Chris Cuomo and Thomas Friedman were discussing the trump supporter, and suggesting that

[still_one]

it wasn’t that trump supporters agree with trump, but it is that they despise the Democrats/progressives so much, and trump “socks” it to the Democrats that they follow him

Cuomo then asked Friedman what is the antidote to that?

Friedman suggested that trump supporters feel that Democrats look down on them, and do not respect them, and the way to gain their respect is to sit down and listen to them. Friedman suggested that Biden should go into trump country and listen to them

What I think Friedman is missing is that listening is a two way street. If someone sits down with a trump supporter and listens to their views, and they say something factually wrong, such as masks are not necessary, and you explain why masks are important, would they heed that advice?

I recall Biden campaigning and a person came up to him and accused him of trying to take away “our” guns. Biden explained that he wasn’t, and the person said yes you are, you want to take away our second amendment rights, to which finally an exasperated Biden replied, “you are full of s**t”

The person refused to accept that Biden was not going to take his guns away or repeal the second amendment

My point being that I think it is very difficult to reason with someone who is brainwashed

[TreasonousBastard]

1. It is, but just talking to them is a start.

[underpants]

3. I agree. It wouldn't hurt.

[Tumbulu]

27. I don't know, because he could get Covid, these people

are all irresponsible.

I live in Trump country, so many of them live in worlds filled with 35+ years of propaganda.

Is there any hope that Biden can get though? And not get infected trying?,

[still_one]

13. Sure, but Fox News I believe makes it very difficult to reason with these folks who won't listen

[H2O Man]

40. Fair point.

The truth is that many Trump supporters are currently 100% incapable of taking part in a rational, two-way discussion. No doubt about that. These individuals are, for all practical purposes, parrots of the White House spokespersons and Fox News hosts: like parrots, they repeat the words they have heard, despite not having a grasp of what they are saying.

However, these are not the republicans or Trump cult members we might speak to. In order to identify those who we might converse with, I'd suggest borrowing from Malcolm X. In talking about trusting individuals, Malcolm had a system of rating them from zero to one hundred. And he said he didn't trust anyone 100%. That's a good model for applying here.

Rather than investing energy in talking to Trump cult members about any current event other than "today's weather," we can attempy to identify those who do not immediately view us as a threat. More, those with whom we might be able to find some small region of "common ground" with. I use the issue of the value of the Constitution. Even with those who tend to focus on Amendment 2, I find it possible. No one favors school shootings, for example. We might not agree on the best ways to prevent such incidents, but it can lead to meaningful discussions.

There are, as noted, people who find Trump annoying from time to time, but hate "Democrats" full-time. Often, in conversation, they will agree that there has been a corruption of significant parts of government, due to the influence of corporations, lobbyists, and the "elites." This creates an opening.

In such conversations, I've had people state that I won't change their mind. I make clear that I am not trying to. Rather, I'm telling them what I think, and why, and am interested in what they think, and why. That tends to lower the walls of distrust. And that is important -- perhaps more today than at any time in the last century. It's not a cure for the increasingly dangerous tensions in our country, but it is a start, one person at a time.

[still_one]

48. +++

[ms liberty]

51. This. n/t

[Proud liberal 80]

2. They were half right

I do believe that the Trump supporter is really just a right wing crazy who hates “Libruls” and Democrats....it’s not really Trump that they love, but more the fact that he has a R next to his name and he is the leader of the party now...when he loses they will give him the George W Bush treatment

But I disagree about trying to sit down and speaking with them...,they HATE Democrats especially after listening to Hate radio and Fox News for 3 decades....you can’t convince them

[still_one]

4. I agree

[Ferrets are Cool]

6. +1

[SlogginThroughIt]

9. yep

[crickets]

17. Yep.

That's part of the problem. The hatred has "and I will never listen to or agree with you, ever" baked into it.

[Ferrets are Cool]

5. You cannot reason with STUPID

When you wallow with pigs, you both end up in the muck.

[StarfishSaver]

7. I'm sick of the notion that everyone is supposed to cater to Trump supporters

These people attack, smear, namecall, and refuse to listen. But everyone else is supposed to tiptoe around them and then take the blame for their refusal to listen to reason.

BS.

[still_one]

14. That is the problem, if they won't listen it is a waste of time

[Tumbulu]

29. I agree!

They are delusional bullies and should be ostracized ( at a minimum) for the death and destruction that they have caused.

[betsuni]

31. Yes, I rolled my eyes so hard it hurt.

[NRaleighLiberal]

8. so, it is always the liberals/Democrats that have to be understanding. Fuck That!

