Hypothetical - Was the plan to declare martial law after the VP,

[malaise]

the Speaker and others had been assassinated by his goons?

And then what?

[RocRizzo55]

1. I am certain that was it.

Then he could cancel the inauguration, and declare himself king.

[malaise]

6. Well the EC votes would not have been certified

so that part is certain in this hypothetical

[BumRushDaShow]

50. Grassley could have stepped in to do it anyway "for the record"

Doesn't have to be the VP and it's a Senate function to preside, so the Pro Tempore could do it.

[malaise]

52. At his age he would probably have had a heart attack

[BumRushDaShow]

57. LOL

He's too preserved and sour to buy the farm this soon...

I am glad he'll have to make way for someone his "junior" - Patrick Leahy - who at 80, will probably take over that Pro Tempore seat.

[malaise]

60. It's really time for the next generation to take over

Last edited Sat Jan 16, 2021, 03:09 PM - Edit history (1)

Seriously

[BumRushDaShow]

62. That position tends to be done by senority in the Senate

If Biden had still been in there, he would probably have had the seat if he wanted it (since he pre-dated even Leahy).

[csziggy]

79. And just think - Boebert is the next GOP generation

I'm not sure if that is terrifying or reassuring.

[malaise]

80. LOL

Well now that you put it that way

[Dustlawyer]

48. That is why they wanted their boys in Congress to slow things down, to give

the insurgents time to get there and get inside.

[myohmy2]

61. sure...

...and when it stumbled, 197 of them followed up by choosing authoritarianism over democracy to keep the ball rolling...

...wow...

[WheelWalker]

2. That's what I be thinking.

[Kid Berwyn]

3. GOP survivors lead the remains of Congress to pass new law...

...“enabling” martial law and giving Dump unlimited power.

Heil Bannon. Thanks, Putin.

[malaise]

7. Thank Flynn and

Stone as well

[Kid Berwyn]

11. Eternally.

“Rudy?”

[dewsgirl]

13. Don't forget Bannon as well, his finger prints are all over this.

[malaise]

15. Kid Berwyn mentioned Bannon and you are correct

[dewsgirl]

64. ....,

[wnylib]

46. Reichstag fire, American style.

[FreepFryer]

4. Yup. And a Capitol siege itself could have been reason enough if they'd successfully gotten the #s..

The Hail Mary endzone pass, with Proud Boys clearing and modeling behavior for the crowd, had a fraction of the crowd they really needed and wanted (1m was their propaganda wet dream) but it almost worked.

[lark]

49. This seems to be exactly what would have happened if the left had shown up to counter protest.

That was what drumpf was counting on, a total war on the streets and Pence, Pelosi taken out, martial law, overturn the election - dictator for life. Luckily none of that happened and drumpf and repugs are being exposed for the murderous insurrectionists that they are.

[wnylib]

59. All they needed was their "special forces" militia

Last edited Sat Jan 16, 2021, 01:03 PM - Edit history (1)

crew that came with protective armor, weapons, rappeling gear and knowledge of the locations of key offices. They missed their goal by a mere minute. One minute after Pence was hidden in a room by the SS, the mob broke into the Capitol. Thanks to the ones among the Capitol police who did not turn traitor but held off the mob as long as they could, and to one specific cop who led the mob astray, the SS had time to hide Pence and move Pelosi to a safe location. The rest of Congress and their staff and guests had time to hide behind barricaded doors. All with just one minute to spare.

Maybe there were too many people in the mob, making it hard for the specially trained crew to get through to their destinations.

If not for that minute, the terrorists might have found their targets and zip tied them for execution. Afterward, a bloodbath killing of Dems, followed by Trump declaring martial law and himself the sole "president, for life.

[FreepFryer]

63. I'm aware of that timeline and the supporting articles etc. the numbers for a siege weren't achieved

The size of the crowd would have advanced the timeline.

