Long-timers: What was the deal with the election in 2004

[silvershadow]

I clearly remember a big "conspiracy theory" (read: we were on to them) during the election, with either Cheney or Rove, et al having ties to the company that counted the votes or something...Was a tech firm, I can't remember the name, I think they were based out of Texas or New York? I know somebody knows...I would like the name of the firm, or some links to the salient discussions at that time. Thank you to whomever can help. I'm headed to bed, and I will check back in a few hours. Thanks again.

[dkf]

1. Diebold?

[brush]

53. I posted this a few days ago

Kerry dramatically closed the gap on Bush after the debates, partly because of a photo release of an apparently hidden electronic device under Bush's jacket during one of the debates that could have been feeding him answers (see photo here http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2012). Kerry delivered a strong performance as well. Also in Ohio, Robert Kennedy jr. documented many instances of voter suppression in democratic strongholds. Thousands waited for hours in lines in inner-city Cleveland at polling places that were purposely under supplied with voting machines. Many of those people never got to vote before the polls closed. There were many other instances of repug skullduggery that suppressed up to 350,000 dem votes that would have swung Ohio and thus the election in Kerry's favor. (http://www.thomhartmann.com/blog/2006/06/transcript-robert-f-kennedy-jr-stolen-2004-election-jun-02-2006) The Ohio Secretary of State, repug Kenneth Blackwell, who supervised the election, was also the state chairman of the Bush campaign, a huge conflict of interest to say the least. And do I even have to mention what a huge incentive to manipulate the final vote count Blackwell's chairmanship of the Bush campaign was. Can you say Diebold voting machines.

[blogslut]

2. Such a thready web and it's late

Here's a start:

http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php?title=Gwb43.com

[silvershadow]

9. Smarttech may have been it...I'm gonna do some digging on them later. Thank you! n/t

[YvonneCa]

24. Here's a...

...movie that summarizes 2004: http://www.johnennis.tv/


Not the best movie, but there is documentation for most of what it covers. 2004 was sad.

[Lasher]

3. Diebold.

Do a DU search on 2004 Diebold.

[Up2Late]

4. It was Diebold and they were out of Ohio.

Unfortunately, I still have to use those stupid machines, they are called the Diebold AccuVote TS and they are the reason Republicans control all of my state of Georgia now.

http://www.verifiedvoting.org/article.php?id=5163

These machines absolutely violate Georgia State laws because of the fact that they do not give any way to do a recount because they do not give any sort of paper trail, which makes a hand recount impossible.

I look forward to the day when these stupid machines are totally obsolete and have to be replaced with something that can't be tampered with electronically.

[LeftofObama]

5. Diebold

And if I remember correctly the CEO of Diebold said something to the effect that they were 100% committed to giving the election to bush*

[justgamma]

16. The owner was the head of the shrubs

re-election campaign in Ohio and guaranteed a win there for GW.

[B Calm]

6. Follow the paper trail.

Oh, but the voting machines don't give us a paper trail, never mind. . .

[Up2Late]

20. Exactly.

[SheilaT]

7. All I know is that I heard a lot of stories from

reliable people that those who had voted for W four years earlier were not about to vote for him this time. Story after story. And in contexts that seemed reliable.

I NEVER heard stories of those who'd voted for Gore in 2000 who were now planning to vote for W. Never.

So why, in the end, did Kerry lose? In actuality, it's clear the vote was stolen.

Back in the run-up to the 2004 election, I was in a discussion group of like-minded progressives, and was told that our side knew how to steal an election as well as the other side. My great regret was that I didn't call them on that. Even at the time I felt I was being given a load of horse manure. Not that what I might have said would have made a difference.

I think that in 2004 we were led to complacency, especially after Kerry secured the nomination. I was one of the Deniacs, one of the supporters of John Dean who felt utterly betrayed by what led to Kerry's nomination. Dean really transformed the party. And it is in a large part that people like me, the old Deniacs, who have held on, who have maintained the faith, who have hung in even when our preferred candidate has lost, we are the ones who carry on, who keep the faith, who hang in ther no matter what happens.

