Why are computers so stupidly difficult to operate? UPDATE!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

Last edited Mon Aug 17, 2020, 06:05 PM - Edit history (1)

I tried one last unplug and plug back in the power cord, and it decided it would work again. And my new keyboard is typing away right now.

I am very grateful to all of the suggestions offered here. They were genuinely helpful. I am going to chalk this one up to the computer gods messing with me once again. But I really always get good parking spaces. And if I'm simply a passenger in your car, even if you never normally get good parking, I can pretty much guarantee my presence will be beneficial.

Thanks again to all

Poindexter



My desktop decided to turn itself off and won't be turned back on. I have zero idea why. Luckily I also have this laptop, and the modem eventually was willing to reboot, so I'm back on the internet. I guess I'll be calling the Geek Squad tomorrow.

But still. Computers should be about as complex as a toaster.

I will be 72 years old in less than a week. I drive a stick shift car. Computers should absolutely not as complex or as difficult as driving a stick shift. Perhaps more to the point, I've been using computers since before most people these days were born. In January, 1969, I went to work for the very second airline in this country, which means probably in the entire world, to transition to a fully computerized reservation system. Yeah, tiny little Mohawk Airlines, based out of Utica, NY, taken over by Allegheny in 1972. But in early 1969 we had computers. Do not get me started about some major airlines that took several years longer to get their computers up and operational.

So why do modern computers behave like divas, or maybe Kardashians on some kind of bender? It really, really, should not be this hard.

So to all of you who think driving a stick shift is hard, envision something insulting. The stick shift is vastly easier than computers.

For years now I've thought that computer people need to test everything on their mothers or grandmothers. And if those women get as savvy as their sons and daughters, they need to enlist someone else's mothers and grandmothers. Again, I'm hardly someone who only discovered the wonderful world of computers recently. It really, really shouldn't be this hard.

[mr_lebowski]

1. Unplug it from the wall for about a minute, plug it back in, and try again ...

There's not actually very many things this could be (likely things anyway). Any chance it got a good jostle since the last time it was turned on?

Also make sure the outlet has power by plugging in something else ... just in case you didn't already try that ... no offense

[dweller]

2. have you

unplugged it, and replugged it?
maybe the socket has tripped?


✌🏼

[Midnight Writer]

3. Really. I kept thinking they would make it all simple, easy, idiot proof.

Surely the technology is here.

I was an early adopter of home computers, learned Basic and wrote simple programs.

Thought the graphic interfaces of Atari and Commodore were promising.

But Windows came out on top.

And it confuses the hell out of me.

[Happy Hoosier]

102. Windows 10 is fairly easy to use....

... if you just want an appliance. But with simplicity comes limitations as well. Phones and tablets tend to be very easy to operate, but they have a locked-down hardware set with very little flexibility. You get what you get.

If that's the experience you want, a Mac is probably better for you. But you'll pay more for less, as they say.

[Big Blue Marble]

4. I would argue they are no more difficult to manage than other equipment.

When my dryer quits, or my frig stops working, I call a service person. When my plumbing fails or
my A/C shuts down, I call a professional, same with my car or electrical outlets.

I would not attempt to know how to fix or repair these items. I am very grateful to have reliable
honest service people that I can call.

Computers are similar. I am often able to get computers back up and running (and I am
an elder), but there are times when I must reach out for computer service as well. We, mostly,
benefit from the complex equipment that fills our lives, but when our stuff acts up, it is nice to have support.

[blueniteflower]

107. youtube

youtube has been a game-changer. We've tried to see if it is something we can fix via a youtube video, and 9/10 (or higher) we can figure out the problem and fix it ourselves. Only thing we avoid are plumbing and electrical issues. but appliances have nearly always been easy to fix with googling the issue and watching someone fix it on youtube.

[Big Blue Marble]

111. I love YouTube, too. It often helps....

but there times when I need an expert. Last month my 32 year old heat pump quit,
I was sure I was looking at 9 or 10K for a new system. My HVAC guy came out in two
hours and had it back up with a couple of new parts in less than one hour. Cost:$230.
On average, I spend two or three hundred a year to keep my equipment running without
the hassle and stress of DIY repairs.

[Ani Yun Wiya]

5. The problem could be as simple as...

...a dead power supply. Do any lights of any sort come on when you power it up?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

10. The computer itself won't power up. The modem did,

which is how I am on the internet right now.

Everything was fine until I took out the little thingy (whatever it is called) that connected a keyboard, because I'd killed that keyboard by spilling wine on it. The new one arrived yesterday, and I decided it was time to take out that little thingy for the old one and plug in the new one. Same make and model of keyboard. I've done this replacement more than once. Only now, the computer is essentially having a hissy fit and refusing to talk to anyone.

[cayugafalls]

14. If this is a desktop computer and you removed the USB Dongle for the keyboard (thingy)

You might have accidentally jostled the power cable that plugs into the back of the computer. From the wall to the computer there is a power cable. It connects to the back of the computer via a weird three pronged female adapter. Sometimes they get loose and can cause the computer to power down, while still seeming to be connected to the computer. Try pushing in the power connector on the back of the computer to make sure it is seated firmly.

Let me know what happens.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

19. I have already double checked every single one of those too many plugs

and made sure they are secure. Double, triple, and quadrupled checked,

It's as if the tower itself is dead.

Well, at least I pay for Geek Squad. Just hope there isn't too long a wait for the local guy to come to my house. He's been here before, and apparently, according to him, I am actually more knowledgeable than most people he has to deal with.

I will say this. I am obviously a senior citizen. I have various issues and problems with modern technology. But I have NEVER had a young person roll his eyes or act even remotely put out at my incompetence. Especially here in New Mexico where I live. They all have mothers and grandmothers and honestly, I look like Grandma or maybe even Great-Grandma to most of these young people and they always treat me quite nicely.

In fact, the very rare times I get some kind of a traffic stop, because I really was driving too fast, or the cop thought I didn't stop well enough at the stop sign, even though I thought I did, I never get a ticket. I know that even though I'm obviously Anglo, not Hispanic, there is such a strong culture of respecting the elders, especially the female elders, that I'm yet to come across a cop willing to ticket Grandma. Lucky me. I do understand this is Older White Lady Privilege and I try very hard not to take advantage of it.

[marlakay]

61. My computer is a old apple desktop from 2008

I got a error that wouldn't let me open up computer at all. I thought this is finally it, it is dead too old, but I read on a forum that apple will still talk to you even if not under warranty so i called.

I am 64 and ok with computers like you but not a wiz, lol. Nice young guy led me step by patient step into safe mode and we worked out the error and I still have my desk top.

I am thinking of upgrading though because they just stopped doing updates for security for it.

Good luck! And like you I have back up with my ipad.

[LuckyCharms]

90. Dongle? Weird three pronged female adapter?

[cayugafalls]

15. Oops, looks like you tried that already, sorry.

Does the computer do anything when you press the power button? Anything at all?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

20. Nothing.

It is dead.

[cayugafalls]

26. Then it is either the power supply, or an onboard capacitor.

They can blow at any time.

Also, I know you have probably tried this, but have you tried moving the power plug from the jack it is plugged into to a new jack on the power strip? Sometimes a power strip jack will go bad really fast and it will appear that the computer is dead when it is actually the power strip has lost one of it's plugs.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

28. I sort of hate to try that for fear I'll lose the modem in the process.

Last edited Mon Aug 17, 2020, 03:57 AM - Edit history (1)

I suppose that what you've suggested could happened coincidentally with my swapping out the keyboard, but that feels unlikely.

[cayugafalls]

32. So long as you are careful and only unplug the PC, your modem should not be impacted at all

If something does happen and the modem disconnects, wait until the modem fully reconnects before trying to connect to the internet.

If the modem is accidentally unplugged, wait a minute then plug back in. Windows should heal the internet connection once the modem is back online, no reboot should be required.

Windows has self healing internet and should reconnect automatically once the modem is back online. You should see the little internet icon in the windows tray change.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. I might look very carefully at all the plugs and cords

Last edited Mon Aug 17, 2020, 03:57 AM - Edit history (1)

on the back of the computer to do that.

