What Shocked Lincoln Project co-founder Ron Steslow.

[My Pet Orangutan]

(I don't think anyone at DU will be the slightest bit surprised)

Early on, at the start of the Lincoln Project, I was home with having a conversation with a family friend. She's conservative and pro-life. And we were, you know, discussing the upcoming election. She was planning on voting for Trump. [For her] it was all about the judges.

I asked her at the time, rhetorically, given all of the damage that Trump has done to the American system, whether she would be willing to trade democracy for autocracy or a theocracy, if it meant she got more of what she wanted, which was more conservative judges.

I asked rhetorically because I expected 'Well, obviously not'. But the answer she gave was, 'Oh. I'll have to think about that'. And that was, for me, an alarm. A really loud alarm. I was not expecting that, not from someone who is so, so thoughtful.

Transcribed from the Lincoln Project Podcast,
Crazy Uncle in Chief and the SCOYUS Nomination Hearing
https://www.stitcher.com/podcast/the-lincoln-project/e/78653894

'Thoughtful' (or not so thoughtful) religious fanatics are still fanatics, Ron.
66% of adults say they don't think the Supreme Court should overturn Roe v. Wade (Sept 2020)
https://www.nbcnews.com/politics/2020-election/poll-majority-adults-don-t-support-overturning-roe-v-wade-n1241269
It's not about 'trading away' democracy. It's about putting on a dog collar and hobnail boots.

[genxlib]

1. Don't know why this should be a shock to him

It was pretty fucking obvious to me all along.

It is no longer a hypothetical. When a minority Senate approves a Supreme Court nominee appointed by a minority President, they have already shown themselves "willing to trade democracy for autocracy"

[BComplex]

3. I know. The rest of us have known all along, the republican TYPE person doesn't see the bigger

picture. Almost ever. They certainly saw the bigger picture of a full court press to install all conservative judges, and to gerrymander the hell out of the USA. But those are small focus things, actually. They do not account for what those "conservative" FEDERALIST SOCIETY judges will eventually have the power to do to conservatives what they obviously do to liberals....take away your rights. The difference is the frog and the slow boil, and they don't identify with the frog at all when it's their side doing it.

That is what TLP still doesn't get about conservative thinking. It's short sighted.

[JI7]

2. It's about whiteness for these people.

[thucythucy]

7. Amen

[Marcuse]

30. We have a winner!

Historically, white supremacists have embraced the idea of white women being forced to have more babies but have opposed non-white women bearing more children.

Abortion is elemental to the “white genocide” conspiracy theory that defines modern white supremacist thought. They believe Jews are orchestrating an influx of non-white immigrants, who are taking over “white” societies, and feminists (also driven by Jews) are robbing white, male Americans of their rightful power, in part by encouraging white women to abort their fetuses.

White supremacists feel they have two ways to combat this demographic shift: advocate against non-white immigration, and advocate against white women having abortions. But given that restrictions on abortion affect all women – white and non-white – the new Alabama law presents white supremacists with a dilemma.

[link:https://www.adl.org/blog/white-supremacists-mixed-reactions-to-alabama-abortion-law-reflect-divide-on-issue|

[Laha]

39. Sometimes it's just stupidity

I had to cut contact with my brother because no matter how many times or how many ways I tried to explain to him that the people he supports do not support him back. Among other reasons. He is a mixed blood person on government benefits. He absolutely would not listen when I pointed out how they are actively trying to take away his financial support. Couldn't even see the racism on that side that means they actually hate him. I never had a high opinion of his intelligence in the first place, but the stupid became too much for me to take.

[CaptainTruth]

43. I'm convinced whiteness is an oversimplification. It's about superiority, in multiple ways.

I'm convinced its about white, rich, healthy, male, "Christian" superiority.

That means it's racial, economic, medical, gender, & religious superiority all rolled into one toxic mindset.

If you're not white they believe you're inferior & they're happy to let you die.

If you're poor they believe you're inferior & they're happy to let you die.

If you have medical problems (like "pre-existing conditions&quot they believe you're inferior & they're happy to let you die.