When Kerry secured the nomination I was heartsick. I knew that he was the wrong man to be running for the office of President. Oh, yes, he personally was an honorable man, one who had served honorably in Vietnam, and who had been an admirable defender of the world since then.

But I also knew that he had never sponsored any significant legislation in Congress. He'd done nothing aside from speaking out against the war in Vietnam. Personally, he was a genuinely admiral person. Politically, he was at best a cypher, at worst a patsy. And so the "Swift Vote Veterans" destroyed him. They were as despicable a group that has ever existed. But Kerry never came back at them as he should have He never really fought back.

For all his flaws, I think a President Kerry would have been a balm for this country. He would have ruled with the generosity, the magnanimity, the understanding of the needs of the disenfranchised that would have moved our country back to greatness.

But instead the election was stolen Bush got a second term, as horrifying as that was. John Kerry never got to be President. But maybe there is a redemption, a second chance. Barack Obama was elected in 2008. It looks as though he'll be re-elected this year. We can only hope for the best.

[rfranklin]

10. Ohio Secretary of State confirms 2004 election could have been stolen

In other words, Ohio's top election official has finally confirmed that the 2004 election could have been easily stolen.

Brunner's stunning findings apply to electronic voting machines used in 58 of Ohio's 88 counties, in addition to scanning devices and central tabulators used on paper ballots in much of the rest of the state.

....Blackwell, who was defeated in a 2006 race for the Ohio governorship, outsourced web hosting responsibilities for the 2004 vote count to a programming firm that also programmed the web site for the 2000 Bush-Cheney campaign. Blackwell's chosen host site for the state's vote count was in the basement of the Old Pioneer Bank Building in Chattanooga, Tennessee, where the servers for the Republican National Committee, and the Bush White House, were also located.

http://www.freepress.org/departments/display/19/2007/2920

[silvershadow]

8. Thanks so far guys...It's late and I'm tired. I know about Diebold, I was a trainer for those

machines in 2006. I am distinctly remembering something about Bushco having direct phone lines to somebody that was doing the counting. The nuggets that are barely in my mind are about a company called Gtech or Ptech or P something. I don't think it was Gtech, they were a lottery machine outfit (but could have been). I was thinking it started with a P. I will think of it maybe or find it hopefully. I want to do some reading about that, and I'd like to find the orignial threads from back then. Doggone it, it's so on the edge of my mind...

[Kurovski]

30. Ithink there was even a photo of the central office set up in the white house

then there is this from Bob Woodward

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Carville-is-a-Spy-for-Bush-by-M-J-Rosenberg-080828-906.html

[JI7]

11. the whole thing with Diebold actually came up before 2004 i think 2002 when Dems

lost pretty big.

[silvershadow]

12. That's what I was just thinking

I thought there was some scuttlebutt about the Texas ties to a company that was either a CIA front company or to the MIC, or Bushco. And might have been 02 when it started getting questioned.

[Up2Late]

22. That was our 2002 Georgia Election...

...the first major test run for the 2004 sElection. The Re-thugs took out our very popular, Senator Max Cleland, the state the legislature, first time in 130 years, I think, and the Governor's office from Democrat Roy Barnes, plus a lot more. Most of speculation as to what happened or why in this New York Times article is completely wrong, but the facts of who was selected is accurate. But I can tell you as a long time resident of this state, that the voter in Georgia don't just flip parties over night and this thing about Democrats turning against Barnes over the stupid flag issue is total BS!