[MustLoveBeagles]

10. You're right still_ one

I wouldn't mind engaging with them if I thought it would do any good. It seems like liberals are expected to do all the heavy lifting while the other side isn't held to the same standard. We're also expected to shut up and take their abuse. Screw that.

[oasis]

11. "Some of those (Deplorables) are irredeemable". Hillary had it right.

Friedman needs to take a hike.

[tavernier]

12. Sorry Tom

No vaccine for stupid, despite all the listening and respect in the world.

[rockfordfile]

15. Those trump supporters are un-American

[Trumpocalypse]

16. Both Friedman and Cuomo are wrong

They hate liberals and democrats because right wing hate media from Rush Limbaugh to FAUX News has told them to hate liberals and Democrats.

[Tumbulu]

30. Correct !

Unless this hate media is neutered, we have no chance.

[CatWoman]

18. he was just on the 11th Hour spouting that bullshit

[Trumpocalypse]

22. He's parroting the right wing talking point

that elitist liberals look down on ordinary people.

[grantcart]

19. Friedman is 100% correct

I have met hundreds of these people in my new job.

They don't understand climate change or DNA or evolution and feel that the urban educated masses look down on them as uneducated and stupid.

Their children are either better educated than they are and look down on them or are drug addicts with prison records and 9nly call them for money.

They are lonely, broke and have FOX 0n 18 hours a day. It's the only place where their confused mishmash of ridiculous religious and American mythology is embraced and not ridiculed.

Finally they take refuge in a moral high ground justifying everything by equating abortion with murder and demonizing their political opponents as murderers.

[StarfishSaver]

21. Democrats have spent the last ten years reaching out to these people

They are the most catered-to neglected people in history.

I'm sick of being told we have to keep listening to them and showing them respect. They have gotten far more attention than they deserved and they continue to spit in our faces.

Leave them to themselves.

[grantcart]

24. It has nothing to do with party out reach

These are people who are socially isolated and suffering the results of a lifetime of bad decisions.

They are confused and afraid. They don't understand the new technologies. They support Trump because he doesn't judge them and embraces them telling them that their failures were not their fault.

Once the face a humiliating and devistating political loss I predict that they will not have the political discipline to stay active in a political party and will drift into increasingly apocalyptic fundamentalist religious "cults" with Trump like leaders who will embrace their pathetic lives.

[Tumbulu]

33. I hope that you are correct

But worry that they do not go lightly.....

[grantcart]

41. They do not have a unified political philosophy, just shared grievances

If every Dem and e wry Dem leaning Independent and alienated Republicans voted we will have a historic victory.

The polls are based on 2016 turn out models.

[JI7]

44. And they harass minorities that move into their neighborhoods

[appalachiablue]

26. Well done, lays out the scene

[Blue_true]

20. I agree with you point relative to most Trump supporters.

They are not going to listen to reason about Trump. So we have to show that we don’t look down on them in other ways. I am personally put off by most of their conduct, but in almost any person, there is a lot to like about them. I consider Trump voters to be fully my country-people, even as I am angered by some of their conduct, if they are attacked by a foreign adversary, I will come to their aid without thinking about it.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

23. I am tired of being told we need to listen to them.

They don't listen to us. In fact, they are willfully ignorant in every aspect. They scorn us. They despise us. They look down on us. They make zero effort to engage in meaningful dialogue. And now they want US to cater to THEM? No. Not gonna happen.

Honestly, I'm willing to say "A Pox on All of Them" and move on. Hmm. Maybe I should start an organization with the name Move On. Oh, wait. It's been done already.

[Maru Kitteh]

28. So start "A Pox On All Of Them." I will be your first recruit. Member #002.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

35. Oh, Okay. APoxOnAllOfThem.com, right?

I'm not good at organizing, but perhaps I should at least reserve the domain name.

[Maru Kitteh]

36. oooh. how about we start a .org? It's dignified and we can claim non-profit status.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

38. .org would work

but A Pox On All Of Them is really unweildy.

I'm open to suggestions.

Perhaps APox.org, but even that seems off.

[Maru Kitteh]

39. ha ha. You're right. Looks like Pox on the Mall.

[PoindexterOglethorpe]

37. Actually, I just checked and that domain name

would be available, but with or without capitalization it's not really readable.

Suggestions?

[appalachiablue]

25. Media deregulation, then corp. consolidation

that's produced hate radio for 35 years, Fox News for 25 years and lately ONN, Sinclair, Bretibart and Q Anon, isn't it a bit late to 'try and go listen to them'?

It would be great, but know that people are saturated and Trumpers have predecessors, many of them for decades. Some could surely be reached, and it's worth trying, just be realistic.

