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Seth Abramson: "Media: please *stop* pretending the constitutionality of a post-presidency (Original Post) triron Jan 2021 OP
They have to have something to screech about...the Peloton is a nonstarter. Ferrets are Cool Jan 2021 #1
Check out his "Proof" newsletter. A "no-B.S." missive from the heartland. RussellCattle Jan 2021 #2
Apparently not available to anybody not subscribed. triron Jan 2021 #5
Click the "read it first" link. ShazzieB Jan 2021 #10
Trump was impeached while still in office. Case closed... Wounded Bear Jan 2021 #3
+1 2naSalit Jan 2021 #4
This KentuckyWoman Jan 2021 #6
"Repubs know they're spouting bullshit" -- and so does the M$M tv. money money money Hermit-The-Prog Jan 2021 #14
Seth is often wrong, but this time he's not. CaptainTruth Jan 2021 #7
While I agree, I have to think Benedict Donald will drag it all the way to the Supreme Court groundloop Jan 2021 #8
Not their purview Claire Oh Nette Jan 2021 #12
Media thinking: don't want talk too much about his crime, so, Debate the process! That's the ticket! Bernardo de La Paz Jan 2021 #9
So true. Just because a Republican claims to question something... Beartracks Jan 2021 #11
Maybe they can tag one each on Reagan and Bush. Harker Jan 2021 #13
Here's something from a man who might have had some insight NotASurfer Jan 2021 #15
It doesn't matter whether it is constitutional for the Senate to try an impeached former president. onenote Jan 2021 #16
Well-explained. Laelth Jan 2021 #17
At the point after the Senate convicts, scipan Jan 2021 #18
If anyone wants to get into the weeds a bit: scipan Jan 2021 #19

ShazzieB

(16,406 posts)
10. Click the "read it first" link.
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 05:42 PM
Jan 2021

I think it's under the "subscribe" button. It doesn’t jump out at you, but it's there,

Wounded Bear

(58,660 posts)
3. Trump was impeached while still in office. Case closed...
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 04:08 PM
Jan 2021

holding the trial later is just process. While the "primary" purpose of impeachment is removal, an additional purpose is to preclude his running for federal office again. Repubs know they're spouting bullshit, but it's what they're used to and pretty good at. They're just wrong this time.

groundloop

(11,519 posts)
8. While I agree, I have to think Benedict Donald will drag it all the way to the Supreme Court
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 05:31 PM
Jan 2021

I'm positive Benedict Donald will drag this question all the way to the Supreme Court in an effort to hold onto his taxpayer funded perks.

Claire Oh Nette

(2,636 posts)
12. Not their purview
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 06:14 PM
Jan 2021

House has sole authority to Impeach elected officials.
Senate has sole authority to try impeached officials.

Supreme Court not an option.

Beartracks

(12,814 posts)
11. So true. Just because a Republican claims to question something...
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 05:51 PM
Jan 2021

... does not mean that the something is not, in fact, already a settled matter.

In other words: where there is smoke there is not always a fire. Sometimes the smoke is just being blown out someone's ass.

======

NotASurfer

(2,150 posts)
15. Here's something from a man who might have had some insight
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 08:00 PM
Jan 2021

John Quincy Adams - who would have learned from one of the actual Founding Fathers what they intended with their newfangled Constitution - said during debate in the House, where he served after his Presidency:


“I hold myself, so long as I have the breath of life in my body, amenable to impeachment by this House for everything I did during the time I held any public office.”

Clear statement that Impeachment was applicable for the rest of your life once you were elected, and broadly construed to include anything he did while President and in the House as a member of Congress.

onenote

(42,704 posts)
16. It doesn't matter whether it is constitutional for the Senate to try an impeached former president.
Sun Jan 24, 2021, 09:55 PM
Jan 2021

For the record, I think it is constitutional. But Abramson (as he often does) overstates things. First, notwithstanding his use of the plural "trials," to the best of my knowledge the Senate has conducted an impeachment trial of a former official only once:Secretary Belknap. Second, and more importantly, the fact that the Senate conducted that trial doesn't mean the issue of whether it is constitutional for an impeached official to be tried by the Senate after that official has left office isn't a "live" issue. A majority of the Senate voted against a motion that sought dismissal of the Belknap trial because had resigned. But that decision by the Senate didn't resolve the Constitutional issue. As Chief Justice Marshall declared "It is emphatically the province and duty of the judicial department to say what the law is." Or, as it sometimes is put: The Constitution means what the Supreme Court says it means." The Senate may have its view of the Constitutionality of the actions it takes -- indeed, the Senate presumably thinks any and every law that it passes is Constitutional. But we know that isn't always the case -- that the legislative branch's view of the Constitutionality of its actions isn't determinative of the issue. Only the Supreme Court's view is determinative (and only up until the time a subsequent court adopts a different interpretation or the Constitution is amended).

So the issue is still "live" since it's never been addressed by the Supreme Court. However, it also doesn't matter whether it is or isn't. Why? Because just as in the Belknap case, there is nothing to stop those members of the Senate who think that the Constitution doesn't permit an impeached official to be tried after leaving office from voting to acquit on those grounds, even if a majority disagrees. So if 48 republican senators vote to dismiss but that motion is defeated, they can still vote to acquit on those same grounds and there is nothing that can be done about it. The Supreme Court doesn't review impeachments and senators don't have to explain their votes to acquit or convict.

So in the end, republicans will try to justify their votes to acquit based on their contention that the trial isn't permitted by the Constitution. And while they can be pilloried for taking that position, there is nothing anyone can do about it.

scipan

(2,351 posts)
18. At the point after the Senate convicts,
Mon Jan 25, 2021, 04:48 PM
Jan 2021

the person convicted holds no office. Then the Senate decides to hold a vote on whether that person should be denied the right to ever hold office again.

It seems that if someone could stop that 2nd vote by resigning, then running for office again and being elected, it's not right. That can't be what the founders intended.

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