The GEORGIA 2002 Election was the first BIG test as to how to steal an election with these E-voting machines. PERIOD!

http://www.nytimes.com/2002/11/10/us/2002-election-georgia-bush-s-push-eager-volunteers-big-turnout-led-georgia-sweep.html?pagewanted=all&src=pm

[dougolat]

13. here:

Last edited Sat Oct 6, 2012, 01:09 PM - Edit history (1)

[link:http://democraticunderground.com/101738391|1 hour film

][link:http://democratcunderground.com/1002894785|big post from Time For Change

[Kurovski]

32. The link is ...messed up

[LiberalAndProud]

14. ES&S and Sequoia are the other two vendors I remember from those days.

It looks to me like the threads can't be accessed right now -- a casualty of the changeover to DU3. Archives aren't available and active threads go back to 2008. I vaguely remember the episode you're talking about, but it's really fuzzy.

[silvershadow]

44. ES&S was the machine I trained on. n/t

[KansDem]

15. Warren County (OH) locked down the building where the votes were being counted

I thought it bizarre, but now suspect it was election fraud.

The Ohio Factor: Did Homeland Security and the FBI interfere With the Vote Count?

In Warren County, Ohio, election officials took a rather unprecedented action on November 2: They locked down the building where the votes were being tallied, blocking anyone from observing the vote counting process. President Bush won 72% of the vote in the county. We speak with the reporter who broke the story. [includes rush transcript]

Earlier this week on Democracy Now!, we reported on a story in Ohio’s Franklin County. In one precinct, 638 people cast ballots. Yet, George W Bush got 4,258 votes to John Kerry’s 260. In reality, Bush only received 365 votes. That means Bush got nearly 3,900 extra votes. And that was just in one small precinct. This in a state that Bush officially won by only 136,000 votes. Elections officials blamed electronic voting for the extra Bush votes.

Now, questions are being raised across the state of Ohio. In Cuyahoga County, Ohio, the County’s website shows its 29 precincts had more votes than voters. In fact, it wasn’t just a handful. It registered a whopping 93,000 more votes than voters. In Fairview Park, twelve miles west of downtown Cleveland, only 13,342 people were registered voters there, but they cast 18,472 votes.

Meanwhile, in Warren County, Ohio election officials took a rather unprecedented action on November 2. They locked down the building where the votes were being tallied, blocking anyone from observing the vote counting process. County officials said they took the action in response to a terror threat warning from the Department of Homeland Security and the FBI. County Commissioner Pat South said they were told by an FBI agent that the county was facing a level 10 security threat on a scale of 1 to 10. George Bush won 72% of the county’s more than 92,000 votes.

http://www.democracynow.org/2004/11/10/the_ohio_factor_did_homeland_security

Both the FBI and Homeland Security were unaware of any terror threat. From "Democracy Now!":

ERICA SOLVIG: They’re saying that they were not aware of any increased security risk in Warren County on Election Day. The county has declined to give us the agent’s name who told them this, because they haven’t talked to this agent–this is an FBI agent–anytime recently. But the Homeland Security officials that we have talked to in the area, as well as the FBI, are unaware of any increased security risk on Election Day. Again, the primary concern was being locked out of a public building on a night when the entire nation was watching, waiting for the results.

[proud2BlibKansan]

17. Kerry said he would contest the vote and then he didn't.

That's my strongest memory.

[Lydia Leftcoast]

19. Kerry conceded while people were still standing in line to vote in some places

I'd spent the entire day walking door to door in Minneapolis (and it was COLD, with snow on the ground) from 10AM to 8PM, with only a stop at campaign headquarters for a hot dog and a soft drink, and I was sitting in my living room, my feet still throbbing, when he conceded.

It seemed as if he didn't want the job as much as the rank-and-file Dems wanted to him to have it.

Furthermore, there was always something odd to me about Kerry winning the Iowa caucuses. I door-knocked in Iowa for Kucinich, and while I was not surprised that Kucinich came in fifth (that was what he predicted), I met NO ONE who supported Kerry. Edwards, yes. Gephardt, yes. Dean, yes. Even a few Kucinich supporters. But NO Kerry supporters. NO Kerry yard signs. Only for Edwards, Gephardt, and Dean.