[Earthshine2]

32. We can't reason with (most of) them. The solution is to outnumber them at the polls ...

... and in life.

The hatred that many on the right feel for the left is endemic. It's not going away.

[rufus dog]

34. Let me ponder that

DONE

Obama, the best person to hold the WH tried that for six years.

FUCK THEM! Now we try punching them in the mouth.

[BannonsLiver]

42. Friedman is still on a bubba listening safari from early 2017

When we were told we needed to lower our noses and care about what they had to say. I think we’ve seen how that worked out, and what they’re all about by now.

[Willto]

43. Friedman is full of BS

I live in the deep south among these Trump Humpers. I tried for years to have calm rational discussions with them. But ultimately I gave it up. The people on the right that haven't already abandoned this current Trump shit show are utterly unreachable. Any attempt is a fool's errand. I would love to have been on that show to have given them a hard dose of reality.

First most of the Trumpsters here literally hate Democrats and openly claim that we Democrats hate America and want to destroy it. So right off the bat how are you going to have a reasonable discussion with a person like that? You really think a person like that is going to listen to you with an open mind. Shit!

The locals here have heads packed with 30 years of Fox News and Rush Limbaugh propaganda. They are like a reverse barometer of truth. They glean all data through a filter of confirmation bias. Any Fox News bullshit that they want to believe is accepted without question no matter how ridiculous or unsubstantiated the claim. On the other hand anything that doesn't support their beliefs is rejected pending an almost impossible level of proof. And even if you are able to provide such proof they will simple claim your sources are "Fake News" and still reject it on those grounds. In fact they don't really want to even hear your proof. They just asked for it thinking you would not be able to provide it. It's just a ruse. They do not believe what they believe based on logic or facts so you cannot make any impact on them using logic or facts.

This 42 to 44 percent of people that consistently approve of Trump no matter what are unreachable. That is a waste of time and resources. We are far better served by trying to get our side up off their asses and out to vote. History shows us that when our side turns out to vote we win.

[Hugin]

45. You first Friedman... I'll hold your beer.

Dumbass.

[JI7]

46. Are they saying Joe Biden looks down on them ? Or is it his respect for the person he served 8 years

as VP that they don't like ?

How come they are ok with the "elitist" lifestyle of the Trump Trash ?

And why do these people attack Meghan Markle ?

[still_one]

50. Nah they weren't saying that. They were arguing that it isn't that the trump supporter likes trump,

but their common hate of the Democrats that bring trump and his supporters together, and arguing that they feel they don’t get respect, and are looked “down upon” by Democrats/progressives, and the only way to remedy that is by listening to them, which is a sign of respect

I think Friedman is making too much of a one-sided psychological argument

[JI7]

47. Does Andrew Cuomo look down on those people ? Does Joe Biden look down on those people ?

Why do they hate his brother ?

And we know what they say about people like Friedman .

Why don't Friedman and Cuomo go out and talk to them ?

We went through this shit during the last election already .

[Mr. Ected]

49. You don't just isolate "them" and talk to "them"

If they can't hear Joe's message right now, if their ratfucking brains can't cognize Joe's words and Joe's meanings without an instructional manual or permission from Sean Hannity, then forget about them. They're a lost cause. I don't hear division in Joe's words; I hear unity and hope. Sorry, if you're so jaded that you look for ulterior motives in ideals worth pursuing, then the problem IS you and Joe won't be able to fix your hopeless ass.

[JHB]

52. I see Friedman is revving up his truck-mounted goalposts again

How many times has he tried this himself with a real person?

Not some fictional "cab driver" he can "quote" repeating his own thoughts back to him and pretending its folksy wisdom, but talking with a flesh-and-blood human over an extended period (not chance, one-time encounters).

I've done it repeatedly, sometimes even make a little headway, and then it all gets wiped out by fresh doses of Sean and Rush and Glenn and Laura and Dana and Mark and Michael and their FOX friends and OAN and NRO and NRA and the ACTION ALERTS they get in their email inboxes and Facebook feeds and...


They say we left them behind, neglect them, but when we try to change that, all we get is "SOCIALISM!!!!!!!!!!"

Obama tried to avoid gun issues to the point where one of the jokes in SNL's parody of the 2012 presidential debates was "What are you going to do to protect my kids from AK-47s?", to which both "Romney" and "Obama" shrug their shoulders and say "Nothing." Yet for eight years they were convinced down to their toes that Obama was coming to get their guns, and even eight years of that not happening dissuaded them from continuing to believe it to this day.

And of course, it's always our fault. They look down on us. Don't count us as "real Americans." They act like we're rude, unruly house guests who won't leave and boy are they on their last nerve ready to kick us out of their house when it's not their f***ing house.

