Al Franken is no longer a Senator.

[11 Bravo]

But RepubliQuans are currently lining up to defend treasonous, murder inciting, Jewish laser claimant, Marjorie Taylor Greene from being removed from not the House, but just her committee assignments.

Perhaps we shouldn't always eat our own.

Al was a great Senator.

He also did something stupid and juvenile back when he was a professional comedian on a USO tour to entertain the troops.

As a result, one of the smartest and most effective members of our caucus was removed.

And now he's gone.

Yay.

But tell me , who really won?

[mr_lebowski]

1. I'm still pissed (nt)

[LakeArenal]

16. Ditto. Pissed and unforgiving.

All of them....

[ailsagirl]

30. Ditto 😡

[zentrum]

57. Me too.

And the lead ouster is my Senator. Still mad and sad. And unforgiving.

We really need him.

[Texin]

163. If you're referring to Gillebrand, she saw this as an opportunity to get rid of an opponent

in the presidential election. Franken was one of the most outspoken and eloquent senators at the time (along with Harris) and I think KG must have thought Franken might have had his sights on the WH.

[stopdiggin]

106. it was a hit job

sponsored by dirty tricksters on the right. And FAR too many got sucked in -- and proceeded to pile on. The only positive you can (maybe) glean from the whole stinking mess is -- it painted a fairly clear message, for those that are inclined to learn.

(note the amount of qualification I had to tuck into the preceding sentence)

[calimary]

111. Same here. Thank you Kirsten Gillibrand.

You led the attack against him based on a few state fair goers who wanted to pose for a photo with him and then complained that “he touched my waist.”

[Dem4Life1102]

116. And Kamala Harris and Elizabeth Warren and Bernie Sanders

and Cory Booker and over 30 other Senators.

[LiberalLovinLug]

165. And that only proves that there IS a systemic problem with Democrats

I remember early on in Obama's term, when Van Jones was going to be picked for a plum job in the administration. But he made the grave error of calling Republicans "assholes". And it was caught on his mic. This after Mitch was bragging how they would block everything with the goal of reducing Obama to a one term president. He was quickly dealt with and removed from any consideration after that. That sounded excessive then, but especially in today's light, after 4 years of vile foul language being normalized right from the top.

And that Sanders and others recanted their position since, and said they regretted it. But why vote for removal at all? It sure seems like, and maybe they've learned their lesson, that the majority of Dems can be frightened by the party whips into going into extreme PC mode, and you DO NOT want to be the lone rep that is seen as politically incorrect.

Democrats have a problem to deal with that Republicans don't have to. Because Dems have claimed the high moral ground, they want to vigorously defend it. Understandable. But it means they don't know where to draw the line and so draw it as low as they can to be sure no D voter anywhere will accuse them of not doing enough about whatever the R's have exposed to the MSM. Rethugs don't have a line.

Long serving Democrats have to realize we are in a different era, and have been for a couple of decades. I'd say ever since Newt Gingrich. We cannot afford to hand Republicans easy victories based on some moral code that they don't even recognize themselves......other than to smear Democrats with when they have a chance. They open the door, then they just sit back and watch Democrats push "offenders" all the way out the door.

[True Blue American]

145. Agree!

[cwydro]

67. Ditto.

X1000

[orleans]

104. same here nt

[PatSeg]

136. Likewise

Al Franken came to my mind last night when republicans defended Greene because her vile statements were made before she was a member of congress. If you are a Democrat, they'll roast you for something you did in kindergarten, but republicans get a free pass.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

2. Don't get me started...

Al Franken was one of my senators. He was terrific. His replacement, Tina Smith, has been doing a very good job and I have no complaints about her, but we never should have had to lose Franken. I'm still pissed off about that.

[pazzyanne]

98. Ditto! nt

[My Pet Orangutan]

3. 8 women stepped forward to accuse him

of inappropriate conduct. Some were RW, some were not. It's not a simple story.

cf. Katie Hill.

[LakeArenal]

18. Yes it is. Political opportunism at worst, falling for smear campaign at least.

Should have had his day in an ethics investigation as he requested on day on.

This is a decisive thread in that the anger is still there and again the bear is poked.

[My Pet Orangutan]

27. No it's not.

The allegations by 8 women warranted an ethics investigation. It was not a simple story of baseless smears.

Now did Gillibrand et al, railroad Al out of the Senate, without the slightest pretense of due process? Yes they did - and it rightly killed Kirsten's career. That was open and shut. The substance of the complaints was not - and properly required an ethics investigation.

[Mister Ed]

43. Aye. An ethics investigation was required.

I wish there would have been one.

[My Pet Orangutan]

53. The rush to judgment was a disgrace, I don't dispute that,

and the precedent set was worse than unfortunate.

[Butterflylady]

60. Yes they were very much baseless smears.

Many of the senators that backed her now are very sorry for the backing and regret it.

Yes I wish he would have stuck around and let the investigation prove my point but he felt he was hurting his colleagues. He did what he felt was right.

It's truly a shame what happened Sen. Gillibrand but as the old saying goes, live by the sword, die by the sword.

