Conservatism IS a mental illness.

[Garion_55]

There i said it.

And so far, other than the virus, im not seeing a cure.

[sprinkleeninow]

1. It does seem as a pathology. eom

[Thekaspervote]

3. You're right!! It's pathological when an individual repeatedly chooses harmful destructive behaviors

Over ones that are healthy and supportive of mental and physical health

[roamer65]

4. Trumpism is definitely a mental illness.

Same illness that afflicted those who followed Jim Jones of the People’s Temple.

[canetoad]

5. You're not helping fight consertavism

By stating it is a mental illness. This statement suggests that with therapy, conservatism can be cured.

Politics has exposed and identified two main propensities existing in humans; the need to overcome, subjugate and profit from other humans and the need to view humanity as fellow strugglers on the planet and co-operate for the benefit of everyone.

This is a fact and will never change. It's the difference between the right wing vs left wing.

For one viewpoint to defeat the other, I can only see violence and war. For the viewpoints to co-exist, every member of society must chose co-operation over competition.

[roamer65]

6. I discern between Trumpism and conservatism.

Conservatism is a political ideology.

Trumpism is fascism. Therefore, it is a mental disorder.

We need to start making that discernment, IMO.

[canetoad]

7. I'm sorry, but you're wrong

Trumpism and/or fascism is at the extreme right end of the political scale.

Using the term 'mental illness' is a what's called a, 'thought terminating cliché'. It disinvites further reasoned discussion.

[roamer65]

9. In your opinion.

Trumpism represents incorrect brain functioning. Just like the people of Jonestown and the People’s Temple.

Deprogramming is in order in both of these cases of mental illness. Trumpism is a cult and needs to be dealt with appropriately.

[Jeroen]

11. And how would you accomplish that?

Arrest every conservative and force them into some sort of education program?

[roamer65]

12. Trumpism is not conservatism.

People like Rick Wilson and Steve Schmidt are conservatives, but not Trumpists.

As far as how to address it? You start by exposing all of the crimes committed by Trump. Just like the Allies did after the fall of Nazi Germany.

Like Rick Wilson said, you root out every Trump lackey from government and prosecute their crimes.

[Jeroen]

17. Agreed

I understand you reasoning but forcing people to change their minds has never worked, besides it’s a dangerous and unpractical endeavor.

Exposing Trumpists to the thruth, better ideas and a different way foreword is how to advance a reasonable agenda albeit progressive or conservative.

That is exactly what the Lincoln Project is doing and why it, hopefully, is successful enough to make a difference this November

[roamer65]

18. I like Representative Swalwell's idea.

A Presidential Crimes Commission.

Expose the crimes, punish those guilty and do it publically. That is deprogramming on a mass scale.

[Jeroen]

19. I like it as well

However I do not think that holding people (politicians) accountable and 'deprogramming the cult' are equivalent.
But let's not get into semantics, I think we are on the same page here.

[DFW]

8. Viewpoins morph and mutate. Orwell stated it so perfectly in "Animal Farm"

Even if violence ensues and the war is won, then what? There is never peace and brotherhood. Just look at Kerensky and Lenin.

In Germany, there is an expression that stems from too much experience and observation: Die Revolution frisst ihre Kinder auf. The revolution devours its children. You can revolt against humans, but you can't revolt against human nature. Conflicting viewpoints will always co-exist for a while, but when have they never ultimately NOT ended in conflict?

Mao once said, "Let a hundred flowers bloom. Let a hundred schools of thought contend." The trouble is that a hundred flowers can peaceably bloom, while a hundred schools of thought, if not restrained, will indeed contend, but never peaceably.

[canetoad]

10. Of all the rocks on my local beach

A two metre wide stripe of shiny black basalt stands out among the shale and sandstone. On either side of it the strata are flipped, vertically to 90 degrees.

Ancient movement flipped those rocks, ancient lava welled up between the upturned layers. I stand often at this spot and comtemplate our tiny presence on an ancient planet.

Do you ever wonder, at exactly what point of evolution, our simian ancestors split along the lines of compete or co-operate?

..thanks for your post. I agree.

[roamer65]

13. I have a vial of glassy tektites from the K-T boundary.

I look at it and wonder what it was like that day around 66 mya when the dinosaurs world ended.

