General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsA Question For All You Osteopathy Apologists
Doctors: Trumps blood oxygen level dropped twice recentlyI was trying to reflect the upbeat attitude of the team, that the president, that his course of illness has had. Didnt want to give any information that might steer the course of illness in another direction...
Is Dr. Conley saying that what he chooses to tell the public will steer the course of Trump's illness?
That's what it sounds like to me, and if so, it does seem consistent with what I've read about osteopathy.
MineralMan
(146,333 posts)Dr. Conley is probably not the brightest light on the tree, though, but it's not that he is an Osteopath. I'm not sure what set you off on this osteopathy thing, but you're off base.
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)Remember Dr. Ronny Jackson? He's an M.D. So is Rand Paul.
dalton99a
(81,599 posts)Retired anesthesiologist named Rene Boucher
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,343 posts)Delphinus
(11,840 posts)Rand Paul was an ophthalmologist ...
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)I have known several who do so
The Velveteen Ocelot
(115,869 posts)He got his M.D. at Duke University in 1988 and completed an ophthalmology residency. However, his ophthalmology certification is a bit dodgy; he created his own certification organization so he wouldn't have to recertify as the American Board of Ophthalmology requires:
Named board members were Paul, his wife, and his father-in-law. The NBO was, itself, never accepted as an accrediting entity by organizations such as the American Board of Medical Specialties, and its certification was considered invalid by many hospitals and insurance companies. Paul let his own ABO certification lapse in 2005, which did not affect his practice in Kentucky; the state does not require board certification. By Paul's estimate, about 50 or 60 doctors were certified by the NBO. The NBO was incorporated in 1999, but Paul allowed it to be dissolved in 2000 when he did not file the required paperwork with the Kentucky Secretary of State's office. He later recreated the board in 2005, but it was again dissolved in 2011.
tritsofme
(17,400 posts)"Osteopathy Apologists" - the OP simply displays his or her ignorance.
madaboutharry
(40,221 posts)Give it up.
No one is being an apologist. Your posts are ignorant.
DOs practice 21st century medicine.
If Dr. Conley is being manipulated by Trump it is because of his character not his training.
Mike 03
(16,616 posts)customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)is both a DO and an MD, with her medical degree from MUSC in Charleston. She really got me turned around on my diabetes.
dalton99a
(81,599 posts)Another stupid thread
Crunchy Frog
(26,647 posts)flying_wahini
(6,659 posts)If you knew what I know.....
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)And I DO know first hand, so there.
flying_wahini
(6,659 posts)hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)and my guess is that you were a wonderful nurse. That doesn't stop you from being grossly ill-informed and quite frankly, bigoted towards osteopaths. Not sure your agenda, but there seems to be one.
Ms. Toad
(34,093 posts)the difference is far more based on the temperament and skill of the doctors than it is on which training path they took to become physicians.
I have had far more extremely negative experiences with MDs than with osteopaths - many of which are related to the osteopathic focus on the body as a system, rather than isolated parts. Looking at a condition as an isolated part can physicians who are too specialized to miss interrelated symptoms. I have fired 4 MDs, and 0 osteopaths largely due to incompetence.
My two favorite physicians both happen to be MDs, but their outlook is more akin to an osteopaths - including a vascular surgeon who knew more about my daughter's liver disease than her gastroneterologist did - and always asked me about it, in part becuase he knows that stress plays a role in disease management.
Liberty Belle
(9,535 posts)After an accident I saw various orthopedic specialists and other physicians, all of whom thought I just had whiplash taking a while to heal. Like almost a year.
The osteopath ordered nerve conduction studies, suspecting nerve damage, and he was right. He sent me to a neurosurgeon, but sadly it was too late for the surgical repair to work, since too much time had gone by while I relied on MDs who were arrogant jerks. I did have the surgery with only 50/50 odds and it failed.
I wish I'd seen the osteopath first, not last.
Trump just picks the worst of the worst in every profession, and this is no exception.
List left
(595 posts)Don't try to make Dr. Sean Conley's malfeasance a smear of Osteopathy.
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)and your point is idiotic, though I'm sure you happen to be a generally informed person, who simply has a lack of understanding of medical education in this country and why MD's and Osteopaths are and should be treated identically.