If you're female they believe you're inferior & they're happy to let you die (from complications of a forced pregnancy).

And if you're not "Christian" (their bastardized version of "Christian&quot they believe you're inferior & they're happy to let you die.

It's toxic superiority & it reminds me of the Nazis.

[Hugin]

4. This reminds me of the old joke about a couple in a bar...

One asks the other, "Would you sleep with me for a million dollars?"

The other replies, "Heck, yeah!"

The first says, "Would you sleep with me for one dollar?"

The other replies, "No way! What kind of person do you think I am?"

The first shoots back, "Well, we've already established what kind of person you are and now we're negotiating on the price."

[PatSeg]

5. What is most shocking

is I wasn't surprised by her response.

[BobTheSubgenius]

41. Nor was I.

That probably holds true for the majority on DU.

[Newest Reality]

6. Nope. Color me not suprised.

[Sherman A1]

8. What is shocking to me

Is that these supposedly bright bulbs 💡 running the Lincoln Project were shocked. It tells me that none of them are all that sharp.

[My Pet Orangutan]

12. Wilson is sharp, very sharp,

A dangerous man to have as an adversary. =

[JHB]

20. They're attack dogs, not bloodhounds

[My Pet Orangutan]

32. Mike Madrid is a data bloodhound.

They are some very good people working for them. Dangerous to underestimate them.

[woodsprite]

36. So we have to learn from them, for once Trump is out, they will be the ones fighting against us. nt

[Gothmog]

71. Stuart Stevenson was not totally surprised

Link to tweet

[Edwcraig]

9. "Conservative judges" is just code for anti-abortion

I have a political background in the South. I know from focus groups and polling that Republican passion issues are abortion and racism. That's it. Conservative is just code. We can defeat racism. Abortion is the passion issue that is our biggest challenge. Ignoring the propaganda from Republicans, we are not doing a good job of countering opposition. Saying "Right to Choose" to me is not a good message. In a Democracy, laws by design limit our ability to choose. Do we give those that do not wear a mask a "right to choose'. Saying Republicans ignore children after they are born, is also not enough. For many of these anti-abortion voters, two wrongs do not make a right. In my opinion, we need to say to this women that Democrats are not in favor of abortion. No one is in favor of abortion. Women who have an abortions are not in favor of abortion. It is a difficult and painful decision. We also need to recognize that anti-abortion voters have put this country on the brink of losing our Democracy. We better find a better way of dealing with this.

[Sherman A1]

10. Excellent points

The messaging of the Democratic Party too often falls short.

[bucolic_frolic]

14. It's about using the law to control, coerce, and punish the free choice of others

does that sort of fit?

[TigressDem]

21. Laws on people's bodies/minds/choices acceptable BUT keep away from my GUNS???

EVERYTHING THEY LEGISLATE MAKES PEOPLE LESS FREE AND MORE ANGRY, but let them have their guns.


How could anything go wrong in THAT scenario?

[bucolic_frolic]

33. I doubt Native Americans are surprised

You either went Christian or were slaughtered. And you were dispossessed and often slaughtered anyway. While the Christians were on the baby train: extremely large families - 9, 12, 13, 14, 18. When #1 wife collapsed from exhaustion you quickly remarried to restart the factory.

[Mariana]

26. Anti-abortion and anti-LGBTQ.

Plenty of them are still in a white hot rage over marriage equality.

[radius777]

27. Bill Clinton's 'Safe, legal and rare' was the best messaging.

We need to stress that abortions are going to happen anyway, there is no 'outlawing abortion', only the outlawing of safe abortions.

'Pro-life' is pro coathanger.

[JI7]

28. They don't care about abortion either. It's race, not abortion

[wnylib]

29. Focus on 2 terms to define abortion positions.

pro choice or anti choice.

[LuvNewcastle]

31. Abortion is truly conservative.

It is a waste of resources to raise unwanted children, not to mention the fact that the population is increasing exponentially. It just doesn't make sense to force women to have children that we can't afford to take care of. It's cruel to the children, too. A lot of them grow up knowing they're unwanted and they're often abused and deprived of the basics.