[My Pet Orangutan]

62. All baseless smears? Prove it.

That's right, you can't. That's what an ethics investigation is for.

[pazzyanne]

99. What civil law suits?

[Karma13612]

115. That's the point.

There were never going to be any in the first place because it was a hit job.

[pazzyanne]

117. Yep.

Guess I should have used the sarcasm emoji.

[Karma13612]

161. No harm done!!...nt. 👍

[Dem4Life1102]

119. Wouldn't say it killed her career

She was re-elected with 67% of the vote in 18. Nor did it kill the career of Harris, Warren, Sanders, Booker or any of the over 30 other Senators who called for Franken to resign on the very same day. But it did work out for Harris, she got Franken’s seat on the Judiciary committee.

[My Pet Orangutan]

121. Her career for higher office

A are rising star, then roadkill in the primaries

[Dem4Life1102]

128. Well the same could be said of

Booker, Warren and Sanders who’s presidential campaigns didn’t go anywhere as well as Harris’ campaign.

[My Pet Orangutan]

132. Senator Gillibrand failed early - August 28, 2019

2% in DNC recognized polls, $2.3 million raised in the 2nd Quarter, a result she herself tied to the Franken affair. From rising star to roadkill.

I'm not sure where you are getting your information about VP Harris. At the time she ended her campaign - December 3, 2019, both Warren and Sanders were leading her her comfortably in both the polls and fundraising.

Warren's star was setting, following theMedicare debacle, and the "Bernies Back" surge, but at 15% in the polls, and $17 million in the fourth quarter, she was still competitive. At 4% in the RCP average, Harris was a distant 5th and out of money.

The last thing I want to do is re-contest the primaries. I am delighted - thrilled by the first two weeks of the Biden Administration - and more impressed by the prominent role VP Harris has made her own.

[Dem4Life1102]

138. The point is that all the Senators

who called for Franken to resign failed in the presidential primary due to many factors that can't be directly tied back to their role in Franken's resignation. They all called for him to resign on the very same day, singling out just one of them is unfair.

[trueblue2007]

73. some were not named !!!!!!! hOW CAN A PERSON ALLEGE THIS AND NOT NAME THEMSELVES

Al got railroaded.

[My Pet Orangutan]

75. There should have been a proper ethics inquiry.

Agree that the rush to judgement was a disgrace. Gillibrand paid the price, and rightly so.

There was a similar one day pile up on Ralph Northam, by equally senior people. We are lucky that he stood firm.

[dflprincess]

76. And as soon as he resigned they all faded away

no one even tried filing a civil suit which I would have expected to have happen if their stories held up to scrutiny.

[Vivienne235729]

101. Yep!

[yardwork]

81. I thought most of them were anonymous, so they didn't step forward.

The ones who openly accused him didn't offer very believable stories. IMO.

[dflprincess]

103. There were no lawsuits

And no out of court settlements.

[kcr]

125. But somehow you manage to oversimplify it n/t

[FakeNoose]

4. Exactly right!

What happened to him was so unfair and so unnecessary.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

17. And they aren't even trying to get rid of QAnon Lady, but just take away

her committee assignments. Franken was drummed out of the Senate because he allegedly behaved inappropriately long before he became a senator; as a result, my vote for the senator I wanted to represent my state was effectively taken away from me.

[samnsara]

23. yep...i was always hoping he would run for prez...what a FUN time it would have been..

[AmyStrange]

31. +100000000000000000000000000000000 x 2

[LanternWaste]

33. And 1400 + 600 2000 (w/o the x2, though)

to clear up any confusion that may appear...

[AmyStrange]

35. Now I am confused

[Karma13612]

118. WHAT???..nt

[Dan]

68. And if he runs, I will support him.

[MyOwnPeace]

74. As I see it....

THAT is the really a**-burning part of this whole argument: he got screwed and tossed because of some sophomoric/comedic stunt that could have/should have called for an 'accountability' resolution - but he got tossed!
The current 'numb-nuts Qanon' lady loses committee seats and the RepubliCons are pizzed?

[dixiechiken1]

6. Add me to the "still pissed" list...

[magicarpet]

7. Roger Stone and James O'Keefe of Project Veritas hammered away and hammered away,...

.... until they drove Franken from the political stage.

While the victim was pushed and pushed by Sean Hannity to blow the whole thing way out of proportion because Franken was too powerful in the senate making ReThugs look like idiots and fools they really are.

So bye bye Franken and his sharp intellect.

[90-percent]

36. BINGO!

OKEEFE and STONE win again!

republic dirty tricks and orchestrated coordinated smears win again!

90% Jimmy

[malaise]

8. Great post

Rec

[11 Bravo]

10. I took a shot. There are DUers who I love and respect, who may vehemently disagree with me.

But Al was a GREAT Fucking Senator.

And now he's not, and that troubles me.

[malaise]

13. ReTHUGs wanted him gone because he was one of the sharpest minds

in the Senate and Dems with their altar boy like self righteousness messed up big time because getting the facts

[11 Bravo]

15. And the Repugs got what they wanted, didn't they?

[malaise]

20. Yep

but the pussy grabber was their president

[Polly Hennessey]

9. I am happy that Kristen Gillibrand

has retreated back into the woodwork.

