Re: Springsteen, 72. NHTSA manual says field sobriety tests weren't designed for people over 60.

[pnwmom]

Normal aging processes can make it difficult to stand on one leg or walk a straight line, among other things.

The more I think about his case (being arrested because a cop in a park saw him accept a shot of Tequila from a fan, and then sit on his motorcycle, and prepare to leave), the madder I get. Whoever heard of someone being arrested with a .02 blood alcohol?

https://www.post-gazette.com/business/legal/2011/04/18/Sobriety-test-result-tossed-out-due-to-age/stories/201104180130

Citing a National Highway Traffic Safety Administration manual and a 2002 Superior Court decision, President Judge Dominick Motto ruled that the test, as it applied to Danniel Weaver, was "unreliable."

"It is questionable that the one-leg test should have been administered to Ms. Weaver at all because Ms. Weaver was nearing the age of 60 at the time, and the NHTSA manual says field sobriety tests 'were not designed for persons over 60 years old,' " Judge Motto wrote.

https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s10979-007-9111-y

Original Article
Published: 06 October 2007

The Standardized Field Sobriety Tests: A Review of Scientific and Legal Issues

Abstract

This article details the history and development of the National Highway and Safety Administration’s Standardized Field Sobriety Tests. They are reviewed in terms of relevant scientific, psychometric, and legal issues. It is concluded that the research that supports their use is limited, important confounding variables have not been thoroughly studied, reliability is mediocre, and that their developers and prosecution-oriented publications have oversold the tests. Further, case law since their development has severed the tests from their validation data, so that they are not admissible on the criterion for which they were validated (blood alcohol concentration), and admissible for a criterion for which they were not (mental, physical, or driving impairment). Directions for further research are presented.

[BigmanPigman]

1. Bruce has the money to get a decent attorney

who knows these rules and can help sort this out.

[LizBeth]

2. I agree with you and further, I am surprised at the number of people that have really gone

after the man with a .02.

[cwydro]

5. People here?

Who has gone after him? I’ve missed that.

[obamanut2012]

9. There was an OP attacking him

And lots of replies in that thread that also did.

[cwydro]

36. Geez, not sorry I missed that.

With the love of drinking we see on this forum lol, that surprises me.

[obamanut2012]

39. hahaha seriously

[iemitsu]

3. Haha, the tests are designed for old people.

I will use that excuse if I need it.

[Liberal In Texas]

22. I think the point was they're NOT designed for old people.

I don't think I could close my eyes and stand on one foot anymore straight sober.

[iemitsu]

38. Me either and I'm so old I forgot to add the not.

[gldstwmn]

4. I don't get it.

He wasn't legally impaired.

[misanthrope]

6. Here's what's "to get"

Some LEO saw him and decided to lean on him. Why? Who knows but he engendered a ton of ill will among area law enforcement when he debuted "American Skin (41 Shots)," a 2001 song built around the tragic shooting death of Amadou Diallo at the hands of NYC law enforcement. His growing role in political campaigns of the last two decades has further angered conservatives.

It's gotten so bad that Springsteen's mild call for calming political extremism that aired during the Super Bowl generated right-wing backlash like this ill-conceived screed:

https://moremonmouthmusings.net/2021/02/09/%ef%bb%bfan-asbury-park-letter-to-springsteen-about-the-middle-commercial/?fbclid=IwAR2uNugPJze_bx8my4Uj5Rj16wzWq3mnZBqs5X3GoZKgk1fdHZtKNWXZS34

More than an indictment of Springsteen's motor vehicle decisions, this DWI incident is more an example of the capricious nature of police power.

[RobinA]

27. Yeah, This

Some police saw him take the shot and said, Shoot, that's Bruce Springsteen, I'll just mosey over and maybe hassle me some Bruce. You have to laugh. The police report mentioned slurred speech, glassy eyes, refused breathalyzer, blah, blah. And the blood alcohol turns out to be .02. A real lightweight, that Springsteen! Yes, Bruce behaved himself and he can afford a lawyer, but I think any legal rookie could handle this one.

[gldstwmn]

40. They write the same thing in

every DUI report I've ever seen. It's boiler plate for them. He could have blown .02 from mouthwash. I can't even believe there's a hearing.

[FSogol]

35. All true, except he wasn't charged with DWI, he was charged with DUI.

That's usually just a small fine.

[Mike Nelson]

7. Huh?

... this story just gets more weird... "accept a shot of Tequila from a fan" is not something I'd advise. Most celebrities would not "accept a shot of Tequila from a fan" in a public park (saw that in another story) and then get on a motorcycle! Also, if the blood alcohol level is under the limit, wouldn't they simply release him - thinking the case was poor? Or, were they concerned about him?
Was there something other than alcohol? Unfortunately, this Springsteen story is going to go on and on because nothing seems to fit...

[pnwmom]

8. Is there such a thing as a bottle that only holds a shot? Because some report

I read seemed to indicate it came in a little bottle. Also, they did the field sobriety tests first, and the cop wasn't satisfied with his walk and turn test, saying he was swaying. The tests were never designed for people over 60, however, and he's 72. Lots of older people have balance issues that would make that test difficult.