[csziggy]

38. That argument works for the fiscally conservatives

But today's Republicans are not fiscally conservative, they are socially conservatives - or to be accurate, socially regressive.

They have shown over and over that they do not care about keeping the deficit down, which is what fiscally conservatives would do. They gave that up with Reagan and the first Bush, doubled down with GW Bush, and burned the remains with Dolt45.

Now all they have left is their "Law and Order" bogus claims and trying to regress the country to some mythical past period where white men are the only ones in charge and persons of color and women "know their places."

You are right - it is a waste to produce unwanted children - but they don't care. They do not want to provide assistance to women with children and will moan about welfare mothers with hoards of children. Republicans don't care that their policies of denying reproductive education, birth control, and abortion - and that the natural consequences of unprotected sex led to all those children.

They just don't care - they'd rather complain and legislate against assistance programs than actually provide the education and protection to prevent them. They would rather block access to abortion for those women who know their best chance of getting out of a hole is to control the numbers of children they have than admit that even the best birth control does not work 100% of the time.

The bottom line is They. Do. Not. Care.

[LuvNewcastle]

40. I'm afraid it's just that simple.

They're Dominionists is what they are. They want a theocracy, I guess because that worked out so well for the Calvinists in Geneva. They know that at least half of Americans aren't going to go along with their shit, so they want to split the country up and have their own territory. It's scary as hell that they have as much power as they do, but they've been working toward this goal for many years, aided by people like Mitch McConnell, who are in it to gain power. They will keep at it until they're utterly defeated. You can't really compromise with them. You can't compromise with people who don't respect you and will deceive you in order to stab you in the back later and ultimately get what they want.

[csziggy]

53. So very true. nt

[BobTheSubgenius]

42. "Conservative" is always code.

Mostly a false claim of "conservative" when the reality is "regressive."

[OnDoutside]

60. I would love to see them asked what exactly they mean by conservative, and then tease it out. It's

an easy word to hide behind.

[JHB]

11. Perhaps she wasn't as thoughtful as you thought, Ron

Perhaps you weren't either, if you didn't notice this trend until Trump.

A lot of us liberals did, though. It wasn't a "stopped clock is right twice a day" thing, either. We paid attention to what your own side was after, even as you didn't.

[dalton99a]

15. +1

[bucolic_frolic]

13. It's not all about conservatism. It's all about the hatred.

I see hateful yard signs here and there. 'Losers and suckers' for their opponent. 'Jesus is my savior and Trump is my President.' And another I can't remember right now. It is an in-yer-face, rude, arrogant, self-superior arrogance. I am better than THEM. They need others to hate so they can feel better about their miserable selves.

On the flip side, I've seen 2 households ditch Trump signs for Biden.

[NewJeffCT]

16. A while back, David Frum had said

that if the choice was conservatism losing power or becoming an autocracy, most Republicans would choose the latter.

I'm paraphrasing, but it was something along those lines.

[TigressDem]

17. Is this how rational Jewish and Germans felt in the early days of Hitler?

Can see it slipping away, doing all we can to stop it, but seeing the way so many suck up the lies and believe them with all their hearts? Mind blown by the total disconnect from truth and reality.

I am a Christian. I believe in John 3:16 - For God so loved the WORLD....

It says THE World. The WHOLE World. No exceptions.

So HOW can any RATIONAL Christian elect a White Supremacist President and call themselves followers of Christ?

[Mariana]

25. Most Christian voters in the US must not be rational

since the majority of them did vote for Trump in 2016. His support hasn't waned all that much among Christians, either. He may well get the majority of them again this time.

[JI7]

37. Only white xtians.

[Mariana]

50. It was the majority of ALL Christian voters.

Yes, there are various subgroups of Christians who mostly voted for Biden. Nevertheless, the majority of Christian voters cast their ballots for Trump, and there's a good chance he'll get the majority of Christians' votes again.

