The Social Dilemma on Netflix

[Johnny2X2X]

It’s must see and really powerful and chilling.

https://m.imdb.com/title/tt11464826/

[LizBeth]

1. I am half way thru. Very interesting. Gonna give an heads up to my people for them to watch.

[Johnny2X2X]

2. It was really emotional for me

Basically this power has been unleashed on us and bad actors are exploiting it. Disconnecting isn’t the answer, the entire internet needs a new business model or the world is going to descend into complete chaos and strife.

[LizBeth]

4. I have been researching and having conversation about this for about 15 yrs now.

Like I say, only half way thru but now everything I do triggers what I just heard on the show. It is very interesting how the mind works and would be good for all people to pay attention. The thing, many minds are not open to this kind of information, or any really. I hear you, but this isn't just happening today, we have been watching it happen for a while now. I could say "I told you so" to my kids all over the place, or "I was right". The upside is, because I was in it for so long, having these conversations, I raised the kids during that time and brought a lot of awareness with them, stepping into this world.

Really interesting.

[Skittles]

3. I see the affects Facebook has had on people

very disturbing indeed

[Johnny2X2X]

5. All social media! DU included.

Message boards are social media too.

The hard part is that it’s the entire business model for the internet that is unethical and must be changed to save humanity.

[Skittles]

6. no one says "I need DU to keep up with family and friends"

that is just plain ridiculous

[Johnny2X2X]

7. No but we all check on DU for changes

That chemical reaction in the brain is the same for new political news as it is for likes on FB. The business model is the same, more time viewing equals more money.

And I love DU and think it’s a great and accurate source, but it also is a way to insulate ourselves from different viewpoints.

[Skittles]

8. if you ONLY read DU then maybe

but I read many sources as I am sure a lot of other DUers do - we're not like Fox News idiots

[Johnny2X2X]

9. This isn't about individuals really

Last edited Thu Sep 10, 2020, 09:15 PM - Edit history (1)

This is about society. Heck, you could not own a computer, phone, or even a TV and this is still a problem. Society is tearing itself apart because of the business model inherent in the internet. It affects the whole world.

[Skittles]

10. I'll watch it

I'm just glad I was able to live some of my life without computers and cell phones; yes INDEED

[Johnny2X2X]

11. Do so.

The whole point is that social media and news on the internet is driven by profit and controlled by advanced algorithms that make decisions humans aren’t even involved in or aware of. Their objective is to manipulate humans into more screen time. The biggest problem is that the algorithms have determined that fake news is the key to increasing screen time to the tune of 6 times more profitable.

So you’ve got this incredibly powerful computers/AIs basically tricking humans to change their behavior and thoughts 1 bit at a time. Humans are not biologically equipped to combat it mentally, we haven’t evolved for this. And you’ve got an entire technology with 6 times the profit motive to drive fake and destructive information over beneficial and factual information.

And bad actors are using this to bring down civilization. It’s scary.

[Skittles]

25. OMG Johnny, I did watch The Social Dilemma

I honestly highly recommend EVERYONE watch that documentary. Crazy, scary stuff. Makes me proud I have never joined FB, Twitter, Instagram, any of that stuff. And my cell phone is in Airplane mode more often than not! In fact, if I don't work I rarely even check it. And who the F*** likes getting EMAILS? I HATE EMAIL!!!

[radius777]

16. Apples and oranges. DU is a moderated site w/ethical owners

with a longtime connection to its community. Moderation removes extreme voices and prevents manipulation from outside actors. There are also no algorithms to direct people into 'filter bubbles' and 'keep people hooked' that exist on social media platforms. If people overindulge it's on them to limit themselves like with any other hobby or interest.

[hunter]

12. DU is my only social media. My wife and I subscribe to a wealth of news sources...

...local, national, and international.

We really couldn't do that before the internet.

I think television is the greater danger. Television made Trump.

By all accounts Trump himself is addicted to television.

There's no traditional television in our house -- no broadcast, no cable, no satellite.

We do subscribe to Netflix.

We don't see any television advertising.

I think people can be taught how to recognize and avoid internet bullshit; to not let the garbage overwhelm the good.

Our own adult children and their cousins don't pay any attention at all to traditional television and radio. They 'cast everything to their televisions from their phones and laptops.

Unlike television the internet can be anything we want it to be.

People who celebrate their own ignorance and bigotry are always going to make poor choices with or without the internet.

[Johnny2X2X]

13. Trump came into power through Facebook

His campaign was light years beyond Hillary in harnessing this power, they created millions of ads for individual Facebook users based on their psychological profiles which they obtained fraudulently.

What is sold to companies is not your data necessarily, but the ability to manipulate users. The more predictive your manipulations are the more you can charge advertisers. And they can be awfully predictive because the algorithms used are designed for that. They are not so much as advertising as they are controlling people. It’s immoral.

For instance, they can predict exactly what % of a certain segment will follow a link based on not only their profiles, but on what the algorithm has manipulated them into seeing and believing. This is powerful stuff and should be illegal.

[Skittles]

26. hey

I think this topic is worthy of its own thread, and you explain it very well. ALL DUers need to watch that documentary!

[Johnny2X2X]

14. Trump came into power through Facebook

His campaign was light years beyond Hillary in harnessing this power, they created millions of ads for individual Facebook users based on their psychological profiles which they obtained fraudulently.