[proud2BlibKansan]

26. I remember it being the middle of the night.

Went to bed knowing it was close and got up next morning to learn Kerry had conceded while we were sleeping.

[karynnj]

27. unless you lived in Hawaii - you remember it wrong

It was the next morning.

[karynnj]

28. Kerry conceded early the next day - so something is wrong with your memory.

He also did so only after the same experts who told Gore to unconcede in 2000 told him it was mathematically impossible for him to win - there were not enough uncounted votes left in Ohio - he was about 100,000 down. The greens still demanded a recount which barely moved the numbers - essentially proving the Democratic experts right.

As to Iowa, they were caucuses and 2 places were covered for hours on CSPAN - both went for Kerry - easily. As to your polling, it might be because of when you went out. Kerry was great meeting people one on one and he did that in late 2003 and early 2004.

I know people who canvassed for Kerry from the beginning - one observation they had was that they picked up many who were previously for someone else, but their "ones" remained with Kerry in very high - unusually high percentages.

[JNelson6563]

29. This. ^^^^

I couldn't believe how quickly Kerry conceded. I shouldn't have been surprised after he sold out for political reasons on the Iraq war but, none the less, after so many of us abandoned home and family to try and get him elected...I guess I expected at least more of an appearance of trying.

Julie--still trying to get rid of that bad taste...

[YvonneCa]

23. Did you know there was an...

...attempted recount?

[proud2BlibKansan]

25. There was??

[YvonneCa]

41. Yes. It was...

Last edited Sat Oct 6, 2012, 11:15 PM - Edit history (1)

...impossible to do because of the machines that were used in Ohio. Lawyers for the K/E campaign set out a criteria they wanted followed, but it was never done. SOS was GOP and Bush/Cheney chair for Ohio. Judicial system was dominated by GOP.

There was a lot of documentation done at the time that media barely covered. It was extremely sad.


Edited to add...seems there is some coverage of the general topic now. This from Charlie Rose on Bloomberg:

http://www.bloomberg.com/video/will-technology-cause-major-voting-meltdowns-ctbzS970QKOniVO3TDT87g.html

[Kurovski]

33. The Bobbsy Twins had something to do with it...

Mary and James


On page 344, Woodward describes the doings at the White House in the early morning hours of Wednesday, the day after the '04 election. The Bushies were worried that Kerry would dig in and fight. They needed the election wrapped up.

But, apparently, Kerry had decided not to concede. There were 250,000 outstanding ballots in Ohio.

So Kerry decides to fight. In fact, he considers going to Ohio to camp out with his voters until there is a recount. This is the last thing the White House needs, especially after Florida 2000.

So what happened?

James Carville gets on the phone with his wife, Mary Matalin, who is at the White House with Bush.
...more...

http://www.opednews.com/articles/Carville-is-a-Spy-for-Bush-by-M-J-Rosenberg-080828-906.html

[stlsaxman]

60. Kerry chose the lives of his family over the presidency.

i can think of no other reason he changed his mind so quickly and so absolutely about contesting the vote.

think about it- all it would take is a single senior senator to catch him alone in the cloakroom, touch his elbow and say "John- i'd consider the safety of my family if i were thinking about fighting this thing..." and turn and walk away.

What could Kerry do? nothing! Who could he tell about it? absolutely no one.

They took out Wellstone and Carnahan, right?

[Tippy]

18. Was watching the early returns Kerry was leading

Suddenly Bush shot way ahead...knew almost instantly the fix was in...

http://rawstory.com/news/2008/Republican_IT_consultant_subpoenaed_in_case_0929.html

[ailsagirl]

21. Here are some threads that should help

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=111664

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1109735

[marlakay]

31. Voting machines & Rove

They did excellent job convincing everyone that a hero was in fact not and that a flakey party boy was a hero!