The K-T boundary is the layer of material ejected from the asteroid impact near was is now the Yucatán peninsula of Mexico.

If one is having a bad day, think about that day for the dinosaurs around 66 mya.

[DFW]

27. As for our Simian ancestors

I can only surmise, but I would think that the co-operate/compete split must have come when the numbers necessary to survive surpassed the limit necessary for survival. The inherent restlessness and need to struggle would then have morphed from a need to defend the immediate population from extinction to a need to rule it. The Germans have a great word for that as well: "streitsüchtig." It is formed from the words "Streit," which can mean fight, argument or struggle, and the word "süchtig," which means addicted to, or in desperate need of. It is a word I have used--accurately, I regret to say--even about some that I have run into here on DU.

But "streitsüchtig" is a word I most often use to describe Republicans. Their need to create enemies stems from their inherent drive to fight someone. If they dare start the fight, it's often with a weaker neighbor of some minority group. Some even seem to join the police for the sole purpose of terrorizing people who have no means (or rights) to resist. If they don't dare, they amass cellars full of weapons to fight off the impending Taliban invasion they keep hearing about on National Hate Radio. That their weapons usually end up being used, if at all, on family members rather than the absent Taliban invaders constitutes nothing more than "collateral damage" in their eyes.

Göring's spot-on observation of how one creates support for an unnecessary war: if you want to create a desire to fight, you must first create the enemy. Think Dick Cheney and Saddam's weapons of mass destruction. None there to justify an invasion? Make them up, and the masses will follow. And so they did. They don't even have to believe the lie. All they have to do is WANT to.

[mr_lebowski]

14. I have long posited this same line of thought ...

I think for the most part the distinction is genetic ... I think us Liberals are more closely related to our bonobo cousins, and conservatives more like our chimpanzee cousins.

Also, cooperation is a much newer evolutionary development than simple self-preservation. Conservatives still have a lot of the primitive reptile brain genes being expressed, whereas liberals have less.

[roamer65]

15. That is an interesting hypothesis.

Bonobo vs chimpanzee genes and the expression of them.

[SheltieLover]

24. I agree with your statement regarding political propensities

There are most assuredly "givers" and "takers" and we all know which side each party identifies with.

However, as a former mental health professional, I respectfully wish to disagree wholeheartedly with your statement that classifying tRumpism or modern day conservatism as a mental illness being synonymous with the implication that "with therapy, conservatism can be cured."

There are a good many mental illnesses which cannot be cured with therapy and/or medication. Among them are autis, all personality disorders, bi-polar disorder, psychotic disorders, substance abuse, etc. Therapy and/or medications can help to manage symptoms; however, the word "cure" is never on the table.

Additionally, there are a good many medically objective research studies consistently reflecting differences in the brain structures between liberal vs. conservative participants. Here is one that explains the differences nicely:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3092984/

Interesting research! And this is research that most medical professionals are well aware of! This explains a lot about why conservatives are such whiny snowflakes, for example.

As with any human activity, behavior becomes pathological when actions interfere with daily functioning. For example, a couple of drinks with dinner is obviously not alcohol dependence, but constant drinking to the point of alienating friends and coworkers, not going to work due to hangovers, or in order to continue consuming alcohol is substance dependence.

Prior to the adoption by the mental health community of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 5 (2013), we used to diagnose on 5 axes:

1. Presenting symptoms (depression, anxiety, etc.)
2. ONLY personality disorders and cognitive impairment (aka IQ at or below 70; mental retardation)
3. Medical issues related to symptoms in #1 (i.e., after a heart attack or transplant, people are often depressed)
4. Psychosocial factors (unemployment, legal concerns, homelessness, etc.)
5. Global Assessment of Functioning (a scale of function used to determine severity of symptoms)

The reason that only personality disorders and cognitive impairments were diagnosed on axis 2 is that those are NOT treatable. You can try until you are blue in the face, but you are not going to change a personality disorder, because the symptoms and behaviors are so inextricably intertwined within the person that things are not going to change. Just like a tutor cannot raise the IQ level of a cognitively impaired person.

