Bath Salts is one bad ass drug...sad, tragic story

[True Earthling]

Bath salts are like taking amphetamine and cocaine at the same time except it's 10X more powerful than cocaine...

Dickie Sanders was not naturally prone to depression. The 21-year-old BMX rider was known for being sweet spirited and warm -- a hugger not a hand-shaker. The kind of guy who called on holidays. Who helped his father on the family farm. Who spent countless hours perfecting complicated tricks on his bike.

Yet on Nov. 12, 2010, Sanders was found dead on the floor of his childhood bedroom. He had shot himself in the head with a .22 caliber youth rifle.

The suicide was the culmination of five days of strange behavior that began shortly after Sanders snorted a powdery substance he bought from a friend. Instead of the brief high he was seeking, he experienced days of insomnia, along with waves of terror and frightening delusions, including an incident where he “saw” 25 police cars outside his parents' kitchen window and then slit his own throat with a butcher knife. That incident landed Sanders in the hospital with stitches. For a few hours, the hallucinations subsided.

“I don't like the way this is making me feel," Sanders told his stepmother, Julie, as the two awaited his release from the hospital. "I promise I won't do anything again. I'm done.”

But the paranoia flared up with a vengeance that night, and back home, Dickie's father lay in bed with his son, arms wrapped around him, until he finally nodded off. It's unclear when Dickie woke up, made his way downstairs to his bedroom and found the rifle he had won in a shooting contest years before. No one heard the gunshot.

An autopsy revealed a powerful stimulant in his system: methylenedioxypyrovalerone, also known as MDPV.

http://www.pbs.org/newshour/multimedia/bath-salts/

[LynneSin]

1. They did an episode of 'Intervention' with a kid on bathsalts

It's more than amph & cocaine - gotta toss in PCP too because it makes these users schizo & delusional.

[True Earthling]

3. The article did a very good job of explaining the pharmacology of the drug

and how it works on the nervous system. The scary part is that the effects are long term and irreversible.

[ChisolmTrailDem]

8. That was a good article. Once I

started reading it I couldn't stop. I just finished reading it. Not usually a direction of interest for me but the article was very good at explaining how Bath Salts work and, in an elegantly not-so-subtle way, conveys the extreme danger of this substance. From the article: "MDPV is irreversible, it won't let go," said Dr. Felice.

And that Dr. Felice...all I can say is "Bravo, sir!" He is an example of the professional excellence we're lucky enough to benefit from in the great USA.

[Aerows]

15. That's where all of this face eating comes from

People didn't run around naked and eat people's faces. I'm sorry, I don't remember that being commentary before 2010. I've had people argue with me that running around and eating faces was an isolated incident. Until it wasn't, and hell, one incident is too many, but we've had how many???

I do bath salts. Sure I do. The kind that are lavender and chamomile and go ... in the bath. They are awesome and soothe tired muscles, and there is a scientific reason for that because the magnesium in Epsom salts (magnesium sulfate) can be absorbed in the skin and alleviates swelling.

You'd have to be crazy to use that other kind.

That said, this article was littered with contradictions and the person that edited it, if it was edited at all, should take a class on consistency, because it lacks it. In one place it is discussing cocaine as a "stopper" then it goes on to describe it as a transporter. I grasp chemistry, but that doesn't make me unable to recognize a metaphor that makes no sense.

[proud2BlibKansan]

2. Very scary drug

[Comrade Grumpy]

9. You have to ask yourself why they're popular if they're so scary.

No doubt some people are having bad reactions to "bath salts," which can be one of or a mixture of several different synthetic stimulants--MDPV, methcathinone, other cathinones--but we have no idea what the incidence of these is because we have no idea how many people are using this stuff. Is one user in a million going nuts? One in a hundred thousand? One in a hundred?

Apparently, a lot of people are using this stuff. I don't imagine it's because they're suffering horrible side effects from it, but because it does something that makes them feel good.

There is also an element of hype around "bath salts" that is eerily reminiscent of just about every other "worst drug ever." First it was crack, then it was meth, then it was Oxycontin, all guaranteeed to rot the mind (and sometimes the teeth).

[jmowreader]

10. There's a very simple reason why they're popular

They are available in many convenience stores, and they don't show up on a urinalysis.

The draw of being able to get fucked up without getting fired the next day is a very powerful one. Unfortunately, these things REALLY fuck you up.

Remember in The Dark Knight, when the Russian drug lords brought one of their customers to the Scarecrow--who said something like, "I said my compound would take you places; I never said they'd be places you wanted to go"? This is what bath salts are and do.

[Taverner]

4. Hysteria intended to provoke legislation

Not saying it is a good thing, but that prohibition never works. Ever.

[backscatter712]

5. The real solution is to legalize and regulate.

Make some recreational stimulants and narcotics available, in controlled doses (I'd suggest a legalized version of the old-style opium den, with regulations to ensure businesses provide clean products, and supervise & monitor their customers to ensure they're not having bad reactions or overdosing.)