If anything I think Obama team learned from his mistake and everything in 2007 & 2008 and since that has been thrown at them they attack back immediately. Kerry thought if he ignored and treated it like it was crap it would go away, but instead it got bigger & bigger and then he looked weak fighting after the fact.

[patrice]

34. 2004 was also the effect of th Help Amaerica Vote Act of 2002 which was the result of what

happened in 2000.

Sorry I can't put my mouse-click on some of the resources I saw in 2002 that, at least for the state of Missouri, showed some very interesting patterns of relationships between the state level commissions charged with the responsibilities of implementing HAVA and Republican party power structures, the sorts of power structures that you'd assume would not have been unique to Missouri.

[marions ghost]

38. this is a good resource, lots of history

http://www.bradblog.com/

[patrice]

40. Thanks!

[silvershadow]

45. This is exactly what I have been saying...

Connect the dots...2000 was a coup d'etat. For 8 miserable, illegitimate years we lived with the nightmare that followed. During those 8 years, we changed from voting the way we always had for decades, to this new, computerized system that is for the first time hackable. I don't like it. One bit. There is absolutely no need for it.

[patrice]

46. I think the idea of paper ballots, marked by hand and providing a receipt for the vote with

Last edited Sun Oct 7, 2012, 12:42 PM - Edit history (1)

an encrypted ID, to be counted in public on a wildly patriotic national voting holiday, which starts on a Friday and ends the following Tuesday, has appeal that reaches across party lines. plus we could make it fun. Anyone I suggest this idea to always expresses enthusiasm for it.

You'd think something as important as the vote would be worth the extra time and effort.

[silvershadow]

47. Great idea! Do you have a name for said holiday? Bet that would help spread the meme quickly...

I agree. I'd be willing to give up Columbus Day for that.

[patrice]

59. Should think about that. Imagine! walking into a counting site & presenting your receipt &

saying, "Show me my vote!"

[Kurovski]

35. Diebold voting machines can be hacked by remote control ...this is from2012

http://www.salon.com/2011/09/27/votinghack/

It could be one of the most disturbing e-voting machine hacks to date.

Voting machines used by as many as a quarter of American voters heading to the polls in 2012 can be hacked with just $10.50 in parts and an 8th grade science education, according to computer science and security experts at the Vulnerability Assessment Team at Argonne National Laboratory in Illinois. The experts say the newly developed hack could change voting results while leaving absolutely no trace of the manipulation behind.

“We believe these man-in-the-middle attacks are potentially possible on a wide variety of electronic voting machines,” said Roger Johnston, leader of the assessment team “We think we can do similar things on pretty much every electronic voting machine.”




..we really need to GOTV, we need an insane landslide to counter all the levels of ELECTION fraud. which is different from voter fraud.

[ecstatic]

36. The machines were shady, but ultimately, republicans won by disenfranchising

thousands of people in Ohio (I mean how many people can afford to wait in line for 9+ hours??).

[Poiuyt]

37. Here's all you need to know:

Robert F. Kennedy Jr. wrote a very well researched article for Rolling Stone that goes into great detail about the election was stolen. This is a must read for everyone interested in the topic:

Published on Thursday, June 1, 2006 by Rolling Stone magazine
Was the 2004 Election Stolen?
by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0601-34.htm

[Greybnk48]

39. There were so many irregularities, there's a * next to their names

i.e., Bush and Cheney, in the Congressional Record (something the Dems were to "polite" to do in 2000). John Conyers was and absolute hero in pushing for it to be historically recorded at the very least. So, it really wasn't a conspiracy "theory." There was enough evidence to make historical note that the election might well have been gamed. Therefore, it turned out to be a conspiracy fact.

[YvonneCa]

42. Again, not the best quality...

...film, but pretty accurate on the details. http://www.johnennis.tv/

[porphyrian]

43. Let's just not talk about that election. n/t

[silvershadow]

48. I know, right? Sorry. Trust me, I've been wanting to hang my flag in distress mode since

mid-December 2000, or at least since Jan. 20, 2001. People told me I was over-reacting. I thought the nightmare would be over with the election of President Kerry, whom I believe would have been a fine, decent, able, and honorable President. I was wrong.

