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Trivia challenge: name the Republican presidents who didn't leave with the country in a shambles (Original Post) Bucky Jan 2021 OP
Teddy Roosevelt? DBoon Jan 2021 #1
Ike? Of course, he made Nixon his veep, which was a bad legacy... dawg day Jan 2021 #2
True. But he didn't endorse Nixon in '60! hedda_foil Jan 2021 #6
ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm . . . Iliyah Jan 2021 #3
I'll take they aren't born yet for $2,000 Alex malaise Jan 2021 #4
Lincoln? Nt spooky3 Jan 2021 #5
well dsc Jan 2021 #7
Let's be clear about the "corruption" of President Grant alledged by the "reformers." NNadir Jan 2021 #13
Excellent Post ProfessorGAC Jan 2021 #15
Oh my! El Supremo Jan 2021 #16
Look there was a whole lot of people getting rich in his administration selling off parts of the dsc Jan 2021 #19
Thank you for offering your opinion but I reject trivializing a great man with silliness. NNadir Jan 2021 #22
Teddy and Ike El Supremo Jan 2021 #8
Ike was the best of the lot, to be sure Bucky Jan 2021 #20
Teddy, Eisenhower, Lincoln..no one of current times Thekaspervote Jan 2021 #9
endless loop of Jeopardy tune .... dweller Jan 2021 #10
Yesss! El Supremo Jan 2021 #12
Eisenhower and Calvin Coolidge Prof. Toru Tanaka Jan 2021 #11
The stock markets were in a false bubble. El Supremo Jan 2021 #14
IKE Hekate Jan 2021 #17
must be intermission ... dweller Jan 2021 #18
Sorry, my answer was getting windy & pedantic. So I cut it down to bullet points. Also: WandaVision Bucky Jan 2021 #21

dsc

(52,166 posts)
7. well
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:06 PM
Jan 2021

Lincoln (the war was won shortly before his death), Grant (yes there was corruption but otherwise he left the country OK), not sure about Harrison, Arthur, McKinley, T Roosevelt, Harding, and Coolidge, and finally Eisenhower and Nixon (again Harding, Nixon were both corrupt but the country was doing OK not great mind you but OK). I would even give Ford credit, though it was getting worse.

NNadir

(33,542 posts)
13. Let's be clear about the "corruption" of President Grant alledged by the "reformers."
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:29 PM
Jan 2021

Do you know who and what the "reformers" were?

They were white supremacists, that's who. They wanted an end to African American equality and they stopped at nothing to get it, calling Reconstruction "misguided" and "corrupt."

Grant was determined that what the Union won in the war not be lost in the peace, and while he held office, he saw to it, despite propaganda like "the bloody shirt" and other bullshit by racist ex-Confederates and Northern copperheads.

President Ulysses S. Grant was the last President until Lyndon Johnson to work actively and openly for the full rights of African Americans.

Although his Presidency was marked by genocidal warfare against Native Americans, he was the first President to begin to see and believe that Native Americans were human beings, subject to human rights, although he could not fully (or even partially) arrest the genocide politically.

He established, ably assisted by his Secretary of State, Hamilton Fish, the first International Arbitration, successfully defusing the lust for war against Britain by the United States.

Let's be clear on something. Without President U.S. Grant, there would be no United States as we know it today.

In 1875, President Grant pushed through the Civil Rights act of 1875, which guaranteed desegregated schools, transportation, and juries. In 1877, the law began to be ignored as part of the deal by which Rutherford B. Hayes became President and was declared unconstitutional in 1883,

I personally regard President Grant to be the 2nd most important President of the 19th century, after Lincoln, and the criminal tarnishing of his record after his retirement from office - after which he was feted around the world everywhere from Europe, to Egypt to China and Japan - is entirely an outgrowth of the coloring of history in White Supremacist terms.

The people of his time knew who he was. There is a reason that they built, by subscription, what remains the largest mausoleum in the United States.

He was, quite simply, an example of the best of what this country could offer; Trump, is an example of the worst.

ProfessorGAC

(65,168 posts)
15. Excellent Post
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:33 PM
Jan 2021

I've always believed his history book reputation was unwarranted.
You described outstanding reasons why that should not have happened!

dsc

(52,166 posts)
19. Look there was a whole lot of people getting rich in his administration selling off parts of the
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:57 PM
Jan 2021

government, that surely doesn't dismiss the good he did, but the corruption wasn't made up out of whole cloth. Without him, the nation would likely have been lost (though Sherman might have been able to win that war if Grant for some reason couldn't) and he did a lot of good, and would have done more good but for the Supreme Court in his presidency, but the corruption happened, it just plain did.

NNadir

(33,542 posts)
22. Thank you for offering your opinion but I reject trivializing a great man with silliness.
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 10:01 PM
Jan 2021

We could announce, quite rightly, that by furloughing soldiers in Indiana who could not vote in 1864 by absentee ballot, Lincoln corrupted the 1864 election but it's trivial.