Which actually brings me again to complaining about how unnecessarily complex this all is. Once more I bring up driving a stick shift. This should not be any more difficult than that, but it is. Vastly more difficult. And people thinking that driving a stick shift is hard. Ha! Managing your computers is several orders of magnitude more complex and difficult.

Shall I tell you about My Son The Astronomer and how he and I discuss things like the Big Bang, and the sun's magnitude as seen from various planets, and stuff about calculus? Those are trivial compared to managing a computer. I could probably derive the formula to solve quadratic equations, and yet these stupid computers leave me baffled and helpless.

Doesn't Bill Gates have a mom? Or does she simply get unlimited computer support so it doesn't matter?

[cayugafalls]

46. I'm afraid I have to agree with you.

All the cords can get quite fearsome after a while and all the things we string together and plug into the power strips.

I think you are very smart and have way more knowledge than you give yourself credit for. When I was just starting out in computers I used to crash the PC all the time as I hacked my way around software coding and installations. But I persevered and realized that it would turn back on at some point and if I stuck with it I could figure it out.

You have a box (PC). The box needs power. The power cable provides that power. Peripheral devices (mouse, keyboard, monitor, Ethernet cable) all plug into the back of the box. If you go wireless, you don't have the Ethernet cable and your computer talks to the modem over the air.

The modem is like a computer for getting on the internet. It is a box. It has a power cable. If it is wireless, that is all you need, but all of them have Ethernet cables for connecting to a PC for setup and hard connections when needed. The modem has a cable to connect to the wall that connects to the Internet Provider.

The reason we think of a car as being easy is because we have had them for over 100 years and advances have made them very easy to operate. In the beginning, there were lots of startup procedures that needed to be done before you could start the engine and get in the car. You had to check the plug wires, prime the carburetor, if it was diesel, you had to wait for the glow plugs to heat up, then you had to crank the engine crank and hope it started. While driving any number of things could go wrong, tires were thin and burst often, plug wires shook loose, etc...

Anyways, we are at the beginning of what computers can do, even though we are SO advanced.

I hope the Geek Squad can help you out tomorrow.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

51. Thank you for all that. It truly is helpful.

My very first car, a 1959 Volkswagon Beetle, had a choke. Not sure if you even know what that was, but it was a way of controlling how rich the gas mixture was to the engine. In the winter it was wonderful and amazing and useful and made the car much easier to operate. I owned that car in 1967-68. Sold it, and did without a car until 1976. Another Beetle, this time one made in 1969, so no choke. I sort of missed it, missed the control it gave me.

I'm old. But still feisty.

[Klaralven]

88. Some PCs won't boot without a keyboard

Perhaps your desktop is not recognizing the new keyboard, which sounds like a wireless keyboard from your post.

If you have an old wired keyboard lying about, plug that in and try to boot. If the desktop is an older model, it likely came with a wired keyboard originally.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

115. I haven't had a wired keyboard in years.

And the new one is the exact same make and model as the one I spilled wine on. This computer is relatively new, so well post-wired keyboards.

Again, it simply won't boot. And it was working perfectly fine until I went to swap out the keyboard.

[SharonAnn]

99. Did your monitor cable come out or loose?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

116. Somehow I don't think the monitor is the problem.

Not when the computer itself simply won't turn on.

And again, I have checked every single one of the many cords and such multiple times.

[zipplewrath]

6. Smart

Because the market wants them to be "smart ". As such they are prone to "strokes ". The average consumer used to be able to maintain a car. As we have moved towards more self managing cars (engines) they have become unmaintainable.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

36. As long ago as the mid 1970s a man I knew said that cars were becoming

too complicated for him to maintain by himself.

[zipplewrath]

94. Late 80s

A mechanic of mine admitted that for new cars 50% of the work he did was to replace the primary control unit (computer).

[Happy Hoosier]

103. Many modern efficiencies in cars....

Come from electronic systems actively managing them. If we still want smoggy cars with poor fuel efficiency, then sure, the old cars were easier to maintain.

[qazplm135]

7. Be more specific

Won't turn on at all? Then yeah it could be as simple as a power supply. It's a box that distributes power to the various parts of the computer. Or one of those wires could be loose blocking power.

Not turning on at all isn't a huge problem.

Now if you mean, it won't boot up that can be a myriad number of problems.

I would check the power plug first.

If that doesn't help, unplug it, and open the case and check the power supply connections. After that, you will likely need help. Best Buy has the Geek Squad for example.

I've upgraded or replaced every part of a computer except the motherboard. It's really not that hard.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

9. The modem itself rebooted, and I'm back on the internet.

Just not on the desktop. Only the laptop.

And I will probably call the Geek Squad tomorrow. Belonging to them has been money very well spent.

I do think that this is one of the times I'll need the GS person to come to my house. I can't imagine a phone consult being useful.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

12. Then why was it fine until I took out the little thingy

for the keyboard? How could that affect a power plug? Everything was fine until I started to switch out the keyboard. And I REALLY don't want to fuck with the power plug, for fear of losing the internet.

And I am not qualified to open the case and check anything at all. I am grateful for the Geek Squad.

[qazplm135]

31. I'm assuming when

You unplugged the keyboard you jostled the power in some way. How old is the computer?

There's videos for everything and they color code or otherwise make everything easy to understand inside.

I was intimidated at first too, but I took a chance and it's not hard.

If you ever decide to buy a new computer, spend some time learning the old one.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

37. This is a relatively new computer. A year or so old.

I bought my first computer in 1992, and have upgraded/bought new ones pretty regularly since.

I honest to god cannot figure out why trying to swap out a keyboard should shut down the desk top. And again, I've checked every single connection several times. I'm just not willing to unplug the power supply. For one thing, that would no doubt turn off the modem, which I'm wanting to use to get on the internet. Sigh.

I really, really appreciate everyone's input and suggestions.

[qazplm135]

39. Is the computer off or the monitor?

Did you check that?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

52. Computer is off. The power button does absolutely nothing.

I know that it should give me an orange light when I press it. No orange light.

[Klaralven]

91. Have you tried a hard shutdown?

Press and hold the power button for 10 to 15 seconds to cause a hard shutdown. Then release the power button and press it again to try to reboot.

A hard shutdown might fix the problem if the PC is stuck in sleep or hibernate modes.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

117. Yes, I have tried that.

Nada. Zilch. Nothing.

[Mosby]

95. My power on button failed on my tower

It was actually a plastic piece that failed to actuate the real switch, i removed it and now I have access to the little micro switch, it sticks out the hole where the plastic shit used to be. Problem solved.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

8. I have not tried the unplug replug, especially since the modem itself rebooted.

I will reboot, but unplug replug is a brutal thing that can actually cause damage, that much I know.

Oh, dear lord. If I were 22 and didn't have a more than fifty year history on computers I'd probably be less frustrated. But FIFTY YEARS??? Why is it harder now than a half century ago?

[marlakay]

67. Now you sound like me and all the remotes

We have!

We can't even record shows we could in the 80's with a VCR because we cut the cord on cable. We just watch streaming mostly anyway but its crazy a things got so complicated.

I mean using anything now from a washing machine to microwave has extra buttons, my new car has so many things I need to learn its nuts! Can I go back to my VW bug with the cool station from SF I listened to for free as a teen?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

79. Almost two years ago I bought my current car,

a 2017 Honda Fit. It replaces a 2004 Honda Civic. I am in awe of the recent technology.

I don't think I will ever again go so long without replacing a car.

[AmyStrange]

11. It isn't the computer's fault...

-

it’s the coder’s fault.

Before anyone gets in a tizzy, there are a lot of good coders out there. It’s just that most of them don’t work for the OS people.

There’s a reason why apps and OS programs are constantly being updated. It’s to fix the problems in the last update.

I know you’re not stupid, but did you check to see if the two parts of your power cord are firmly connected?

Some desktops are setup like that, but it doesn’t sound like yours is.

I’ve done a hard reboot with a desktop many times (it’s the same as plugging and unplugging), and I never had a problem. It just takes a little longer to restart.