When safe and legal drugs are available, people won't try shit like bath salts.

[Logical]

6. YEs they will, people are always looking for a new high!

[backscatter712]

7. Citation needed:

I can cite lots of sources that indicate that where decriminalization and legalization of drugs are implemented as part of a harm-reduction strategy, crime decreases and drug abuse decreases.

[FedUpWithIt All]

16. Decriminalization has proven successful but there is no evidence that legalization

is successful outside of marijuana.

Decriminalization is quite different than a legalization model.

[Taverner]

19. But there is plenty of evidence that prohibition FAILS EVERY TIME

Prohibition has NEVER WORKED

It won't work with bath salts. It didn't work with alcohol. It doesn't work with guns. It simply doesn't work.

[FedUpWithIt All]

20. And who are you arguing with? I support decriminalization

I do not support legalization. Don't recall saying anything about prohibition.

[Taverner]

22. To me decriminalization if prohibition lite

It still keeps the organized crime framework for contraband sales in place.

[FedUpWithIt All]

23. So combining your two posts, you're suggesting decriminalization doesn't work?

You completely WRONG.

The resulting effect: a drastic reduction in addicts, with Portuguese officials and reports highlighting that this number, at 100,000 before the new policy was enacted, has been halved in the following ten years. Portugal's drug usage rates are now among the lowest of EU member states, according to the same report.

One more outcome: a lot less sick people. Drug related diseases including STDs and overdoses have been reduced even more than usage rates, which experts believe is the result of the government offering treatment with no threat of legal ramifications to addicts.

Read more: http://www.businessinsider.com/portugal-drug-policy-decriminalization-works-2012-7#ixzz27QTY9mYk

And while many CONFUSE drug legalization with the working decriminalization model, the two ARE NOT the same. There is no working legalization model that has shown positive results.

[Taverner]

24. No, I am saying decriminalization is an OK start

Full on legalization is better though

[FedUpWithIt All]

25. ...

there is plenty of evidence that prohibition FAILS EVERY TIME

To me decriminalization if prohibition lite

Please provide actual support for your theory that legalization will lower direct and peripheral drug crimes, lower addiction rates, slow rate of introductory use and lowers incidence of health risks associated with abuse issues better than decriminalization has. Real world experience with that model would be appreciated.

[Taverner]

26. Outright prohibition fails every time

I didn't say a thing about prohibition lite...


As per evidence, I can show you that the tougher on drugs the police are, the more drugs are used.

[FedUpWithIt All]

27. Back up you assertions that legalization is the best model.

I have watched you claim it in nearly every drug thread, i have personally read on this site, for years. Back it up. Show us a real world example where drug legalization has worked to lower drug related crime, lowered incidence of use and improved health.

[Taverner]

28. I can't speak to lowered use

HOWEVER, Holland legalized MJ and there is no crime in their coffee shop section of town

It's common sense, really.

Let's take Opiate Addiction. The opiate addict has no place to turn other than quitting cold turkey. This can KILL people, and its completely unecesarry. Let them buy opiates OTC and they can step down, which is the reccomended method.

Just one example.

Per crime - legalize drugs, and the Zetas have a new competitor, one they CAN'T behead in the desert: Big Pharma. Lesser of two evils. I don't remember the last time Pfizer and Lily had a shootout over who gets the Amoxicillin territory.

[FedUpWithIt All]

31. Holland decriminalized the selling of small amounts of MJ

and the use of the same. Production and distribution is still illegal. It is more a non enforcement policy than an actual decriminalization. Portugal's model works even better according to the stats.

http://www.cbsnews.com/2100-201_162-5156590.html

I fully support the legalization of MJ, although i myself don't get the appeal but your calls for legalization is not for just marijuana. Is it right for you to speak out about the benefits of legalization of all drug classes, on countless threads, when you cannot even support your comments with facts and examples when asked?

I disagree that full drug legalization is common sense. You are stating nothing more than your biased opinions.

True common sense is to go with the model that has shown actual success instead of calling for a model that has shown to have poor success.

Limited attempts at legalization proved a disaster in Switzerland. Learning from the mistake the Swiss ended up implementing a policy of decriminalization and a harm reduction policy similar to Portugal's, which proved somewhat successful.

http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/?q=node/1283

[FedUpWithIt All]

32. You're wrong again...

SPECIAL CIRCUMSTANCES: In recent years, U.S. citizens in the Netherlands have suffered death and injuries stemming from the use of marijuana, hashish and other “soft drugs.” Marijuana is a controlled substance in the Netherlands and possession is a misdemeanor that can result in a fine. Historically, use of illegal “soft drugs” in some parts of the Netherlands has been tolerated when bought at licensed “coffee shops.” Dutch laws have changed and a ban on foreigners’ access to “coffee shops” is being phased-in acrossthe Netherlands.

