Boom! MSNBC is reporting impeachment managers will show new evidence

[RDANGELO]

of what Trump knew before Jan 6th, according to the Washington Post. In other words, Trump knew what was coming down. I was hoping they would get this. It puts everything together and makes a really strong case.

[livetohike]

1. He was laying the ground work for months by saying that

if he lost, then the election was rigged. Lots of video evidence of him saying this.

[Lonestarblue]

7. Yes. Replacing the Pentagon leaders for no reason was to help his terrorist gangs.

Filing so many court cases was most likely to show his lunatic followers that everyone was out to get him, even the judges he appointed, and the Proud Boys and similar violent gangs of malcontents needed to come to DC to save him and keep him in office—the law be damned. They all seemed to understand what was expected of them, and even claimed during the attack that they had a right to be in the Capitol because Trump had sent them. I hope that audio is played during the trial.

[lagomorph777]

45. And one of those (Miller) ordering the National Guard to stand down, on Jan 4th.

Obvious premeditation.

[TomSlick]

97. Exactly!

[livetohike]

76. I hope the impeachment managers have lots of visual aids

showing a timeline of his incendiary comments leading up to Jan 6. Remember him saying his biker friends would stand up for him, or something like that?

[liberalla]

62. Yes he was!

Bookmarking

I wish I could stay home to watch the hearings...

[lettucebe]

74. He even said this before the 2016 election. He always planned to cry foul if he lost

[alfredo]

98. He cried foul when he won.

[Dustlawyer]

83. Not known for being quick on his feet Trump still managed to respond in the debate for the

Proud Boys to “Stand down and stand by.” I believe that this response came because he already knew he would lose and would try a coup.

[Lasher]

84. That wasn't quick on his feet.

That statement was planned ahead of time, and stands as more evidence of premeditation.

[Dustlawyer]

87. That was my point.

[Silver Gaia]

2. Excellent.

I read this a while back, but never heard any more about it. I'm glad to hear it again! Thanks.

[mucifer]

3. I actually believe the before and the after are what will take him down

trump did nothing when people were screaming for help. That part to me is so much more damning than his speeches. he knew even more people could die and he did not want to send in help.

I'm curious about the before evidence.

[lagomorph777]

46. +1000 Refusing to send help will damn him. If not in Senate, in criminal court.

[DeSmet]

58. Remind everyone

while it is clear he didn't send help for hours causing deaths and injury, the following day he stood in front of the world and declared he set the national guard immediately covering up his nefarious plan.

[calimary]

103. As long as SOMETHING does!!!

[Beachnutt]

4. Trump could walk up and shoot someone in the face on video and they would aquit,

they don't care about truth and fact.

[ailsagirl]

29. Horrible as that sounds...

it’s absolutely true.

Seems those monsters are taking party unity just a wee bit too far.

I’ll add this

[mindfulNJ]

5. They could have a video

of Trump leading the crowd by leashes down to the Capitol and it wouldn't matter.

[MiniMe]

39. That wouldn't be believable

tRump can't walk that far

[mindfulNJ]

42. HA!

True

[Jetheels]

57. He would use golf cart.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

60. Trump said he'd join them on the way to the Capitol. It was another lie.

In May 2017 Fat Donnie was the only G7 world leader who didn't walk the 700 yards through Taormina, Sicily, to get a group photo on the top of a small hill. He waited for a golf cart, and made everyone wait to take the picture (after he shoved people aside so he was in the center of the pic, of course). He looked really stupid riding in the cart while the other six leaders walked without effort.

Making people wait for you or entering the room after the meeting has begun is a passive-aggressive way of telling the other participants, "Fuck you, I'm the most important one in group." He did it so many times that at a 2019 NATO gathering several of the other leaders were recorded laughing at him because he held a 45-minute press conference while the other leaders waited for him to arrive so they could start.

There was no way he was going to join the insurrectionists on Jan. 6, no matter what he said. It was just too far, and he didn't have his golf cart with him. It was another example of him inciting the riot.

