Police Reform: Purge the police instead of defund

[RussBLib]

Words matter. The phrase "Defund the police" has been intentionally misinterpreted, as many expected.

Perhaps a better phrase could be "Purge the police". I'm sure the vast majority of the US does not want to eliminate all police. We want to be able to TRUST the police to have public safety at the forefront, to not wantonly kill black people too many of them hate.

We must purge the police of the racists and white supremacists in their ranks. I'm not sure how we do it, but it should be possible. It will take time.

Just a thought.

[Proud liberal 80]

1. Purge and

Reinstate residency requirements

[JHB]

2. "The 'bad apple' ejection system is broken...

'One bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch' is just a song of a guy trying to sweet-talk a girl.
The real old saying is that 'just one' does spoil the bunch, and it's true.

The one bad one makes the others go bad faster, and it means that nobody can trust the whole bunch to be good apples."

And that's even before getting into how many places never had an ejection system at all, or where "bad" was a plus, and got back-up and promotions.

[Blue_true]

4. There are police chiefs and sheriffs across the country that are running departments

that are fair. I am Black. Once I was in a city and in a hurry to make a meeting, I was late. A cop pulled me over for speeding, he gave me a $50 ticket and explained the procedure for contesting it if I chose to. I was going 15mph over the posted speed, but felt in control of the vehicle and traffic was non-existent. When I reached the meeting, steamed about the ticket, I asked about the procedures that cops used. I was told that if you get caught speeding by 5mph over the posted speed, you got a ticket in that city, it would not matter if you were a smashingly beautiful Miss America, you got a ticket. A couple of White business associates at the meeting recounted being ticketed in that city for speeding. The kicker is that above 5mph over the limit, a person got an extra $100 added onto the ticket for every 10mph beyond the 5mph over, so the cop could have handed me a $150 ticket. I talked more to local people and found that department had a uniform code on violations, it didn’t matter who you were.

What Joe should do is bring in Chiefs and Sheriff that run departments that operate to documented high standards and have a round-table getting advice for those people on the best way to reform problematic police agencies.

[RussBLib]

6. Good idea

Joe needs to be proactive on this. I hope he will.

I also hope he addresses the Rand Paul incident.

[JHB]

7. Ok, but I don't see anything in what you've laid out that involves...

...incidents of police abuse being dismissed as "one bad apple don't spoil the whole bunch."

And there are some police departments, perhaps plenty of them, where the "bad apples" have the full support of the system.

[Blue_true]

11. So use the experience and suggestions from departments that don't

have a statically measurable problem with ethnic profiling, questionable shootings, bad arrests. There are statistics available on all those categories.

It is easy enough to use catch phrases and go out blindly swinging an axe at a problem, but long term that problem only gets solved by using advice from people that have saw it and dealt with it properly.

[JHB]

14. Can you clarify who you think is using "catch phrases" to "go out blindly swinging an axe"?

[Blue_true]

15. "Bad apples".

Those people were present in working departments at one time, that is almost certain. They were forced out or their behavior on the job was reformed. We should try to understand how effective Police Chiefs and Sheriff accomplished those things instead of accepting the “bad apple” problem as unsolvable.

What we are seeing in real time is that the police chief and sheriff in Kenosha city and it’s county either are tone deaf on racial issues or they are outright hostile to Black people. So it should come as no surprise that a cop under one of them would shoot an unarmed man in the back 7 times and all officials try to do is parade the injured man’s record and insinuate that he had a knife, when video doesn’t show him holding anything in his hands.

[JHB]

20. I'm not sure what perspective you're viewing this from...

...but mine comes from observing decades-long behavior in some of the largest police forces in the country. They are very protective of their prerogatives, which includes violent abusive action. Rudolph Giuliani practically launched his mayoral campaign during a riot by off-duty police officers protesting a civilian complaint review board.

Abuses by officers in such departments have routinely been dismissed by the "easy enough to use catch phrase" of "bad apples", thus my original comments regarding the "bad apple ejection system is broken" or nonexistent. Because it never gets fixed.

If you think making concrete changes in present police culture won't be a knock-down, drag-out, blood-on-the-mat fight, at least please refrain from bandying terms like "easy enough to use...." It does not come from an easy place, and there is no easy solution.

[RockRaven]

3. I think it is a better slogan, but people who use motivated reasoning will still freak out

no matter what slogan is used because their objection isn't about what they claim it is about.

