General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsThat LIE about Joe Biden. What was said to me and what I have decided to do.
I reported here last evening about my encounter with a supermarket worker who said that to me. Here is what I have decided to do:
I called our best friend who is a retired union activist and shop steward. I consulted with him by phone yesterday evening and here's what he said:
"You can report him to the manager. I can tell you the manager will call him in and talk to him about what he said. He won't be fired over it (unless he has done this before and has a history of doing it despite complaints) but she or he will give him a warning and it will go on his record in case he wants to try to do this again."
I've decided that I will not report him this time. I will, however, warn him not to do it again. That he is making a very serious, and completely without evidence, charge against Joe Biden and making it to an elderly female customer who has shopped there for at least 20 years. "I am doing this as a favor to you, because I don't want to see you get into trouble and, as a Democrat I know that you have a family to take care of. But this is serious and you will have serious consequences because the next woman you say this to might not be as kind. And if you say this again to me, I will report you on the spot."
I am going to run this by our friend and see what he says and if I do it I will let everyone know the result.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)This needs to go to the manager. If he hasn't done it before, the warning will go in his file. If he has, the file will get thicker.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I wanted our union friend's advice. He pretty much said what you did about the warnings.
I am conflicted, to be sure. And I am almost certain he has been told to say this because it is the Trump campaign strategy: hit the other guy with a rape charge to blunt his own reported rapes.
This is an all offense, no defense strategy. The rape lie will linger to infuse some doubt into the opponents mind.
That won't work here. I will directly confront that lie and he won't say it again.
I will think about the advice you just offered. I value your opinion and let you know what happened.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)and do let us know how it goes.
Polly Hennessey
(6,799 posts)Four? Only four. I thought it was eight. Usually, flummoxes them. They want to make you angry. They want you to react. Takes some of their stuffing out if you agree.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)New manager so since I do not know the man's name I could only ID him by his appearance: he is exceptionally tall and a white man, maybe early 50s but looks younger. If there are any other customer complaints that will ID him.
I am awaiting a report. I told the manager that I was an elderly (80 yrs old) white woman who had been a regular, and very satisfied, customer at this store for about 20 years. I emphasized how efficient and friendly the staff were to me always, how I depended on the store and how this man had helped me in the past find things. And I said I was deeply offended and shocked.
The manager agreed that this guy's behavior was reprehensible and he would report back to me after he investigates it.
Squinch
(50,955 posts)something about it.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)something (difficult since I couldn't ID him by name). I am hoping that if anyone else had suffered his bad behavior that they would have reported it too. Otherwise, it's just me...
Squinch
(50,955 posts)at least avoid him.
If you can't avoid him and he says anything to you, don't leave the store without telling the manager.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Thanks for your encouragement.
I'll keep you all updated...
Squinch
(50,955 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I'll go when I damn well please. If he's there, I'll just ignore him.
Lulu KC
(2,567 posts)I'd call the manager now.
Who knows how many times he's said this.
This is serious.
mitch96
(13,911 posts)If and when if you go to the mgr I don't believe you will be implicated or known. Like it has been said, how many times has he told this lie? YMMV
m
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)New manager so he's gotta find out the guy's name. Fortunately, my description pretty much gave it away (he's enormously tall). I left the manager my name and phone number.
patricia92243
(12,597 posts)StopTheNeoCons
(892 posts)on those that seek to destroy us and our country with their lies and stupidity
SammyWinstonJack
(44,130 posts)WestLosAngelesGal
(268 posts)I don't want people who believe this crap anywhere near my food.
EqualityNow
(32 posts)I'd be reporting it to the store manager.
I'd be reporting it on the stores contact us/feedback site.
I'd be reporting it on every single reviews site I could find that lists the store.
Very much respect your own civility though.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I'm in that store a lot and have always had a nice relationship with everyone. They are unfailingly kind to me. That's why this was such a shock.
True Blue American
(17,986 posts)You will gain animosity, nothing else.
EqualityNow
(32 posts)However, especially if the store manager was going to take action on it, I'd probably pass by the clerk on my way out with a smug smile on my face. Kind of crappy I admit, but I'm not nearly as willing to be nice or take the high road as I was prior to 2016.
True Blue American
(17,986 posts)How to cut someone down, oh so nicely. But would go out of my way to help a nice one.
BigmanPigman
(51,608 posts)or anyone else involved in his employment (human resources, etc.). Don't say anything to his face, he sounds nutty and who knows when a nut will crack.
