Hey, everybody. Forgive me for being a grammar cop but...

[brush]

I have to go there since trump called McTurtle "dour".

It rhymes with "tour" not with "sour".

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

1. I cringed a little when Brian Williams mispronounced it,

because he's usually pretty good about such things.

[TheBlackAdder]

48. The dottard knows what dour is. I'm sure he learned that term when people discussed his parents.

[spooky3]

2. Are you sure? I've always heard it pronounced

As the online sources pronounce it - like “sour.”

This source says both are acceptable:

https://www.grammarphobia.com/blog/2011/04/dour.html

[msfiddlestix]

8. me too. and I'm a really old lady whose been around for a while.

almost a century, and I've only heard the word Dour as rhyming with Sour.

[brush]

24. Most people think it sounds like sour because of how it's spelled but not according to...

Merriam-Webster.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour.

I was corrected on it a few year back.

[Laurelin]

56. I looked at the link

It gave both pronunciations. Either the language is changing (it happens)) or it's a dialect difference.

I'll keep rhyming with sour, which is how I've always heard it.

My family in West Texas used to pronounce "cord" as "card. " it always made me laugh. They used to laugh at how I said "hose." To each his dialect, and laughter.

[wackadoo wabbit]

64. I just went there. The first pronounciation was ˈdau̇(-ə)r like "sour"

That is indeed the only way I've ever heard it pronounced.

[llmart]

70. I have always pronounced it that way too.

I believe that's the most accepted way of pronouncing it.

[hlthe2b]

65. I will point out that Merriam-Webster is the first to include "nucular" as alternate for nuclear

It was then that MW lost a lot of its authority to me. I think, perhaps you should consider that they give into popular "misuse," to drive their decisions on pronunciation and sometimes, even spelling. I was not alone in finding this disturbing. They got "quite the earful" from scholars after doing so.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/help/faq-february-nuclear-pronounce


By the way, most alternate sources list "dour rhymes with sour" as the correct pronunciation, so I highly question your (and MW's) conclusion. Google "dour pronunciation." I'll go with the non-MW sources, given their capitulation to George W. Bush* and his ridiculous mispronunciation of nuclear as "nukular" (and yes, I am aware my beloved Jimmy Carter did so as well. We all make mistakes, but his supporters never pressured MW to change it to his version.

[tblue37]

95. MW is a descriptive rather than a prescriptive dictionary.

[Hortensis]

47. Me too. I'm from California, where dour's always been pronounced right. :)

Seriously, Williams' pronunciation is correct, and presumably so also is "dooor." I'd have had to ask what was meant if it was said that way to me, though.

[msfiddlestix]

74. I'm in California too, for 50 years..

but born and raised in the south. Always heard it the way we know it, never heard it said to rhyme with door. or d'jour.

What part of our great state are you located?

[Hortensis]

78. Lol, reverse here, transplant to GA and FL, but CA at heart,

Northern and gold-rush Sierras as a child, LA as an adult, no dissonance. How about you?

[msfiddlestix]

83. Sonoma County aka "wine country"

Redwoods mixed with a little chaparral and wetlands developed over them. Bodega Bay is 20 minutes away from my digs.

We are located the heart of the northern California fires past few years, though my specific location has been fortunately isolated from these.

It looks like we're likely in for another horrible fire season come late summer and fall as we are suffering yet another drought year. Of course the Rain Season isn't over and anything could change to where we do end up with unexpected rain and snow storms which could deliver much needed relief. Rolling blackouts has become our new normal which we're also sick of.

My daughter and her wife live in Oakland, but own property in Sonora and practically live there at least half of the time, especially this past year. They do a lot of recreation in the Sierra's including hiking, skiing, sledding. They say the Sierra's received copios amounts of snow from recent storms, and that's always good news.

[Hortensis]

94. I've always wanted to move back up there, so beautiful and cooler

yet still Mediterranean. I hate that it's so scary now, and the droughts and other extremes. Dour thoughts. Still beautiful.