I’ve had a computer die on me before, losing all my work, so now I work from a USB flash drive and keep a copy on my computer.

Anyway, good luck.
=========

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

13. Thank you.

I did immediately check to make sure that all the plug ins were secure. They are.

Again, the problem abruptly came up when I was trying to swap out a new keyboard. That should not initiate this sort of problem.

I can get pretty pissy about computer problems, and this is one of those times. I'll repeat: I drive a stick shift. I'm a week from turning 72. Computers should not be even remotely as tricky as driving a stick shift. Oh, and I have AAA. A couple of years ago I got a flat tire on a Sunday morning in West Bumfuck, OK. Not the name of the real town, but you get the idea. Called AAA. They sent out a tow truck drive, who could have simply put the donut tire where the flat was and sent me on my way, but he said, "I know the guy who owns the tire store in town. Let me call him." Call was put through. The store owner was willing to come in, sell me a new tire, which the AAA guy then put on my car. Wow. I gave him twenty bucks as a tip.

That was a piece of cake compared to, now my desktop won't turn on. And I haven't a clue why. Oh, and it took about seven or more attempts to reboot to get back on the internet. So now do you understand why I'm so hesitant to unplug the computer?

[AmyStrange]

18. I've worked with them since the 70s also, and...

-

they still frustrate the shit out me.

Anyway, good luck again, and here’s hoping it ain’t anything serious or expensive!
==========

[AmyStrange]

25. Hmmm the keyboard thing really bothers me.

-

How the hell could that break your computer? They use very little current (around 3 mAmps).

The only thing I can think of is that maybe near where you plugged it in is a small reset switch or fuse. A lot of desktops are built like that.

Anyway, sorry for bothering you again.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

30. Right. My feelings exactly.

Everything was fine. I killed the keyboard about a week ago, finally got the replacement keyboard. Because I also have a mouse, I'd been using the desktop for things like watching stuff on Hulu, Amazon, Netflix. Even my email. If I wanted to type I reply, I'd walk into the other room (my dining room) where this laptop is and type away. But of course that's inconvenient, so of course I ordered a new keyboard. Exactly the same make and model as the old one, in case that even matters. As soon as I took our the old thingy (I'm sure there's a name for it but I can't think of it) that plugs into one of those ports (is that what they are called?) in the computer tower, it turned itself off and took quite a while for the modem to properly reboot. Quite a while as in about 15 minutes. Which is several trillion years in computer time.

At least the modem did reboot, which is why I am curmudgeonly complaining here on DU.

[AmyStrange]

45. Rant away. Personally, I hate HPs.

-

A couple years ago, someone stole my power cord, but I found a new one at RePC (Couldn't find the right one anywhere. Even the universal connectors didn't fit), plugged it in, and it worked fine, EXCEPT Hewlett Packard wouldn't let it charge my computer, because it wasn't one of theirs.

What a load of shit, I thought, but I quickly figured out a way around those bastards, and now they've lost a good customer.

Fucking idiots!!!

Sorry.
==============

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

62. My computer is not a Hewlitt Packard.

I think my very first one, almost thirty years ago (Oh, dear lord, how is that possible?) was an HP. I think that was the only HP I ever had, mainly because they had a lot of proprietary crap that made life difficult.

[AmyStrange]

69. Sorry about that, but it would not surprise me if ALL computers were like the HP.

-

I owned a Dell once, and wanted to upgrade the RAM memory, but I had to buy them from Dell, and they were NOT cheap.

Computer engineers suck too!

Ok, that's enough and thank you for this thread. It was very interesting.
========

[Grasswire2]

16. I've been looking at printers for two hours on amazon...

Can't get myself to take the plunge after reading the reviews and comments.

My new HP laptop will NOT communicate with my older printer. Not with wifi. Not with USB cable. Something to do with windows 10, I've been told.

So how do I ensure that a new inexpensive printer will?

I don't want it to talk to Alexa. I don't even want it to be wireless. I don't want instant ink scam.

I just want a plain, basic printer-scanner-copier that connects by printer cable. It will see very light use. But when I need it, I need it.

[cayugafalls]

23. If you have the USB cable here is a good printer on Amazon.

You dont have to setup Alexa or wireless to use, just plug the USB cable into the PC and it should install.

https://www.amazon.com/HP-OfficeJet-6978-Wireless-Replenishment/dp/B01FS2W6I8/ref=sr_1_2?dchild=1&keywords=HP%2BOfficeJet%2BPro%2B6978&qid=1597644085&sr=8-2&th=1

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

24. For me, when I'm needing to purchase some new technology,

I usually go to my local Best Buy and chat with the staff there. They are usually incredibly helpful, and since I pay for Geek Squad I generally get all the help I need.

Right now my printer/copier/scanner isn't always willing to scan, and it may be time to replace that particular thing.

I will say, that I'm old enough to remember when photocopies cost twenty-five cents per page, which would be about two dollars a page today. That I can own my own photocopier is mind-boggling.

Oh, and if you want to learn the history and development of photocopying, you absolutely must read Copies in Seconds by David Bowen. It's incredible. I honestly cannot ever photocopy anything without flashing back on to the history of that technology and being completely blown away. Really. Read it. You will be transformed. Trust me.

[Salviati]

29. If you're getting a new printer...

... don't get an inkjet if you don't absolutely need one. A laser printer will be much less hassle and will work better with light use, toner doesn't dry up, and is much, much cheaper in the long run.

[cayugafalls]

33. Just saw that the printer i rec'd was used. my bad.

Sorry for that.

[Grasswire2]

38. no prob

But why does it say PHOTO PRINTER when it also says "copy, scan, fax"??

I have found that confusing.

[cayugafalls]

48. Because you can put photo stock in it and it will print a picture.

I can help you more if you want to find a good printer, but in looking I just spoke with my son and he said it is hard to get printers right now because lots of kids are starting college and printers are being ordered left and right.

I will look some more for some good rec's but all printers have USB connectivity (direct cable) you just have to have the cable yourself, they do not provide on in the box.

Also, about that instant ink deal, since you will not be going online and setting up wireless, you will not be signing up for instant ink so do not worry about any of that marketing jazz.

[smirkymonkey]

17. Until you get your desktop fixed, hopefully this will be a cathartic little fantasy for you...

From Office Space.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

21. Oh, yes!

Love that movie.

Thank you.

[AmyStrange]

53. Get thee behind me Satan!

-

I have two old nonworking desktops in my shed, and I also have a bat!!

Wooohooo!!!
============

[smirkymonkey]

54. Have at it!

[AmyStrange]

57. I love you too...

-

(bastard)
============

[fleabiscuit]

22. I feel your pain.

I once taught classes for a few years on how to use a computer; specifically geared to seniors. And I was often recruited to visit them at home for some one-on-one. When troubleshooting, I only had one bit advise to give them... "It's always the cord."

Of course that was only an easy way to get them to remember to look at the simplest possible causes of trouble first. Glad you got it up and going. Personally when my old Mac finally ages out, my next "computer" is going to be the best tablet Apple sells. With cell service too! Always get cell service capability!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

27. Thank you for your empathy.

I did learn early on that the simplest solutions were often the correct ones.

An early problem, when I worked at the airport, was that we'd inadvertently drop a pen into the typewriter thing that we used. Keep in mind, this was 1969, very very early in the computer world. We had a version of an IBM Selectric behind the ticket counter that we used to access our reservations system. Too many times it would suddenly stop working, we'd call for a service person, only to discover we'd dropped a pen into it. After a bit we learned to look for that first thing.

Another thing I learned early on that rebooting solved lots of problems. Even now, I sometimes have to remind myself that rebooting can be a good solution.

Oh, well. Over the years I have gotten more than my money's worth from the Geek Squad, and if Miguel is still the local guy they send out, well he's eye candy for an old lady, so I'll be happy to see him.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

34. I want to say THANK YOU to everyone who has responded to me.

Even if I haven't been able to solve my problem, I'm incredibly grateful to all of you and how much you have tried to help me.

[Grasswire2]

41. I agree with your premise.

When I recently bought a new laptop, I kept wondering why HP or someone doesn't sell a "BASIC" model? I need probably ten percent of what's loaded on a new computer. The rest is just junk and clutter.

