Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 10:58 AM Jan 2012

Bush's Torture Lawyers Agree: Obama Is Mad With Power

Bush's Torture Lawyers Agree: Obama Is Mad With Power

—By Adam Serwer

President Barack Obama has finally done something that makes even the Bush administration attorneys who helped craft the legal rationales for torture, warrantless wiretapping, and indefinite detention tremble with fear: Last week, he made recess appointments to the National Labor Relations Board and the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau.

The Constitution allows for the president to appoint people to positions that normally require Senate confirmation while Congress isn't in session ("in recess" in Washington-speak). In an effort to prevent Obama from making those appointments while they're on break, Republicans in Congress have been forcing seconds-long "pro-forma" sessions featuring no actual work. Last week, the White House decided to make the appointments anyway.

David Addington, the former legal counsel to then-Vice President Dick Cheney who helped construct the legal justifications for Bush-era torture policies, argued the president had the "inherent" authority to ignore federal law when spying on American citizens, and put forth the novel view that the vice president's office is not a part of the executive branch and therefore not subject to congressional oversight, told the New York Times that Obama's recess appointments were "flabbergasting and, to be honest, a little chilling."

John Yoo, the former attorney with the Bush-era Office of Legal Counsel who suggested the president could order a child's testicles crushed, massacre a village of civilians or unilaterally suspend free speech in the event of a terrorist attack, also fears for the future of the republic if the president is able to bypass Senate procedural gimmicks meant to block recess appointments. At National Review, Yoo attacks Obama for his "abuse" of executive power in appointing Richard Cordray to head the CFPB.

- more -

http://motherjones.com/mojo/2012/01/bushs-torture-lawyers-agree-obama-mad-power



How Often Have Recent Presidents Made Recess Appointments?
President William J. Clinton made 139 recess appointments, 95 to full-time positions. President George W. Bush made 171 recess appointments, of which 99 were to full-time positions.2 As of December 8, 2011, President Barack Obama had made 28 recess appointments, all to full-time positions.

http://www.senate.gov/CRSReports/crs-publish.cfm?pid='0DP%2BP%5CW%3B%20P%20%20%0A





15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies
Bush's Torture Lawyers Agree: Obama Is Mad With Power (Original Post) ProSense Jan 2012 OP
criminals who are not prosecuted feel emboldened spanone Jan 2012 #1
They ProSense Jan 2012 #2
Show me the difference OnyxCollie Jan 2012 #6
Here: ProSense Jan 2012 #7
I just wanted you to show OnyxCollie Jan 2012 #9
Here's ProSense Jan 2012 #11
Parsing words does not excuse torture. OnyxCollie Jan 2012 #12
Actually, ProSense Jan 2012 #14
Completely rejecting torture? OnyxCollie Jan 2012 #15
Not to worry zipplewrath Jan 2012 #3
Yup. OnyxCollie Jan 2012 #5
IOKIYR HopeHoops Jan 2012 #4
Obviously. n/t ProSense Jan 2012 #8
This is the price you pay for not indicting the criminals right away. JackRiddler Jan 2012 #10
Overheard One Repug Saying - Obama Would Have Made More Recess Appointments Than Bush If We Didn't.. global1 Jan 2012 #13

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
7. Here:
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 11:42 AM
Jan 2012
ENDING TORTURE = Three Torches
  • Ordered an end to the use of torture and cruel, inhuman, and degrading treatment, withdrew
    flawed legal analysis used to justify torture and applied the Army Field Manual on interrogations
    government wide.
  • Abolished the CIA secret prisons.
  • Says that “waterboarding is torture” and “contrary to America’s traditions… contrary to our ideals.”
  • No reports of extraordinary rendition to torture or other cruelty under his administration.
  • Failed to hold those responsible for past torture and other cruelty accountable; has blocked
    alleged victims of torture from having their day in court.
http://www.aclulibertywatch.org/ALWCandidateReportCard.pdf



Strange you had to ask.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
9. I just wanted you to show
Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:14 PM
Jan 2012

Obama's violations of the Geneva Convention.

  • Says that “waterboarding is torture” and “contrary to America’s traditions… contrary to our ideals.”


  • CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment
    http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html

    Part I

    Article 1

    For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
    This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.


  • Failed to hold those responsible for past torture and other cruelty accountable; has blocked
    alleged victims of torture from having their day in court.


  • Article 4

    1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
    2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.