[Dem4Life1102]

11. What about Harris, Warren and Sanders?

All of whom called for Franken to resign the same day.

[11 Bravo]

12. I love them, and am glad they're in the Senate.

I simply think they were wrong to push Senator Franken out of their company.

[11 Bravo]

14. Double post. Self delete.

[LakeArenal]

25. And Schumer, Booker, Baldwin, Casey, Brown,

Claire McCaskill, Durbin....etc.

[Dem4Life1102]

29. Them too

[True Blue American]

146. Yes, Brown received

Several emails from me. He wrote back with the excuse of sexual harassment. I wrote back there was none. I think he was sorry he jumped the gun, but too late.

[LakeArenal]

147. Thank you for standing up.

When I wrote Baldwin I got a form letter about how hard she’s works and thanks for writing.

[True Blue American]

152. Sherrod tries

To answer every email. You get a form email right away with the promise when he has time. And he does.

Connie also makes him even more likable. They are putting in new people in the Ohio party and Sherrod is working hard. Now Chairman of the Banking committee.

Only time I disagreed with him.

[LakeArenal]

159. I get that. But "that" is a pretty big THAT!

[Autumn]

32. What about them? They didn't lead the charge and they were not the only ones who called for him

to resign.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/12/06/full-list-senators-call-for-al-franken-to-resign-282175

[Dem4Life1102]

41. Yes there were 39 in total

They all should be held equally responsible.

[Autumn]

46. I tend to hold ringleaders more responsible than others. A woman Senator called for his

resignation in the time of believe all woman even though the whole episode was sketchy as fuck. That left no cover for those who would rather have left it up to an ethics committee hearing. She should have let it play out but she chose not to do that for whatever reason. I'll put the blame on the ringleader, thank you.

[Dem4Life1102]

49. So who were the ringleaders?

Other than Schumer who was the only one powerful enough to get Franken to resign.

[Karma13612]

120. Gillibrand

And she was just trying to clear her path to a Presidential run. Which she then did, and FAILED!

I wish to dog we could get a better NY Senator who is more like Warren to primary Gillibrand from the left.

[Dem4Life1102]

127. And your evidence that any of that is true

Please post links to credible sources.

[LakeArenal]

137. With that reasoning, only trump is the ringleader.

All the insurrectionists that “signed” go free?!?!?!?

And look how many ran for president. Not just Gilli. I am trying my best to like our new VP. I have not said one negative thing since chosen for that post.

Posts like this bring it all up again and it tests my ability to change my opinion.

[philly_bob]

24. I had two goals last year:

1) support Democratic candidate

2) make sure Gillibrand was NOT the candidate.

[Dem4Life1102]

42. What about Harris, Sanders, Warren

and the other almost 40 Senators who called for Franken’s resignation?

[Bettie]

19. Still angry about that too

but, he scared the right wing and they know that our side is super good at the circular firing squad.

[rainin]

21. I was pissed and piled on here at DU. I wonder if those who supported his removal

here regret it. All I wanted was due process. Well, live and learn.

I think democrats have grown over the last 4 years. We're kicking ass and taking names! I love the new fighting spirit!

[samnsara]

22. i miss him..he made us laugh and we needed that, need that.

[90-percent]

37. also

he was probably the most intelligent of the Senate body. He could out lawyer that body full of lawyers.

Intelligent, well prepared, quick witted and clever.

He was one of the best Dems in the Senate in the 21st century.

-90% Jimmy

[ffr]

26. +1000

I'll lock arms with you in support of Al Franken any day!

Thank you for posting!

The QOP is in this to the death, our death.

[WyLoochka]

28. I hold a righteous grudge over this

There was a place for the allegations to be heard. Under oath in a hearing before the Ethics Committee.

Franken and the allegers were owed a hearing.

[Caliman73]

34. The clash of two important concepts within liberal ideology.

Empowering and accepting the experiences of women as valid AND the importance of due process and innocence until proven guilty. Franken's situation was a debacle. The accusations from right wingers were ridiculous and done with the specific purpose of hurting Franken. The problem was that there were multiple other accusations (though many anonymous) that muddied the situation.

The fact that Franken denied, but did not denigrate his accusers and was calling for a full investigation, should have signaled that there were legitimate concerns regarding the veracity of the claims. It would have been best to wait to see what any investigations returned.

That we do hold our own accountable is actually a strength. I understand the frustration, especially when we see what happened with Al Franken and when we see that Republicans RARELY hold their own members accountable, however, it is something that Democrats should take pride in. We place the laws, rules, ethical practice, and needs of our constituents above party loyalty and that is what good governance is about.

He was a great Senator. He did not deserve what happened. What we should do is not be so quick to determine people's guilt and destroy their career. I think we learned that lesson when Conservatives tried to pull the same crap with President Biden and his former staffer. Sad that we had to lose an effective Senator before the lesson was learned.

[keithbvadu2]

38. "But tell me , who really won?" - Ask Gillibrand.