I wanted an editor's model. Very simple.

I might even pay a little bit more for a very plain model.

And that is what I want in a printer. Just the basics. No wireless. No Alexa, for God's sake. Etc.

[OnDoutside]

40. Do you ever, periodically, get your car serviced ?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

44. Yes, I do. I've learned to be very good about that.

Do computers need the equivalent?

[OnDoutside]

58. I've learnt over the years that a periodic tune up by a (trustworthy) PC Repair shop, maybe every

2-3 years, is a good idea. Especially nowadays with faster processing chips causing increased heat, and the thermal paste that it sits in (to prevent overheating), eventually can disintegrate. The other main issue is build up of dust, again especially around the fan.

Actually, I will be sending my laptop in for a service in the next couple of weeks, to renew the thermal paste, and I'm thinking of ordering a new fan, just to keep ahead of the game.

When you think of it that you use you car mostly at certain times of the day, a lot of people (myself included) turn their PC/Laptop on in the morning, and don't switch it off until late at night, most days, there's an automatic expectation that it will never breakdown. And most times they don't, until that time when you REALLY need it ! Lol.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

60. Hmmmm. I have never done a periodic tune up with my PC.

Never had any clue that it might be important.

I normally don't turn off my computers. I do an occasional reboot, and of course they periodically reboot themselves because that's what happens.

My now ex used to say that turning computers on and off all the time was a Very Bad Thing To Do, that they did much better being left on all the time.

But among the reasons I have both a laptop and a desktop is for situations like this. Similarly, I maintain both a landline and a cell phone for phone service.

[OnDoutside]

70. I've seen people prefer to not turn their computer off, as the device gets older. Certainly if

you shut your PC down 3 or 4 times a day (and then have to start it back up again), that will have an effect over time. I've always gone for the shutdown last thing at night, and restart in the morning, on the basis that we all need a rest ! However, for me, the biggest concern is heat build up, and forces the fan to work a lot harder to keep the temperature down. Dust buildup around the fan can then be a problem, which over time it will be anyway.

In the past, boot up times used to take ages, but with a lot of the newer laptops containing SSDs as their main boot up drive, it takes seconds. My own laptop takes about 10 seconds to boot up, and that's after 3 years.

I agree with you about having backups. I gave my son my old laptop (it's about 7 years old now) but it's there if I need it, and still is really fast as I always get the best I can when i buy a new one. So even my old laptop has an i7 chip and 16gb ram.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

73. I rarely turn off my computers.

Last edited Mon Aug 17, 2020, 05:27 AM - Edit history (1)

Definitely not several times a day. Several times a month is more like it. Maybe even less. That's one thing I learned over fifty years ago (gasp! Yes, really over fifty years ago now!) when I was first with the airlines.

My very first job after high school, and after I dropped out of college, was with the Credit Bureau in Tucson. I think they were the only ones in town back then. 1966. So here's how it worked: You applied for a credit card at Sears, for instance. You'd fill out the application, they'd call in to us, give us the information you'd given them, we'd go to our file cabinets, see what we had on you, and tell Sears. You'd then get or not get the credit card.

It was actually an amazing and interesting job. As a side note, I became completely opposed to naming a son So and So junior, or worse yet III or any other numbers. Aside from the philosophical thing that all kids deserve their own name, I saw far too many cases where the credit files of father and son, because they lived at the same address, got hopelessly intertwined. It was invariably a mess. But more to the point, as early as 1966, the credit bureau/credit reporting industry was looking forward to computerizing those records. I left that job in 1967 to work for the telephone company, Ma Bell, as an information operator, so I don't know just how quickly that industry computerized.

I can tell you this. That in January, 1969, when I went to work for Mohawk Airlines, the first day I worked, January 20, 1969, was the last day of the non-computerized reservation system. January 21, it was all computerized. Other airlines were much slower to convert to computerized systems, which led to various problems and confrontations about whether or not reservations were valid. I could give you more details, but probably most of you are not interested.

I will say this: I got good at figuring out various work-arounds. There were various passenger lists we could call up, and over time I experimented and found out all of the lists we could access. That came in extremely handy when one of our planes crashed, and I could re-create the actual PNL (Passenger Name List) of all who were actually on board, the normal PNL not being available to access.

So yeah, I might be better at this than I give myself credit for.

[DonaldsRump]

124. If you have a Windows-based system, consider a couple of shareware programs

I routinely use two shareware programs for my Windows computers (a) Advanced Systemcare and (b) CCleaner. With these two programs (which are highly functional even in the freeware mode), you can take care of a lot of common software/operating system/browser problems. They are not THAT difficult to use, and I find that by using them every month or so, my Windows-based PCs run faster.

I used to be of the school of thought about leaving computers on forever. However, these days, I turn them off at night/when I'm finished for the day. It saves energy, and as the OP said, rebooting does seem to clear up a lot of the mess in a Windows-based system. I guess more than anything, I want to save a bit of energy.

I have TONS of computers at home. I haven't gotten rid of a computer since 2013. I am usually able to repair all software issues by myself, and I have about a 60% success rate on hardware issues. Luckily, we have a place near where we live that will repair all PC issues for a flat rate, and will install parts that you source (if they source it, they still don't surcharge on the part), so that gives me confidence. I had a nice laptop that had a touchpad that barely worked and was able to get a part for it and have this company install it. Bingo, I have a nice kinda' new computer that I can use as a back up or to give to family member or to give away to a school/charity. I still have a 2013 Dell that works like a top...I nearly threw it out, but the charging port was broken. I got a new port via eBay for about $8, did the fix myself, and maintain it using the shareware programs mentioned above. It works GREAT.

I find huge satisfaction if I am able to fix a computer problem. Others can't be bothered, which is also cool. This is why I have a ton of PCs, Chromebooks, and Macs at home!

[tandem5]

42. But what does this modem thing have to do with the desktop? Why is it "rebooting" at all?

And why does unplugging the computer disrupt the modem box thing's power? And did you have to reach around back to pull out the usb keyboard receiver?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

47. On this computer, the plug-in places for the USB thing

are in the back. The modem is connected to the desktop. Or at least, from my semi-ignorant perspective, seems to be.

I have not unplugged the computer itself, because I don't want to disrupt my current connection to the internet. I'm using my laptop right now to communicate here.

My problem is that the desktop turned itself off and refuses to turn back on. I've checked all of the connections and they seem sound and working. But the desktop is dead.

The modem went through a number of reboots, at least five or six, before it came on and stayed on.

[tandem5]

50. Most power supplies have a little "rocker switch" next to where the power cord connects to

the computer. Is that rocker switch set to the "1" position?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

63. Nope. I looked back there and there is no such switch.

But I really do appreciate the advice.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

43. I often say that, with all due respect to your personal beliefs,

I have come to the conclusion that monotheism doesn't explain everything. There seem to be multiple deities, or whatever, that control things. I call them gods, lower case g. You might prefer another term.

So here's the thing. The technology gods really don't like me. They fuck with me at every possible opportunity. Witness this entire thread. On the other hand, the parking gods ADORE me. I always get good parking spaces. I've even driven into parking garages that have a FULL sign out front, and as I drive up, someone pulls out of a space right next to the entrance I need. And I don't have to be the driver. If I'm your passenger, trust me, you'll get good parking. This happens over and over. A while back I was going to an event at a local theater in Santa Fe, and as I drove up, someone pulled out of a space directly across from the theater. Of course I pulled in.

[AmyStrange]

49. God is really gravity, and...

-

she lives in my attic.

Ha ha, sorry, but think about it. Without gravity everything would just disappear.

Hmmm, maybe I'm smoking too much pot?

Naw, that'll never happen... now, what were we talking about again?
============

[LeftInTX]

55. Modern computers are nothing like the old computers

And there are often software bugs because there is so much frikkin code in them. Also if there was an error in the the code of the old computers, the program usually "bombed". Now a days, if there is a bug, it may not be spotted until an end user does: x y z a b c te
d...I can think of a million combinations until whatever they do causes a computer to freeze up.