Others have written that in NJ the level of alcohol isn't the only factor; if they have other reasons for thinking someone's drunk, like the sobriety tests, that can be a reason to charge him.

[obamanut2012]

10. Yes, the small bottles are a ahot or so

And have been around forever.

[Mike Nelson]

12. Hmm...

... I guess, if it was a sealed bottle and he wanted a drink. Still, I'd wait until I got home!

[Mike Nelson]

11. I don't know...

... even if it was in a bottle, I would not drink something given to me by a fan in a park. The "over 60" defense is an interesting issue... surely it's come up in legal matters... many people over 60 are arrested.

[pnwmom]

14. Many older people are, and many attorneys are arguing

that it's unfair to subject them to tests that weren't designed for their age group and are more difficult for many of them to carry out.

[Liberal In Texas]

23. They're commonly called Airplane Bottles because it's what they give you (or used to give you)

when you order a cocktail on an airplane. It's one shot. Liquor stores around here also sell them. I have bought them so I could like have one of something without having to buy a whole pint or fifth.

[former9thward]

30. It was a 750 ml bottle.

Not little at all. And it was empty.

[Ms. Toad]

13. As to why they didn't simply release him many states have two means for charging impaired driving

One based on BAC, and another based on observations. The latter is typically a lot harder to prove.

[treestar]

31. It's DU - we have to jump to the conclusion

that are out to get him due to a 2001 song. They are cops, you know!

[gldstwmn]

41. I agree. Nothing about

this story adds up. Plus it seems like someone sat on it until after the Super Bowl ad aired.

[blueinredohio]

15. My whole life I could never walk a straight line.

[Tanuki]

18. Take it from Johnny Cash...

[dsc]

16. If I am ever arrested for DWI

which one hopes won't happen. I will demand a blood test. I could see failing a sobriety test as I age and given that physical competence isn't exactly my greatest asset. But I have been sober for a bit over 20 years so no way I fail a blood test.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

17. I remember

I remember years ago, an attorney came on TV and stated that the field sobriety tests are flawed. His quote was that " a car load of 70 year old nuns would fail a field sobriety test."

I do realize Springsteen blew here and that's another matter.

[Demsrule86]

21. He was below the limit. He will not be charged with DUI...just bullshit charge.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

26. Here in Illinois

My friend was driving to work after a night out drinking. He may have had 4 or 5 hours sleep. He got stopped by the cops for DUI. They took him in and towed his car. At the station he blew .03. They dropped the DUI charge but would not allow him to drive his car. He called me and I had to go pick him up.

[JI7]

19. I was actually thinking the issue was more about issues with aging

the more I read about it .

[Vinca]

20. I didn't realize he had such a low BAC. That arrest is stupid and will be tossed.

Back when dinosaurs roamed the earth and I was a cop I always wondered if I could pass some of those tests stone cold sober. And I was in my early 30's.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

24. I tried a DWI case in PA a while back-like more than 20 years ago

You can get a jury trial there. My client tested under the BAC level but was still charged based on his performance in the field sobriety tests and the officer's observations. On cross-examination I asked the arresting officer what the tests were. They sounded a bit difficult so I followed up with what was wrong with my client's performance during the sobriety test? He responded that he was swaying. So I asked what the surface at the side of the road was like-he stupidly responded "smooth as the floor of this courtroom". Lies always providing openings. I then said "well, then you can surely demonstrate the proper way of performing the test here". He said certainly. He got up from the chair, stood on one leg and promptly fell over and had to catch himself on the railing around the witness stand. My client passed me a note that said "ask him if he's been drinking".

[LiberalFighter]

25. Cops never lie. Do they? Great little story.

[RobinA]

28. My Father

was one of those who would never have been able to pass a field sobriety test stone sober in his 30's, let alone 74. The man couldn't stand on one foot with his eyes open to save his life. Nor could he walk a straight line. I, on the other hand, could pass that stuff with an amount of alcohol in me that had me pretty intoxicated. Not that I ever had to. Despite being a partier in my youth, I had a strict, no impaired driving rule.

[treestar]

32. LOL!

[DemocratSinceBirth]

34. It was on federal land.

As I understand it the open container charge provides the most legal exposure but it wasn't his open container.

[Dread Pirate Roberts]

37. Open Container is the same class of offense as DWI

A Class B federal misdemeanor with a fine and up to 6 months in jail. He was probably arrested by a National Park Ranger or Park Policeman. It doesn't get handled in municipal court like a typical DWI in NJ-you go to Federal court. November at Gateway is pretty desolate. Hikers, bird watchers, fishermen and a handful of people who just want to go look at the views (which are spectacular). I'm surprised they even bothered him-although there are hard-asses patrolling the park sometimes. Most of the time, particularly in the off-season, they just tell you to quit doing that and go home.

[former9thward]

29. Where is the proof he was at 0.02?

The media is quoting internet rumors and each other that it was 0.02. If it was why isn't Springsteen's attorney releasing the report? The attorney would have that.

[treestar]

33. So maybe they can run the ad again?

Cracked me up that they moved immediately to stop using the ad!