The Pledge of Allegiance... and Voting

[qwlauren35]

My niece is challenging me, and I am struggling. She says that children should not be taught to say the Pledge of Allegiance at a young age - they should be taught what it means and then allowed to decide whether they want to say it.

We make immigrants learn it to come into America. I believe that if you don't want to say it, you don't belong here. (Native Americans excluded). America may not be living up to the pledge, but to me, it is an ideal worth striving for.

Now, with that said, what about Colin - he didn't stand for the National Anthem. How do I feel about that? All of a sudden, I don't have an answer.

I should add - I have a co-worker who says that he is exercising his rights as an American to not vote, because it's a free country. I can't remember feeling so sick to my stomach as when he said that. It seemed so twisted. I look at voting as a sacred obligation. When someone says that they don't want to vote, to me, they seem un-American. Why do you deserve to be in this country if you won't vote.

I did not realize my feelings were so strong.

[AllaN01Bear]

1. i usually say ," if u didnt vote , u have nothing to complain about."

[johnp3907]

2. I haven't said the pledge since grammar school.

I realized that if I stood up when the rest of the class did I could just stand there and not say it.

And I belong here.

[70sEraVet]

8. I went to elementary school 60 years ago in upstate NY

And I guess there were a number of Jehova's Witnesses in the area, because there were always a few kids who didn't stand. We never thought anything about it. That's why I never understood the uproar over kaepernick. Well, plus I never understood the whole excitement over sports games.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

3. Reciting the Pledge of Allegiance is far too common

in far too many venues. It is an enforced display of "patriotism" which has no place here. Especially the "under God" part, which wasn't put in until 1954, and is a clear violation of the separation of church and state.

Saying that if I don't want to say it I don't belong here is pretty close to saying if you don't belong to the right religion, or if you belong to a wrong one you don't belong here.

And people who choose not to vote can't complain about who gets elected.

[Bettie]

4. I don't think either the Anthem or the Pledge has anything to do

with patriotism.

Saying the pledge every morning at school renders it meaningless. The fact that the pledge was changed to add "under God" also emphasizes Christianity and excludes those who don't believe in a god or who are of other faiths. It dilutes that we are an indivisible nation by adding in the thing that divides us most: religion.

The anthem before every event is also repeated so often as to be meaningless. It is a ritual that most do without thought or reflection. It is performative patriotism in my opinion.

Voting? Well, voting actually impacts our nation, what agendas get passed, who makes the decisions that impact our lives.

Voting is an actual ACT of patriotism. Voting shows that you care enough about our country to consider it's future.

Again, just my opinions. Nearly everyone in my small, red town disagrees with me on this. They also wish I wouldn't vote...or speak, or be a damned liberal.

[Glorfindel]

5. Pledging allegiance to "the flag" borders on outright idolatry

especially since "under God" was added to it. Some religious groups (Jehovah's Witnesses, e.g.), flat-out refuse to say it. That is their perfect right. Nothing in the Constitution requires pledging allegiance to a flag or standing for some song. Presidents, Vice-Presidents, Senators, Representatives, and members of the U.S. Armed Forces swear to "preserve, protect, and defend the Constitution of the United States" (the wording varies from case to case). That's it; no flag, no anthem, no graven image. I look at voting as my constitutional right as an American citizen, not a "sacred obligation." If your friend doesn't want to vote, that is also his right. The USA is not a theocratic state, a dictatorship, or a monarchy.

[Major Nikon]

6. Loyalty oaths grooms children for authoritarians

That’s why Hitler insisted on them. Blind allegiance to anything is never a good thing. Give people a reason to remain loyal instead of insisting it’s a condition of residence.

[Mariana]

7. If you had the power to do it

would you expel people who don't wish to participate in the Pledge, or those who choose not to vote?

I believe that if you don't want to say it, you don't belong here.

Why do you deserve to be in this country if you won't vote.

Also, for the record, this statement of yours is false:

We make immigrants learn it to come into America.

[qwlauren35]

9. Yup.

I consider voting an obligation.

I see that I'm in the minority about the Pledge, and I accept that.

But voting. I would say that you could file for an exemption based on lack of mental abilities. But otherwise, I believe voting should be mandatory. The first time you don't vote, you pay a fine. The second time you don't vote, you stand trial. The third time you don't vote, you get deported.

Now, with that said, it is incumbent on every state to make it easy to vote. Mail-in-voting has to be uncomplicated and available to everyone. Early voting has to be available, and there should be enough voting booths in every area of a state such that voting doesn't take more than 30 minutes. Election Day should be a national holiday, only essential businesses open.

Once that is done, that't it. Required.

Now, with that said, I think I have missed a few elections. I would accept the consequences of my actions, but I would also take it a LOT more seriously if there were consequences.

Now, given that Congress has the right to abstain, there would be "abstinence" voting. You could send in a blank ballot.

[Mariana]

10. You would violate the First and the Fourteenth Amendments.

Those are the ones I can think of off the top of my head, there may be others.

That's pretty unAmerican, it seems to me.

[qwlauren35]

11. I guess I'm unAmerican.

I accept that.

[Mariana]

12. You have my respect for your honesty.

Most Americans who oppose freedom, and who would deprive people of their rights in violation of the Constitution, won't admit that they're unAmerican.

[qwlauren35]

13. I will wear it proudly.

And I am happy to have your respect.

qwlauren35 - unAmerican in some aspects.