Towlie
(5,328 posts)The first two Osteopathic principles are
The body is a unit; a person is a unit of body, mind, and spirit.
The body is capable of self-regulation, self-healing, and health maintenance.
I see no reason to doubt that a doctor of osteopathy believes in the osteopathic principles, and those principles imply that what's in a patient's mind and/or spirit can steer the course of their illness, apparently even if it's a virus infection.
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)I'm not a DO, but my colleagues include both. And, I know firsthand their education has some benefits including an emphasis on thorough physical examination and medical history BEFORE jumping to costly scans, labs, and other high tech. If you talk to any older physician, MD, or DO, they will bemoan the lack of emphasis in current MD education. Hell, some don't even learn to auscultate the heart and lungs thoroughly using a stethoscope. The curricula of both programs have, in the past, shared and improved based on their differences. That is a good thing.
https://www.ama-assn.org/residents-students/preparing-medical-school/do-vs-md-how-much-does-medical-school-degree-type
Preparing for Medical School
DO vs. MD: How much does the medical school degree type matter?
Sep 26, 2019
Thumbnail
Brendan Murphy
News Writer
As you ponder medical school, you may be wondering, What is the difference between an MD and a DO? In the U.S. there are two types of degrees in which physicians can practice medicine: MDs, a doctor of medicine, or a DO, a doctor of osteopathic medicine.
FAQs about med school
Get answers to all your biggest questions about getting into medical school, the application process, the MCAT and more.
Learn More
The two degrees reflect different types of medical school training. MDs attend allopathic medical schools, while DOs attend osteopathic medical schools.
The similarities
About a quarter of U.S. medical students train at osteopathic medical schools. That number has grown significantly in recent years, with the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine reporting first year enrollment at osteopathic medical schools rising by more than 40% over the past decade.
In terms of the requirements to apply to MD and DO programs, the criteria is virtually the same, with both osteopathic and allopathic programs weighing grade-point average and Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores heavily. The curriculum is largely the same structure, with students in both types of programs typically spending much of their first two years in the classroom and the majority of their second two years of training in a clinical setting.
Single accreditation, residency training
In the past, residency programs for trainees from osteopathic and allopathic medical schools have generally matched with residency programs through separate processes.
Related Coverage
4 tips for choosing the right medical school
In an effort to simplify the graduate medical education (GME) accreditation system in the United States, the organizations that accredit GMEthe Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education and the American Osteopathic Association (AOA)are changing how they do things. By 2020, all DO programs will match through the same process.
Those changes also impact licensing. Going forward, most residency programs will accept the Comprehensive Osteopathic Medical Licensing Examination, in addition to the United States Medical Licensure Exam taken by MD graduates.
Mind, body, spirit
Historically, DO programs have touted their methods as more holistic. One aspect of that is the osteopathic manipulative treatment, defined by the AOA as a set of hands-on techniques used by osteopathic physicians ... to diagnose, treat, and prevent illness or injury.
Those skills typically mean that osteopathic medical students spend an additional 200-plus hours training on the musculoskeletal system in the curriculum.
If a student is somebody who really enjoys that patient-centered approach and really is of the mindset that medicine is a mind-body-spirit relationship, a DO program will serve them well, said John D. Schriner, PhD, associate dean for admissions and student affairs at Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine, one of 37 member schools of the AMAs Accelerating Change in Medical Education Consortium.
Most DOs choose primary care
While MDs and DOs will be fully entering the same residency match process for the first time in 2020, some programs have integrated to the National Resident Matching Programs Main Residency Match.
According to AOA 2018 figures, nearly 57% of DOs practice in primary care specialties: 31.9% are family physicians, 17.8% are internists and 6.8% are pediatricians.
By comparison, about 32% of active U.S. physicians with MD credentials practice in primary care specialties: 12.7% are family physicians or in general practice, 12.9% are internists, and 6.5% are pediatricians. That data comes from the Association of American Medical Colleges.
AMA Membership eligibility: (MD and DO are considered equivalent)
https://www.ama-assn.org/member-benefits/member-eligibility-dues/ama-membership-eligibility
Membership in the AMA is open to:
Physicians who possess the United States degree of doctor of medicine (MD) or doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO), or a recognized international equivalent.