[JI7]

55. that's because there are more white people. but among only blacks

hispanics and other non whites, most xtians support Democrats.

[Mariana]

58. Yes, of course you can separate out this and that group of Christians

who mostly vote for Democrats. I hope it won't be long before they outnumber Christians who vote Republican, but for the time being, they don't.

[JI7]

59. All xtians other than white ones mostly support democrats

[TigressDem]

74. Don't drink the koolaid. EVANGELICAL Christians are not ALL Christians.

See post 73 for fact check.

It's bad, but it's NOT as bad as people think AND many Christians have stepped away from the old school faiths. We still believe in Jesus, but not the religious machine that claims to speak for all of Christianity.

[Turin_C3PO]

45. A huge majority of black Christians support Democrats.

[Mariana]

51. Yes they do. Nevertheless, the majority of Christian voters overall

cast their ballots for Trump in 2016, and may very well do so again in 2020.

[JI7]

57. Majority of non white xtians support Democrats.

There are more white people so that's why overall numbers will show support for republicans .

But most of these white xtians that support Reoublicans are just racist.

[TigressDem]

75. ALSO how many people identify their religion when asked about how they voted?

HOW many Christians are just as embarrassed about the Evangelical Reich Wing and consider our faith and our vote not really anyone's business?

Though the people who vote for Trump jump up and down and proclaim it from the mountain top.

HOW many thinking Christians just don't want to be dragged into the mud with the crazies by participating in polls? I know I avoid them. I consider my vote and my support in various other ways more important. Maybe that needs to be something I examine.

MAYBE the better question is HOW do we find out how many Christians ACTUALLY DO SUPPORT BIDEN?

To just CEDE the Christian vote to someone who is about as ANTI-Christ as any historical figure can get, just doesn't sit right with me.

[TigressDem]

73. Actually "Christian" is bigger than the "Evangelicals" who voted in the 80th percentile for Trump

There are a LOT of rational Christians in the US, but the noisy, crazy ones supporting Trump are getting all the attention and acting as if they can speak for ALL Christians.

Hispanic Catholic for instance, voted around the same rate as Religiously Unaffiliated - 67/68% NOT FOR TRUMP.




SOURCE
https://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tank/2016/11/09/how-the-faithful-voted-a-preliminary-2016-analysis/

[Wounded Bear]

18. Republican Authoritarianism has been on the rise...

since at least Reagan, and probably since Nixon or before.

After all, most historians think that FDR saved capitalism from itself, since events like the Great Depression are where fascism and other forms of authoritarianism tend to take over. In times of crisis, people look for strong leadership. It's a good thing that Trump is such a fuckup. Some one a little bit more skilled in politics might have done even more damage. As it is, we have a better than even chance of ending his term this election.

[ToxMarz]

19. It's not really about what they would be willing to trade Democracy for: autocracy, theocracy

communism, fascism, Scientology. Fill in the blank.

It's would you be willing to trade Democracy for anything, damn the consequences, if YOU got what YOU want. F*$k everyone else

Malignant selfishness. They like to whitewash it claiming it's christianity and the bible told them too.

[Hotler]

22. Dominionists are stacking the courts. These people are bad people.

https://www.texasobserver.org/dominion-theology/

Dominionists believe that the civil laws laid down by the Old Testament (as distinct from the moral laws such as the Ten Commandments) should be enforced by reforming the U.S. legal system along theocratic lines
https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Dominionism

[Mr. Sparkle]

23. I have a hard time believing all your average republican wants is corporate judges.

This is what they are hearing on right wing hate radio and fox noise, and these sheepable are repeating it.

[LittleGirl]

34. Ding ding ding! Eom

[Act_of_Reparation]

24. Republican shocked to learn the Republican Party is full of Republicans.

Who knew?

[Sherman A1]

35. Precisely

Just boggles the mind.....

[Gothmog]

72. anthropologists of the shittiest human being on earth."

Link to tweet

[TexasBushwhacker]

44. His family friend would probably be shocked to know that abortions go UP during Republican administr

Most abortions are for financial reasons. The mother simply cannot afford another mouth to feed. Democrats take better care of the poor, and they fund Planned Parenthood and other healthcare programs that provide poor women with contraception.