But no, Tom doesn't suggest they try just talking to us "libtards."

[Act_of_Reparation]

53. In all fairness to Thomas Friedman...

...he is a fucking idiot, and saying right things doesn't come easily to him.

[still_one]

55. lol

[yardwork]

54. It's always our fault that other people are stupid and mean.

I'm sick of being blamed.

Something like 2/3 of those eligible to vote never do. They feel abandoned by our system. Let's reach out to them instead of to Trump supporters.

Also, the media gives way too much attention to stupid, mean Trump supporters.

[obamanut2012]

57. Me too -- they are like Nazis

They hate me because I'm a woman, gay, and a liberal. They literally HATE me. They hate us. They look down on US, not the other way around.

[Buckeyeblue]

56. I think this could be a good idea but it's not going to happen in the next 55 days

But in a Biden Administration, both Biden and Harris should commit to doing listening sessions in deep red portions of the country.

They could listen to these citizens concerns and explain to them their positions. Maybe even throw in some civics (this is how the constitution is amended).

Might not be a bad idea.

[HAB911]

58. I do look down on them

One cannot reason with a stump

[NewJeffCT]

59. 30 years of Limbaugh and 25 years of Fox News

is a lot of brainwashing to overcome. it can't be done in 2 months, though a start can be made.

[Mersky]

60. The biggest tRumper problem in my family is my aunt

twenty years of listening to rush limbaugh has her convinced all liberals are moochers and reprobates. That certainly includes a hippie like me. She’s forgotten that I gave her my old car when she needed one 19 years ago. That was after her second marriage. Her memory is as dodgy as her standards, but good golly, she knows she’s never wrong.

I’m working on it, because I haven’t forgotten who showed up first to the hospital when my SO was life flighted to the ER. It was her.

Am not expecting a miracle in changing her mind before the election. The uncle who won’t make eye contact with me anymore is her third husband. And, I really thought he’d be better than that, but he isn’t. He’s forgotten in a way that is hardened and hate-filled. I don’t have enough room in my life to deal with him right now. I’m not sure I want to know what would make him tick over to being so lost. He’s had significant health problems, and I’m not sure that his poor heart health really allows for clear thinking anymore.

What I’m getting at is that rw media filled the gap that family counseling sessions should hold. Who attends sessions with extended family, anyways? No one.

I show up in their lives just enough to have a tether, but there isn’t enough time in the world to undo the lies they consume. Still, that was my old car she drove for two years.

[appalachiablue]

61. The power and negative influence of propaganda

has been known since the early 20th c. at least. Some people are easily manipulated and media propaganda enlarges their already hateful and narrow minded views and drives them to vile actions.

The Fairness Doctrine of 1949 for news broadcasts was implemented in the U.S. after the world witnessed the horrors of the Nazi regime aided by propaganda via Goebbels and mass media radio, Streicher's Der Sturmer newspaper, and films of Leni Riefenstahl.

In 1987 under Reagan the Fairness Doctrine was ignored, and thus the rise of Rush and Hate Radio for 35 years, then Fox News in 1996 and look at the result.

Huey Long, populist Louisiana politician/demagogue during the Depression enthralled followers with his stump speeches and promises during a time of hardship when people were looking for help and 'saviors.' FDR was concerned that Long would run for president in 1936.

Father John Coughlin, the raving anti semite 'radio priest' during the 1930s Depression in Detriot had a huge following of listeners until he was considered so dangerous that FDR, Joe Kennedy Sr. and others took him down when World War II started in Europe.

Why has nothing been done to address the loss of the Fairness Doctrine, the rise of extremist media and massive corporate consolidation of US media into 5-6 giants in the last 35 years?

[still_one]

62. Unfortunately, Bill Clinton signed the Telecommunications Act of 1996 which helped usher in

that 91% of political and talk radio broadcast is conservative

https://www.americanprogress.org/issues/economy/news/2007/07/10/3297/talk-radio-by-the-numbers/

[appalachiablue]

63. Correct, that giant bill took more reguations off media esp.

previous ownership rules which limited the no. of media outlets- TV channels, radio stations and newspapers- that any one company could own in a geographic area. Then it was off to the races for buying up and consolidating.

Hate Radio has had a huge influence since 1987, hundreds of colleges & universities also use them to broadcast sports.

The US news media is so distorted that a major overhaul would be needed. But good luck w the FCC and reviving the Sherman Anti Trust Act that Reagan also ignored in the 80s.

Newscorp, Fox and Murdoch are prominent but not the entire problem anymore.

Bloomberg, Tom Steyer or other wealthy people should buy & take over, or develop a new, accessible media outlet.