[AmyStrange]

65. Yeah, most times it's because of some kind of a memory conflict.

-

One program wants to access the memory at the same time as another, and boom, the code starts looping, and freezes everything.

Nowadays, most code is written in modules, and someone later puts them all together, and well, that's where a lot of the OS problems originate... at least in my opinion anyway.
=============

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

56. Well, I did finally unplug and plug back in the power cords, and even though

then when I pressed to power button on the front of the tower, it flashed orange, the computer still didn't turn on.

Darn.

I really, really appreciate all the suggestions here. You guys have been incredibly helpful, and the fact that my computer still refuses to turn on can probably be ascribed to the Computer Gods hating me and fucking with me every chance they get. Alas.

[Awsi Dooger]

59. Here's a YouTube video with a seemingly similar problem and the fix

As soon as you mentioned flashing orange light I thought either the computer was stuck in sleep mode, or perhaps a bad motherboard or power supply. But the major failures are not as likely as something relatively basic.

This guy took apart the case and checked the motherboard first via a beep test, then all he had to do was remove and restore the RAM and it started up fine. That's the type of thing I would attempt but if you haven't opened up a computer frequently or recently it's probably best to wait for the Geek Squad:

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

64. Not a flashing orange light.

It flashed orange one of the times I tried to turn it on. Otherwise it's as dead as a doornail, to invoke a cliche.

[Awsi Dooger]

68. Okay

I still think it might be something simple like stuck in sleep mode. I remember that happened to me in Las Vegas in 2004 when I changed a keyboard. The computers can be sensitive if the keyboard cable is removed when the computer is still running. It triggers sleep mode.

Also sometimes an old cable doesn't seat perfectly with a new keyboard, even if seemingly there's no reason it shouldn't. Several times I've had to revert to old keyboards.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

81. Ohh, it's not in sleep mode.

It's apparently in Hibernate Until 2630 mode.

And again, I'm using the exact same kind of keyboard that was the old one.

[Awsi Dooger]

122. The same keyboard doesn't mean anything

It can be absolutely identical but if the connection is disrupted while the computer was still running then the system is triggered to sleep and protect. And they won't necessarily wake up simply by pressing a key. I have had both desktops and laptops stuck in sleep mode until I took steps like removing the battery and removing the RAM. That's why I knew exactly where to look for that video, even though I have never used anything but Macs

Stuck in sleep mode would be the free solution. But as I mentioned in my first post it could also be the motherboard or power supply. In that case it would mean somehow the liquid got into the system itself. This almost has to be related to the keyboard problem. On such a new computer it makes zero sense that something major would go wrong simultaneously to a non-linked event.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

123. I thought that when it was in sleep mode,

just clicking the mouse or pressing a key wakes it up.

This really seems like it's turned off and simply refuses to turn back on. And yeah, that this should happen simultaneous to a new keyboard is weird.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

66. I am in awe of the wonderful and amazing advice and suggestions I have gotten here.

The fact that I so far have still not been able to solve my computer problem hardly matters. I've gotten wonderful support and I'm incredibly grateful to all of you.

[madamesilverspurs]

71. Oh, do I get where you're coming from!

We're the same age, and I learned to drive with a stick shift. My first car was a '64 GTO, but years later the experience transferred readily to my VW bug. It also worked when I borrowed my dad's old '69 pickup. I still know how to drive a stick, but my knees won't let me. I miss the days when I could go to a favorite gas station to have the attendant check under the hood.

Computers (and for that matter, cell phones and the new flat screen TVs) are a whole nother thing. I frequently have to ask for help, sometimes I have to ask "how to ask" since my tech vocabulary is non-existent. And the looks I get when I tell someone what's going on, like I'm from another planet. I've gotten used to explaining that I was born before the chips were routinely implanted. A friend's 9-year-old grandson has been helpful, just gets things moving with the understanding that he's allowed to roll his eyes at my apparent ignorance.

Wish I could offer some help on the computer stuff, but trust me, you don't want it. I still have an old desktop that has some of my work in it, and I did back up those files -- to floppy disks. And it has a monstrous "key" that affixes to the back of the tower that enables the software to operate. One of these days I need to fire it up just to see if it still works. I do like the pinball game on it.

Anyway, just some company for your misery. Hope you get it resolved soon!


.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

74. Thank you for that encouragement.

I truly appreciate it.

As I may have said above, I'm highly appreciative of all the young people in tech support of various kinds. I often ask for help from those wonderful young people, and I often say that I have never once noticed any of them rolling their eyes at me. I expect it helps that they all have parents and grandparents who need help and are simply very used to working with us.

[Boomerproud]

77. I'm 64 and I can relate to hating to ask questions.

I can't play DVDs on my flatscreen. As my BBF says "There's a 10 year old who could help you." Thanks smartass.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

82. Ohh, I have no trouble asking questions.

I do have a son who is reasonably tech savvy, but alas he lives on the other side of the country.

[caraher]

72. My daughter-in-law works at Google

This weekend she was telling about how she frequently agrees to help test out software other work groups come up with. And she often ends up completely befuddled about how to use it - which means she's a good person to do the testing! A lot of it is icons/buttons whose meaning one is supposed to divine based on shape and some implied conventions. For instance - and I've had trouble with this on phone apps - if I'm trying to record video, I might have a round red button or a square red button, and one means ready-to record while the other means that the phone is recording. But it's far from obvious what the convention should be - I tend to look for other signs (e.g. a timer counting up) to figure out what's happening. Those are the sorts of things she gets tripped up by.

The other thing that bugs me is the use of low-contrast graphics. My wife was waxing nostalgiac over the early Macs - because the displays were not color (at the pixel level your options were black and white) it was much easier for her to see what was going on and how to do things. Too often today we see interfaces appropriate for a phone on a computer, or vice-versa, and a lot of near-invisible controls because of graphic design choices made in the name of aesthetics.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

75. Interesting.

I'm trying to remember the name of the print magazine back in the 1990s that was about tech stuff. For a person over the age of 40 it was hard to read because they had all sorts of weird fonts and low contrast between the background and the type. It was obvious that very young people were putting that magazine together and had no clue that someone even just a decade and a half older might have a problem reading it.

As an aside, I'm remembering when I first realized I needed reading glasses. In the beginning, all I needed was stronger light. Then, after a while, that wasn't good enough. Duh! I needed reading glasses like so many of us over age 40.

Another aside. Cataracts were the very best thing that ever happened to my eyes. I was nearsighted from a very early age. In first grade I could barely see the blackboard. Wore glasses, then contact lenses, then bifocals. At age 63, which is on the young side, I had cataract surgery. OMFG! What an improvement. Now I can read small signs on distant hills, or it seems that way. Yes, I still need reading glasses but being freed from having to put contact lenses on is amazing. I long ago gave up on glasses because some time in the mid 1990s I purchased eye glasses that I couldn't see out of. It turned out the ophthalmologist forgot to put "slab off" on the prescription, which meant the glasses were useless. They cost me something in the neighborhood of $400. I really should have told him he needed to pay for the replacement glasses, but instead I simply did without glasses until I eventually had the cataract surgery. Well, before then I'd been using reading glasses, but not expensive prescription glasses.

[DonaldsRump]

76. They aren't

I have no formal training in tech/computers/computer science etc.

Solving a computer problem is generally not very difficult if you have access to the internet. Basically, everything that has gone wrong with your system has happened to someone else, and the fix is often times documented on the internet.

While I am have reading the very patient suggestions that folks here have made, what you haven't told folks that are trying to help is:

*What is the make and model of your system?
*What operating system are you using? (for example, Windows 10, Windows 7, Mac OS, etc?)
*What exactly happened? I have read that you spilled liquid on the keyboard. Ok, there again, what kind of keyboard? What is the make and model of the keyboard? How is the keyboard connected to your system?
*What do you mean by being concerned about your modem? How are you accessing DU/the internet right now? Do you have another system connected to wi-fi? If so, you should be easily able to find a fix online.

Now if you've spilled liquid, and it's gotten into the computer itself (as opposed to only a wired/wireless keyboard), that's a whole other kettle of fish, and you may just be out of luck. If you've spilled liquid on JUST a separate keyboard, getting a replacement keyboard should help.