Resident physicians who possess the United States degree of MD or DO, or a recognized international equivalent, and are serving in residencies or fellowships approved by the American College of Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).
Medical students enrolled in an educational program provided by a college of medicine or osteopathic medicine accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) or American Osteopathic Association (AOA) leading to the MD or DO degree. This includes those students who are on an approved sabbatical, provided that the student will be in good standing upon returning from the sabbatical.
And here is what Harrisons Principles of Internal Medicine, the long acknowledge "bible" of Internal Medicine (ask any physician--or only the MDs since that is so important to you-- has to say on the issue:
PART I INTRODUCTION TO CLINICAL MEDICINE
...
Osteopathic Medicine.
Founded in 1892 in the American heartland by the physician Andrew Taylor Still, osteopathic medicine was based originally on the belief that manipulation of soft tissue and bone can correct a wide range of diseases of the musculoskeletal and other organ systems. Over the ensuing century, osteopathy evolved progressively towards conventional (allopathic) medicine. Today, the training, practice, credentialing, licensure, and reimbursement of osteopathic physicians is virtually indistinguishable from those of allopathic physicians, with 4 years of osteopathic medical school followed by specialty and subspecialty training and certification by organizations such as the American Board of Internal Medicine. Some osteopathic physicians continue to practice spinal manipulation, primarily as a tool to address specific musculoskeletal complaints.
**A hat tip to dalton9a for reminding me of the above**
Ms. Toad
(34,093 posts)As to this particular physician - would condemn all MDs, based on the actions of Harold Bornstein, Stella Immanuel, or Ronny Jackson?
Do you really seriously believe he literally meant talking about an illness would change its course? If so, you're as gullible as most of Trump's supporters are.
In case I really have to say it - that is not a statement consistent with osteopathy.
Bad Thoughts
(2,534 posts)Conley knows that Trump is watching the presser, and he knows that if Conley is truthful, Trump will want to take more rash action.
kcr
(15,320 posts)I'm with you. Osteopaths are glorified chiropractics. But then again, there's no shortage of apologists for them either.
madaboutharry
(40,221 posts)The cardiologist who saved my mothers life is a DO.
You dont know what you are talking about.
kcr
(15,320 posts)I'm glad your neighbor is okay though.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,902 posts)They get exactly the same education as an MD with an emphasis on the body as an integrated unit, and with some training in manipulations, if they even do that any more.
It's like saying an attorney is only a glorified paralegal. Or an R.N. is a glorified nurse's aide.
kcr
(15,320 posts)They don't, so they aren't. Attorneys are JDs. Paralegals don't call themselves attorneys. No separate-but-same legal degree was created for law.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,902 posts)Please look it up. They are NOT any less educated or qualified than the MDs. It's just that their medical schools give them a degree with a different pair of letters after their name. Plus, they do internships in both osteopathic and allopathic hospitals.
Ms. Toad
(34,093 posts)People with JDs may be attorneys, providing they pass the licensing exam. People with a paralegal degree may not.
Paralegals and attorneys are different professions, with different rights and obligations as to their professions. Only JDs are licensed by the state to practice law after (in most states) passing the bar exam. This licensing exam is equivalent licensing process for physicians. Paralegals are not even eliible to take the bar exam.
In contrast, both osteopathic doctors (DOs) and allopathic doctors (MDs) may be physicians, providing they pass the licensing exam. In other words they are entering the SAME profession, which is not true for paralegals and JDs, since paralegals are not even eligible to become attorneys.
DOs and MDs pass the SAME licensing exams. Both MDs and DOs are physicians (same profession), with exactly the same rights and privileges to practice medicine in the jurisdicitons in which they are licensed.
The closest equivalent in law would be people who earned a degree from countries where law is practiced very differently than it is here. The have somewhat different training - but are (at least in some jurisdictions) permitted to sit for the bar exam and becomebecome attorneys - even though they have (in many instances) an MSL (Masters in the Study of Law). So even through their degree is different, they are entering the same profession by virtue of equivalent training and passing the licensing exam.
flying_wahini
(6,659 posts)dalton99a
(81,599 posts)Family Medicine/Pediatrics/Internal Medicine: 3 years
Emergency Medicine: 3-4 years
Neurology/Psychiatry/Dermatology/Anesthesiology/Ophthalmology/Ob-Gyn: 4 years
General Surgery/Orthopedic Surgery/Urology/Otolaryngology: 5 years
Gastroenterology/General Cardiology: 6 years
Neurosurgery: 7 years
Interventional Cardiology: 7 years
etc. etc.