Let me see if I have this right, the Whiskey ring should hold equal footing with putting down the 1871 insurrection by the Ku Klux Klan.

Correct?

Do people discount the 1965 Civil Rights act because Lyndon Johnson's friend and former attorney was Abe Fortas? (Isn't it wonderful how that paragon of decency, Richard Nixon, uncovered Fortas?)

There is very little doubt that Orville Babcock was a fairly shitty equivalent of the modern day Chief of Staff, and was probably corrupt, but this was the era (and error) of patronage - which Lincoln among others used judiciously - until smacked down by that all American luminary among Presidents, Chester A. Arthur, but, um, seriously? Seriously?

But let's see, does any of that outweigh active enforcement of the 14th amendment?

Smashing the Ku Klux Klan so thoroughly that it did come back until the 20th century?

Is it not clear that Jay Gould's effort to corner the Gold market collapsed entirely when Grant found out about it and flooded the market with US Gold? Corrupt?

How many convictions were obtained against members of Grant's cabinet?

Grant had a largely destroyed nation, torn by hatred, racism, violence, burned out cities, one crowd lusting for vengence, another lusting for revenge, an upended way of life, albeit rightly upended way of life that had provided vast American wealth on the backs of enslaved people, and what is that you take as important?

Not that the whole country was stitched together in a decidedly herculean task, that people who built this country with sweat and whips were finally according citizenship, although after Grant left the scene that citizenship was allowed to be eroded?

That the "corruption" was not, as you say, manufactured out of whole cloth? Was none of it "manufactured?"

It is not that Grant missed so much, but rather, given the strains of his office, the magnitude of his task and the incredible demands of his times it's that he missed so little in my opinion.

Grant was an essential President, one of the greatest ever to occupy the office of the Presidency, and all the pissing and whining in the world will not change that fact. It may be that he might have not had any scandals were he elected in lieu of Grant, but if in fact that great incorruptible force of the age, Horatio Seymour, who like many of his contemporaries refused to believe that African Americans were really human beings, had been elected to the office instead of Grant, or that magnificent splendid human being of pettifogging purity Horace Greeley in 1872, there is little doubt in my mind that the country would have disintegrated anew.

While it is true that Grant was better served (mostly) by his trusted subordinates in the Civil War who could act on his ideas and take strength from his courage (that includes the virulently racist Sherman), he was less well served by his subordinates has nothing to do with trivial details and everything to do with the measure of the task, frankly, no other single person was equipped to do after the assassination of Lincoln. No one else had the strength. No one else had the integrity and the courage.

There is a country because of Grant, not just General Grant, but President Grant as well.

Prof. Toru Tanaka

(1,982 posts)
11. Eisenhower and Calvin Coolidge
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:24 PM
Jan 2021

When Hoover took over from Coolidge in March 1929, the bull market was still climbing. But less than eight months later...

dweller

(23,661 posts)
18. must be intermission ...
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 08:49 PM
Jan 2021

How about a little standup ?

How do you keep an asshole in suspense ?
🤔

✌🏻

Bucky

(54,065 posts)
21. Sorry, my answer was getting windy & pedantic. So I cut it down to bullet points. Also: WandaVision
Tue Jan 19, 2021, 09:33 PM
Jan 2021

The utter trainwreckers were Hoover, Bush Sr for the economy, Dubya for the economy, the mismanaged non-optional war, and the mismanaged vanity war (in terms of long term impact, I'd still rate him as more damaging the country than Trump), and Trump, for ignoring a deadly disease and reviving fascism and giving it American roots.

Reagan did things that hurt our long-term capacity to cope with economic challenges, but didn't run the car off the road like all the subsequent Republicans. The problems his then-record deficits created (which are chicken feed compared to Bush & Trump's debt surges) were something that Clinton was able to manage and fix in one term. Reagan passed a strong enough economy onto Poppy Bush.

Harding left the government in shambles, but not the economy so much. And really, before FDR the president didn't really have much to say about lopsided consumer spending vs production output, which is the principal cause of the Great Crash of 29. It was more Coolidge's cuts to transportation infrastructure maintenance and slashes to pensions to the elderly and to veterans that made the country so vulnerable to the Depression that followed the Crash. But the principal hammer to the head that turned Crash into Depression was Hoover's tariff wars that spread the Depression from here to eternity (or at least around the globe).

In contrast really only two Democrats left the country worse than they found it--Carter for reasons mostly beyond his control, and Johnson for a war 80% of his own making. Johnson actually left the economy in pretty good shape; Carter did much to boost America's standing around the globe (though his gains were mostly of the long term type). Except for Johnson, Democrats are better an looking at the long term needs of the economy. That's cause, as gardners, we water the roots instead of the flowers.

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