[colorado_ufo]

68. Plus, he knew it was going to be dangerous.

Mr. "I would have rushed right into that building and taken down the shooter." Yeah. Right. And there is no way that he would have mixed with the "low class looking" crowd, especially when he and his family had a party tent waiting for him (Eric's birthday). They celebrated while people were dying - people at the Capitol and 400,000+ across the country.

[dem4decades]

6. The case probably starts with the stand down and stand by to the proud boys.

If the House managers have any communications between the Trump camp and the proud boys that would be solid evidence. Not that the Republicans care.

[ProfessorGAC]

50. It Was "Stand Back"

He never actually told them to stand down!
I think that makes it even worse.

[North Shore Chicago]

8. When it comes for the anus

to be held accountable for ANYTHING, color me skeptical. The spineless republicans are fraidy cats when it comes to him.

[Botany]

9. Trump's own words from Dec. 2020 .... "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

Trump's own words from Dec. 2020 .... "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

Trump's own words from Dec. 2020 .... "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

Trump's own words from Dec. 2020 .... "Big protest in D.C. on January 6th. Be there, will be wild!"

And Trump along with family and friends including Ms. Guilfolye were listening to music and dancing
prior to Trump and others giving speeches before sending them to do damage in the US Capitol in
order to overturn our democracy.

[livetohike]

13. Trump and his cabal deserve full punishment for this.

The statements you posted incriminate him. He invited the crowd to the Capitol. He knew what would happen. He didn’t invite them to rally in FL on Jan. 6th. He knew.

[Botany]

16. And two days before the Pro Trump riot/coup Trump's acting Defense Sec. gave a stand down order ....

... to the D.C. National Guard. Trump installed a new acting head of the DoD right after he lost
the election this was all premeditated.


This memorandum responds directly to your January 4, 2021 memorandum regarding the District of Columbia request for District of Columbia National Guard (DCNG) support in response to planned demonstrations from January 5-6, 2021. You are authorized to approve the requested support, subject to my guidance below and subject to consultation with the Attorney General, as required by Executive Order 11485.

Without my subsequent, personal authorization, the DCNG is not authorized the following:

* To be issued weapons, ammunition, bayonets, batons, riot control agents or ballistic protection equipment such as helmets and body armor.

* To interact physically with protesters, except when necessary in self-defense or defense of others.

* Prohibited from sharing “equipment with law enforcement agencies” or seeking support from any non-DC National Guard units.

* Forbidden from conducting “searches, seizures, arrests, or other similar direct law enforcement activity.”

* Forbidden from using “Intelligence, Surveillance, and Reconnaissance assets” or to conduct “Incident, Awareness and Assessment activities.”

* No helicopters or “any other air assets.”

[theneworiginal]

51. yeah, that memo kinda takes the "speculation" out of it.

These people--Trump and his cabal--clearly coordinated to incite the Insurrection for his gain. They should be held CRIMINALLY responsible. If they don't, then we are essentially informing everyone that they have a second chance at retaining office if they lose their election, thru violence and destruction and without regard to the laws or Constitution.

So far, they are arresting the soldiers and the Capos. They need to go after the underbosses and The Don next.

[Botany]

54. The use of the phrase "riot control agents" 2 days before the Trump riot kind of takes ...

... any speculation out of it.

[colorado_ufo]

70. Why didn't they just paint targets on their backs?

Sitting ducks.

[SledDriver]

10. The damning part should be that, while the Capitol was under attack

There was no effort to move the POTUS out of DC to a secured location.

I know the WH is secure, but with the #2 and #3 in the line of succession at risk, I’d think there’d have been something about an effort to evacuate him to AF1.

Nothing. Almost as if he knew they weren’t after him...

[fierywoman]

14. AND that tape of them in the tent celebrating while watching it on tv!

[wnylib]

18. That is one of the damning pieces of

evidence, IMO.

But I am curious what the NEW information is.

[LittleGirl]

23. Actually that was before his speech, not after. nt

[llmart]

43. +1000

That in my opinion is the most damaging thing we've seen, even more damaging than his speech where he tells them to follow him (yeah, right) to the Capitol. The media needs to show that over and over again but they don't.