And we know there was a minute interval, but we have not confirmed that the seditionists that interval most closely refers to includes the zip tie/capture and kill suspects.

So I would say it’s more complex than that but I don’t disagree w ur assessment.

[wnylib]

73. When the mob broke through

to enter the Capitol, the National Guard was not present. If the insurrectionists had achieved their goal of taking captives and killing the targeted people, Trump could have sent in the Guard and used the state police offered from VA and MD to sieze control of government under a state of declared emergency and martial law.

The bombs and weapons caches that were discovered after Trump called off the insurrection could also have helped maintain DC in a state of siege.

For all we know, the Jan 6 coup plan might have included rounding up Congressional Drms and all Republucans who did not support the challenge of the EC votes to change their votes or die if the bombs were set off. Or just killing them en masse anyway, after key captives (Pence, Pelosi, and Schumer) were publicly executed.

In the shock, with no one able to speak out, the FBi unable to investigate, an ongoing hostage situation, and Trump still having Twitter and Facebook access, he could have called for more action around the country. Who would shut off his media access with hostage lives under threat? Who would organize, mobilize, and command any kind of countermoves with Trump remaining in control?

I think it all hinged on getting those hostages and it collapsed with the failure to do so. That failure allowed counter actions from the FBI, corporations, and Congress to restrain Trump and prepare for this week.

In the end, Trump gets an opening battle in a terrorist civil war to harrass the Biden administration. The RW terrorism threat is far from over and will take months to defeat. I have faith that it will be defeated and that Biden and his team can handle it, but for now the threat is strong, with insurrection supporters still hidden among the military, police, politicians, and everyday citizen traitors who think they are heroes defending what they are actually destroying. And we still can't discount foreign interference and cooperation with the seditionists.

[FreepFryer]

75. You lecture as if others don't know what you know. We do. (Nt)

[wnylib]

76. Sorry. Just thought I was responding

to a post that said the coup could not have succeeded due to insufficient numbers with my own belief that it could have succeeded with the same numbers if they had broken in just minutes earlier. I assume people here know the same things I do, but interpret them differently.

But if you took it as a lecture, then in the words of Roseanne Roseannadana, "Never mind."

[Hermit-The-Prog]

86. Thank you for taking time to give some very interesting reading.

You presented a plausible scenario matching known facts, IMO. Not lecturing at all.

[wnylib]

88. Thanks. My only intent was to

present my perspective using the known facts to back it up.

[DSandra]

83. I enjoyed reading it, and I already knew

[wnylib]

90. Thanks. Different people can have

different views of the same known facts, which, I guess is why we discuss them here even when everyone knows the same things.

[wishstar]

91. Good summation-thanks

[csziggy]

81. What odd is that I never saw video of the "special forces" insurrectionists

After the crowd entered the Capitol. Not a one of them ever showed on any of the videos I've seen. I have not tried to look at all thousand of videos now posted for the public so they may be on some of those.

I wonder where those guys went? I suspect they had a specific goal or goals and made a beeline to their target(s). It is essential that law enforcement find that out - if they don't already know.

[wnylib]

82. Yeah, they only appear in videos

from outside the building as they move through to the front of the crowd.

[kentuck]

5. You can bet there would have been no inauguration of Joe Biden.

There would have been too much danger and too much chaos.

[LPBBEAR]

8. Yes

That's exactly what I believe was the plan all along. Trump was going to sit on his fat ass watching the chaos on TV. Wait until Pelosi and Pence were assassinated and then ride in on his White (Power) Charger and declare Martial Law.

He still might try it.

[N_E_1 for Tennis]

9. Until that bastard is completely out...

of the White House, flown away somewhere out of D.C. ...IMO, nothing is off the table.

Not the time to let the guard down. I wouldn’t put it past them to try something then declare martial law “to protect the country”.

It’s not over till it’s over.

