The legal reckoning awaiting Donald Trump if he loses the election

[dalton99a]

https://www.cnn.com/2020/10/17/politics/trump-election-legal-reckoning/index.html

The legal reckoning awaiting Donald Trump if he loses the election
By Kara Scannell and Erica Orden, CNN
Updated 7:43 AM ET, Sat October 17, 2020

New York (CNN) If things don't go Donald Trump's way on Election Day, the President may face more serious matters than how to pack up the West Wing.

Without some of the protections afforded him by the presidency, Trump will become vulnerable to multiple investigations looking into possible fraud in his financial business dealings as a private citizen -- both as an individual and through his company. He faces defamation lawsuits sparked by his denials of accusations made by women who have alleged he assaulted them, including E. Jean Carroll, the former magazine columnist who has accused him of rape. And then there are claims he corrupted the presidency for his personal profits.

As President, Trump has been able to block and delay several of these investigations and lawsuits -- including a yearlong fight over a subpoena for his tax returns -- in part because of his official position. Many of those matters have wound through the courts and will come to a head whether he is reelected or not.

But with the polls showing that Democratic rival Joe Biden is leading in the race, the stakes become much higher for Trump if he loses the election. A raft of legal issues, including a criminal investigation by New York prosecutors, will come into focus in the weeks after Election Day.

"In every regard, his leaving office makes it easier for prosecutors and plaintiffs in civil cases to pursue their cases against him," said Harry Sandick, a former federal prosecutor in the Manhattan US attorney's office. "For example, he is claiming a higher protection from subpoenas in the criminal cases and also in the congressional subpoena cases, [and that] is based largely on the fact that he is President."

Some have suggested a formal apparatus for investigating Trump after he leaves office. Rep. Eric Swalwell, a California Democrat, has floated the creation of a "Presidential Crimes Commission," made up of independent prosecutors who can examine "those who enabled a corrupt president," as he put it in an August tweet. "Example 1: Sabotaging the mail to win an election."

[RainCaster]

1. To do list for January 20

1. Take his passport
2. Restrict his travel
3. Subpoena his books
4. Lather, rinse, repeat for all of his family and friends.

[empedocles]

3. and appointees.

[KS Toronado]

21. Would add ankle bracelet if he's not sitting in jail as a flight risk.

[RainCaster]

22. 24 hour SS protection can help with that

[NurseJackie]

25. He'll already be living in exile before then. Air Force One will be used as getaway transportation...

... they'll call it a "farewell tour" and one last official state visit to Russia. But he won't come home, and he'll GIVE to Putin all the technology aboard AF-1. ("I'll trade ya this plane for a place to stay.&quot

[wnylib]

35. Oh no. I had not thought about that

but I think it's possible. Anything is with Trump.

One thing is certain. He will do whatever he feels that he has to in order to evade charges. So the sky's the limit on what he might do.

Don't forget that if he leaves before Jan 20, Pence will pardon him.

[not_the_one]

38. We CAN NOT allow AIR FORCE 1 to fall into enemy hands. It must be shot down.

And I would be perfectly fine with that. Hopefully his entire family and entourage will be on board. Too bad we can't get every republican enabler on board, too.

I would opine, however, that he will use his own plane (skipping the inauguration), and no one will know until we get a "GREETINGS FROM SAUDI ARABIA" tweet, announcing his 2024 campaign for president.

[NurseJackie]

39. ...

I'd pay money to rent, own, or stream that movie!!!

[ancianita]

26. Indict him in the SDNY. Freeze all his accounts, US and foreign. Seize his properties, including

Mar-a-Lago and golf courses. Keep him detained in New York for trial since he's a self-admitted flight risk.

[wnylib]

36. But timing is everything. Can't indict him until

Last edited Sat Oct 17, 2020, 09:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Biden is sworn in because he will still be president until then. If he leaves the country before then, Pence will pardon him and he will be out of reach of the SDNY.

