We can easily defeat covid-19 without a vaccine. Easily.

[Yavin4]

The virus cannot live unless it's in a human host. It doesn't live on counter tops. It doesn't live in fresh air. It's not on the floors, etc. It needs a human host, and by denying it such hosts, it dies. It goes away.

Thus, the path to defeating the virus is through managing social behavior:

- Lockdowns
- Social distancing
- Wearing masks outside of your homes
- Washing your hands
- Provide people with economic assistance so that they don't have to work
- Pay essential workers bonuses

- And most importantly, massive testing. Tests to see that the virus is suppressed to a certain level. Once it reaches that level, then open things up slowly. If there are outbreaks, close it back down again. Contact trace and suppress the spread.

Do this for certain amount of time, and the virus will disappear eventually on its own.

What proof do I have? See NY state. We had it worse than any other state in March and April. By following the steps above, our positivity rate has gone down to 1% as our testing has increased. IOW, it's become manageable. Soon, it may be gone entirely.

Other countries have done the same. See Canada for example. They've been able to suppress the virus. Soon, it will be gone entirely from that nation.

But in the U.S., the needs of our corporate overlords always come first and foremost. If we can't put them on hold for a few months, then we're done as a nation.

What if another nation was posed to invade us and it was in the interest of our corporate overlords to allow them to occupy us. Our stock market would triple in value if this nation occupied us and strip us of all of our rights. Would we lay down our defenses?

[DBoon]

1. Also look at European countries that have controlled Covid

No vaccine, just leadership and cooperation

Amazing what people can do when they work together

[LuckyCharms]

2. I agree. n/t

[SWBTATTReg]

3. Until we know for sure that the multiple vaccines being developed will work on the CV, we ...

really have no choice but to, as you say very well in your article, defeat the CV w/o a vaccine. Very good summary / analysis of what it is going to take to defeat this virus.

One other thing, that I think will be important, is that severe penalties must be imposed should people fail to wear masks/fail to socially distance themselves/fail to take appropriate measures to prevent the continuing spread of the CV, otherwise, the loudmouths and ignorant a&&holes that feel like their rights are being trampled on will continue to spread the CV, and we'll start up this whole nightmare again.

I know that some feel like their rights are being trampled on, but I never hear the other side of the coin, what about the rights of everyone surrounding these idiots refusing to wear masks etc., who do wear masks, who do socially distance themselves, etc.?

I think that we'll see parts of this 'virus suppression plan' you've outlined so well here, implemented in bits and pieces throughout the USA, but until we get a national plan, and get everyone working together as one, this won't succeed 100% and the outbreaks will continue. With trump in the picture, an implementation of any plan to defeat this virus will NEVER HAPPEN. trump wants death to visit the USA simply to support, in his fevered mind, his election efforts. A disgusting human being that I truly hope gets sick and die, and suffer as so many have / are today in the USA. The republican party has a lot to answer for too. When the unneeded deaths of so many Americans is part of one's election plan (all of the CV deaths are happening in "'blue' cities, so ignore!&quot , murder charges need to be filed against everyone of these a&&holes and pursued to the ends of the Earth.

[brush]

6. Australia began levying $200 fines for not wearing a mask...

because of a recent flare up of the virus. And the nation has been one of the best countries in controlling the virus so they are a good example of how to handle covid infections.

[lostnfound]

4. It's possible that this will be the ONLY way to stop it. Reinfections mean..

That getting it once doesn’t make you protected from the next one. There have been a few documented reinfections recently, including one person whose second case was worse than the first. An effective vaccine is possible but definitely not certain.

[global1]

5. Essentially - Starve The Virus......nt

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

7. While all of those things make a huge difference,

the fact that people can be asymptomatic and still spread the virus remains a huge problem. And a lot of places that had pretty much contained it are having renewed outbreaks.

This is not going to go away soon or easily. Perhaps if every single person on the planet could remain in isolation for 30 days, it would completely die out. But of course it's simply not possible for every single person to remain in isolation.

I do wish people would understand that it does not live on surfaces, and wiping down everything they touch or that comes into the house is actually pretty silly.

[Merlot]

8. Unfortunately there was so much mis information spread in the beginning

that people are not clear on the issues regarding surfaces and would rather be safe than sorry.