Awsi Dooger
(14,565 posts)A long specific powerful letter sent to several uppers. That always works for me
JT45242
(2,278 posts)All that it takes for evil to win is for good people to stand by and do nothing.
Talking to this slanderer will do nothing. He has learned that you can say whatever slanderous things you want with no repercussions or personal responsibility from people like Alex Jones, Gingrich, and Trump.
You should report to the manager. Also, I would consider whether or not you want to continue shopping there based on the management reaction. It may be that this fish rots from the head... The worker may be just echoing the tune of management. I hope not. But you will not know unless you complain.
Merlot
(9,696 posts)Because threads are found by searches on the internet and what you're really doing (unintentionally I'm sure) is spreading disinformation.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)Some dude in some grocery store said something. And this is the second thread on this subject, with that kind of nonsense in the title?
I don't see any reason in repeating this nonsense over and over again.
The OP can report him to the manager or not.
If OP feels badly about possible consequences for him, then don't report him.
I don't see any point in debating him about it, but if he keeps saying shit like that, somebody will probably report him to the manager even if OP won't.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)True Blue American
(17,986 posts)I have found my posts at the top of a Google search!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Thekaspervote
(32,774 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)Your basic plan as you have outlined is good, but I would lean toward reporting him.
Engaging him as you suggest is really the only way you have to tell him that he is a sucker for believing serious but false allegations with no evidence. It's up to you if you want to transmit that message to him. He won't believe you or give it much attention, but over time a series of those kinds of messages from various sources might penetrate.
Simply "shopping elsewhere" sends a very low, uninformative, unnoticeable signal to the store. Individual boycotts have no effect especially if not explained, but large scale boycotts do. The employee would never know or even notice one customer not coming. The manager wouldn't notice a 1 in a 1000 drop in sales for ongoing months because it would be buried in the noise of new people moving into the neighbourhood or moving away, etc. But if you tell the manager why, then you are effectively reporting the guy. So I don't advocate simply shopping elsewhere, though it is a very reasonable choice.
LisaL
(44,973 posts)They don't work on commission. Less customers, less work. I really doubt the guy would be upset over it even if he notices that this particular customer is not coming around anymore.
True Blue American
(17,986 posts)He knew management was aware of his big lie!
I complained to a major department store customer service about an online order they sent me. 3 wrong items out of 5 for birthday gifts. They offered me a full refund. I declined because I knew the recipients were exchanging the items. I just wanted to make them aware of mistakes in online orders.
If I had been dishonest I would have accepted the refund.
Our really nice neighborhood board has turned into a sewer of arguing on masks, or no masks.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Bernardo de La Paz
(49,005 posts)True Blue American
(17,986 posts)LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I brought up "grab them by the p****" but he was expecting it.
Clearly, this was a tactic used by the Trump campaign when they advise their "robots" to go out and argue with a lib. The desired effect is to throw me off balance and blunt the charge against Trump.
LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Im glad you are going to the manager, I think it is the right thing to do.
LymphocyteLover
(5,644 posts)Pobeka
(4,999 posts)If you only talk to the worker, all he might do is stop saying that stuff when he sees you, but continue spreading lies to other customers when you are not around.
If he gets a reprimand from the manger, the worker will know the store itself is keeping an eye on him and he'll more likely keep the lies to himself around other customers as well.
You don't owe this worker any favors, he already crossed a huge line by spreading lies.
That's what i would do.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)This thread pretty much tells me what to do. And you are all right. We liberals are too nice. He needs a gut punch and maybe his manager will deliver it.
certainot
(9,090 posts)if it's something that can be repeated on the radio then it's probably all over the place
safeinOhio
(32,688 posts)in stores like this. I won't have to say a word. Need to come up with more ideas.
This one says
Wearing a mask is not a political statement
It is a
IQ test.
Joinfortmill
(14,428 posts)WhiskeyGrinder
(22,357 posts)CTyankee
(63,912 posts)My inner voice says to report him. That will happen.
GeorgiaPeanut
(360 posts)He doesn't need a warning. It is time these people learned that actions have consequences.
Paladin
(28,264 posts)The jerk at the store claimed that Biden had raped four women.
All due respect, CTyankee: You ought to report the incident to management. The right wing flourishes on account of liberal good manners. Spewing of political opinions from a supermarket employee is something you shouldn't have to put up with.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)KY_EnviroGuy
(14,492 posts)Ask the manager how he would like it if someone spread that lie about him!