[Dem4Life1102]

47. Harris didn't do too badly

She got Franken’s seat on the Judiciary committee helping to launch her Presidential campaign that led to being picked for VP.

[SergeStorms]

50. And see how...

respected she is in the Senate because of her rush to judgment. She's one of my Senators, and other than proclaiming Franken guilty without a hearing, I can't name one other thing she's done, accept follow everyone else.

[Dem4Life1102]

61. Well she worked with Jon Stewart

to get funding for 9/11 first responders and disability benefits for veterans.
https://www.rollcall.com/2019/02/25/jon-stewart-advocates-for-9-11-first-responders-are-tired-of-visiting-congress/
https://www.wshu.org/post/jon-stewart-kirsten-gillibrand-push-bill-help-sick-veterans-exposed-toxic-burn-pit-fumes#stream/0

[scarletwoman]

39. I'm still so pissed off that I can't even stand to post about it.

[PatrickforO]

40. You bet. Franken is one of our best people and he got railroaded. n/t

[SergeStorms]

44. I wish I could rec this a billion times.

Since it was never verified that the events in question even occurred. He was caught up in the first ripple of the "MeToo" tsunami, and his innocence or guilt seemed to matter not.

[Ferrets are Cool]

45. It was and is a travesty.

[Hekate]

48. I hope the people who railroaded Al out without a formal ethics investigation do not sleep well...

This is without a doubt one of the stupidest damn stunts my fellow party members have ever pulled.

[Rhiannon12866]

51. Who won? Certainly not us.

Al Franken was one of the best and the brightest we've ever had.

[TheRickles]

52. Has he ever talked about re-entering politics, maybe running for Senator again?

[OldBaldy1701E]

55. He would be a saint

for exposing himself to a potential repeat of what happened. Because some of those insane rethugs would go above and beyond to figure out any way to re-start the yelling. He is far too intelligent for them to just allow him back in. And, his sarcasm is so refined that those same rethugs cannot tell if they are being insulted or not, so they can't handle him in a position whereby he could bring it to bear.

[gademocrat7]

54. I am still very angry.

[Progressive Jones]

56. Removing Franken was a very bad move. Sorry, thinskins. nt

[Blue Owl]

58. I am livid that while Franken was railroaded out...

Meanwhile the TRUE misogynist/rapist/groper/pervert-in-chief, Donald FUCKING tRump, was never ONCE called out for his prior actions.

For this reason, I will forever despise, loathe, and detest the shitty committee led by Gillibrand, and I will wish ill upon Donald FUCKING tRump and any other repuke who is not held to the same standards that Al was. Fuck them all to hell.

[pandr32]

59. I disagree that Al Franken "did something stupid...on a USO tour"

Yes he became a senator--a good one, but he had been a very popular comedian who often did shtick. Tweedon (who pretended to be victimized) was only pretending to be asleep and was part of the act. They were camping things up on purpose. Claiming otherwise in order to force Franken's resignation should have been a crime, but we were deep in 'Me Too' at the time. Franken, being a great guy, knew that the timing was not good to contest the situation and behaved as a gentleman and bowed out.

[LymphocyteLover]

69. Yes, the thing is he DID resign. He wasn't forced out.

I think he was an unfortunate victim of that particular moment where MeToo was at it's peak and Dems wanted to show they were better morally. It was tricky either way. It probably helped Dems win the AL seat, short-lived as that was.

[pandr32]

151. I agree

[MacKasey]

80. It she was so upset about it, why did she keep that picture?

And then give it to Hannity

I wish he would have stuck around and let them in investigate all the allegations.

[pandr32]

153. It was a set-up

I am quite sure Tweeden would have been rewarded for her role in making false charges against Franken. Roger Stone and Alex Jones were in on the plan.
The thing that bothers me most is that even Al Franken regrets he resigned.

[dflprincess]

148. There is also video of her behavior on other USO tours

Including when she was clearly the aggressor with Robin Williams.

[pandr32]

155. Yes. Roger Stone was behind her accusations.

I remember him warning that it was going to be Al Franken's 'time in the barrel". I believe he planned to take down key democrats one-at-a-time by exploiting our penchant for punishing bad behavior within our ranks.

[Blue_true]

63. We have real values, republicans claim to have them.

IMO, enough credible women stepped forward (I don’t buy, they didn’t name themselves publicly bullshit, women that accuse should have the option of whether to go public or not, if they are telling the truth, it shouldn’t matter. If they are lying, the investigative process should highlight that) that he couldn’t ethically stay in his seat. As things are, we have a very good replacement.

[LakeArenal]

83. Well this is my opinion, but to claim we have real values regarding Franken....not do much...

Based on public opinion that he was railroaded by very prominent Senators, why haven’t there been more public apologies for railroading Al. Why has the Dem leadership not reached out to Al and asked his forgiveness. But they haven’t. For a long time now.

As I said this is a divisive issue. Feelings are still strong and trying to minimize our anger actually brings it all forward.