So how is the SDNY going to get him? He will transfer any cash and moveable assets out of the country before he leaves. Any assets left in the US can be frozen, though I am sure he will try to transfer ownership.

If he does not take his entire family with him, they can be served indictments for their roles. Also, his appointees and Congressional enablers.

[ancianita]

40. SDNY can't get him, but does have its case files on him.

FBI has 51 offices across the world. It has reach on behalf of any federal district. It has made hundreds of arrests related to one case across continents. So SDNY's case can be resolved.

It's true that right now an indictment won't proceed without an all-out fight. Hell, we've waited and watched the wheels of justice get systematically obstructed for four years. So we can take Biden's saying "no pardon," as a signal that even Trump's pardon trickeries will likely be nullified (not sure off the top of my head by whom). I doubt Trump would try to leave the country. I just don't think he'd have it in him.

I don't care how long all this takes, but I'm pretty sure we'll know Biden's intentions by who he appoints as AG. Once he does, I doubt Biden would openly say anything to influence what happens to Trump after that. The new AG would likely review sealed documents and SDNY cases pending, and decide with or without Biden's preference.

If Trump leaves, 16 Intel agencies can locate him, like they can other fugitives, notify Interpol, which isn't police, thus not able to arrest criminals; but Interpol can then issue a red notice across 196 countries, and though states are not obliged to follow these notices, they will often treat them as a warrant for someone's arrest and extradition in coordination with the FBI. It's not like many countries want Trump's presence, anyway. N. Korea, maybe.

The FBI and SDNY have been restrained (e.g., why Barr got rid of Berman on cases involving Trump and his henchmen), as Rosenstein did Mueller, but once a new AG is in, the indictment could likely proceed, perhaps even to a trial in absentia. For crimes committed in the financial center of the world, pardon or no pardon.

His kids, too. Where are they all going to go.

Do you see any other roadblocks to bringing Trump to justice if he loses?

I just don't see timing as an issue. The only roadblock I see is the Gerald Ford approach. I don't think any future Democratic president should be restrained to exonerate any past president's crimes. Not in these dangerous times.

(Sorry for my late response. I've been caring for an invalid husband today, and am a bit tired.)

[wnylib]

41. Well, I sure hope he can be traced

and brought into court once he is out of office, if he leaves the country. Agree that the AG that Biden appoints should not feel constrained by any pardon Pence might give. How can you pardon someone anyway without a trial and conviction? This came up when Ford pardoned Nixon, but nobody pursued it then. Trump is 100s of times worse than Nixon.

I do think he will want to leave the country. He looks out for himself no matter what it takes. I believe that he and his spawn are now consulting or already have consulted lawyers about their legal dangers of staying versus leaving. They have many contacts and ways of juggling cash and assets.

They would not be received by any traditional US ally, but there are other places they could go. If it means avoiding arrest and trials, they will do it. Maybe stay abroad to avoid arrest while battling indictments from abroad. They will do anything to avoid the consequences of their crimes.

[ancianita]

42. Oh, he'll be traced.

I hear you about his machinations. I take pleasure in knowing that for him, the worst thing about leaving is that he won't ever again have willing reality tv gullibles to cheer him. He'll miss his tv shows and sycophants and will be miserable no matter where he ends up. Yes, they'll do anything to avoid consequences, but once this government goes after him, other states will help, friend or foe, because one man is just not worth it. If we clear Nov 3, every single day he'll feel the net closing in.

[wnylib]

43. Good point about his need for

adoration. He would not get that in hiding. I remember a TV program from a few years ago. In a discussion between a remorseless convicted sociopath and the detective who had captured him, the sociopath bragged about how he would have a "captive" audience in prison. The detective told him that it had been arranged to put the sociopath in solitary to prevent him from perpetuating his crimes in prison. The scene ended with the sociopath screaming helplessly at the detective.

Did Trump really think he could remain president the rest of his life to avoid facing up to his crimes? Or that his brats could protect themselves by following in his footsteps?