You might remind the manage that may be punishable by law.
Perhaps a DU Legal Eagle can enlighten us.......
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)My son is a prosecutor. I will ask him.
Ligyron
(7,633 posts)You can't shadow him all day to counter his propaganda and then turn him in even if you really did have nothing better to do.
Report him to the management and get it on his record.
MissB
(15,810 posts)I worked for a national chain grocery store that was unionized.
We werent allowed to talk about politics or religion. We werent supposed to engage the customer in any conversation except to make them feel comfortable- ie greet them and ask them how their day was or if they needed help.
I got busted once for carrying on a completely harmless conversation in front of a customer - because the conversation was with a fellow employee and left the customer out. No big deal, I was a kid and learned the proper way to have a conversation around customers.
Quaint times. That chain actually cared about making customers comfortable.
I agree with everyone else that you should bring this up with the manager. This employee engaged in a discussion of politics with you that made you uncomfortable (mad, surprised, whatever). That doesnt make for a good shopping experience and frankly you dont need to be engaged that way when shopping. Pleasantries are fine. Weird political statements are not.
beachbumbob
(9,263 posts)and getting the vote out.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I am considering my donations to candidates very carefully. I have not yet decided who to support financially. In fact, my last donation went to Doctors Without Borders to support their care of women and children.
My neighborhood is chock full of Dems and some repubs who vote R locally and pretty much stay out of national politics (AFAIK) because they know it's a losing battle.
malaise
(269,050 posts)LiberalBrooke
(527 posts)I have managed stores and believe me, the manager needs to know to talk to and watch that employee.
dansolo
(5,376 posts)If it bothers you enough that you feel he needs to stop, then you trying to warn him will most likely have the opposite effect, because he knows that his claims have an effect. If you truly want him to stop, make him realize that there can be real consequences to his actions.
radius777
(3,635 posts)to election day and the RW/anti-Dem LW gets more and more desperate.
It already is ugly on social media.
Hillary's team was asleep at the wheel when Rudy/Comey screwed us with 11 days to go; hope Biden's team is ready this time for such a play as Trump is now President and has Barr to do his dirty work. They can come up with a nastier/faker (but make it seem real) buzzer beater than last time.
ps. I agree w/the others you must tell the manager as this punk thinks he can pop off and spread RW conspiracies he probably does it about all Dems and it likely isn't his first time.
Takket
(21,576 posts)Freddie
(9,267 posts)Its wrong no matter which side theyre on.
OT: Im in a genealogy group on FB for my relatively uncommon (maiden) name. Its fun especially because theres people from the UK, Canada and Australia in the group too. Recently someone has been posting Trump stuff there; every time he does the comments are all no politics here please (yay!) Happened again and this time we got a new post: the unwanted political posts are from my 89 year old father, I keep telling him dont post that crap there but he doesnt get it. Hasnt been one in a couple weeks so I guess he finally got it.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)against Trump before they even get started. Not as an employee of the store, but on his own, as a repuke (i guess, who else would it be?).
So this is the strategy we can expect going forward.
Your example is a good one. A genealogy group, fer chrissake! Your dad has been inculcated with lies and there might be a racist tone there (superior white race shit).
2naSalit
(86,646 posts)That's not his business, he should not have said it to anyone, regardless. Don't give him any ammunition for retaliation should he end up escalating the situation.
Trueblue Texan
(2,430 posts)For at least 30 years, right wingers have told blatant lies to convince others that their view of reality is legit. They have not troubled themselves to worry about the truth of their statements, indeed, they have knowingly lied to make their point or vilify democrats when it suited them. Any information to correct their lies is met with rages about left wing extremism, from personal interactions to accusations of the media. Anyone with a bias toward the truth is verbally assaulted with more lies and accusations of being radically Left. Even letters to the editor that disagree with the right wing agenda are met with aggressive and hateful assaults, online stalking, and any other method available to silence truth or dissent.
They have gotten by with this in large part for several reasons: 1. Folks on the Left tend to be a bit more rigorous in verifying the info they present and if someone says something they arent sure is false, they wont call it out unless they do know it to be false. IOW, they tend to do their homework better. 2. Many folks just dont want to argue and will walk away from such a confrontation, especially when the one lying does so in an aggressive and pugnacious manner. The resulting self-censorship has helped the Right bigly. 3. The double standard between misdeeds committed by those on the Right and those committed by those on the Left is starkly obvious and for the most part, not commented on. 4. Mainstream media has bent over backward, FAR to the right to avoid being characterized as liberal, to no avail, of course. 5. Those of us who have the energy have been doing the research for the lying Right for so long, correcting their right wing bullshit and destructive propaganda for so long, we are beyond exhausted, and yet their lies never stop.