[Blue_true]

85. Valid evidence was stacking up against him.

Maybe the instigators had foul intentions, but the fact is, they picked a good target. The other Senators have no reason to apologize, they did what mounting facts dictated they do.

[mzmolly]

64. I agree. He was my Senator.

I hope he'll run again.

[mezame]

65. I Miss Al

ahhh 2004: Lies & the Lying Liars Who Tell Them: A Fair & Balanced Look at the Right

drummed out of the Senate on drummed-up charges, but more likely because he pissed-off so many R's with the truth.

[bullimiami]

66. stupid and juvenile? as a comedian, and a very good one, donating his time to entertain the troops,

he made jokes.

Seriously.

[LakeArenal]

86. At a USO Show of all things. Has no one ever watched a Bob Hope USO Show????

Ay yi yi! All boobs and not so subtle sexual innuendo.

Tweeden is later pictured slapping the ass of another performer to boot.

[11 Bravo]

167. I was referencing the pretend groping of a sleeping woman which ignited the shitstorm.

Which descriptor do you most disagree with? Stupid, or juvenile? Hell, which descriptor would Al take issue with? He copped to it and apologized. But that wasn't good enough for some.

My point is that one of the best and smartest Dem Senators in recent memory got railroaded out of office; and our party and the entire fucking country are the worse for it.

[bullimiami]

168. its comedy. uso. its bread and butter is stupid and juvenile.

this was manufactured outrage pure and simple.
he didnt apologize for being a comedian or doing his act.

he apologized that if anyone was offended that was unintentional.

Your point is 100% agreed with. Railroaded. And we are worse off.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

70. I will never forget. Wont forgive, either.

[mountain grammy]

78. Same here. I'll never get over it..

I listen to Al's podcast. The man is good to his soul. I'll never get over it.

He's interviewed several senators, the last was John Testor. All apologized, as they should. Al says thank you and moves on while I'm screaming.

[BlancheSplanchnik]

134. Wow!!! God I could cry.

I started listening to his podcast recently, hadn’t heard those apologies. What a loss!!! He is good and kind and decent and absolutely brilliant.

I could scream too.

[Cassidy]

71. I am still angry about this. I am glad whenever I see Franken on cable.

I hope he will come back. He has a great deal of support and the world needs intellects like his.

I just couldn't believe the allegations and really wanted there to be a thorough and public investigation. I have been sexually harassed and assaulted, so I am inclined to believe women.

But I was only ever able to find additional information about two of the complainants. It has been a while, but none of the evidence I was able to find seemed like things that a person should lose their job over. Everyone should have had their day in court.

There should have been a thorough investigation. For the sake of the people involved and for the sake of the country.

[demigoddess]

72. AGREE TOTALLY

[Olafjoy]

77. So Pissed.

Never again.

[Vivienne235729]

79. I am STILL not over how he got treated. I still can't even look at Gillibrand

Makes me so mad. He was an incredible Senator.

[Dem4Life1102]

87. What about Harris, Warren, Sanders and

all the other Senators who called for Franken to resign?

[Vivienne235729]

93. Gillibrand practically fell over herself to get to the podium

To denounce Al Franken and essentially got rid of one of her biggest competitors. She was the first to publicly call for his head and lead the charge of his senatorial hanging. All decided before the charges were even investigated. It was a terrible hit piece. The others have blood on their hands for that too. But at least they didn’t open the gate and led the way.

[Dem4Life1102]

95. Yes she was the first

by about 5 minutes. All the other Senators quickly followed. Since Harris, Booker, Warren and Sanders were planning to run for president too, were they trying to knock off a competitor too? Or were they just mindless minions?

Oh and Gillibrand wasn’t the first one to go on TV to call for Franken’s resignation. That was Harris, who also got Franken’s seat on the judiciary committee.

[Vivienne235729]

97. I remember her being the first to do so publicly. I never said the others

The others didn’t do it. They have blood on their hands too. But KG is the one that opened the gate. You go right ahead and vote and donate to her. But I will never.

[Dem4Life1102]

100. Yes she was first but only by 5 minutes

All the others quickly followed. The other Senators were not mindlessly following Gillibrand, this was a highly coordinated effort that was decided upon beforehand. To single Gillibrand out is not only unfair but shows a stunning double standard.
https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/senators-al-franken-resignation/index.html
https://www.cnn.com/2017/12/06/politics/al-franken-democratic-senators-resign/index.html

[Karma13612]

122. The Kentucky derby

Takes less than 5 minutes and only the first horse over the finish line gets the trophy.

[Dem4Life1102]

129. Lol

[shrike3]

166. She tried to make hay as a champion of women, and it didn't work

She also appeared on 60 minutes and Full Frontal as the spokeswoman for the Get Rid of Al movement. And I remember the Clintons backed her for Hillary's old seat, and she turned on them. Politics is blood sport, as Bill once said. She knows that, she's taken her chances, but things didn't pan out the way she hoped. She must be seasoned enough by now to know that's the way it goes.