[phylny]

10. I was under the impression it can live on surfaces. Am I misinformed?

"The coronavirus that causes COVID-19 mainly spreads from person to person. When someone who is infected coughs or sneezes, they send droplets containing the virus into the air. A healthy person can then breathe in those droplets. You may also catch the virus if you touch a surface or object that has the virus on it and then touch your mouth, nose, or eyes."

https://www.webmd.com/lung/how-long-covid-19-lives-on-surfaces

"...this coronavirus is known to survive on hard surfaces for only up to three days."

and

"The new coronavirus can live for up to 72 hours on stainless steel and plastic, up to 24 hours after landing on cardboard, and up to four hours after landing on copper, according to a study funded by the US National Institutes of Health."

https://www.cnn.com/interactive/2020/health/coronavirus-questions-answers/?fbclid=IwAR0mg7y0b0KoJRFpF4Q3LLhpayGHtxPVTmEl5VqtvWabAjPH9EiPpVEnEro

"A new study posted on BioRxiv found that SARS-CoV-2, the virus responsible for Covid-19, can survive on frozen meat and fish for periods up to 3 weeks, as researchers continue to explore the possibility that contaminated food could be the source of new outbreaks in countries which had previously controlled the virus.

"The study, which has not yet been peer reviewed, noted the presence of infectious (live) virus, not just genetic material, on meat which was previously refrigerated and frozen for up to 3 weeks—and later thawed. This study comes on the heels of another recent report from Shenzen, China which found SARS- CoV-2 genetic material, not live virus capable of replication, on the surface of frozen chicken wings, a story recently covered by fellow Forbes contributor, Bruce Lee."

https://www.forbes.com/sites/robertglatter/2020/08/23/covid-19-coronavirus-can-survive-on-frozen-meat-and-fish-for-up-to-3-weeks-study-finds/#69e518b88877

[DFW]

12. Here in Germany, at every supermarket

They have paid employees to rub down the shopping carts with disinfectant after every use.

Still, numbers are up here due to people ignoring the safety precautions on vacation. They toss caution to the wind in party places like the Balearic Islands, and *poof* we're off to the races again. Paris has been declared a hot zone (again) as has been their Mediterranean coast area Côte d'Azur. Belgium is temporarily only letting in commuters from border areas, and making some exceptions if you won't be spending the night. Holland and Germany still have a pretty much open border, and I haven't needed to go down to Switzerland yet, so I'm waiting to hear from them. For now, I can't run down to Spain any more until the infection go back down.

Things aren't as bad as they are in the USA, but, then practically no place is these days.

[Yavin4]

14. Spikes will happen, but when controlled, the virus will disappear. n/t

[DFW]

16. It will only disappear completely if controlled completely

And any vaccine will have to target the several mutations out there. The one spread from the February conference at the Marriott Long Wharf in Boston turned out to be a mutation from what seems to be going around elsewhere.

[Yavin4]

17. It will be years before we have a vaccine if ever.

We've had HIV for 40+ years and there's no vaccine, but we controlled the spread and have largely contained it with common sense health practices.

[Yavin4]

13. They may have found traces on surfaces but it cannot infect people that way

If it could live on surfaces and later infect people, then the positive rate would be sky high in NY which it's not. You would not be able to leave your house. There's no way to wipe down the world every day.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

19. If the virus that remains on surfaces could actually infect people,

the infection rate would be vastly higher than it is now. Just because it can be detected doesn't mean it will infect. I keep on being reminded of students taking micro-biology in college, the week of the lab where they go out and swipe all sorts of surfaces, and then are horrified at all of the bacteria everywhere. A lot of bacteria is actually good for you.

All of the constant sanitizing is basically Sanitation Theater, much like what goes on in airports is Security Theater.

It may very well be that this virus is going to have to infect essentially everybody. Some will die, some will get sick, some of those will recover, some will stay sick for a very long time, and so on. Maybe this really is going to be the end of all of us.

[Yavin4]

15. "the fact that people can be asymptomatic and still spread the virus remains a huge problem."

And that's why you need robust testing. That's the only way to measure the disease spread. Testing, quarantine, and contact tracing keeps the virus at bay and kills it.

[PSPS]

9. True, but impossible when everyone is stuck in the "denial" stage.

[gulliver]

11. I agree in general, but most corporations are our friends now.

In addition to the steps taken by New York, I think we need to get the mobile phone contact tracing process perfected. If we got that right, we could make COVID-19 and future pandemic-causing organisms extinct (in human populations) in short order.

Corporations are becoming our friends now. More and more they are socially liberal across the board and very focused on diversity and inclusion at all levels. These red yahoo states live in fear of corporations pulling out jobs. I realize there are exceptions (Koch Industries, Halliburton, News Corporation), but I think corporate liberalism is growing and a plus, especially among multi-nationals.

[Klaralven]

18. Test, quarantine, contact trace, test, quarantine, contact trace, test ....

You need to identify and quarantine the asymptomatic cases. This can only be done by identifying them as contacts of symptomatic cases, either having infected a person with a symptomatic case, or as having been infected by a symptomatic person.

And you need strict quarantine of anyone who is symptomatic until the test results are available, and then afterwards until test results clear them.