That clip was the most despicable. They were actually celebrating and he did nothing to end the chaos.

Despite all that, nothing the Dems show as evidence white matter one whit. They are not going to convict him.

[56miSSie]

79. The clips from in the tent were made before Trump spoke

at the rally. They were watching the other speakers.

[wnylib]

15. But of course he knew they were not after him.

He's the one who sent them to the Capitol to "fight hard" for him and the country.

[PatSeg]

20. Oh yes, that's a good point

[AllyCat]

31. During the terrorist attack on 9/11...

... what happened to Shrub and Darth Cheney? Bush was reading My Pet Goat, but did they eventually get moved? I don’t remember.

[secondwind]

47. Yes, I believe they were moved.

[csziggy]

75. Shrub was shuttled around the country on AF-1 then taken to a secure base

Cheney went to a bunker under the White House.

Remember, Shrub was reading "My Pet Goat" in some classroom at the time the attacks happened.

Updated:
Sep 12, 2019
Original:
Sep 9, 2019

Behind the 9/11 White House Order to Shoot Down U.S. Airliners: ‘It Had to be Done’
The harrowing decision was made during the first hour after the attacks—by Vice President Cheney.

Garrett M. Graff

The National Archives

It’s hard to imagine an American leader authorizing the shoot-down of civilian aircraft. But in the first hour following the attacks of September 11, 2001, when it was unclear how many passenger jets had been weaponized by terrorists—and then aimed at America’s seats of power—that’s exactly what happened.

According to what historic record exists from that chaotic morning, however, it’s unclear that the decision came directly from someone in the operational chain of command, which runs from the President to the Secretary of Defense down to military commanders. President George W. Bush, who began the day at an education event in Florida, was sequestered in the skies on Air Force One, frustrated by scant information, spotty communication and handlers determined to keep him safely away from the capital. Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld, meanwhile, became unreachable after the Pentagon itself had been struck.

That left Vice President Cheney, positioned in a bunker beneath the White House, in the decision-making hot seat.
More: https://www.history.com/news/september-11-attacks-shootdown-order-cheney-bush

[spanone]

11. K&R

[bucolic_frolic]

12. The fallout from this impeachment trial

will be to separate Senate Republicans from the voters, but Senate Republicans have no idea this is happening. They will tarnish their souls, their party, and their legacy. For some still unexplained reason, they remain beholden to Trump. And btw, no one has Trump's tax returns, the full Mueller Report is still not public, the Deutsche Bank loans and the source of the capital still unseen. I would bet the fallout of the Trump administration will echo for 15-20 years. This is a massive infestation of non-patriots, and you cannot weed them out like a vegetable garden.

Yes, Trump knew what was coming down. All those political appointees, personnel shifts, firings. I kept asking 'what is he up to?'.

And so far I'm surprised there are not mini-insurrections against anything Qworld doesn't like, such as state and local governments, tax revolts, even companies ... anything is vulnerable once gobbled up by Q Theory.

[mopinko]

19. it will be the end of the political careers of those who vote to acquit.

and to any post-term power and goodies they can hope to grub.

the good news is, if they have a skill, it's knowing which way the wind is blowing.
i wouldnt say i'm optimistic but i'm not pessimistic either.

[orangecrush]

25. "For some still unexplained reason"

The Mercers.

[Eyeball_Kid]

34. You've got THAT right. n/t

[Ford_Prefect]

49. The Q world was created to focus anxiety and anger on specific targets.

It exists because Putin, Mercer and others have amplified and fed the doubts these people have into genuine delusions. It also has served as a propaganda venue for darker ideas than could live on FOX or CNN.

The events of Jan. 6 were the result of careful planning and did not happen due to spontaneous combustion on the day. If Q world becomes focused on a agenda once more there will be other supporting and directing actions to bring a response from them attacking a target or persistently bringing pressure on public officials like the GOP Senate and Congress members, or state legislators.