Short (3 words, 4 syllables), alliteration (generally catchy), easily expanded for clarity by adding more words (purge the police of corrupt cops, purge the police of killer cops, purge the police of white supremacists)

But for a bunch of voters, there is almost no way to suggest changing the police that won't freak them out. The only question (which I don't know the answer to) is are those voters all a lost cause anyway, or can we get some of them calmed down and on board with the right slogan/presentation -- let's be honest with ourselves, the nitty-gritty policy details generally don't move the needle as much as people's emotional reactions.

[RussBLib]

19. Black people have been vilified for so long

by white people, and politicians, that a lot of white people are scared to death of black people.

Somehow policing in America has gone seriously off the rails, but the future is not set. We can reform, but more people need to get over their racist past.

[unitedwethrive]

5. Decriminalize the Police

Says it all.

[gulliver]

8. Just defund the Drug War and everything will happen naturally.

There will be fewer cops, so the budgets can be lower and the departments can be pickier about who they let in. The Drug War is the gravy train for the majority of the corrupt, destructive parts of the criminal justice system, from bad policing, to paper pushing and plea bargaining prosecutors, to mass incarceration.

[RussBLib]

13. The land of the free

And home of the brave just does not ring true in so many ways any longer.

We're too afraid our cities will be overrun with drugs, and people will quit their jobs to do drugs, yadda yadda yadda. We have little national will.

[LiberalFighter]

9. There needs to be strict requirements.

At least two years training before being accepted.
Annual training after being accepted.
No obscene, racial, or extensive tattoos.
Personality and/or other testing.

Officers involved in a shooting must submit to questioning within 24 hours.
A civilian review board for disciplinary action.
No holiday or personal pay when disciplined. When put on administrative leave they lose their pay when ruled against.

National standards created that all law enforcement departments must adhere to and must meet those standards to qualify for federal financing.

Ban teargassing, other chemical agents, rubber bullets.
Ban military style vehicles, weapons, and clothing.

[RussBLib]

12. Qualified immunity has to go

And how about, if you turn off your body cam, you are FIRED.

[alwaysinasnit]

16. +1000

[LiberalFighter]

17. Absolutely for both.

[randr]

10. Disinfect them

Remove the pustulant racism like you would a giant blackhead

[Xolodno]

18. How about, having a real police force and not jokes who get their jollies holding a gun.

1. Increase the training time...and I don't mean physical, driving, etc. but a shit load more of law, mental illness, negotiation, sensitivity, etc.

2. Reclassify all the police. Those just showing up to take a report, only arm them with pepper spray and tazers. They don't need guns.

3. Those that can have guns, respond only to called in violent events. Nothing else...and even then, their training should be focused on take down with minimal force before using deadly force.

4. Cams on, all the time.

5. More legal liability against the police force. We went through a period where it was dramatized that anyone can claim "police brutality" and sue the shit out them. Only problem was, it wasn't true....and they were being brutalized. Result, immunize them.

6. Dis-incentive shoving people into jail for any reason. Having a prisoner, gives them more reason for more budget. But if the DA drops the case like a bad habit, have it take a hit against the police budget for incarceration...and a black mark for the officer. Oh and pay for the bail of the innocent, lost wages, cost of transportation home, lawyer fee's, etc. Do that, the police won't arrest, harass, etc. anyone unless they know they are in the clear.

7. Gun control. Even good cops are scared, because some nutcase could have a deadly weapon. And no thanks to the NRA, has made their jobs much more dangerous.

8. Paid for community involvement. Have them go to community meetings, events, parks, etc. So they can learn what the community is actually facing. So they can work hand in hand and concentrate on those problems....everything from some idiot blowing off illegal fireworks at midnight to a growing gang presence.

9. Reform the police unions. A number have one goal, protect everyone on the force....bad apple or not. Instead, put them in a managerial role that protects the integrity, allows other officers anonymously to report bad apples and decide which employee's should be protected and be proactive in sending a referral to HR.

10. Pay them decently. Instead of having a constant hiring stream which dilutes everyone's pay, have a hard stop. If you need more officers to police the city, then your failing.

[BGBD]

21. Make it a lot harder to become a cop.

Require a minimum of a four year degree, an additional 3 years of work experience, and a minimum age of 25.

Make them spend their first six months to a year riding with an experience officer and not carrying a gun.

Have constant screenings of social media and a 0 tolerance policy for racist or supremacist ideologies being shown.

[RussBLib]

22. indeed

good ideas. They definitely need more training than they get now.

As someone else mentioned, getting past the police unions will be a hurdle, but it is also doable. If they were created, they can be altered. It would take some real leadership.