    Article 5

    1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:
    1. When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;
    2. When the alleged offender is a national of that State;
    3. When the victim was a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.
    2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in Paragraph 1 of this article.
    3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.

    Article 6

    1. Upon being satisfied, after an examination of information available to it, that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is present, shall take him into custody or take other legal measures to ensure his presence. The custody and other legal measures shall be as provided in the law of that State but may be continued only for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted.
    2. Such State shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
    3. Any person in custody pursuant to paragraph 1 of this article shall be assisted in communicating immediately with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national, or, if he is a stateless person, to the representative of the State where he usually resides.
    4. When a State, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody, it shall immediately notify the States referred to in article 5, paragraph 1, of the fact that such person is in custody and of the circumstances which warrant his detention. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 2 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the said State and shall indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.


    WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html

    MIAMI — It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:

    Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.



    US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

    6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.



    Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.

    US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

    4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.


    Article 9

    1. States Parties shall afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with civil proceedings brought in respect of any of the offences referred to in article 4, including the supply of all evidence at their disposal necessary for the proceedings.
    2. States Parties shall carry out their obligations under paragraph 1 of this article in conformity with any treaties on mutual judicial assistance that may exist between them.


    The US sent Abu Zabayda to Egypt to be tortured. The US sent Binyam Muhammed to Morocco to be tortured.

    Article 3

    No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler&quot or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
    For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.


    No prosecutions here, no prosecutions abroad.

    No difference between Obama and the Republicans when it comes to torture.

    ProSense

    (116,464 posts)
    11. Here's
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:29 PM
    Jan 2012

    "I just wanted you to show Obama's violations of the Geneva Convention."

    ...what you asked: "Show me the difference between Obama and the Republicans when it comes to torture. "

    Response: http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=147084




     

    OnyxCollie

    (9,958 posts)
    12. Parsing words does not excuse torture.
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:31 PM
    Jan 2012

    Thanks for playing, Prosense. You can take your coffee break now.

    ProSense

    (116,464 posts)
    14. Actually,
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:35 PM
    Jan 2012

    "Parsing words does not excuse torture."

    ..."parsing words" doesn't make supporting and carrying out torture = to completely rejecting torture.

     

    OnyxCollie

    (9,958 posts)
    15. Completely rejecting torture?
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:37 PM
    Jan 2012

    To completely reject torture would be to PROSECUTE those who did it.

    When is Bush et al. going on trial?

    On edit: I reread your post and it doesn't make any sense. YOU'RE the one parsing MY words to excuse torture.

    You're slipping Prosense. Better call your supervisor for support.

     

    OnyxCollie

    (9,958 posts)
    5. Yup.
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 11:33 AM
    Jan 2012

    Obama hearts Bush's torture lawyers.

    Obama called on the former general chairman of the RNC to stop Spain's investigation of US torture crimes.

    WikiLeaks: How U.S. tried to stop Spain's torture probe
    http://www.mcclatchydc.com/2010/12/25/105786/wikileaks-how-us-tried-to-stop.html

    MIAMI — It was three months into Barack Obama's presidency, and the administration -- under pressure to do something about alleged abuses in Bush-era interrogation policies -- turned to a Florida senator to deliver a sensitive message to Spain:

    Don't indict former President George W. Bush's legal brain trust for alleged torture in the treatment of war on terror detainees, warned Mel Martinez on one of his frequent trips to Madrid. Doing so would chill U.S.-Spanish relations.



    US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

    6. (C) As reported in SEPTEL, Senator Mel Martinez, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, met Acting FM Angel Lossada during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 15. Martinez and the Charge underscored that the prosecutions would not be understood or accepted in the U.S. and would have an enormous impact on the bilateral relationship. The Senator also asked if the GOS had thoroughly considered the source of the material on which the allegations were based to ensure the charges were not based on misinformation or factually wrong statements. Lossada responded that the GOS recognized all of the complications presented by universal jurisdiction, but that the independence of the judiciary and the process must be respected. The GOS would use all appropriate legal tools in the matter. While it did not have much margin to operate, the GOS would advise Conde Pumpido that the official administration position was that the GOS was "not in accord with the National Court." Lossada reiterated to Martinez that the executive branch of government could not close any judicial investigation and urged that this case not affect the overall relationship, adding that our interests were much broader, and that the universal jurisdiction case should not be viewed as a reflection of the GOS position.