[ancianita]

47. Re

your last two questions, I realize you're being ironic, but just want to share my thinking, anyway.

Yes, he did. It's the wealth immunity syndrome of suing and buying one's way out of social, business and political accountability -- the whole 'social contract.'

Anand Giridharadas' book "Winners Take All -- The Elite Charade of Changing the World," lays out the wealthy's self justifications (middle class work ethic, blah blah) for wealth inequality, and most important, the wealth churning, hoarding and asset scraping that the wealth class loves to deny, while they benefit as insiders from Trump and his NYSE marketer types. Armies of lawyers and security are always in "stand back and stand by" mode to help them scoff at regulation and the law.

The social contract fine print, though: you can run on a little while from your "mistakes," or claims of "stupidity," but you can't hide from the harm you do.

IF polled voters get to have a say about it.

[BComplex]

2. They also need to jail all those people who ignored congressional subpoenas, and they need to throw

Mnuchin in jail, and throw away the key, for not turning the tax returns over to the House.

This needs to be a public prosecution for the ages.

[moonscape]

4. There are going to be pardons for the ages n/t

[BadgerMom]

29. Not after Jan. 20.

[crickets]

24. Throw DeJoy in jail with Mnuchin. They can be bunkies. nt

[BComplex]

27. I hope so.

[Qutzupalotl]

5. I have truly lost count of the malfeasance and criminality.

If you include his whole administration, there have to be at least 2-3 scandals every week for over 3 years now.

Just off the top of my head, I know there are 10 instances of obstruction of justice outlined in the Mueller Report (5 of which include all the necessary evidence tied up in a bow); there’s the campaign finance crime he directed Cohen to commit, earning him the moniker Individual-1; and investigations for tax fraud and insurance fraud.

His behavior is so off-the-charts corrupt, there might not be statutes against it, like separating children from families at the border to deter immigration. That’s a crime against humanity, but I don’t know that there’s anything in the books to cover it. Or ignoring a freaking pandemic and prohibiting safety equipment from going to blue states to spite them. Then there’s the whole emoluments thing. Turns out there isn’t a good enforcement mechanism if Congress is corrupt too.

Okay, I’ll go read the article now.

[northoftheborder]

6. I think this idea of independent prosecutors for the Presidential Crimes is the way to go.

There are so many probable crimes to pursue it would tie up the state or federal attorney general's offices for years.

[Hotler]

7. Good! nt

[Bayard]

8. Saying he may leave the country if Biden wins

At one of his latest rallies. He's setting the scene.

[murielm99]

13. Who would take him?

I don't think Putin will want him any more after he has outlived his usefulness.

[bluecollar2]

23. Saudi Arabia

They took Idi Amin...

[sunonmars]

45. Nah, they will pretend he never existed.

[Tyfairbanks600]

9. There probably will be investigations after his presidency which will lead to arrests of underlings

I am almost 100% certain that Trump himself won’t be arrested, though.

I can’t believe that some people on here seriously think that a president will ever be arrested for a crime.

[wryter2000]

10. Make him regret the day

he and Melania ever took that escalator ride.

[ashredux]

11. What he said last night....

At his Georgia rally during his list of grievances...he said, “Could you imagine if I lose?... I’m not going to feel so good. Maybe I’ll have to leave the country, I don’t know.”

[royable]

12. With the thousands of investigations and prosecutions that will be spawned by the end of his reign,

he may indeed be a bigly jobs creator.

[infullview]

14. I'm worried they will sweep it under the rug again for the sake of political unity

Like Obama did with waterboarding. Trump and his minions must be prosecuted. Trump has an outstanding sealed federal indictment as individual #1 from the testimony and paper trail over his payments to Stephanie Clifford. If they don't handcuff that asshole and perp walk him from the White house to jail on Jan 20th I'm going to be extremely disappointed.

[Mr. Ected]

16. Hopefully we've learned that passivity will inevitably lead to future GOP crimes

Fool us once, shame on you.