What is sold to companies is not your data necessarily, but the ability to manipulate users. The more predictive your manipulations are the more you can charge advertisers. And they can be awfully predictive because the algorithms used are designed for that. They are not so much as advertising as they are controlling people. It’s immoral.

For instance, they can predict exactly what % of a certain segment will follow a link based on not only their profiles, but on what the algorithm has manipulated them into seeing and believing. This is powerful stuff and should be illegal.

And it’s not as simple as showing people links they think they’ll click on. It’s way more than that. For instance, take 100 users of similar psychological profile and show them each an anti vaxxer story, say only 8 of them click on the link, well the algorithm can then show content or headlines for the next several weeks that manipulate the user so that of the other 92, 50 more follow that link. It’s not persuasion as much as it is manufacturing a predictable outcome.

And don’t forget, this isn’t just a Facebook thing, your browser has a psychological profile of you. Your enail service night, your other social media might. Your entire history is stored and used.

[hunter]

15. Ronald Reagan was a venal and incurious tool just like Trump

He wasn't elected by internet social media.

A great number of U.S. Americans are in fact deplorable. They *want* fascist, racist, misogynistic, LGBTQ bashing, anti-intellectual leaders, preferably white males.

I was frequently beaten bloody and constantly bullied in middle and high school. The bullies called me "queerbait." It was so bad I quit high school. Cell phones didn't exist then, so that wasn't the problem.

I'm not sure what psychological profile my browser has on me. Judging by the advertising, "the internet" seems to think I want women's clothing, eyeglasses, and industrial equipment. It knows that I like to watch dog rescue videos. I frequently visit science, technology, and engineering sites, and I do watch many of the Dodo videos catbyte posts here.

I don't watch Lincoln Project ads here. I don't see many political ads at all in my daily life. Political ads in my mail go straight to the recycling bin, I don't see any ads on television, and uBlock Origin kills the ads on sites I rarely visit. I don't block ads on sites I frequently visit, and I pay to make ads go away on sites like DU.

In any case, I don't think "social media" is changing us. Rather it is revealing who we really are -- a land where cops murder people with impunity, especially black people; a land where many of our neighbors are bigots if not full blown Nazis.

If that exposure breaks up friendships and family relationships, I'm not sorry, I don't need any Nazi friends or family. Maybe "social media" will inoculate us as a society against fascism and racism by exposing it. Maybe it's a good thing when nearly everyone can record videos of social injustices and post this raw to the world.

I'm confident we can teach our children, friends, and family how to avoid the cesspools of cruelty and propaganda on the internet. I'm confident that we can drive the deplorable people who feel empowered by Trump back into their holes, and maybe bring a few spewing hate from their basements up into the light.

[Johnny2X2X]

18. I disagree

I've seen good people in my own family be changed and warped over time. I've seen smart friends change into irrational fools before my eyes.

I'm sorry you were bullied in high school, that's awful, bullies have always existed.

But this isn't about any one person, this is about society and civilization. Although I question any individual's ability to resist the manipulations of super computers aimed directly at their brain with the sole purpose of changing their behavior, 1 person is not the point. We are seeing a blurring of the truth that divides populations into factions that didn't exist like this before. Sure, we've always had political divides in this country, but we're right now on the brink of a Civil War because of those divides. The situation is not tenable, if it continues like it is now we're looking at the destruction of civilization on planet earth within 20 years.

The most frightening part is that there are bad actors who are taking advantage of this to sow chaos and they're completely unchecked right now. Industry isn't willing to do anything about it. Government doesn't have the will to regulate the internet. And we're spinning out of control because of it.

I'm not confident at all we can teach our children, friends, and family how to play and win a game of wits vs AIs capable of 100 Quadrillion calculations per second. AIs who literally know more about users than the users know about themselves. The only answer is to re-task the algorithms that are controlling and directing Internet content and traffic with a new business objective, one that will not make choices based solely on increasing users' screen time to drive revenue. That is what must be done and it's incredibly daunting to think about the entire tech industry having to change at once from a maximizing profit business model to one that is based on ethics (or at least has a significant ethical and humane component).

[lindysalsagal]

21. THIS IS THE BEST REPLY ONLINE I'VE READ ALL YEAR

Thank you.

[kentuck]

24. Interesting comments.

Personally, I have been thinking of leaving all social media, including DU, until the election is over, because I do not wish to be part of the division leading up to the election. It is about what is best for society, rather than what is best for the Party.

It is about society and people are being manipulated.

My hope is that if society creates the problem, then society can fix the problem.

[Zing Zing Zingbah]

17. I'll have to check this out.

Thanks 😊

[lindysalsagal]

19. "The attention extraction model."

I've been searching for the term for all of this. If you haven't watched this film, you're locked in the matrix. AI owns you.

[lindysalsagal]

20. OH come on! rec the *$ out of this!

[Richard D]

22. I watched it yesterday

An incredibly important movie. Should be a must-see for all.

[betsuni]

23. Just finished watching it. Bummer.

One thing I wonder about. Young people in school, at least college, are doing research all the time for their classes. Critical thinking and objectivity. It seems to me that they'd be less likely to believe conspiracy theories and misinformation than older people, yet so many of them don't vote because of both sides cynicism. They don't want to research what affects their future? Some idiot on a podcast yammers on about the establishment and both sides and Hillary Clinton or Joe Biden being huge racists and warmongers or whatever and they just believe it? I am old. I don't understand.