All that said, I concur that the behavior of tRumpists is definitely pathological. For example, every single day we see in the news that his supporters are physically attacking store and restaurant employees because they think they are "too special" to wear a mask during a pandemic. This is clearly demonstrative of anti-social personality disorder traits, if not a full blown disorder. Additionally, those supporting the current occupant of the White House willfully refute facts -- scientific, sociological, etc. Is this not delusional?

This has become so prevalent in our society that it is truly scary, in my honest opinion. I currently reside in an area of far right-wing nut jobs -- maskless ones, needless to say. So, if you have something nice - a nice car, for example - they will definitely vandalize it. If you have something they don't like -- say a "libtard" electric vehicle that they would never want to own, they will vandalize it. (This is a HUGE problem in red areas!) If a person does something they don't like, they vandalize your property. Ridiculous and indicates anti-social personality disorder traits. (In the younger set, <18 years old, this is conduct disorder, which most frequently develops into anti-social personality disorder.)

These people have not and most likely will not reach the level of post-conventional reasoning. Heck, a good many RWNJs have difficulties with conventional reasoning.

But you are correct in stating that it doesn't really do any good to discuss such things, because it is not as if they are going to change anytime soon. So pathologizing them won't work because treatment would have little to no effect and our current society tends to largely celebrate narcissists and, to some degree, anti-social personality traits.

My intention in posting all of this is simply to forearm you with information, not to argue the points presented.

[samplegirl]

16. There's no such thing as conservatism

anymore than there is compassion. That went out a long time ago.

[Voltaire2]

20. They are fascists.

[no_hypocrisy]

21. I'd say it's conservatism mixed with authoritarianism.

My father was like that. It makes people cruel, oblivious to the pain they cause others, and it makes them destructive.

[Garion_55]

22. hope i didnt go overboard

had a wee bit much tequila last night lol

i actually think conservatism like bill buckley, those old white guys who used to sit around and debate the facts, wasnt dangerous to this country. they were just wrong.

this current cult gop right wing conservative party has nothing to do with truth or policy or ideology. its all about worship the master, own the libs, fuck the country. fuck truth. fuck reality. just give them a figurehead to carry their hate and they are all good.

[nuxvomica]

23. I've been saying we need to seek a new paradigm if political thought

Neither from religion nor science, though retaining some parallels with both, but rather from myth and literature. The latter provides us with an understanding of the heroic cycle that mirrors individual development. We are born into the state of innocence, a state characterized by wonder, playfulness and honesty. It is the ideal state of humanity but it requires safety, provided by our elders, the fully developed individuals. A child so protected grows and matures, acquiring powers necessary to eventually face the challenges common to most of our lives called "rites of passage", decision points at which we either accept or reject the call to become the protectors ourselves. Those who reject the call were either inadequately protected in their childhood or so over-protected they were denied the ordinary rites of passage: first job, driving test, etc. Some were both, hence the title of Mary Trump's book, Too Much and Never Enough.

I could go on and on about this, with examples from literature and movies about how the hero reluctantly becomes the protector by sacrificing part of themselves, but the political question comes down to how do we convince those who have rejected that protector role that the opportunity to accept is always there, waiting for them to find the courage and take the action, and that there are rewards for doing so: new powers of personal agency and a state of contentment otherwise unknowable yet akin to that state of innocence to which we all long to return. My favorite example is Kurt Bardella, the fired Darrell Issa spokesman who had also worked for Breitbart. He noted that when he worked in conservative circles, no one ever argued policy because everyone walked in lock step but in liberal circles, the arguments never ended (ie. everyone challenged each other in mini trials like the rites of passage). But the remarkable thing about his conversion was that he cared more about people he'd never met. This caring was a burden (the burden of the hero) but despite that, or possibly because of it, he was happier than before.

[SheltieLover]

25. Yes, they are pathological!

How can one rationalize babies in cages and the other actions impotus has taken without lacking basic reasoning skills and empathy. How does one agree with not hearing evidence in a Senate impeachment trial? These are definitely not indicative of stable mental health.

As a former mental health professional, I respectfully wish to disagree wholeheartedly with the statement that classifying tRumpism or modern day conservatism as a mental illness being synonymous with the implication that "with therapy, conservatism can be cured."