[Vivienne235729]

169. I didn't know that she was on 60min and Full frontal. I just remember she seemed the spokesperson

to get rid of Al Franken, too. I know the others followed suit, but she definitely led the charge. I was disappointed in that bc I REALLY liked her championing the issues affecting women. Maybe in time, I will forgive her for it but throughout the nightmare of the last 4 years, I was pissed at her as we really needed Al Franken's voice. I DO like her strong feminist side, though. And I hope to see more of it from other members of our legislative body.

[shrike3]

170. I remember being a little annoyed at Samantha Bee, celebrating Al's resignation and having

Last edited Fri Feb 5, 2021, 07:47 PM - Edit history (1)

Gillibrand on as some kind of heroine. Now, obviously other Senators called for his resignation, but they didn't put themselves out in front, they let her do it. She made a tactical mistake.

I also miss Al. During the Northam flap I remember thinking, if Al had just hung tough maybe he would have ridden it out like Northam did. BUT, he made a decision. So did the caucus. What's done is done. I've always believed that this was done to him because his questioning forced Jeff Sessions to recuse himself. And Juanita Brodderick tweeted, "Bannon is working on it. Good things are coming." And voila, there were accusers for Al. Who disappeared into the woodwork when he resigned. It was so obviously a hitjob to me; maybe the Dem caucus knew things I didn't.

[Vivienne235729]

171. Totally agree. It looked like a hit job to me too. I would have felt better about the whole thing if

they had given him a fair hearing. It just seemed like a rush job. And you're right. All the accusers just magically disappeared into the woodwork after his resignation.

[DFW]

133. There is no love lost, especially for the ones who went on to declare their candidacy for President

Ironically, Al had no such ambitions, though there was much speculation that he did.

Of all the contributions I made starting in 2018, I scrupulously avoided (and still do) the presidential campaigns, as well as senatorial re-election campaigns, of Harris, Warren, Gillibrand, Booker, and Sanders.

Jon Tester has made a public apology, so I would contribute to him again, and although he lost his seat in Florida, Bill Nelson said, and Al confirmed, that he had apologized, as well.

[Dem4Life1102]

139. Thank you

That is very fair. They are all equally responsible.

[DFW]

154. Agreed.

The general public doesn't know the half of what all went down, and it's probably just as well.

[quakerboy]

82. We have ethics

they dont.

Id rather not change that

[Joinfortmill]

84. Not us.

[Richard D]

91. What happened to Franken was an utter travesty.

Sickened by it.

[dai13sy]

92. Awful

One of the stupidest moves ever made was removing Al from his Senate seat. He was excellent in his service to the American people and they turned him in to the sacrificial lamb.

[Digger]

94. Al,

Uh...I mean Stewart, remember you are good enough, smart enough and doggone it, people like you.

[ismnotwasm]

96. And Hillary Clinton isn't president.

Who really won?

I think Franken could have stuck it out. It was perilous times, but he’s a good dude. I think he made the move he thought best.

[DFW]

130. He thought the best?

You have to be kidding. Have you ever asked him or talked to him about this? That was not his motivation for stepping down.

[ismnotwasm]

149. What was his motivation?

Or do you think he was simply railroaded, pushed into a situation where no other response was possible?

As far as your question, I live in Washington state, and not only have I never met or spoken with him, but I’ve never read his books, listened to his comedy or followed him much except for his political activity. I found him a very canny politician and one who cared about people. 🤷‍♀️

[DFW]

157. Your assessment is completely correct on that. He cared very deeply about people. Still does.

Jews have an expression using the German word "Mensch." In German it just means "person," but in the Jewish culture (of which Al and Franni are a part, as I suppose is no secret to anyone), it means more than that. It can't be translated easily with just one word, but it means something like a "truly good-hearted soul," which Al most certainly is. STan Lee was another such person. When you meet one, you know one.

The reason Al never reacted strongly in the beginning of the fracas is that, not having done anything evil, he didn't take the accusations seriously because he knew they were bogus. He knew all about the Republican smear apparatus, and never figured his own colleagues would take any of this seriously. He was completely blindsided when they did, having figured they would know better, and realize a scam when they saw one. To Al, they might as well have accused him of being an accomplice of John Wilkes Booth.

For the record, and I don't think that I'm revealing any "don't tell anyone" secret at this point, the straw that broke the camel's back was when the governor of Minnesota chose his replacement before he had even made the decision to resign. Sort of a Shakespearean "et tu, Brute, then fall Cæsar" moment.

I haven't read all his books, but yes, I know him, though we don't get together for coffee every Sunday morning, since he now lives back in Minnesota, and I live in the German Rheinland. One of my good friends is also his best friend, for the record. Al is still a brilliant comedian, and on one of the nights when we were last together (over New Year's 2019-2020), he told the story of his first few days in the Senate. He thought he'd try to get to know a Republican Senator and see if there was any way to communicate. Unfortunately he chose Tom Coburn of Oklahoma, a man completely devoid of humor. Al said let's go get some coffee and have some fun. Coburn said something like, "that seems in order," and never cracked a smile the whole time. And if you hear Al do his Bernie Sanders impressions, you will fall of your chair laughing whether you love Bernie or can't stand him. Al just has Bernie nailed cold.