[porphyrian]

49. Lots of us were wrong. It helps to have other hobbies. n/t

[redqueen]

50. You know those machines are still in use and very easily hacked, right?

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but your posts seem unbelievably dismissive, especially considering the topic.

[porphyrian]

52. Yes, I do know. I used to live in Tallahassee.

Ion Sancho helped prove it. I'm not intentionally being dismissive, but what behavior would you like me to exhibit? Should I wring my hands and post endlessly about our doom? Should I march on Diebold? Hunger strike? Flagellate? None of that has changed our use of those machines yet; in fact, there are more in use now than ever before.

Those machines will count most of the votes this election. The one in my district has already counted mine. What we can do this year, before Election Day, is vote and try to make sure others do the same. If we all vote, and all of the votes are counted, the President will win this election. Despite what the media wants to spin, this election is not close and it has to be closer than it is to steal it.

[redqueen]

54. Whatever you decide to do is up to you,

but why you'd tell someone else not to discuss it, or to find something amusing to do instead of discussing it, is beyond me.

[porphyrian]

55. Not everyone has a sense of humor. I won't hold it against you.

It is a little irritating to be lectured about it by an anonymous online poster, but I'll let it slide this time.

[redqueen]

56. wow

Ok

[porphyrian]

57. I'm sorry, did you not intend to lecture me or be otherwise offensive?

I'll take it back if you were innocent. I'm not a monster.

[cheriemedium59]

51. I volunteered for the Kerry/Edwards campaign and...

I remember paperless voting machines were invented (by right wing extremists)
and the final vote count in Ohio was questionable.

But the one thing that is imprinted in my mind is the 'Swift Boat' ads. John Kerry
did 3 terms in Vietnam and W was able to be bought out of going and they questioned
John Kerry and his service to our county. It still makes my blood boil!

[tjwash]

58. Kerry probably would have taken Ohio and the election had he fought for a recount

But...he folded faster than a cheap lawn chair and gave dubya the state and 4 more years. He was probably just doing his skull-n-bones brother a solid X(

To be honest..that was one of the worst ran campaigns ever by a D, and that's saying something.

[Kurovski]

61. Was the 2004 Election Stolen? by Robert F. Kennedy Jr.

Like many Americans, I spent the evening of the 2004 election watching the returns on television and wondering how the exit polls, which predicted an overwhelming victory for John Kerry, had gotten it so wrong. By midnight, the official tallies showed a decisive lead for George Bush -- and the next day, lacking enough legal evidence to contest the results, Kerry conceded. Republicans derided anyone who expressed doubts about Bush's victory as nut cases in ''tinfoil hats,'' while the national media, with few exceptions, did little to question the validity of the election. The Washington Post immediately dismissed allegations of fraud as ''conspiracy theories,''(1) and The New York Times declared that ''there is no evidence of vote theft or errors on a large scale.''(2)

But despite the media blackout, indications continued to emerge that something deeply troubling had taken place in 2004. Nearly half of the 6 million American voters living abroad(3) never received their ballots -- or received them too late to vote(4) -- after the Pentagon unaccountably shut down a state-of-the-art Web site used to file overseas registrations.(5) A consulting firm called Sproul & Associates, which was hired by the Republican National Committee to register voters in six battleground states,(6) was discovered shredding Democratic registrations.(7) In New Mexico, which was decided by 5,988 votes,(8) malfunctioning machines mysteriously failed to properly register a presidential vote on more than 20,000 ballots.(9) Nationwide, according to the federal commission charged with implementing election reforms, as many as 1 million ballots were spoiled by faulty voting equipment -- roughly one for every 100 cast.(10)

The reports were especially disturbing




http://www.commondreams.org/views06/0601-34.htm