(Med school is 4 years for both MDs and DOs)
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)kcr
(15,320 posts)DOs aren't MDs with a specialty tacked on, because their "specialty" is quackery. That's why they don't get to be M.Ds. I don't care if every other aspect of their training is the same.
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)kcr
(15,320 posts)hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)kcr
(15,320 posts)If you're ok with the manipulation stuff, fine. But don't hand wave it away and claim it makes no difference.
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)I don't intend to waste time arguing with those who refuse to be educated, so I'll leave it to others now.
kcr
(15,320 posts)hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)and you made my point for me.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,902 posts)They simply have additional training above and beyond what the MDs get. They do residencies. And all that other stuff.
In fact, if you were to go to a DO for some kind of treatment, if you didn't happen to see those letters after the name, you would have zero way of telling the person was not a regular MD, who I could say less trained because they don't get the other stuff the osteopaths get.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)This took me an incredibly short time to find. There are plenty.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I'm looking at the University of Michigan Medical Center because I'm from Michigan but you can find them all over
https://www.uofmhealth.org/profile/1314/wade-m-cooper-do
hlthe2b
(102,378 posts)I'm not a DO, but my colleagues include both. And, I know firsthand their education has some benefits including an emphasis on thorough physical examination and medical history BEFORE jumping to costly scans, labs, and other high tech. If you talk to any older physician, MD, or DO, they will bemoan the lack of emphasis in current MD education. Hell, some don't even learn to auscultate the heart and lungs thoroughly using a stethoscope. The curricula of both programs have, in the past, shared and improved based on their differences. That is a good thing.
https://www.ama-assn.org/residents-students/preparing-medical-school/do-vs-md-how-much-does-medical-school-degree-type
Preparing for Medical School
DO vs. MD: How much does the medical school degree type matter?
Sep 26, 2019
Thumbnail
Brendan Murphy
News Writer
As you ponder medical school, you may be wondering, What is the difference between an MD and a DO? In the U.S. there are two types of degrees in which physicians can practice medicine: MDs, a doctor of medicine, or a DO, a doctor of osteopathic medicine.
FAQs about med school
Get answers to all your biggest questions about getting into medical school, the application process, the MCAT and more.
Learn More
The two degrees reflect different types of medical school training. MDs attend allopathic medical schools, while DOs attend osteopathic medical schools.
The similarities
About a quarter of U.S. medical students train at osteopathic medical schools. That number has grown significantly in recent years, with the American Association of Colleges of Osteopathic Medicine reporting first year enrollment at osteopathic medical schools rising by more than 40% over the past decade.
In terms of the requirements to apply to MD and DO programs, the criteria is virtually the same, with both osteopathic and allopathic programs weighing grade-point average and Medical College Admission Test (MCAT) scores heavily. The curriculum is largely the same structure, with students in both types of programs typically spending much of their first two years in the classroom and the majority of their second two years of training in a clinical setting.
Single accreditation, residency training
In the past, residency programs for trainees from osteopathic and allopathic medical schools have generally matched with residency programs through separate processes.
Related Coverage
4 tips for choosing the right medical school
In an effort to simplify the graduate medical education (GME) accreditation system in the United States, the organizations that accredit GMEthe Accreditation Council for Graduate Medical Education and the American Osteopathic Association (AOA)are changing how they do things. By 2020, all DO programs will match through the same process.
Those changes also impact licensing. Going forward, most residency programs will accept the Comprehensive Osteopathic Medical Licensing Examination, in addition to the United States Medical Licensure Exam taken by MD graduates.
Mind, body, spirit
Historically, DO programs have touted their methods as more holistic. One aspect of that is the osteopathic manipulative treatment, defined by the AOA as a set of hands-on techniques used by osteopathic physicians ... to diagnose, treat, and prevent illness or injury.
Those skills typically mean that osteopathic medical students spend an additional 200-plus hours training on the musculoskeletal system in the curriculum.