There are many mental illnesses which cannot be "cured" with therapy and/or medication. Among them are autis, all personality disorders, bi-polar disorder, psychotic disorders, substance abuse, etc. Therapy and/or medications can help to manage symptoms; however, the word "cure" is never on the table.

Additionally, there are a good many medically objective research studies consistently reflecting differences in the brain structures between liberal vs. conservative participants. Here is one that explains the differences nicely:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3092984/

Interesting research! And this is research that most medical professionals are well aware of! This explains a lot about why conservatives are such whiny snowflakes, for example.

Also, the widely accepted Big 5 Personality Test (free online, if anyone is curious). It is pretty obvious which political party is high in openness to new experiences (i.e., "big tent of inclusion&quot , conscientiousness, extraversion (i.e., working across the aisle), and agreeableness (chump? LOL NOT!). It is also quite telling which party is high in neuroticism (Devin Nunes cow).

As with any human activity, behavior becomes pathological when actions interfere with daily functioning. For example, a couple of drinks with dinner is obviously not alcohol dependence, but constant drinking to the point of alienating friends and coworkers, not going to work due to hangovers, or in order to continue consuming alcohol is substance dependence.

Prior to the adoption by the mental health community of the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual 5 (2013), we used to diagnose on 5 axes:

1. Presenting symptoms (depression, anxiety, etc.)
2. ONLY personality disorders and cognitive impairment (aka IQ at or below 70; mental retardation)
3. Medical issues related to symptoms in #1 (i.e., after a heart attack or transplant, people are often depressed)
4. Psychosocial factors (unemployment, legal concerns, homelessness, etc.)
5. Global Assessment of Functioning (a scale of function used to determine severity of symptoms)

The reason that only personality disorders and cognitive impairments were diagnosed on axis 2 is that those are NOT treatable. You can try until you are blue in the face, but you are not going to change a personality disorder, because the symptoms and behaviors are so inextricably intertwined within the person that things are not going to change. Just like a tutor cannot raise the IQ level of a cognitively impaired person.

All that said, I concur that the behavior of tRumpists is definitely pathological. For example, every single day we see in the news that his supporters are physically attacking store and restaurant employees because they think they are "too special" to wear a mask during a pandemic. This is clearly demonstrative of anti-social personality disorder traits, if not a full blown disorder. Additionally, those supporting the current occupant of the White House willfully refute facts -- scientific, sociological, etc. Is this not delusional?

This has become so prevalent in our society that it is truly scary, in my honest opinion. I currently reside in an area of far right-wing nut jobs -- maskless ones, needless to say. So, if you have something nice - a nice car, for example - they will definitely vandalize it. If you have something they don't like -- say a "libtard" electric vehicle that they would never want to own, they will vandalize it. (This is a HUGE problem in red areas!) If a person does something they don't like, they vandalize your property. Ridiculous and indicates anti-social personality disorder traits. (In the younger set, <18 years old, this is conduct disorder, which most frequently develops into anti-social personality disorder.)

These people have not and most likely will not reach the level of post-conventional reasoning. Heck, a good many RWNJs have difficulties with conventional reasoning. As an example, many of the road signs in the area where I live are riddled with bullet holes. Not a good indication of stable mental health. Shooting up street signs and vandalism are the redneck idea of "having fun." Hard to imagine, I know.

But it doesn't really do any good to discuss such things, because it is not as if they are going to change anytime soon. So pathologizing them won't work because treatment would have little to no effect and our current society tends to largely celebrate narcissists, to some degree, anti-social personality traits.

My intention in posting all of this is simply to forearm you with some insights in what we are dealing with. I believe tRumpists have fixed delusions and that many of them demonstrate anti-social and histrionic personality disorder traits. That is, sadly, not likely to change.

[SheltieLover]

26. Here is an exceptionally well written article by Paul Levy, Jungian Analyst

which addresses the "Madness of GW Bush." His contention is that our collective psychosis needs attention. He calls it as "malignant egophrenia" which is, of course, not a real mental health diagnosis.

However, Paul Levy is a Jungian anayst, so he is coming at this problem from a completely different angle: psychospiritual (not religious).

Enjoy!

https://www.scoop.co.nz/stories/HL0412/S00132/paul-levy-the-madness-of-george-w-bush.htm