[paleotn]

47. Explaining that to them...

is about as effective as explaining it to a stump. I know. I've tried. They really are that gone.

[TexasBushwhacker]

52. Oh, I know!

My boss's wife has a big "I'm Pro-Life" banner on her Facebook account. She says that pro-choice people want to allow abortions up UNTIL BIRTH.

Of course, the fact that well over 98.7% of abortions are done prior to 20 weeks 88% in the first trimester). As for those few that are performed after 20 weeks, they first have to find a doctor who will perform the abortion, in a state that allows them. That's not easy or cheap.

[paleotn]

46. One of my hopes from all this is...

American style fundigelicalism comes out of this so damaged its decline accelerates. It has already hit its high water mark and is receding, per relatively recent Pew research. Not fast enough in my mind. I hope hitching their wagons to an orange con man, thus showing their true nature, speeds its demise. Fundy religion is as dangerous to liberal democracy as communism ever was. It's a cancer. A disease. It needs to be eradicated.

[Pacifist Patriot]

48. Interesting. I had no idea he'd met my dumbass aunt.

[MyMission]

49. Shock, surprise, disbelief, wishful thinking...

I often feel disbelief that people support 45. I think Steslow's rhetorical question was a good one.
And the reply shocked him because he didn't realize how pervasive that idea has grown within the gop. He's part of the 10% remaining that don't blindly support the party. The rest have been brainwashed and indoctrinated.

I grew up in NYC, knew or heard about tRump before he went national, knew how creepy he was.
When he got elected I knew he was unfit, and was concerned about his self interests over those of the country. I saw his ability to influence. I notice how his supporters come from a few groups. Mean and crazy is a large part of his base to be found throughout his supporters. The Hateful, the insecure bullies or would be bullies or have been bullied is a large part. And the evangelicals, another large part. Mob mentality, cult 45 mentality has been obvious from 2016. Not that many, compared to the rest of us, but they make a lot of noise and carry guns

Knowing this, I'm still surprised at the fervor of support I see or read about.

This was posted here around the same time you started your thread.
Great photo of the house of a very supportive cult member.

https://www.democraticunderground.com/100214314800

[melman]

54. Are we still pretending LP aren't pro-Barrett?

That's nice.

[Hekate]

56. What in this post says "pro-Barrett" to you?

[George II]

61. I'm still waiting for The Lincoln Project to come out against kittens and puppies.

[Hekate]

62. I knooooow. Is this the point where I say "they're dead to me"?

[George II]

63. It's the right wing strategy, just like they're doing to Biden right now....

....if one doesn't come out against something (in the case of Biden deny that the laptop/email story is real) that means one agrees with it.

Funny how the horseshoe theory is confirmed over and over again.

[Gothmog]

66. I want to win and this strategy is designed to lose

I really am amused by the attacks on the Lincoln Project by some. I want to win and the Lincoln Project has some very effective ads For example=

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[Gothmog]

65. You were proven wrong on this silly claim on other threads

This claim was false when you asserted it on other threads and is still false. Do you tire of being wrong?
BTW, this ad is great

Link to tweet

[My Pet Orangutan]

67. What people forget is that the Lincoln Project is not just endorsing Joe Biden

in this campaign. By getting behind Democrats in winnable Senate races, it is (more or less) endorsing the Democratic Party itself.

[Gothmog]

68. The Lincoln Project may help flip contol of the Senate

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

Link to tweet

[My Pet Orangutan]

69. I get a little sentimental sometimes.

Mississippi is no gimme. The Lincoln Project are hard-headed guys and gals. So when they go in to support a candidate like Mike Espy, because he would be good for the Senate, and the nation, I feel better about politics.

[Gothmog]

70. Espy is a good man

That is a great reason to support hm

[MrsCoffee]

76. Are we still pretending you didn't try this already?

That’s nice.

[Gothmog]

64. trump supporters are scary

Link to tweet