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Tab

(11,093 posts)
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:06 PM Oct 2012

Unemployment figures don't always tell the whole story.

Although I'm employed now, I've spent plenty of time unemployed, believe me.

I grew up having been taught that if I do good, honest work, I'll keep my job. That was usually the case in my father's generation who would stay with the same company for 20 or so years, get a watch (supposedly) and a pension, as my parents taught me (although ironically, he was self-employed).

After graduating college, though, I was laid off from my first professional job after about 3 years. The company was losing some $15 million a year, and was dropping whole departments. This was in the late 80s; I was humiliated to have lost my job, even though it wasn't due to any perfidy on my part.

I don't believe I filed for unemployment. I equated that with welfare, and viewed it as an indictment that I was unable to find a job and was worthless scum.

I had been living with my parents and was unemployed for about 18 months, I think, then I got a job in another city. I moved and kept it for 2 1/2 to 3 years, then the company's sole client got bought out by another company, and we lost the contract and, therefore, there was no work for us, so the company closed, everyone scattered to the winds, and I was unemployed again. This time, I think I filed for unemployment. I had no choice, since I was living on my own at that time.

I was fortunate to get some contract work from my former company's former client. Over the next 12 years I grew this into a solid consulting company pulling in, at peak, $450k/year with a handful of employees. I personally was making $200k to $250k at the peak (although many years I had failed, and went through a bankruptcy at one point).

Then the tech industry bottomed out (dot-com crash). And I was unemployed again.

Unfortunately, I could not file for unemployment. Why? Because I was an "officer" of the company, even though we had no business, and also because I was still performing work in hopes to get a client - meaning, if the phone rang, which it didn't after 9/11, I would answer it. Thus, I was still "working".

Summary: If you're self-employed, you don't count on the list of those "looking for work". In other words, you're not in the statistics of the unemployed. And you don't need to run a company to fall into this - you could, as so many were during the dot-com boom, be a consultant or contractor. You'd work contracting jobs, going from one six-month assignment to the next. A lot of people did this - there was quite decent money to be made. However, being self-employed meant you didn't qualify for unemployment, and when the market collapsed, you were left without a safety net.

As an employer, I had to pay unemployment insurance for my employees. So, it's not necessarily welfare, insofar as it's an insurance pool in case I had to lay off people. People who are fired for cause (it depends on the state) or quit voluntarily may not qualify for unemployment.

The roles of people unemployed are higher than the percentages indicate. They don't count people who have fallen off the unemployment roles because their unemployment ran out. They don't count people who are underemployed - used to make $90k, but now are lucky to make $12/hour. They don't count contractors or otherwise self-employed. America has a rich history of self-employment, but if the economy tanks and you're unable to drum up enough business, you're SOL, but you're not technically "unemployed" and you're not in those numbers. They don't count the failed self-employed businesses. It sucks, but that's the case.

True unemployment is always higher than official unemployment. The unemployment "figures" only count those who might have qualified to begin with. So many in this country do not. The situation during the Bush years was far more dire than the numbers implied.

6 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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Unemployment figures don't always tell the whole story. (Original Post) Tab Oct 2012 OP
The BLS statistics are not based on unemployment claims. Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #1
The government numbers aren't based on "surveys". Tab Oct 2012 #3
Hmmm. Funny then that the BLS calls it the "household survey". Warren Stupidity Oct 2012 #4
Yes, you are correct, and still... Tab Oct 2012 #5
You make good points, in reality, the country has been in a 50 year employment decline. bluestate10 Oct 2012 #2
Technically I'm unemployeed right now DisabledAmerican Oct 2012 #6
 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
1. The BLS statistics are not based on unemployment claims.
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:10 PM
Oct 2012

The unemployment numbers are based on household surveys not unemployment clams.

Tab

(11,093 posts)
3. The government numbers aren't based on "surveys".
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:26 PM
Oct 2012

There may be numbers floating out there based on surveys, but the official numbers don't count people who have dropped off the roles becauses their unemployment ran out or didn't qualify. You'll find this caveat mentioned in many articles quoting the government numbers.
 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
4. Hmmm. Funny then that the BLS calls it the "household survey".
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:34 PM
Oct 2012
http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.nr0.htm

And actually there are two surveys, household and establishment, with the household survey being the more widely followed number as it covers more of the population, at the expense of being less accurate.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.faq.htm

Tab

(11,093 posts)
5. Yes, you are correct, and still...
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:21 PM
Oct 2012

I apologize, I did not realize they collected in that fashion for overall statistics, but still they count the underemployed and those still trying to work (but doing poorly) as employed (http://www.bls.gov/cps/faq.htm#Ques3), so the overall premise of what I wrote is still correct. As far as qualifying for unemployment, at least in my state, if you even so much as answered the phones in hope of an assignment, you were still actively participating in your self-employed job and didn't quality.

bluestate10

(10,942 posts)
2. You make good points, in reality, the country has been in a 50 year employment decline.
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 07:17 PM
Oct 2012

The decline started during the Nixon administration after we got competition from Japan. The only break in the decline was during the Clinton years where a new type of employment, high tech, produced high paying, real jobs.

 

DisabledAmerican

(452 posts)
6. Technically I'm unemployeed right now
Sun Oct 7, 2012, 08:29 PM
Oct 2012

I had a on the job injury. I was on the clock when it happen and everything. Their private insurance denied me my claim to stall things out. Then a Member of their management had me illegally suspended. My suspension was overturned to a verbal coaching and put on medical leave for 90 days. I'm still injured and I now have no health insurance because my company has stopped paying my health insurance. I have no money to pay for it myself because now I have no job. I can't collect unemployment because technically they haven't fired me YET even though I'll lose everything the place I live, my home, and my car.

I can't go collect Social security cause technically I'm still working. I can't file for unemployment cause I would have to calm I'm healthy enough to go back to work. The system sucks so much that people like me our best option is just to die before the system ever catches up to us. So I'm unemployed, but technically I'm not because my store won't meet the needs of placing me in a different job till I get better all because the Manager did a employer entrapment on me and held me hostage till the point I sad a swear word and you'll see my lawyers. Then he threaten to call the cops on me and say I'd be arrested.

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