Another observation: Operating a stick shift/manual transmission is not that difficult. It's also one aspect of operating a vehicle, and is fairly rudimentary. Fixing a manual transmission is fairly easy compared to an automatic transmission. And again, the transmission is one of many, many parts to a car. Having all of that working and being able to operate is more analogous to the issue at hand.

Today's computers are capable of enormous functions, so there's a reason why it CAN be complicated to fix. You make reference to using computers decades ago. I like to think of the DSKY system on the Apollo Project (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer_) that was used to land our astronauts on the moon. It was (in today's terms) a rudimentary system, but at that time, it did the job to get our folks on the moon and back. Today's systems are massively more sophisticated than DSKY.

However, with just the information in the list above, you should be able to remedy most any issue so long as liquid itself has not touched the "innards" of your system.

As for the Geek Squad, I dealt with them in January when we bought smart thermostats for our house. They came, made a big deal about how complicated the situation was, how they could not touch HVAC systems etc, and then cancelled the installation. I then called an HVAC company that installed the two thermostats in about 20 minutes total, where they noted there was nothing complicated at all about installing the thermostats. They were also significantly cheaper than the Geek Squad. Also, I took a Windows 10 laptop to a computer repair center, where they told me that the ribbon cable that connected my touchpad to the motherboard was defective, but no one made the cable anymore. I was able to track the part down to a provider in France, and had the piece in a week.

My point is that information is power. If you have access to the internet, you have the power to solve MANY issues by yourself. If, however, liquid has gotten into other parts of your system besides a detachable/wireless keyboard, you might have a real problem that may be too costly to fix.

Folks on DU, as you know, are extremely willing to help, as am I. So, if you could give a little more info, perhaps we can work together to solve the issue. Otherwise, there's always the Geek Squad, but they will do the same as you can do right now: Google it to find the solution.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

78. All I know is that the computer turned itself off and is completely unwilling to turn back on.

I've checked all the cords, Even plugged and unplugged various ones. If you read back through this thread and figure out something I've left out, let me know. Can't even begin to imagine what else needs to be said.

I sort of doubt a Google would help: "My computer turned itself off and won't turn back on again" will give me anything helpful.

I honestly think I need someone better at computer stuff than I am to come to my house, look at the computer, and tell me what's needed. Or better yet, just do it.

The liquid that got into the system was into the keyboard only. I simply did without a keyboard for nearly two weeks, just using the mouse. I did do various work-arounds which I'm actually pretty good at. And I'm extremely confident that the liquids didn't get into anything else, as the problem I've been talking about here arose when I tried to plug in the new whatever it is, that little tiny connection thing, into the tower so I could use the new keyboard. Kazaam! All of a sudden the computer turned itself off. It took about fifteen or twenty minutes of reboots for the modem to come back on line, but the laptop itself has apparently decided that until it can reincarnate into a new system, it is dead to me.

Sigh.

[DonaldsRump]

80. That's good news

If the liquid only got into a separate/detachable keyboard, any issue you now have should only be a software issue.

From my previous posts, could you quickly answer these questions?:

*What is the make and model of your system?
*What operating system are you using? (for example, Windows 10, Windows 7, Mac OS, etc?)
*What exactly happened? I have read that you spilled liquid on the keyboard. Ok, there again, what kind of keyboard? What is the make and model of the keyboard? How is the keyboard connected to your system?
*What do you mean by being concerned about your modem? How are you accessing DU/the internet right now? Do you have another system connected to wi-fi? If so, you should be easily able to find a fix online.

By chance, is the keyboard a Logitech?

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

83. A few answers.

I was originally very concerned with my modem because it took a very long time to reboot so that I could get back on the internet. It's clear to me that the modem is no longer a problem.

The keyboard in question is a Logitech K360. A fairly basic and inexpensive keyboard. It's connected to my system with that little plug in thingy. I spilled wine on one a couple of weeks ago, and I'll confess this is not the first time I've done that. In the past, getting a replacement keyboard has been very straightforward. I get the new one, plug in that little device, and I'm good to go. This evening, trying to make that swap made everything go haywire. As I've said earlier in this thread, the modem went down and took a surprisingly long time to come up to full speed.

Clearly I am now on the internet. I'm accessing it through my laptop, because I have wifi in my little home. Lucky me. When I first moved here some twelve years ago now, my son, currently My Son The Astronomer, helped me get what I needed to be on the internet. At the time I was renting, then moved about a half mile away to my current home. Fortunately, I hired a computer professional to make the change from one location to another, because my son could not have begun to do this. The computer professional needed to call my internet provider and was able to get an otherwise inactive phone jack working so that I could have both phone and internet service. I honestly only have a very sketchy understanding of what transpired. I can say this: the small (900 square feet) home I bought had two phone jacks, but one of them had never been turned on. As I said, the computer professional knew what to say to the phone company to get that second one turned on. Otherwise I'd have been completely screwed.

The problem is that the desktop computer is turned off and stubbornly won't turn on.

[DonaldsRump]

92. Sorry, PoindexterOglethorpe, went to sleep!

Last edited Mon Aug 17, 2020, 03:43 PM - Edit history (2)

Anyways, try this:

* can you flip your new keyboard and take out the battery?

*can you unplug the nano-receiver on the computer (this is the "dongle" ) that's plugged into the computer's USB port?

*Once you do that, try restarting the computer.

IF (and it's a BIG IF, I admit) it works, put the batteries back into the keyboard and make sure it's turned on, and then re-plug the dongle into another USB port on your computer. It might be a bad USB port etc.

Edited to add: Please also check some other basic things:

*Are you sure the monitor is on? Trust me: I've had computers since I was a kid in the 1970s, and, even now, I still sometimes can't tell if a computer is on or off because I'm not getting a visual cue from the monitor.

*Can you hear any sound at all coming from your computer? If it is on, often times you will hearing the whirring of the fan.

*Check the outlet. Is it getting power? If not, go to your breaker box to see if something tripped.

* I still don't understand the issue with the modem. What is the relevancy of the modem being on? What kind of internet service do you have? Cable? ADSL? Satellite? Dial-up?

*You said your computer is new. Have you called the manufacturer for help?

*Worst case, you can also try Logitech.

* Like you have been saying, maybe the easiest thing is to wait for the Geek Squad!

If your computer has a hardware issue, I would think it's related to spilling the liquid, as it seems too coincidental that something on your computer died at the same time you spilled the wine. However, you seem very clear that no liquid got into the computer itself or one of the ports. If that's the case, your issue is almost assuredly a software issue that should be relatively easy to fix, which is good news. However, I've done the liquid damage things to laptops, and it's often caused huge issues beyond the keyboard, where it's easier and cheaper just to get a new system. Of course, that's the case with a laptop, where a keyboard is integrated into the system. So, hopefully, this doesn't apply to you.

[beachbumbob]

84. computers not the problem, its the operating system and why I dumped MS and went to linux

with mint running on my computer. Zero issues

[obamanut2012]

85. They aren't at all difficult to operate

And, it is really a tad silly to think they shouldn't be more complex than a toaster. Come on.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

86. I realize I am being silly.

But as someone who drives a stick shift in a world of automatic transmissions, I honestly think computers could be a lot easier to deal with. And again, I'm speaking of someone who first starting using computers a bit more than fifty years ago. Long before windows or its equivalent. In fact, I was highly resistant to windows and only succumbed to it when it was clear there was no other choice. I was very comfortable with a command line. Which again is why I can get so frustrated and angry as I am at my current problem, a computer that turned itself off and simply won't respond.

Think of it this way. What if one day you go out to start your car and it won't start. The battery is fine. You have gas. The alternator is good. So why the fuck won't it start?? That's precisely what I'm dealing with. The computer was just fine until I tried to swap out the keyboard. It's kind of like you go to put gas in your car and all of a sudden it won't go. Huh? We would not tolerate cars that abruptly and for no reason stop working. Why is it we're expected to take that as normal with computers? Really?