    Judd Gregg, Obama's Republican nominee for Commerce secretary, didn't like the investigations either.

    US embassy cables: Don't pursue Guantánamo criminal case, says Spanish attorney general
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/202776?INTCMP=SRCH

    4. (C) As reported in REF A, Senator Judd Gregg, accompanied by the Charge d'Affaires, raised the issue with Luis Felipe Fernandez de la Pena, Director General Policy Director for North America and Europe during a visit to the Spanish MFA on April 13. Senator Gregg expressed his concern about the case. Fernandez de la Pena lamented this development, adding that judicial independence notwithstanding, the MFA disagreed with efforts to apply universal jurisdiction in such cases.



    Why the aversion? To protect Bushco, of course!

    US embassy cables: Spanish prosecutor weighs Guantánamo criminal case against US officials
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/us-embassy-cables-documents/200177

    The fact that this complaint targets former Administration legal officials may reflect a "stepping-stone" strategy designed to pave the way for complaints against even more senior officials.



    Eric Holder got the message.

    Holder Says He Will Not Permit the Criminalization of Policy Differences
    http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/story?id=7410267&page=1

    As lawmakers call for hearings and debate brews over forming commissions to examine the Bush administration's policies on harsh interrogation techniques, Attorney General Eric Holder confirmed to a House panel that intelligence officials who relied on legal advice from the Bush-era Justice Department would not be prosecuted.

    "Those intelligence community officials who acted reasonably and in good faith and in reliance on Department of Justice opinions are not going to be prosecuted,"
    he told members of a House Appropriations Subcommittee, reaffirming the White House sentiment. "It would not be fair, in my view, to bring such prosecutions."



    CIA Exhales: 99 Out of 101 Torture Cases Dropped
    http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06/cia-exhales-99-out-of-101-torture-cases-dropped/

    This is how one of the darkest chapters in U.S. counterterrorism ends: with practically every instance of suspected CIA torture dodging criminal scrutiny. It’s one of the greatest gifts the Justice Department could have given the CIA as David Petraeus takes over the agency.

    Over two years after Attorney General Eric Holder instructed a special prosecutor, John Durham, to “preliminar(ily) review” whether CIA interrogators unlawfully tortured detainees in their custody, Holder announced on Thursday afternoon that he’ll pursue criminal investigations in precisely two out of 101 cases of suspected detainee abuse. Some of them turned out not to have involved CIA officials after all. Both of the cases that move on to a criminal phase involved the “death in custody” of detainees, Holder said.

    But just because there’s a further criminal inquiry doesn’t necessarily mean there will be any charges brought against CIA officials involved in those deaths. If Holder’s decision on Thursday doesn’t actually end the Justice Department’s review of torture in CIA facilities, it brings it awfully close, as outgoing CIA Director Leon Panetta noted.

    “On this, my last day as Director, I welcome the news that the broader inquiries are behind us,” Panetta wrote to the CIA staff on Thursday. “We are now finally about to close this chapter of our Agency’s history.”


    CONVENTION AGAINST TORTURE
and Other Cruel, Inhuman or Degrading
Treatment or Punishment
    http://www.hrweb.org/legal/cat.html

    Part I

    Article 1

    For the purposes of this Convention, torture means any act by which severe pain or suffering, whether physical or mental, is intentionally inflicted on a person for such purposes as obtaining from him or a third person information or a confession, punishing him for an act he or a third person has committed or is suspected of having committed, or intimidating or coercing him or a third person, or for any reason based on discrimination of any kind, when such pain or suffering is inflicted by or at the instigation of or with the consent or acquiescence of a public official or other person acting in an official capacity. It does not include pain or suffering arising only from, inherent in or incidental to lawful sanctions.
    This article is without prejudice to any international instrument or national legislation which does or may contain provisions of wider application.

    Article 2

    Each State Party shall take effective legislative, administrative, judicial or other measures to prevent acts of torture in any territory under its jurisdiction.
    No exceptional circumstances whatsoever, whether a state of war or a threat or war, internal political instability or any other public emergency, may be invoked as a justification of torture.
    An order from a superior officer or a public authority may not be invoked as a justification of torture.

    Article 3

    No State Party shall expel, return ("refouler&quot or extradite a person to another State where there are substantial grounds for believing that he would be in danger of being subjected to torture.
    For the purpose of determining whether there are such grounds, the competent authorities shall take into account all relevant considerations including, where applicable, the existence in the State concerned of a consistent pattern of gross, flagrant or mass violations of human rights.