Now our ship is perilously close to capsizing and the media is finally sounding the alarm, trying to wake us all up before we all go under. So now, like never before, NOW is the time to rage the truth at the liars! Tell the truth! SPEAK it! Make THEM uncomfortable! Make THEM cower down from confrontation. Make THEM self-censor! Show that we are not afraid to speak the truth and to fight for this nation and will NOT allow our Democracy to be overturned by their laziness in educating themselves and their recklessness in spreading false accusations. We are doing them a favor by saving their country because they are too F-ING stupid to save it themselves!
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)what you say is very true. We are also huge defenders of First Amendment rights so that is always in our heads. But NOT IN THEIRS. They know this and they plan accordingly.
HotTeaBag
(1,206 posts)unfortunate how easily we allow 'them' to effortlessly live in our heads.
His comment (and most all of what they say) is meant not to further a point of view or to underline a concern they might have with a Democratic administration or even to give voice to something they actually believe themselves - it's simply meant to get a rise in an attempt to 'own the Libs'.
Personally, I laugh off these sorts of things and engage only when I feel like the person is being sincere and there's room for debate. But it's clear that you invested a lot of time and thought into a plan to teach him a lesson of sorts, when I guarantee that he forgot about the exchange seconds after your initial encounter.
Again, do what you feel is right but I wish we had thicker skin.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)As you may know, I am an art historian and my head is buried in writing my new book. So I often shop for the needs of my handicapped husband and myself with my head wrapped around a particular work of art which I have to suspend to see to the weekly shopping list! My husband types it out neatly, with each category of shopping needs by aisle of the store! He knows I have an attention deficit.
I should write a book entitled "The Bruges Madonna in Aisle 7."
HotTeaBag
(1,206 posts)You have every damn right in the world to make your life livable and if you feel this is the remedy you need to take in this instance to make it so, then I am standing right behind you.
I've just noticed how easy it is for them to get under our skin and I wish it wasn't so.
As an art history major, the story just got a lot more interesting. Best class ever: Northern Renaissance Painting. (But this is the Michelangelo sculpture.) Brought back a flood of memories of being young and so entranced. Best wishes on your book!
Tech
(1,771 posts)gm of the store or higher.
dlk
(11,569 posts)The store manager should be informed. Harassing customers over politics, no matter their position, is bad for business.If I were a business owner, I would want to know if one of my employees was giving customers a hard time. Staying silent does no one any favor and gives tacit approval of his bad behavior, and lousy customer service. If left unchecked, bad behavior usually gets worse over time. However, I understand if you are afraid and/or dont feel comfortable reporting this man.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)thank you.
dlk
(11,569 posts)The reason were here is to help and take care of each other.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)We Dems are supposed to be above it all. But slander is slander.
dlk
(11,569 posts)We live in a country where women are not always granted control over their own body parts and new laws are frequently passed to deny women autonomy over their own bodies. Men dont ever have to face the same discrimination so it doesnt usually bother them quite so much. This store clerk was verbally assaulting you in a sneaky, underhanded way. He intended to be hurtful and upsetting. Words can be weapons that wound. When something hurts, its okay to say ouch.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)However, DUers are not marriage counselors!
radical noodle
(8,003 posts)so don't know what he said. I agree with commenters that speaking to him about it yourself might not be a good idea. Those people are so crazy, so rabid, that you might not be safe doing so.
Most employers do not want their employees to talk about politics to their customers, no matter which side of the fence they're on. I would report it.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)will defend himself. How he does that, I do not know but I figure his RW "tutors" will give him a defense. Maybe First Amendment or something we haven't thought about.
I WILL REPORT BACK HERE THE OUTCOME.
NurseJackie
(42,862 posts)Mr. Ected
(9,670 posts)For what it's worth, had the tables been turned and this had been a Democrat spouting lies about a Republican, I would feel the same way. Businesses should be apolitical. Those who can't keep politics out of their non-political jobs are potentially running off half of their company's client base. That's akin to stealing....a LOT. Report him.
NonPC
(305 posts)This employee crossed the line.
If you choose to make it a joke ("I thought he raped 8 women" then he knows it's okay to say it and he got away with it.
If you choose to avoid it, then you are empowering him.