When we moved away from L.A., 20 years of ongoing change ago now, we'd had 7 years of serious-to-severe drought in the previous 9. Our home, between two mountain ranges that had fires every year, could only have been burned after fire swept through hundreds of others, but now it's not just theoretically possible. Here in the east, though, L.A. can have wildfire minutes from downtown and it won't be reported unless to mention possibility of spread to Malibu.

My half sister lives way inland in the lower Sierras NE of Sacramento. Cheers for the good snowfall, all right. Extreme fire danger has been normal for decades, but like yours, her community has so far escaped. At least the main road up is a through road, and there are a number of ridge roads twisting out also. As the fires get going, though, I'll once again be checking the reports for her area every day.

[msfiddlestix]

100. When I migrated from NC in 1970, it was actually SoCal.. a year later I discovered NoCal

Such a mighty difference. I landed in Sonoma County and I knew the moment I arrived I would be calling this place my home.

Reagan was Gov but then Jerry Brown was elected.. and well. lot's of history in the past 50+ years. We've certainly had our ups and downs politically. And environmentally. Just so happy that Biden is in the WH, and somehow we've got to keep Newsom from getting recalled for stupid miss-steps on covid shutdown. Recall is being funded by dark money via New Gingrich and cohorts

I think we'll succeed, but we can't take it for granted. Boy howdy a lot of work to slog through to defeat the QOP ..

[Hortensis]

102. Boy howdy, all right. I remember when that supposed Chinese curse

about interesting times sounded a lot more appealing than sinister. And spiteful. This too will pass, just hopefully without the traditional famine experience first.

[BeerBarrelPolka]

103. Were you near

A few years ago there was a rather strange abduction that took place in No.Ca. I cannot remember the exact location. Young woman named Sherri Papini. Are you familiar?

[brush]

16. See Merriam-Webster link below.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[spooky3]

19. There are multiple sites that say both pronunciations are fine. Nt

[catrose]

27. Isn't the first option shown (dauer, approximately) pronounced like sour?

[brush]

37. Did you click the mic icon that pronounces it?

[catrose]

38. Yes, but I'm in Tx & lucky to see text on screen. Video & sound not playing

[msfiddlestix]

75. I guess it's one of those words that morphed in terms of pronunciation.

Like Schedule and we can make a considerable list... I think.

[brush]

20. See Merriam-Webster link below.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[spooky3]

26. Repeating the same post isn't effective. Nt

[brush]

32. Meh! I'll repeat this one again. You say tomahto, I say tomato...

Let's you and I call the whole thing off.

[brush]

25. See link below.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[whathehell]

34. Me too..I've never heard it pronounced any other way

but as a rhyme with "sour". :

[Demovictory9]

60. me too

[lapfog_1]

3. I am skeptical

https://www.google.com/search?q=prnounce+dour&oq=prnounce+dour&aqs=chrome..69i57j0i13l4j0i22i30l3.8523j1j15&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8

sounds like sour to me...

[brush]

18. See Merriam-Webster link below.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[lapfog_1]

36. I did

and I pressed the "speaker" button

and it rhymes with sour.

just like my link.

[brush]

40. Sorry, it has two mic icons, one for each pronunciation. You are right.

I was corrected on it years ago, but it seems the sour sound is the American preferred pronunciation and the tour sound is British. Let's call the whole thing off.

[left-of-center2012]

4. I just googled it

It can be pronounced similar to tour or tower.

In my 74 years of life I have always heard it pronounced similar to tower.

Dour tower

[ret5hd]

5. Man, all this time I've been pronouncing...

“tour” incorrectly...

Tower...tower...man, that just don’t seem right.

[trc]

6. Dour pronounced dowar (sour) is an American pronunciation and perfectly acceptable

[fishwax]

7. I forgive you, brush ... but either pronunciation is acceptable

and most American dictionaries now include both. British dictionaries, I'm guessing, would be more likely to exclude the "sour" pronunciation.