[BobTheSubgenius]

102. I was devestated by what happened to Senator Franken.

He was smart as HELL, always meticulously prepared, could think on his feet (or in a chair) and had his priorities perfectly calibrated, as far as I could tell.

Oh legislative ability and communication skills, he was as good as they get.

To mention Al Franken and...SWWNBN...in the same post feels kind of icky.

[PBass]

105. OP says Franken was "removed", but he was not "removed".

He resigned for the good of the Democratic Party, facing a midterm election.

Not a small point... language matters, facts matter.

Al Franken spared the party from the spectacle of Senate hearings on sexual misconduct before a national election. "He took one for the team".

Do I miss him? Absolutely! He was one of the best!

[Politicub]

107. He was a good senator. I guess he rose to greatness. I think

he was excellent in his use of rhetoric. He was great in his contributions to the ACA legislation.

But he did not step down in a vacuum. I am tired of seeing democrats who are currently serving raked over the coals -- branded with a scarlet letter -- because of Franken's own behavior.

He is an imperfect man. We all are. It just so happens his imperfections caught up with him at the dawn of the #metoo movement.

No one really won anything. We all lost.

The question is -- what do we do now? Today?

We can't go back into the past and make a correction. We can learn from what happened.

Personally, I struggle with focusing on my own accomplishments. Instead, I ruminate over bad choices I made and how I affected other people. My therapist works with me on this because it is unhealthy for someone to live in the past.

That's what I see on these Franken threads. They don't get us anywhere. They're just rehashes of the same things we already know.

I don't see the point of them. It offends me that some continue to punish Kristen Gillibrand, as if she was the only person who had anything to do with Franken stepping down. But she became the Hester Prynne of this story -- forever condemned to wear the letter.

We do Franken's accomplishments no service when we maintain a vigil of perpetual victim status.

[kcr]

126. Sorry. Get used to it.

It's not going away. Just look at how long this thread is, and DU is far from the only place. I will never forget.

[Politicub]

141. "It's not going away." Franken expressed his thoughts about that:

Franken is recognized nearly everywhere he goes, and he often gets stopped on the street. “I can’t go anywhere without people reminding me of this, usually with some version of ‘You shouldn’t have resigned,’ ” Franken said. He appreciates the support, but such comments torment him about his departure from the Senate. He tends to respond curtly, “Yup.”

https://www.newyorker.com/magazine/2019/07/29/the-case-of-al-franken

The excerpt is from from an interesting article. Many senators expressed regret for their role in his stepping down. Franken believes he also acted too hastily at the time.

The story and circumstances are complex — just like the man himself.

I should have thought before posting, though. Wading into this thread was a mistake.

[DFW]

131. Rehashing things we already know?

After reading through all the comments on this thread, there appears to be plenty that some people just want for their own version of things, and much of it has nothing to do with Al thinks, thought, or did. It appears, at least to me, that a great many of people here have never talked to Al about this at all, just post what "has to be true," according to them. And if you REALLY want to hear the unfiltered version, talk to Franni. She's a lot less forgiving than Al is (and that's not very).

[Politicub]

142. He was bullied, and a pile-on mentality took hold.

It’s a tragic story. I would have rather have him in the senate than not.

[DFW]

160. So would I!!!

Unfortunately, he is no longer interested, as long as a majority of his detractors are still members. Even if he were, Franni would raise holy hell about it.

Al, himself, is still interested in public service. He LIKED representing Minnesota in the Senate, and truly saw his job as helping people out, both Minnesotans, and Americans if the issue was big enough.

But the Senate, although he LOVED the job, just carries a lot of bitter memories, especially when it concerns people to whom he would have entrusted his life, and they stomped him like a cockroach when it became convenient. Since he is not like that, he never suspected it of people who had the same political outlook as he did.

Al is going to be 70 this year, so it's not he is looking at some career move spanning the next 40 years. He has a minor health issue as well, although it may be as easy to fix as a hip replacement (that's what it looked like when I saw him last, anyway). Howard had one of those 11 years ago, and came through it as if had been a sprained ankle (or maybe easier--a sprained ankle can hurt like hell).

Maybe governor of Minnesota at some point? I doubt the House, and I just can't see the Senate, although maybe down the road for a one-term shot if one of the seats opens up, and the wounds have been given more time to heal. Franni would have to give her blessing, too, or Al won't even consider it. He would never challenge Amy Klobuchar in a primary, and doesn't really harbor a grudge against Tina Smith, although she is where he ought to be.

[Caliman73]

158. The point of Franken threads, in my opinion...

I think some people do tend to rehash grievances. I tend to view them as vehicles for discussing the difference between Democratic Party members and Republicans. Franken is used as an example of the Democratic Party "eating our own" or "capitulating" to Republicans. Some decry the fact that we tend to hold our elected officials to account.

Unfortunately, what happened to Al Franken was, again, in my opinion, an over reaction and the pressure to have him removed quickly appeared to be political because of the election. It isn't really a good example of "holding people accountable". Franken resigned because he saw the political damage the situation was doing to the party. I would have preferred an inquiry and resolution, but that is just my opinion.