[Mosby]

96. Not really

I have said the same thing multiple times myself, after all these years, computers should not be this difficult, and I say this as someone who has taken a lot of time to educate myself and bought my first desktop system in 1990.

I can usually figure out hardware issues, but when its the software it gets really complicated. Why at this point should I even have to know what "build" version my system is running and why would I have to "roll it back"?

[honest.abe]

87. If your "stick shift" car wouldn't start would you be able to fix it yourself?

Computers are complex machines with many working parts which can fail at any time just like a car.

[muriel_volestrangler]

89. Your problem is not that it's difficult to operate. Your problem is that it has gone wrong.

Your computer is a complex bit of machinery and software, able to do vastly more things than the 1969 computer you worked on. And that 1969 computer had engineers who would be called out to replace bits of it when they went wrong. You wouldn't have had the faintest idea what had gone wrong then, and you don't now.

[MineralMan]

93. The reality is that today's computers are far easier to operate

than those that came before. However, internally, they are incredibly complex systems. If your computer won't even power up, then it has a serious problem internally. Have it looked at by a technician, who will probably be able to return it to service quickly, after some minimal diagnostic work.

In the 80s, when PCs were something new, a person had to learn something about them to be able to use them. Since then, they have become more and more easy to use and people don't have to learn much at all. You turn them on and they work. Unless they don't. Then, you get them looked at by a technician or purchase a new one.

In that, they are like most of our modern devices, from cars, air conditioners, TVs, and pretty much everything else. They work without us knowing much about them. Until they don't. Then, we are forced to take them to someone who knows a lot about them, or we just get a new one.

Yesterday, the window AC unit in my wife's office (the spare bedroom) began dripping water inside the house. I removed the front panel of the 5-year-old unit, and could see that it was clogged with dust and debris, which blocked whatever pathways the water had to get to the rear of the box it is in.

Now, i could have removed it from the window, taken it outside and cleaned it thoroughly, then reinstalled it. I know about window air conditioners, and could have done that in about half an hour. But, I didn't. Instead, I drove to the nearest Menards hardware store, grabbed a new 5000 BTU window AC for $129, returned home and had the new one installed in the window in less than an hour from when she told me it was dripping.

It was five years old. It was done. In the same time it would have taken me to clear the water drainage channels, I replaced it with a new one, which will provide good service for several year. The old one would not have done that, and would have failed before long.

Your computer can be repaired by someone who knows what to do. However, if that repair will cost too much, you can replace it with a new model that will give you trouble-free service for years to come. Your choice. If you don't know how to repair computers, those are your two options.

In any case, a current computer is far, far easier to use than the early PCs. That is simply a fact.

[Mosby]

97. Ac units last a lot longer than 5 years

you basically threw away a perfectly good unit.

Yes, coils need to be cleaned, and the condensation tube as well.

Is America turning into a throw away society?

Seems that way.

[MineralMan]

98. Some do. Typically, though, the cheapest 5000 BTU ones don't.

That is based on my experience with such inexpensive units. Assembled somewhere in Asia, they are not designed to be cleaned nor disassembled.

When I look at such things, I also consider the value of my time. I'm still working for a living. At home in my own office, as I have done since 1974. An hour of my time is worth approximately what that new AC unit cost. Truly, I saved considerable time by simply pushing the old one out the window and installing a new one. Cleaning the old one properly would have taken far longer. You weren't there. You didn't see it. To have cleaned it properly would have required disassembly, which those machines make very difficult without damaging the refrigerant connections. Truly, they are not made to be disassembled for cleaning.

So, I weighed my time against the cost of a new replacement unit. I decided to replace the old one.

Do you want my old one? It will be on the curb in front of my house for the next scrapper who happens by. If you hurry, you can grab it, clean it, and install it in your own window.

You do you. I'll do me.

[DonaldsRump]

109. Mineral Man, you are one of my DU heroes!

You sure don't pull any punches, and I love folks who are direct.

Speaking of ACs, we live in the Bay Area, which is having a heat wave. For some reason, our home has two furnaces, but no AC. Since the furnaces are getting up there in age, I'm thinking to replace the two furnaces with a single heating/AC unit. I'm having the HVAC company come next month to do annual maintenance on the furnaces and give me estimates on (a) replacing both furnaces; and (b) removing one furnace and going with a single heating/air unit. Having two furnaces seems excessive to me (our house is not that big).

Somehow, I think our days are going to be getting warmer rather than cooler, so we might us well consider central AC.

Anyways, I'll leave you with favorite two words to a genuine DU legend: . . !

[MineralMan]

112. Well, installing an AC system at the same time as

you install a new furnace can save you some money, for sure. There are almost always combo deals available from HVAC companies when you do that. However, prepare yourself for a shocking total cost. I don't know what your house is like, but replacing a furnace and installing central AC could run in the mid to high four figures. Also, if you have two furnaces, replacing them with just one could require some additional duct work, which will increase the cost.

You could catch a break from your power company, though, if you install high efficency units. Get two or three estimates from trustworthy HVAC companies, and consider brands you haven't seen ads for. That could also save you some money.

[DonaldsRump]

113. Many thanks! Sage advice

My daughter is starting online class in high school today, and we discussed the white noise from fans. I looked into getting a fan/heater combo, and saw the Dyson ones which are unbelievably expensive.

Then I started looking at portable ACs with a heater/fan function. Instead of getting central AC, the other thing I'm thinking about is getting one of these if it becomes too costly.

Much appreciation for the guidance. Right now, we're not in a rush, so I want to think about this carefully.

[MineralMan]

114. It's always a good idea to take your time, if you can,

and consider all of your options. Here in Minnesota, a functional furnace is an absolute necessity. We had to replace ours about three years ago, in the middle of winter. Fortunately, I've worked on an HVAC company's website for several years, so I got a very good deal on the whole replacement. It still cost about $3000, though. Our summers aren't too terrible, so we save money by using window AC units and only run them when we're using a room. We have three. One in the living room, and two smaller ones in our bedroom and my wife's office. My office is in the basement, so it's naturally cool down there.

[Happy Hoosier]

100. Ummm... computers ARE incredibly complex....

There are lots of parts to them that make them do what they do. And that's before you get to the OS (the operating systems... the software that let's you interact with the hardware).

If you computer turned off and won't come back on, it's probably a hardware failure of some kind.

[Oneironaut]

101. Sounds like a dead power supply, granted you checked that it's plugged in correctly.

If there is no life when you press the button, usually it’s the power supply (which gives power to all of the chips in the computer) that kicked the bucket.

That, or a cooked motherboard. It’s usually the power supply, though.

Geek Squad will probably replace it.

[Happy Hoosier]

104. Or a dead MB.

I had similar systems and swore it was the PS. But it turned out that a controller chip had failed.

Could also be a dead CPU, but those are very rare if people aren't goofing with them.

[Oneironaut]

106. Yup - That's true!

I’ve been building gaming PCs for almost a decade, and haven’t had a dead CPU yet. I did have a PSU that crapped out, though. It was almost the same thing as the OP, but mine would flicker for a moment and then turn off.

Other than that, most of my woes have been from video cards.

[steve2470]

105. I have been using computers for 27 years...

I am sure there are many who have using them far longer than I.

My point... yes, at first, they were "stupidly difficult to operate". I have had problems, usually with software, at times with hardware, over the years. At this point, I can fix pretty much any software problem. Hardware ? If it's relatively easy, then yes, I can.

If it involves a bad motherboard (also called mainboard or system board), then no, I find replacing motherboards a huge hassle, to me. If it's just bad memory, that's easy. A bad graphics card, also easy. A bad keyboard or mouse, also easy. I've never had a CPU go bad, but if it did, that would also be a big hassle to me.

So, replacing a bad CPU or motherboard would be a big hassle. A bad power supply, not hard.

The problem is with the diagnosis. I am not highly skilled at hardware diagnosis, so I would have to take it to the shop, unless the problem is very easy to diagnose.

Cars ? Forget it. Unless it's a stupidly easy thing like replacing a wiper blade, I am hopeless. Off to the shop it goes. Of course, I could train myself to fix most things with the right knowledge and equipment.