[malaise]

10. Too late for that

He is beyond damaged goods

[onenote]

12. As explained here previously, even what your suggesting would not allow martial law to be imposed

Trump might have tried, but he wouldn't be able to pull it off.

Folks have a misunderstanding of what martial law is an when it can be imposed:

The Supreme Court long ago explained what martial law is and the limits of its implementation under the Constitution:

Ex parte Milligan, 71 U.S. (4 Wall.) 2 (1866)

"If, in foreign invasion or civil war, the courts are actually closed, and it is impossible to administer criminal justice according to law, then, on the theatre of active military operations, where war really prevails, there is a necessity to furnish a substitute for the civil authority, thus overthrown, to preserve the safety of the army and society; and as no power is left but the military, it is allowed to govern by martial rule until the laws can have their free course. As necessity creates the rule, so it limits its duration; for, if this government is continued after the courts are reinstated, it is a gross usurpation of power. Martial rule can never exist where the courts are open, and in the proper and unobstructed exercise of their jurisdiction. It is also confined to the locality of actual war."

[malaise]

14. Thanks for this but I have a follow-up question

Could he have tried it in the short term before the courts ruled? And what would have been likely to happen while we waited for a ruling. I ask this because he didn't care what the courts said as he tried to steal the election. He shouted loudly that the judges were wrong.

[Captain Zero]

19. At one time he wanted to have military rerun the

Election in six states. I think that would have happened. Of course he would have had cherry-picked military to COUNT the votes, which of course would have resulted in him winning them all.

[malaise]

24. He literally told GA Secretary of State Brad Raffensperger that he should

select persons interested in changing the results to recount

[onenote]

38. He lost 60+ legal challenges, but you think it could have had the election re-run by the military.

Hmmm....

[malaise]

70. No you are correct

That was not going to happen

[Cozmo]

56. After much consideration, I fear that tRump's "go to" has always been the military

Look at their lack of response to the insurrection. All the insiders who were willing to turn on their country. And now tRump's exit with a planned celebrated at Andrew's AFB with a "flyover"? This is so scary and disgusting. If he gets a flyover I give up.

[onenote]

28. If he thought he could get away with it

why would he have even worried about having an excuse?

[gab13by13]

30. The courts? Trump don't need no stinking courts, he alone will decide.

[FreepFryer]

58. This. (Nt)

[Dustlawyer]

51. In the chaos I don't think it would have mattered whether he could legally declare

Marshall law, he would get on TV and do it. His henchmen in Congress would have backed him.

[onenote]

84. First.It's Martial Law. Second, if it didn't matter, why didn't he do it?

[bucolic_frolic]

16. The plan was chaos and go with the feeling!

After martial law, plunder! All laws suspended. Target assets - physical US government assets, the financial system. The stooges he installed as heads of agencies everywhere would be invaluable. Treasury plunder, and its control of banks and investment banks.

But the planning was poor, opportunistic, the operatives misfits of society and even their professions. This was the $1.98 Insurrection.

Of more concern today is the next rendition. I think there's a high probability of martial Pillow Guy law before Thursday. I don't know what that is.

I'm calling the Expected Coup. Is there a bookie taking bets? I need to get in on the action.

[empedocles]

22. Somethng like that

[exboyfil]

23. This showed our fatal flaw in the Constitution

That damn unlimited pardon power along with the insanely slow impeachment process (not to mention you only need 35 senators to go along with Presidential abuse of power). This means 18 states could effectively hold the country hostage.

[gab13by13]

31. The pardon power is vast but not unlimited,

it is being abused. Another job for Biden's administration to clean up.

[malaise]

25. Thoughtful

and scary

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. The Trump Whine Insurrection, I would call it. Inspired by the appellation you chose :) . . nt

[Turin_C3PO]

17. He may have tried

but I don’t think it would have been successful. Joe Biden still would take the oath on Jan. 20th.