If a student is somebody who really enjoys that patient-centered approach and really is of the mindset that medicine is a mind-body-spirit relationship, a DO program will serve them well, said John D. Schriner, PhD, associate dean for admissions and student affairs at Ohio University Heritage College of Osteopathic Medicine, one of 37 member schools of the AMAs Accelerating Change in Medical Education Consortium.
Most DOs choose primary care
While MDs and DOs will be fully entering the same residency match process for the first time in 2020, some programs have integrated to the National Resident Matching Programs Main Residency Match.
According to AOA 2018 figures, nearly 57% of DOs practice in primary care specialties: 31.9% are family physicians, 17.8% are internists and 6.8% are pediatricians.
By comparison, about 32% of active U.S. physicians with MD credentials practice in primary care specialties: 12.7% are family physicians or in general practice, 12.9% are internists, and 6.5% are pediatricians. That data comes from the Association of American Medical Colleges.
AMA Membership eligibility: (MD and DO are considered equivalent)
https://www.ama-assn.org/member-benefits/member-eligibility-dues/ama-membership-eligibility
Membership in the AMA is open to:
Physicians who possess the United States degree of doctor of medicine (MD) or doctor of osteopathic medicine (DO), or a recognized international equivalent.
Resident physicians who possess the United States degree of MD or DO, or a recognized international equivalent, and are serving in residencies or fellowships approved by the American College of Graduate Medical Education (ACGME) or the American Osteopathic Association (AOA).
Medical students enrolled in an educational program provided by a college of medicine or osteopathic medicine accredited by the Liaison Committee on Medical Education (LCME) or American Osteopathic Association (AOA) leading to the MD or DO degree. This includes those students who are on an approved sabbatical, provided that the student will be in good standing upon returning from the sabbatical.
And here is what Harrisons Principles of Internal Medicine, the long acknowledge "bible" of Internal Medicine (ask any physician--or only the MDs since that is so important to you-- has to say on the issue:
PART I INTRODUCTION TO CLINICAL MEDICINE
...
Osteopathic Medicine.
Founded in 1892 in the American heartland by the physician Andrew Taylor Still, osteopathic medicine was based originally on the belief that manipulation of soft tissue and bone can correct a wide range of diseases of the musculoskeletal and other organ systems. Over the ensuing century, osteopathy evolved progressively towards conventional (allopathic) medicine. Today, the training, practice, credentialing, licensure, and reimbursement of osteopathic physicians is virtually indistinguishable from those of allopathic physicians, with 4 years of osteopathic medical school followed by specialty and subspecialty training and certification by organizations such as the American Board of Internal Medicine. Some osteopathic physicians continue to practice spinal manipulation, primarily as a tool to address specific musculoskeletal complaints.
**A hat tip to dalton9a for reminding me of the above**
Hassin Bin Sober
(26,343 posts)Our family doctor when I was a kid was a DO. Im sure we used his office mostly out of convenience as it was a block from our house. He did all our vaccinations and treated all our childhood ailment and prescribed antibiotics and medicines. He treated my parents ailments as they aged and performed surgery for my dads skin cancer. One of my earliest childhood memories was that doctor and his giant vaccination needles.
I probably wouldnt seek out a DO but I wouldnt refuse one either if they were highly rated and the office was convenient.
kcr
(15,320 posts)Some nurses are allowed to prescribe medicine, for example. I've gone to a nurse practitioner and was happy with her care. I'm simply skeptical that DOs and MDs are the same for all the reasons I laid out. They're just like doctors except for the manipulation stuff doesn't cut it. People who either don't know or don't care about that difference may be perfectly happy with it and that's ok for them.
PoindexterOglethorpe
(25,902 posts)It's not "they are just like doctors" the ARE doctors. Period. They had the same medical training. You apparently cannot read those words and understand them.
Same training. Plus a bit more and a slightly different emphasis in some cases. They do residencies. The AMA thinks they are doctors. You are simply wrong to say they are not. Your reasons are invalid.
gollygee
(22,336 posts)I had one for years who did regular tests, prescribed regular medicine, made sure I got any needed shots, etc. They do the same as any other doctor. You obviously haven't gone to one.