We are a very long way from unplugging or blunting the efforts of Russia, the GOP leadership, or the Neo-Conservative establishment, or Dark Money interests to interfere with fact based thinking and healthy political process. Q world is but one of the extremes. FOX, Newsmax, OAN and other propaganda outlets like the entire media empire created by Rupert Murdoch constitute a force intent on distorting the perception of our world and American life.

[PatSeg]

17. Oh, this is going to be must-see television!

[KarenS]

38. I agree,,,,

We'll be watching!

[NewJeffCT]

21. Seth Abramson has been reporting on a January 5th meeting

at the failing Trump DC hotel with Trump sons and people like Tuberville, Lindell and others, as well as some of the insurrectionists.

[Ramsey Barner]

69. Yes - he's collected and curated the best reporting on this issue

https://sethabramson.substack.com/
(much of this material is available for non-subscribers. All of it is available for $5/month)

[Soxfan58]

22. Don't want to be a Debbie Downer

But there could be a bus load on nuns witness him murder someone and the Republicans would vote to acquit.

[Turin_C3PO]

30. The point is

to get the Republican Senators on record to see if they support a president who provoked an insurrection. Some of them will pay a political price for their cowardice.

[Ligyron]

37. Plus, it's important to get this in front of the American people.

Many need to be educated and there could be as many as half a dozen who haven't already made up their mind. And who knows?

This new evidence could be so overwhelming and hard to ignore that 17 Pepugs just may vote to convict and I'll bet all of them would be down with Trump never running or holding public office again.

[TwilightZone]

44. They're already on record.

55-45. Voting to declare it unconstitutional and for a resultant dismissal - which is ludicrous - is just as bad as voting to acquit.

"Some of them will pay a political price for their cowardice."

Unlikely. Red state Senators would pay a political price if they did the right thing and convicted him. If it was to their political benefit, they'd vote to convict.

Red states *want* him acquitted. Need proof? Liz Cheney.

[Turin_C3PO]

48. I believe that most won't suffer politically.

But I’m betting there’s a few who would be hurt by voting to acquit. I’m not sure who all the Senators are in various states but surely there’s some Republican Senators in purple states that would be vulnerable. Either way, I’m for this trial to be as comprehensive as the impeachment managers deem it necessary to be. It must be recorded in history what Donald Trump did.

[ShazzieB]

90. I agree with this comment! nt

[area51]

33. +1 n/t

[moonscape]

93. Not sure there's anyone at this point who thinks he'll be convicted, but

we need this as a case for the American people today and for history.

I've a very liberal friend who thinks we shouldn't even have the trial since he won't be convicted and it's just taking up agenda time. That argument loses me. It basically says that if the Republicans plan to act in a brazen immoral way, we should just walk away and not bother. This trial is important on so many levels, regardless of the vote.

[SayItLoud]

24. Watch for it to leak from Leningrad Lindsey before it's presented. NT

[Wounded Bear]

27. Thankfully, he's not an impeachment manager...

Dems are better at keeping their cards close to the vest.

[Wounded Bear]

26. There is ALWAYS more than what we're seeing in the press...

Always.

[2naSalit]

28. This trial is for us to see the whole thing...

Warts, hairs and fangs. It will expose many and lead to criminal referrals for many more in elected office and appointees. This will be just the beginning as the House Speaker has called for further investigation, even Liz Cheney is in favor of this, so that's going to happen. The Rs have destroyed themselves and we just need to make sure they are scrubbed from our body politic. But we also need to make certain that no individual involved in these crimes walks free.

[nightwing1240]

32. Subpoenae the orange menace

and allow him to hang himself before the entire world with his own words.

[In_The_Wind]

35. Trump and his army should be locked up!

He pumped them full of hate. "stand down and wait" Lock him up!

[blueinredohio]

36. I think they could have all the evidence in the world and

republicans will not convict him.

[keithbvadu2]

40. I want to see My Pillow guy testify with his "absolute proof".

[world wide wally]

41. The GQP has turned it into a matter of political party rather than an individual case.

The Dems have to address this in the hearing.