[exboyfil]

18. Vote is never certified Biden and Harris do not get seated

With Pelosi dead Grassley becomes President or he steps aside for Pompeo (there is some argument about succession as well - the law says in goes to the Speaker and Pro Tem and then back to SecState, but some think this is unconstitutional and that succession stays in the Executive branch).

Pompeo will do whatever Trump wants.

[Captain Zero]

20. POMPEO was in on it. Always lurking high

In the chain of succession. It's no mistake his move from Defense to State moved him up two spots.

[BrightKnight]

21. Didn't Trump do something with an order to change succession for someone in DOD? nt

[obamanut2012]

26. No, and he would have zero authority to do so anyway

[exboyfil]

27. By law Cabinet Secretary line of succession is by order of when Department first established

[marble falls]

29. Pence was meant to be 'Horst Wessel' for the Trumpzies, and the Capital to be their Reichstag ...

... fire, thought so since the 6th.

And most importantly, his pretext for martial law.

[gab13by13]

32. Yes, the Capitol assault was the Reichstag fire most of us predicted.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

34. Nah, not assassination. They expected "antifa/blm" to show up, make trouble, start a huge DC race ri

... start a huge DC wide "race riot" with (they hope, expected) lots of looting. Then bring in martial law "because democracy is at risk from lawless mobs". Oops. Backfired bigtime.

It goes along with talk beforehand how "antifa/blm" were going to show up dressed as patriots and do a false flag operation. Right on cue, the whackos are claiming this was a false flag and saying, as they always do, "Trump supporters would never do things like that. We're all nice people!"

But everything they and their cult leader do is so amateurish. Plus they are so far into fantasy land and desperation at that point that they grasped at straws.

[gab13by13]

36. I'm not so sure,

What if backup did not arrive? The Senator from Maryland had to call the governor of Maryland to help in getting out the Guard. Did Mike Pence realize that the mob was coming for him with its chants, "Hang Pence?" Trump didn't help in calling out the Guard, Pence did. From what I hear, Pence came close to being captured.

It's a different ball game if no back up arrives.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

66. The backup was held back by design, delay, and obstruction. tRump is a psychopath.

By holding back backup and disarming the Capitol Police ahead of the rally or at least not taking the intell seriously and making sure they were fully armed, psychopath tRump thought he could get more of a spectacle.

He probably didn't directly order it. That's not the style of capos and dons.

He probably said something like what he said about putting arrestees into police cars: "Don't be so careful with their heads" (similar with that exact meaning).

So he could easily have said "It would be a shame if some people caught up in a mess were to die, but the goal is important, we have to win", and then go on a rant about "antifa/blm" burning down cities and other fantasies.

Sociopath tRump wanted an excuse, a Reichstag fire. The hard right is saying it IS / WAS that, blaming it all on "antifa/blm".

Psychopath tRump doesn't care a bit about Pence or just about anybody else, if it helps his cause (himself).

[malaise]

68. Not Senator - #2 in the House Steny Hoyer

[myohmy2]

37. hyothetical yes...

...we've allowed economic power to coalesce in the hands of a few...

...are we now surprised at the undemocratic political power they seek?

...

[OldBaldy1701E]

43. I would feel

that anyone who does not see this must be profiting by it. I wish I could post that scene from The Simpsons episode about tomacco. There is a bit in there with Homer and Lisa arguing about what to do about the tomacco. The last plant is sitting on the table. Lisa demands Homer destroy it. Homer goes into this tirade about how he is just one person and what can one person do? His responses are exactly what I have been hearing for decades about our economic disparity and how we are just stuck with it. Bullshit. We don't want to do anything about it, but there are things that can be done. Of course they require those two things that the Americans who 'have' cannot seem to find within themselves... sacrifice and effort. Oh well... once this pandemic is over, we can go back to letting the wealthy consolidate the wealth of the nation in their hands and then tell the rest of us how we have to work harder in an economy rigged against us.