    Article 4

    1. Each State Party shall ensure that all acts of torture are offences under its criminal law. The same shall apply to an attempt to commit torture and to an act by any person which constitutes complicity or participation in torture.
    2. Each State Party shall make these offences punishable by appropriate penalties which take into account their grave nature.

    Article 5

    1. Each State Party shall take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over the offences referred to in article 4 in the following cases:
    1. When the offences are committed in any territory under its jurisdiction or on board a ship or aircraft registered in that State;
    2. When the alleged offender is a national of that State;
    3. When the victim was a national of that State if that State considers it appropriate.
    2. Each State Party shall likewise take such measures as may be necessary to establish its jurisdiction over such offences in cases where the alleged offender is present in any territory under its jurisdiction and it does not extradite him pursuant to article 8 to any of the States mentioned in Paragraph 1 of this article.
    3. This Convention does not exclude any criminal jurisdiction exercised in accordance with internal law.

    Article 6

    1. Upon being satisfied, after an examination of information available to it, that the circumstances so warrant, any State Party in whose territory a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is present, shall take him into custody or take other legal measures to ensure his presence. The custody and other legal measures shall be as provided in the law of that State but may be continued only for such time as is necessary to enable any criminal or extradition proceedings to be instituted.
    2. Such State shall immediately make a preliminary inquiry into the facts.
    3. Any person in custody pursuant to paragraph 1 of this article shall be assisted in communicating immediately with the nearest appropriate representative of the State of which he is a national, or, if he is a stateless person, to the representative of the State where he usually resides.
    4. When a State, pursuant to this article, has taken a person into custody, it shall immediately notify the States referred to in article 5, paragraph 1, of the fact that such person is in custody and of the circumstances which warrant his detention. The State which makes the preliminary inquiry contemplated in paragraph 2 of this article shall promptly report its findings to the said State and shall indicate whether it intends to exercise jurisdiction.

    Article 7

    1. The State Party in territory under whose jurisdiction a person alleged to have committed any offence referred to in article 4 is found, shall in the cases contemplated in article 5, if it does not extradite him, submit the case to its competent authorities for the purpose of prosecution.
    2. These authorities shall take their decision in the same manner as in the case of any ordinary offence of a serious nature under the law of that State. In the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 2, the standards of evidence required for prosecution and conviction shall in no way be less stringent than those which apply in the cases referred to in article 5, paragraph 1.
    3. Any person regarding whom proceedings are brought in connection with any of the offences referred to in article 4 shall be guaranteed fair treatment at all stages of the proceedings.

    Article 8

    1. The offences referred to in article 4 shall be deemed to be included as extraditable offences in any extradition treaty existing between States Parties. States Parties undertake to include such offences as extraditable offences in every extradition treaty to be concluded between them.
    2. If a State Party which makes extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty receives a request for extradition from another State Party with which it has no extradition treaty, it may consider this Convention as the legal basis for extradition in respect of such offenses. Extradition shall be subject to the other conditions provided by the law of the requested State.
    3. States Parties which do not make extradition conditional on the existence of a treaty shall recognize such offences as extraditable offences between themselves subject to the conditions provided by the law of the requested state.
    4. Such offences shall be treated, for the purpose of extradition between States Parties, as if they had been committed not only in the place in which they occurred but also in the territories of the States required to establish their jurisdiction in accordance with article 5, paragraph 1.

    Article 9

    1. States Parties shall afford one another the greatest measure of assistance in connection with civil proceedings brought in respect of any of the offences referred to in article 4, including the supply of all evidence at their disposal necessary for the proceedings.
    2. States Parties shall carry out their obligations under paragraph 1 of this article in conformity with any treaties on mutual judicial assistance that may exist between them.

    ...
     

    JackRiddler

    (24,979 posts)
    10. This is the price you pay for not indicting the criminals right away.
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:18 PM
    Jan 2012

    They set up a new shop, and plot how to make a comeback.

    Obama's right to appoint Cordray, wrong not to have started with Yoo's arrest as the first step in the criminal prosecution of a criminal regime.

    global1

    (25,278 posts)
    13. Overheard One Repug Saying - Obama Would Have Made More Recess Appointments Than Bush If We Didn't..
    Tue Jan 10, 2012, 12:32 PM
    Jan 2012

    block him.

    Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Bush's Torture Lawyers Ag...