My advice to you ? A bit more education about computers. I highly recommend this site: https://www.bleepingcomputer.com/tutorials/

I am the host of Computer Help and Support sub-group, and you are always welcome there to ask any questions No question is " too dumb". We are nice to newbies.

[hunter]

108. An inexpensive Chromebook is the computer I use the most.

I'm on my second Chromebook. One of our high-energy dogs broke my first. I didn't lose anything because I save all my work to an SD card. I set up the new Chromebook, transferred the SD card from the broken computer to the new computer, and everything just worked.

I hated babysitting expensive Windows laptops when I traveled. I haven't touched my own Windows 10 laptop since March.

My desktop computer runs Linux. Other than a new hard drive this machine is entirely recycled. Mostly I use it for editing photos and writing code. I've only had one problem with this machine since I first built it. A faulty power supply was causing all sorts of weird problems which is probably why it was dumped. I replaced the power supply and haven't had any trouble since.

I've been a computer nerd my entire life. As a child I started building computers from old telephone relays. I first signed onto the internet in the later 'seventies and never left. I pretty much lived in university computer labs for nine years.

My favorite computer of all times was the Atari 800. I've kept all my old Atari hardware but I don't take it out much because 99% of my old Atari stuff runs perfectly well on my desktop machine.

Most of the computers I've ever used are emulated on my Linux desktop. I've got files going back to the 'seventies.

I don't like what modern computing has become. I like to keep things simple. I've been burned by file formats and software that's been abandoned.

On the Atari I used Atariwriter and then Paperclip as my word processor. (Orson Scott Card was then writing on an Atari as well...) For my university work I used vi. Those files are still accessible to me from my desktop. I have little scripts that will convert these files to modern formats.

These days I write almost everything in markdown. I convert markdown to other document formats as needed. Markdown works on most computers past or present. It would work on an Apple II or TRS-80.

The text editor I use on my Chromebook is Mado. It's in the web store. There are also versions for Windows and Linux. My sister-in-law, who is a Chromebook enthusiast, uses google documents for everything. It's mostly compatible with Microsoft Office documents. On my Linux Desktop I have Libre Office installed but mostly I use it for documents other people have sent me.

[DonaldsRump]

110. Oh wow! I LOVE THE ATARI 800

I learned assembly language programming and began to understand machine language on my Atari 800. I had an Atari 800, the tape player, the disk drive, the 300 baud modem, the letter quality printer that took 5-10 minutes to print a page (!). It got me through college, until I finally got a Mac for grad school. I have never had any courses or training on computers. It was learning how to do things on my wonderful Atari 800 that taught me so many basic technical skills that I still use today.

My favorite games were Star Raiders, Missile Command, and Shamus.

I haven't told my wife, but I got another Atari 800 off of ebay! I haven't set it up yet, but one fine day...

I also love my Chromebook, and indeed I'm using it now. I find it great for surfing the internet and doing relatively simple things.

Glad to meet another like-minded soul!

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

127. You are someone with vastly greater computer skills

than I will ever have.

My very first computer's word processing thing was something called LWorks. I loved it it. No fancy fonts or scalable fonts, but it had a couple of features I've never had since and I still miss.

For a while I had Libre Office when a hard drive meltdown destroyed my Microsoft office on that machine. There were small differences between that and Microsoft which tended to trip me up, especially when it came to keyboard commands, which I'm very fond of. I don't like taking my fingers off the keyboard.

Oh, well.

[hunter]

130. My blast-it-out-and-edit-later (or not...) writing style works for all text editors.

Even those that don't require or recognize a mouse.

I used to stumble around my Chromebook mouse pad but I'm fairly good at it now. I know all the one finger, two finger, tapping and sliding tricks. I don't like touch screens at all; not on my phones, and especially not on my computers.

Simple keyboard shortcuts for opening and saving files, or moving the cursor around the screen line by line or word by word keep my fingers on the keyboard.

My fumble fingers hate any shortcuts that can do major damage even when there is a sophisticated "undo" function. I've been lost in undone hells.

For several years Abiword was my favorite Windows word processor. That was back in when I first logged onto DU and was using a highly modified version of Windows 98SE and the Opera Web browser; before I switched entirely to Linux. I hadn't yet abandoned complex word processors.

I couldn't find anything about LWorks using duck-duck-go. Do you mean Lotus Word Pro? That had a lot of keyboard shortcuts. I remember my sister used it on her OS/2 laptop. In the late 'eighties and early 'nineties traveling around with a corporate laptop and cell phone was still a novelty and made you look very important.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_word_processors

Whenever I revisit Paperclip on my Atari 800 emulator I'm always a little surprised by what it can't do. I wrote millions of words on that simple machine. My wife wrote her application essay for grad school on it. When she was accepted to grad school it turned our lives entirely upside down, in a good way.

[Silent3]

118. Oh, but it really is hard to get it right.

That's not to say that more effort shouldn't be put it quality control so that things stay easy-to-use and stable for non-technical users, but it's a seriously difficult thing to get right.

The complexity behind the scenes that makes your computer do what it does is frightening. And even your typical software engineer isn't fully aware of all of that complexity. Between merely pressing a letter on your keyboard, and seeing that letter appearing on your screen, an enormous number of operations happen -- tens of thousands at the very least, if not hundreds of thousands or millions.

Think of a person making you a salad in a restaurant. They can make you a good salad without knowing a thing about the supply chain logistics behind the assortment of ingredients, the agriculture requirements for producing each ingredient, the relevant FDA regulations, etc.

In a way, most software engineers are the same. They focus on their particular specialties, and simply have to hope all the other parts that other people have to do have been done correctly.

Unlike making a salad, however, a great deal of the complexity of making software function happens over and over again right there inside your computer, instead of simply having to be done correctly once before the software got to you. And there's a fundamental "brittleness" to software, and the way different software subsystems interact, which can be reduced, but not entirely eliminated.

I'm actually more amazed that our computers work as well as the do, and aren't completely falling apart all of the time.

[GeorgiaPeanut]

119. If it doesn't beep, your power supply is shot.

If it beeps, count the number and pattern of beeps and that tells why it would not boot.

https://kb.iu.edu/d/afzy

[brooklynite]

120. If the purpose of this was to vent, please proceed...

...otherwise, it would be helpful to know what KIND of computer and how old it and whether this has been a recurring problem.

[Initech]

121. I've been building my own PCs since the late 90s.

I won't buy a PC off the shelf anymore and they're actually getting easier to build and operate this way. Right now I'm running a rig with AMD's Ryzen 3900X CPU, 32GB of RAM, an RTX 2070, and 3TB of M2 storage space. And it's been great so far. Most of the rigs I build usually last me 5 years or more.

Most recently I was running an Intel X79 rig that I built back in 2014 that lasted me until I upgraded to a Ryzen 2600 last year and I expect my current rig to last me at least as long.

[DonaldsRump]

125. Yay!!! I am so happy that you got it to work

Please carefully scroll through the many great ideas on this thread. Especially when you have a back-up system, solving PC issues is kinda' fun, at least for me. Most of the time, you can easily source the parts online (eBay is great for PC innards).

Most importantly, glad it's working again! I didn't think it was a hardware issue, so I'm glad. Try to troubleshoot it so that you don't face the problem again. For example, maybe you need a new power cord, which you can EASILY get on eBay for a few dollars.

[DonaldsRump]

126. Oh, also get a can of compressed air

It's incredible what a shot of compressed air can clean out, in computers or just about anything. I use so many cans of compressed air, I wound up getting a blower so that I don't need to keep buying cans or wasting metal cans etc. It's much more powerful.

Compressed air is VERY good for computers!

[Yeehah]

128. It's hard as hell to find a manual transmission these days

I refuse to buy an automatic unless it's my absolute last choice. I pull trailers and drive in snow a lot, so I like that extra amount of control.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

129. Depending on what makes of cars you prefer.

I've been driving Hondas for the past two decades. Current car is a 2017 Honda Fit, stick shift and I love it. It replaced a 2004 Civic.

While I don't pull trailers, I am sometimes driving in the snow, and you have significantly more control with a standard transmission.