[malaise]

78. Excellent point

This has got to be the end of neo-liberalism

[whistler162]

39. You over estimate Trump's jeniusnes

[malaise]

54. I see what you did there

[Buckeye_Democrat]

40. I'm no lawyer, but maybe it was feasible?

Knowing Republicans, they'd point to the Constitution and declare, "That means Biden isn't the President!"

"Tee hee! We once again used the law to carry out injustice and immorality!"

[Loubee]

41. It seems obvious at this point and

I hope the FBI zeroes in on witnesses to these conversations and turns them. This is a crime too heinous and consequential to overlook for the sake of avoiding the wrath of his vengeful followers.

[ashredux]

42. Look At Who was at the Capital and line of succession

It should be noted that the VP, Speaker of the House and President Pro Tempore of the Senate were all at the Capital.

Next inline would be MIKE POMPEO. HMMMM.....

[KS Toronado]

44. IF he was able to pull off a martial law coup on Jan 6th.........

Would his first order of business be to arrest all the rioters causing the mayhem?
Or would it be to rob Fort Knox to line his pockets since he's broke?

[kentuck]

45. That is such an insane thought that we don't want to think that it may be true?

Because insane people come up with insane thoughts.

[Roy Rolling]

47. What Next?

Free government pillows.

[BarbD]

53. Very good!

[malaise]

71. Not from that greed bunch

[Jon King]

55. Yes, the plan was to kill....

Thats why Trump did nothing and Pence later approved the national guard. The plan was to kill all the government they could then declare martial law. He does not think far ahead so what he would have tried next is unclear. Likely new elections run by his hand picked federal law enforcement and state legislatures.

Anyone who knows Trump absolutely knows this was what he would have done. I guarantee he is seething as he learn how close they came to success.

Something has Trump scared of prison and desperate, likely NY State charges.

[FreepFryer]

65. David Ignatius, WaPo, December 26, 2020

Until Biden’s win is certified, the U.S. remains vulnerable

David Ignatius
Washington Post
December 26, 2020

Not to be alarmist, but we should recognize that the United States will be in the danger zone until the formal certification of Joe Biden’s election victory on Jan. 6, because potential domestic and foreign turmoil could give President Trump an excuse to cling to power.

This threat, while unlikely to materialize, is concerning senior officials, including Republicans who have supported Trump in the past but believe he is now threatening to overstep the constitutional limits on his power. They described a multifaceted campaign by die-hard Trump supporters to use disruptions at home and perhaps threats abroad to advance his interests.

The big showdown is the Jan. 6 gathering of both houses of Congress to formally count the electoral college vote taken on Dec. 14, which Biden won 306 to 232. The certification should be a pro forma event, but a desperate Trump is demanding that House and Senate Republicans challenge the count and block this final, binding affirmation of Biden’s victory before Inauguration Day.

Trump’s last-ditch campaign will almost certainly fail in Congress. The greater danger is on the streets, where pro-Trump forces are already threatening chaos. A pro-Trump group called “Women for America First” has requested a permit for a Jan. 6 rally in Washington, and Trump is already beating the drum: “Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!”

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/2020/12/26/until-bidens-win-is-certified-us-remains-vulnerable/

[malaise]

72. He sure got that right

[MoonRiver]

67. Just horrifying!

Thank Dog we dodged THAT bullet, but the maniac still has 4 days to go.

[H2O Man]

74. Yes

[malaise]

87. Hey you

Well Dr Bandy Lee was and is correct.

[roamer65]

77. If he declared martial law, that would started the true revolution.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

85. Killakon Donnie's "plan" was his usual: Stir shit up and see what he can steal.

Putin's plan may have been different, but he wouldn't be likely to fully inform his Russiapublican puppets.

[Straw Man]

89. Exactly.

He isn't capable of "planning" more than one step at a time.

[Stinky The Clown]

92. And then what? An American Dictator For Life and the lives of his children