Fool us twice, shame on you.

Fool us three times, shame on you.

Fool us now? Shame on us!

[Mr. Ected]

15. Since we have a for-profit criminal justice system in place

Trump may actually be able to break even financially if he and all his cronies are placed in prison. The residual income to the State will be tremendous!

[Hulk]

17. I just hope President Biden doesn't make the same mistake...

...President Obama made, in letting cheney and w off the hook for their deceit and lies that led us into an illegal war, and blew off their responsibility in the US becoming an openly war criminal nation.

I want this orange pile of shit to be held accountable for ALL of his crimes while in our White House, and open the floodgates for civil trials that have been held at bay until he leaves office for his crimes prior to fucking up our country for generations.

[CanonRay]

18. It's not just Presidential

It is virtually every cabinet appointee as well.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

19. Hence why he's threatening to leave the country if he loses

[BobTheSubgenius]

20. About January 15th...

...I expect him to make a sudden and unannounced trip to, oh...say Russia. If Moscow proves to be too cold in the winter, there are many other countries without an extradition treaty. The vast majority seem like poor choices, but oh well...

[Mr.Bill]

28. Since the Vice President has no official duties mandated in the constitution,

Kamala Harris can be in charge of this entire operation. She has all the qualifications and skills as a former AG, DA, and prosecutor. I can't help but hope that is part of the reason Biden picked her.

[sarcasmo]

30. Trump projected his intentions during the Georgia ramble. "If I lose I might leave the country."

[Tommymac]

31. He Thinks he can beat the legal system. After all, he has Bullied it for 40 years.

This is why I am not so worried that he will try and hold on to political power. His is a coward and a bully, and he knows he is out of his pond in the political world.

No - his ego will make him stick around and ignore and/or make fun of these 'legal' things.

He has consistently gamed the financial system all his life - why, in his narcissistic mind, would this be any different? He is swimming in home waters when financial cons are involved. Very Experienced.

Killer the bully is already showing signs he will back away from the cliff and not try to forcefully seize power when he loses - he thinks he will be able to run again in 2024, especially with the help of his own judges.

[byronius]

32. I hope they take all the Magats with them when they flee.

Really, best possible ending: Trump heads for a Russian-sponsored safe haven somewhere, and by his example and at his urging hundreds of thousands of his supporters sell their homes and apply for passports to various 'Trumpvilles' set up around the world where they can practice their libertarian lifestyles in complete freedom and plot the return of Dear Leader to power in the United States.

They'll all be dead inside of three years, most of them from product safety and food poisoning issues. (But they'll have died proudly for the Cause of Stupid.)

Back here at home -- the breeze wafts away the last spiritual stench of his dark legacy. History records his flight as final evidence of his treasonous nature, and American culture shifts completely away from these horrible years and turns to building a thoughtful, helpful, smarter, kinder light to lead humanity to a bright future.

It could happen. I'd like that ending.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

34. I absolutely love your vision!

I hope it all comes true.

[dawn5651]

33. 10k years in prison perhaps

[AnyFunctioningAdult]

37. He is going to "retire" to a country without an extradition treaty

He will have 2.5 months to plan and execute that. That is my guess on what will happen sadly.

[sunonmars]

44. I guarantee if he loses, he will have a fake health decline quicker than Harvey Weinstein.

[Buckeyeblue]

46. I don't see Trump being held accountable in Federal or State courts

I want him to be. I just don't see it happening. But I do think we will see his massive debt ruin his businesses.

I hope 2016 gets fully investigated. I want there to be no doubt that his presidency was illegitimate.

I also think that Biden should publicly ask Gorsuch to resign. He should say that the Senate obstructed Obama's nominee.

And while Gorsuch will not resign, I think it sets the foundation that the SC was illegitimately reshaped, that the court does not reflect the will of the majority. I would use those words. Biden should take such a strong stand against the SC that they will feel pressure to be abundantly fair.