”Coffee shops” are a haven for petty criminals who prey on tourists and other individuals under the influence of drugs. Persons who visit “coffee shops” have become victims of pickpocketing, identity theft, sexual assault, and other crimes. Visitors are warned that marijuana sold in the Netherlands may contain higher levels of THC, the active chemical in marijuana, which may exacerbate the drug’s effects and a user’s impairment. The U.S. Surgeon General has issued a warning against marijuana use. Additionally, “coffee shops” and other locations are known for selling other, illegal harder drugs, such as psychotropic mushrooms. Visitors to the Netherlands are also cautioned against using such drugs, as they are dangerous.

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_982.html

[Taverner]

36. You know how I know this is bullshit?

" suffered death and injuries stemming from the use of marijuana, hashish and other “soft drugs.” "

Pot has killed exactly nobody

[FedUpWithIt All]

38. "stemming from the use"

LONDON (AP) – People who use marijuana before driving are nearly twice as likely to cause a car crash as those not under the influence of alcohol or drugs, according to a Canadian analysis of previous studies.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/story/health/story/2012-02-09/Marijuana-users-twice-as-likely-to-cause-car-crash/53031202/1

[Taverner]

40. Well yeah, you shouldn't drive when your judgement is impaired. Doesn't mean it's not harmless.

Kava is a heart healthy herbal relaxant which is legal, no undesirable side effects and you shouldn't drive after having kava tea...

[Taverner]

29. LEt me add...

Prohibition failed when it came to booze

Prohibition failed when it came to other drugs

Prohibition fails when it comes to gun control

[dkf]

30. You want full legalization for bath salts?

Maybe we should so that people can see the effects and get scared. Yup sell it on the streets everywhere and get this over with.

Just don't do it anywhere near me because I don't want my head chewed off. This is a great reason to get a gun.

[EOTE]

34. Bath salts already are legal.

You can purchase them all over the country. And you can pick up MDPV online at numerous vendors legally.

[True Earthling]

35. MDPV is illegal...this was in the article

On July 9, 2012, responding to rising cases of bath salts abuse, President Obama signed into law the Synthetic Drug Abuse Prevention Act, which bans MDPV, mephedrone and 29 other bath salts ingredients.

On July 26, the Drug Enforcement Administration announced that it had seized more than five million packets of synthetic drugs and arrested 90 people in a nationwide crackdown called Operation Log Jam. Of the drugs seized, 167,000 packets and ingredients to make an additional 392,000 products were synthetic cathinones. The raid also targeted another class of synthetic drugs known as synthetic cannabinoids or synthetic marijuana, commonly called K2 and Spice.

[Taverner]

18. Really - why use bath salts when you can smoke crack?

Or meth?

[Major Nikon]

11. I'm for making them all available

Drugs that are relatively harmless like MJ should be available over the counter and sold anywhere alcohol is sold. Drugs that are easy to overdose on should be available under more controlled conditions, but still should be available to adults who want them. I'm a hard core civil libertarian on this. If you can't do what you want with your own flesh bag, what liberty do you have really?

[backscatter712]

12. The modernized, legalized and regulated opium den is my brainfart of the day.

License them, set rules of the road, require these establishments to observe protocols that include medically trained personnel monitoring people being served potentially dangerous drugs such as opiates, and standing ready to administer treatments if there's an overdose or some other bad reaction. Such establishments would use clean needles, provide strictly controlled doses of pharmaceutical grade drugs, and provide the option of addiction treatments to customers in a non-coercive and stress-free environment. This would enable people who are addicted to use these drugs in a safe way, be able to live productive lives, hold down jobs, and be able to function without ending up on the street, committing crimes to make a subsistence, and dying in some gutter.

[Major Nikon]

13. I'm not sure you'd have to go to that extent for most drugs

They should be regulated to the extent they are a hazzard, just like any other consumer product. Even opiates are handed out with a prescription every day. I'm not saying prescription is the route to go, either, but there should be some way to insure people aren't unknowingly getting a fatal dose. Obviously something as dangerous as propofol should be administered under the strictest conditions, but most drugs wouldn't require that.

[backscatter712]

14. True.

For marijuana, I'd say make it available like alcohol - you can buy it and smoke it at home - nobody has ever died of a marijuana overdose.

I was only suggesting the legal modern opium den for the dangerous stuff, like the strong opiates.

[Taverner]

17. Yep. Exactly. EOM.

[Hukdonfonix]

21. thats really scary

and I still dont understand the whole human brain desire for that kinda high

[JVS]

33. Sounds like a bunch of bullshit.

[Barack_America]

39. Until you've seen someone high on bath salts.

I had a patient once. Came to us sedated on an ungodly amount of ativan, haldol and god knows what else. Claimed he was seeing police officers speaking to him in German. The slightest agitation would set him off. I happened to have my stethoscope on his chest when someone bumped something in the room...his heart rate jumped to at least 160 instantly. Was in kidney failure due to muscle breakdown from constant movement. Crazy, scary stuff.

[frylock]

37. kick for later perusal