A better example would be Jon Edwards, who was in the running for the nomination to the presidency and was rising in the party until the situation with his affair and fathering of a child with his mistress came out. It wasn't that action that booted him out, but his lying about it and general sleaziness that came out as the story unfolded.

Some people, even on DU, see Democrats as weak for holding our candidates and politicians to standards of appropriate behavior. I tend to see it as a strength, albeit a double edged sword. Republicans on the other hand, are unethical and really just bad people generally (at least the leadership is). It isn't virtue to beat them by abandoning our values. If you destroy your enemy by becoming like them, then what (paraphrasing the OP) has won?

[Warpy]

112. He was a good senator, but his effectiveness was limited

simply because he wasn't a lawyer. That made it difficult for him to originate legislation.

Still, he should not have been removed. He did nothing illegal, only slightly tacky, tacky enough to be misinterpreted. I will never forgive Wasserman-Scbultz for her over the top reaction to it, nor any of the other Democrats who pushed him out.

I would hope he take up his writing career again, no one could skewer blustering wingnuts the way he could.

[amywalk]

113. Dems always eat our own. It's pathetic and probably pathological....

I will never forgive the Dem rush to get rid of @AlFrankin.He’s one of the best public servants we’ve ever had.

[Squinch]

114. Al stepped down. He should have stayed and fought it.

[NurseJackie]

123. Franken was railroaded.

He's an honorable man who knew that even in rightly demanding his "day in court" would be too divisive for the party, so he took-one-for-the-team and gave up without a fight. I miss him and I think he should run again. Let the voters decide.

[lark]

124. Can't say what I really feel about this - wouldn't be prudent.

I will say he was railroaded and it has and always will piss me off badly. i wish he'd insisted on the truth coming out so it would become obvious this was a totally fake right wing hit job.

[Ingersollman]

135. I'm

still pissed. I'm liking your username. Former 11B myself. 1981-1989.

[drmeow]

140. Rehabilitation

Communities which have been harmed by systemic bias along with the wider progressive community need to have a conversation about and develop ways to talk about and ways to allow for rehabilitation. For me, being progressive has as a core belief the idea that humans can grow, develop, learn, and change over our lifetimes. Part of that includes being able to recognize where naivety, ignorance, or cultural experiences may have caused us to behave in hurtful ways and making efforts to change those behaviors.

Let us assume that both Franken and Weinstein were sexual predators 20 years ago (personally I don't think they fall in the same group but let's just assume so for the sake of argument). Looking at their behavior now it seems clear that one has grown but the other has not. To me it is of critical importance that we find ways somehow recognize and acknowledge that and finds ways to determine when that is enough vs when it is too little, too late and then apply those determinations consistently.

Part of that means all allegations - on both sides of the aisle - need to start with an investigation (not immediate call for resignation). The added benefit will be that each case builds a precedent and can be used to set standards for the next case.

We seem to be able to embrace the extreme cases (the I was a neonazi but saw the error of my ways and now I work to overcome white supremacy cases) and the celebrity cases (Beastie Boys, as an example) but we seem to hold our politicians to a higher, unattainable standard.

[Dukkha]

143. The real problem with America being hopelessly corrupt

Is not that so many on the right are evil but so many on the left are cowards. If all you care about is performance woking cancel culture and "unity" then you really don't have the cajones for the resistance you pretend to be a part of.

[True Blue American]

144. Al did not even

Do what his accuser said. They are comedians. They get raunchy and they showed videos of her climbing all over Al and other men on the stage. She got a right wing radio show.

https://www.npr.org/2019/07/25/745232345/journalist-jane-mayer-on-the-many-mysteries-in-the-accusations-against-al-franke

[keithbvadu2]

150. Now he has time to control the Jewish lasers.

Now he has time to control the Jewish lasers.

.... If it needs to be said.

The Qs would believe it.

[aidbo]

156. He quit.

[HelpImSurrounded]

162. His sacrifice helps us now.

I'm still pissed about it, too.

But Sen. Franken drew a line. He set a standard. And now we can measure the GOP by that standard. When people say "both parties" we shake our heads and say "NO! Sen. Franken set the standard. He resigned over far far less than the GOP does regularly." The Democratic Party has standards. The D party puts Country before Party. The Republicans have no standard. The R party puts party over all.

[Nitram]

164. Minnesota should re-elect Franken. He was and should be an exemplary Senator.

[Dem4Life1102]

172. He should run for Governor of Minnesota

[DFW]

173. That is quite within the realm of possibility

I‘m still surprised about all the posts with—how to put this inoffensively?—inaccurate assumptions on his reason for resigning by posters who obviously never asked him.

Be that as it may, as I stated above, Al is still interested in public service. He is as sharp as ever, as any of the available podcasts and interviews demonstrate. His reluctance to serve in the Senate alongside those so willing to toss him to the wolves just over three years ago (few will ever understand how deeply depressed that left him) is still a present factor with him). However, the governorship of Minnesota would carry no such downside for him. Consider it a distinct possibility, though nothing is ever a certainty, as we all should know by now.