for a long time.

I'll be glad to see the last of him.

[notinkansas]

8. I have to think they thought the power wouldn't be abused,

but now it seems that every exercise of that power gets worse than anything prior in terms of abuse. Eerrggghhhhh.

[elleng]

9. Maybe, by next/future president.

According to Glenn Kirschner:

'Biden and the new AG, if he wins, in Jan can do a maiden law and undo it. They can say they looked at the case, it was corrupt and an abuse of power and rescind the commutation. Then it can go to the court and a judge can decide if this was a just commutation, likely he will say it was corrupt.
Also, the next DOJ, once cleaned out and restructured after Barr, can take Stone to court and Stone can explain how this wasn't corrupt. Good luck with that Roger, since he already said in writing that it was a quid quo pro with POTUS, basically a bribe to keep quiet.'

https://www.democraticunderground.com/1017592771

[dawg day]

10. I don't think so--

Decades ago, the Tennessee governor on his way out pardoned and commuted several murderers and rapists (I guess to get back at the populace for voting him out). The incoming gov (Lamar Alexander!) took the oath early to stanch the previous governor's destruction.


https://www.tennessean.com/story/news/politics/2019/01/17/lamar-alexander-ray-blanton-tennessee-governor-fbi-clemency/2575822002/

Very recently, the defeated and execrable Gov. Bevin (KY) on his way out pardoned a whole lot of violent criminals, and while the state AG asked for an FBI investigation, it looked like there wasn't much that could be done.

Trump will do the same thing after the election. He'd pardon Charles Manson if he were still alive-- Manson famous and evil and mean! A trifecta.

[Warpy]

11. Probably not

Pardon/commutation power was left unfettered because the founders knew there would be political shenanigans down the line and they didn't want the president constrained from righting some egregious wrongs.

They didn't foresee a political party becoming a criminal racket and tossing out the rule of law in favor of extreme loyalty to their mob boss. They had no experience of Cosa Nostra, only pirates.

[marybourg]

12. They had the experience of King George III,

and a history replete with tyrants. They were not babes in the woods. But, as you say, they knew that sometimes the power to pardon or commute was the only way an extreme injustice could be righted and were willing to take the risk of occasional abuse.

[customerserviceguy]

18. Plus

the Founders really didn't consider the possible effects of political parties emerging, and the ramifications that would have on governance.

[struggle4progress]

13. I'm not convinced that there is a simple answer to that. A pardon really should be specific enough

that one knows what violations the person admits by accepting the pardon. I should also think that self-pardons are beyond-the-pale, since the intent of the pardon-power is not to grant the executive unlimited criminal warrant but rather to allow the executive to show mercy that might not be politically-feasible at lower level

[sarisataka]

14. No.

[WonderGrunion]

15. No, but I am sure Stone is guilty of other crimes

He can be prosecuted for them.

[BigmanPigman]

16. No, but attorney Glenn Kirschner said that

Biden (if elected) can do a maiden law and overturn the commutation saying it is corruption. The next AG can take it back to court and argue that this was clearly corruption since it was done as a favor and Stone even said so (quid pro quo). Skip ahead to tne 9 minute mark....

[FBaggins]

17. There's no "but" about it

Kirschner’s notion here is just nuts.

The problem isn’t that it’s “never been done before”... it’s that the power to undo clemency doesn’t exist. A new president/AG can declare it corrupt, but they can’t undo it absent a change to the constitution. Doing it would be to go rogue even beyond Trump’s .

The only thing that can be done at this point is to look for new charges unrelated to those on which he was already convicted.


“Do a maiden law”...pshaw