[safeinOhio]

52. Oct 30 and Nov 1 FOX News polls

had Biden well ahead of tRump, so where was the steal?

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/poll-biden-trump-lead-narrows-slightly
Oct 30

https://www.foxnews.com/politics/fox-news-poll-majority-trusts-biden-on-covid-half-say-virus-is-out-of-control

Nov 1

Tell me again about how it was stolen

[MoonchildCA]

59. And the fact that Trump has never even topped a 50% approval rating.

He never won the popular vote. The only way he could have won the election is if they stole it from us.

[Jon King]

53. It won't matter to any Repubs...

But at least get it all on record for use in campaign ads. This is a long, long fight. Hopefully pick a few independent voters off and continue the good demographic in the swing state suburban metro areas.

The goal has to be to keep the Presidency out of Republican hands. Thats where the most damage can be done.

[samplegirl]

55. I hope so these bastards

are not above the law!

[karin_sj]

56. What really gets me...

Is that several United States senators who were involved in inciting this insurrection (maybe even in planning it, according to Seth Abraham's reports that at least 2-3 senators were present in the January 5th meeting with the Trump cabal) get to vote in the impeachment. It's mind boggling.

[bucolic_frolic]

61. Why are they called managers? In court they'd be prosecutors, in the Senate, idk

[iluvtennis]

63. Love that there is new evidence...but it won't matter to most of GOP senators. They are cultists

and will not find trump guilty. But like the Ukraine impeachment last year, at least all of the evidence will be laid out for the American people.

[Elwood P Dowd]

72. Cultists AND cowards.

They are so scared of Trump and his base, they will do or say anything to defend them.

[MyMission]

81. If 10 cowards stay home to avoid

Going on record for the final vote, and 10 side with the Dems he can be convicted by 2/3, 30/60. I think that's possible.

I am trying to manifest this, to counter all the folks who say he won't be convicted.

Never trust the GQP! They are not loyal to the country, to their base, or their party. Some will avoid the vote by staying home, or perhaps they will just vote "present".

They will see the evidence. Some of these cowards may not be able to bring themselves to vote, either way. That's my hope.

[peggysue2]

64. Of course, he knew

He held a War Council at Trump Hotel the night before the insurrection with his favorite toadies and family. He announced the date well in advance, gave a war rally speech before the march on the Capitol, and then watched the ongoing siege with delight. He also made sure that help to quell in the insurrection was delayed.

Donald Trump is responsible for what happened--the deaths, the injuries, the desecration. He incited an attack on the US government putting our representatives in physical danger.

The man belongs in jail.

[MustLoveBeagles]

101. +1

[LudwigPastorius]

65. The House managers need to make sure to include Trump's statements concerning...

his supporters plot to seize the Michigan state capitol, kidnap Governor Whitmer, and take and execute hostages.

Specifically, they need to read into evidence Trump's "LIBERATE MICHIGAN" tweet before the plot, and his statement after arrests were made that, "we'll have to see if it's (the plot was) a problem. Right? People are entitled to say maybe it was a problem, maybe it wasn't".

He was fomenting planned violent insurrection, and excusing it after the fact, long before the attack on the national Capitol.

[highplainsdem]

66. Their trial brief makes it clear they're going to emphasize how much Trump would have known

of talk on social media about plans for violence on Jan. 6th. since Dan Scavino and others in the White House were monitoring the forums where those posts were appearing.

https://democraticunderground.com/100215042778

[Pantagruel]

67. The idea of PARDONS was implanted

into the Capitol terrorists. I think they felt invulnerable since they assumed Trump was going to be re-installed as POTUS and/or they knew from his Dec. pardon splurge and rumors of a Jan. 19-20 onslaught of clemency for all Trump's friends and family.
Trump intentionally wanted the terrorists to think they could act with impunity.

[triron]

71. I wonder whether it is partially related to a meeting on the 5th?

[BobTheSubgenius]

73. I'm now on the edge of my seat, waiting to find out what this is.

I hope it will be enough to convince a few GOP senators that maybe the country can be a priority for them.