Ms. Toad
(34,093 posts)Our current famliy doctor is an osteopath. We've had both MDs and osteopathsin the past - the four physicians I've had to fire for incompetence were all MDs.
My spouse is on about 20 medications, I'm on 3 that he prescribed.He pushes more medicine than I'm wiling to take (his current push is for statins). We discuss (and he encourages) vaccines at every visit. He is licensed to prescribe everything an MD is licensed to prescribe - including narcotics. He has admitting privilege to several local hospitals.
The Clevleand Clinic employs a significant number of osteopaths, in a variety if specialties.
n 20 years of care for 3 members of our family, our family doctor has performed exactly one manipulation - for a back injury.
I'm really appalled at the lack of knowledge of DU as to osteopathic doctors.
yardwork
(61,712 posts)JHB
(37,162 posts)...might know more than you do. Or maybe you'd rather go tilt at windmills.
I don't know why you're on this bonkers crusade, but your frame of reference is at least out of date, if not total fantasy.
I, like others who have responded to you, had an OD as my PCP for over 20 years, and it didn't involve any herbal stuff not any quack nostrums. When he retired, the doctor he recommended me to was (and is) an MD, and his care has been indistinguishable from the OD's.
Stop pretending you know more than everybody else.
dalton99a
(81,599 posts)ODs go to optometry school, not med school
Yeah, more confusion. Good thing they don't work in the same office
JHB
(37,162 posts)I know which one is more forgivable.
pnwmom
(108,995 posts)GusBob
(7,286 posts)I feel I am wasting my time. But here goes
I have testified in lawsuits for the plaintiffs 3 times against medical doctors in malpractice negligent cases.
In each case my testimony has lead to judgements or settlements for the plaintiffs
This always comes up: you are not an MD, so how can you be qualified to give an opinion.? That would be the stupid lawyer for the stupid MD setting up the softball question which I always knock out of the park
Through my education, training and my experience I was able to make the diagnosis that was textbook care that the other provider missed
In one case 4 M.D. ' S and one DMD blew the diagnoses. The stupid stupid stupid lawyer goes:
You mean to tell me that you, a person without a medical degree made the proper diagnosis.?
Yes counselor that is why I am testifying, it was a clear cut case.
NNguyenMD
(1,259 posts)There is quite an old boys club in American Physician subculture and unfortunately at the expense of DO physician graduates.
In the US, you can go to medical school at an Allopathic School or an Osteopathic School. Up until maybe 2000, the vast majority of US Medical School graduates were from allopathic medical colleges. That number has more parity now.
American Allopathic medical Colleges up until recently are older, more established, are backed by major universities and supported but large university hospitals. So they are generally more prestigious places to go to medical school, the Harvards, University of Michigan, UCLA, Stanford medical schools are all allopathic. More prestigious schools attract more competitive applicants and are generally harder to get into than Osteopathic schools.
Osteopathic colleges have always been fewer in number, although recently growing, and to be perfectly honest, compete for a less competitive tier of applicants. The top tier college graduates who want to go into medicine, largely want to go to the schools like Northwestern, Dukes, Emory medical schools. And the reason is the same reason you want to go to undergrad at these places, the opportunities that await you when you graduate can be so much better if you do well.
So the stereotype amongst physicians has been, "you are a DO so you were a less competitive applicant for medical school than the MD of the same years of training" It's an open secret amongst residency program directors that if your program has many DO graduates in it, the you are a lower tier program for your specialty.
In practice, and as far as patient care goes, none of this is true, and it's a horrible culture amongst doctors that needs to end. I have worked in many teaching hospitals and I can say that it does not matter if you are MD or DO, a good doctor who is going to fight for you because they are good doctors, and lazy doc who doesn't give a shit can easily be an MD as they can be a DO.
I used to work in Portland OR, and rotated at the big University hospital where the residents were MDs, and they were very good at their work. And I also rotated at the hospital downtown where the residents were almost all DOs. I thought the residents downtown were significantly more skilled and confident, not because they were DO but because they had much more independence and experience working in a busier city hospital than in the University.
I will say that I have heard as many concerning comments from Dr.Conley and I have heard from his MD colleagues in Pulmonary Dr.Dooley and Dr.Garabhaldi, who is from John's Hopkins btw