If you choose to make a smug face, you are being passive-aggressive.
Get a backbone and report him to the manager.
Ask the manager what he will do. If he shrugs it off, then you need to tell him that you will take it up with corporate, as well as start a Facebook etc thread. That will get action.
This employee needs to have a written warning in his file. That is the only way to get his attention, and stop this unacceptable behavior. If he does it again to you, report him again.
Sometimes confrontation and termination is the only solution to a problem employee. Maybe he needs to be out digging trenches or working in a warehouse instead of interacting with customers.
Trust me, you are doing the store and your neighborhood a favor.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)the details of what happened and he wants me to report it but respects my privacy, too. I needed and appreciated his advice.
Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)Takket
(21,576 posts)Amaryllis
(9,524 posts)stopbush
(24,396 posts)And when it comes to white people agreeing, its 99%.
They believe this because there are rarely if ever consequences for what they say and do. A person like you shows a little disagreement but it goes no further. They assume that deep down inside, you agree with them, but you made a small scene in public because thats the PC thing to do.
You help perpetuate these memes and reward disgusting behavior by not reporting him.
Takket
(21,576 posts)i think you can't expect employees to completely muzzle themselves on the job but i certainly don't want to hear any employee in my company going on about rapists in the middle of the store with customers, regardless of what the topic is.
lettucebe
(2,336 posts)EveDibb
(34 posts)You sound like such a nice person and that is admirable.
I understand a lot of people are not comfortable with confrontation and it's easy for me to say confront him because my fight or flight response doesn't work correctly and I detest a cowardly bully, but it's time to take our power back. True, I would go up to him and say in a very snarky manner by the way you may not have a job any longer and then wave at him with a smile on my face every time I went in the store.
Boy they are fear based.
However, most people find confrontation uncomfortable and that is perfectly understandable. You still will take your power back by reporting him.
Also, remember Biden was vetted by Obama to be the vice president. I guarantee you they found any and every skeleton in biden's closet. It will not help if you tell this fact to this particular individual. Just something to keep in your back pocket to use if the moment is appropriate.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I think this is purely intimidation by a Trumpist employee of the supermarket. He's been trained one way or another to say such an inflammatory thing.
It is now my belief that this guy might have had a similar incident before. If so, this might mean his ultiimate showdown, when I report it to a manager.
I want to say something else about this guy. He is nearly 7 feet tall. He towers above everyone else. While that doesn't intimidate me, it certainly could intimidate others.
Your safety should always come first.
I'm a 5 foot tall white woman with a southern accent that makes me sound non threatening, don't know why and have realized over these many years that if it was me and him in a heated discussion they're not going to look at me as being the aggressor.
It also helps that I can think very fast on my feet.
It is going to take all of our gifts and talents and uniqueness to make these flat-earthers no longer have a seat at the table. We can do it, and we will do it.
Dan
(3,568 posts)But if you decide to report it, you be careful and aware of your surroundings.
Take care and good luck.
cwydro
(51,308 posts)Sorry, but it sounds like you're trying to goad him.
Simply ignore him. I've never in my life had a grocery person engage in a political conversation in a store. That's just bizarre.
Best not to be conversing with strangers during a pandemic anyway.
Maxheader
(4,373 posts)Due to lawsuits filed by fired workers, the managers have to record the problems.
Build a case...
Absenteeism...talk back to the bosses...poor worker, whatever..human resources gets involved..
BannonsLiver
(16,396 posts)Thats an option as well.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)I have informed (by phone) the manager of my supermarket.
He is a new manager, just took charge very recently. Since I do not know the name of the employee who made the statement I described him. This is important because the man is exceptionally tall, he literally towers over others in the stores -- you can't miss him -- and he is white and appears younger than he really is (he is probably in his mid 50s, based on conversations I have had with him in the past). I said he had always been helpful to me in the past and pleasant, never talking politics. And I explained the circumstances of our conversation.
I don't know what will happen next. My guess is he will talk to the employee and ask him what gives.
WyattKansas
(1,648 posts)He already forfeited any benefit of doubt and consideration about his family by his own actions.
CTyankee
(63,912 posts)Manager a new guy, was horrified to hear this. Very nice to me.
I was fair. I did include that the employee had been helpful in the past. I stressed that I really loved that store, that my husband and I are elderly and he is disabled, that we depend on the store and shop there regularly, that every staff member had been courteous and helpful.
I'm expecting a call back at some point this afternoon.