[ooky]

77. He planned the whole thing knowing people would die. He needs to be portrayed

as the murderer he is.

[h2ebits]

78. Regardless of what happens in the Senate trial

I believe that as soon as it is over, we will see charges and arrests en masse of the group who met on January 5 and also the people who "partied" on January 6, including Mark Meadows. We will see charges against Trump "officials" put in office shortly before January 6 to assist in the insurrection by, for example: withholding help.

Whether the Senate convicts Trump or not is a political issue. Trump will not be off the hook--nor will anyone in Congress, either house, that participated in the insurrection including their participation after the fact.

At the very least Trump will be indicted and in prison for financial crimes.

We will also see Steve Bannon and others who were pardoned be re-arrested on new charges. Finally, we will also see arrests of now private citizen Trump, Steve Miller (where is he anyway?), and others for crimes against humanity, etc.

It will take years to track down evidence and put people in prison for all the crimes that were committed during the Trump Administration.

Germany is still dealing with issues from the Nazi reign of terror. I just read an article that a 95-year old woman was charged with the murder of 10,000 people because she had been a secretary at one of the camps.

We, as a people, must not show mercy to anyone responsible for the carnage.

[bunny planet]

80. I hope

they're going to play him at the debate where he told the Proud Boys to stand down and stand by. That seems like exactly what they did, waiting for his instructions to reactivate. Maybe he had an account under a different name on Parler to give instructions.

[Wednesdays]

82. He said, "Stand back and stand by,"

which is even worse.

[Lock him up.]

86. Then, he told them: "And if you don't fight like hell, you're not going to have a country anymore"

Walk on Pennsylvania Avenue to the Capitol (when he only had a permit for a rally, not for a walking protest).

Even worse.

[trueblue2007]

85. ISN'T THAT TREASON??

[soldierant]

91. In most countries it would be,

and it certainly is the way the word is used in ordinary speech.

But our constitution defines "Treason against the United States" so narrowly that, in law, no, it isn't.

Of course everyone who had a part in writing or signing the Constitution was well aware that, in the colloquial sense and as defined by Great Britain, they has all committed treason against Great Britain. I think they were a bit sensitive on the subject.

But we still have sedition and insurrection and conspiracy to fall back on.

[triron]

92. No, it is treason even under US law.

[soldierant]

104. Article III, Section 3

It would be a real challenge to prove that January 6 constituted "levying War against [the United States.]" And before you could prove that any of those citizens were "Enemies" you would first have to prove treason, which would be a circular argument and would not be accepted in any court. IANAL, but I have been reading a lot of them, and the consensus is that treason is extremely limited and this does not rise to it.

[Joinfortmill]

88. Nail him!

[Cha]

89. Smoking gun as it were.

[triron]

94. knr

[Nitram]

95. Got my fingers crossed this is a game changer.

But I'm not holding my breath until GOPers decide to vote for the country, not their party.

[Poiuyt]

96. Remember Fitzmas and Mueller

Sorry, but I don't think anything will matter except in the eyes of history.

[TigressDem]

99. tRump will look SO GOOD IN AN ORANGE JUMP SUIT!!!

OK not really LOOK good, but it will be good TO SEE HIM in one.


Because that means JUSTICE has been served.

[DallasNE]

100. That Means Nothing

The Trump defense is not based on the merits. They are first saying it is unconstitutional and they are forcing another vote on that issue before proceeding. It will fail but that is not the point. The messaging will not be on the merits of the case. It will be on that shiny object. Next, they are claiming it is protected free speech. In other words, it is all about messaging and the Democrats are not being effective in that area. Both will have their expert witnesses that will cancel out and that will result in a party line vote, more or less. But that too is about process and should be subject to majority rule. The defense will never get around to answering on the merits. I think the chances of conviction are about 2%. The wild card is how Sen Leahy will respond as presiding officer.

[RDANGELO]

102. It will mean something if public opinion turns against the Republican Party

and they lose badly in coming elections.