[canetoad]

49. Strangely enough

My digital Oxford Concise lists both pronounciations as correct.

[Progressive Jones]

9. Pronounced like "sour" is the only way I've ever heard "dour". nt

[brush]

12. I'll go with Merriam-Webster everytime. See link below.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[spooky3]

22. You can't be a pronunciation cop by insisting that everyone use the

site you want, when there are other sources that are just as reliable that say otherwise. If you’re going to correct Brian Williams, you need unequivocal evidence.

And here is another “Merriam Webster” source that says it rhymes with “tower”: https://www.merriam-webster.com/words-at-play/the-difference-between-dour-vs-dower

[brush]

28. You say tomahto, I say tomato. Let's call the whole thing off.

[brush]

14. See Merriam-Webster link below.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[brush]

15. See Merriam-Webster link below

https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/dour

[sweetloukillbot]

31. You keep posting that link...

You realize the first pronunciation listed is like sour?

[brush]

41. Yes, I see that now. The tour sound is the British pronunciation.

I was corrected on pronouncing it with the sour sound years ago by someone who preferred the British pronunciation.

[mr_lebowski]

10. Also, this is not a grammatical point ...

Not to be a pronunciation cop

[unblock]

21. Now you're being a diction cop

[Disaffected]

11. "Tour"

(north of 49th).

[applegrove]

13. My mom grew up in New Scotland (Nova Scotia). They had gaelic speakers

there when she was young. She pronounced in "tour" like you said.

[madamesilverspurs]

17. Well, where I grew up

it was pronounced "hypocritical shitweasel sumbitch". Probably a regional thing. . .


.

[Kali]

43. !

[stopdiggin]

50. Oh. And WORSE than that.

Just depending on the amount of tailwind ...... and lubrication involved!

----- --- --- -----

[Progressive Jones]

23. Too many cops... LOL

[ecstatic]

29. Count me in the tower / sour camp

If someone pronounced it like door, I wouldn't know what the hell they were talking about. That's assuming that you pronounce tour like door. 🤔

[Doreen]

33. I have always pronounced it like "sour" .

My mother never corrected me and being an English major I do not question her.

[dweller]

35. So it's 'door'

not DUer ... or Dior, or d’jour, or dower, nor donut

damn, I said it rong

✌🏻

[brush]

39. Witty is good. Is it tomahto or tomato? Or should we call the whole thing off?

[dweller]

46. It's a love apple

and I pronounce it doer, as in do er(ur)

✌🏻

[Earthshine2]

42. I hate to be grammar-cop-internal affairs, but ...

those periods need to be inside of the quotation marks.

I don't make the rules, but I do enjoy enforcing them.

https://www.grammarly.com/blog/quotation-marks/

I have always heard it pronounced as rhyming with "sour."

[brush]

44. I stand corrected on the period. It turns out both sound are ok.

Sour is American, tour is British.

[Earthshine2]

45. One can avoid these types of problems this way ...

Sour is American, tour is British.

[Celerity]

51. yes, but we say tour differently than US folk do

It is almost a silent r for us Brits (of course this is based off standard RP English, if we start dealing with regional UK accents then it all goes pear shaped rather quickly, lol).

[Celerity]

53. 'periods need to be inside of the quotation marks' is wrong for me (I am UK raised)

unless the quotation is also a complete sentence or the punctuation is part of the quotation.

We also call them full stops, not periods.

British English typically does not put a full stop (period) after an abbreviation.

Dr
Mrs
Jr

and

"sour" instead of 'sour' is pretty sure sign that the poster is American (unless it is a nested quotation, then we are the opposite of the US).

lastly

What you call a parenthesis, we call a bracket.

(
)

[Earthshine2]

59. So, what's your excuse for not beginining your sentences with capitals?

The Queen's English demands proper capitalization!

I completely agree that your description of how to use periods and quotes makes more sense than how we do it in American English.

[Celerity]

68. capitalisation

lol

Cheers!

🌞🌞🌞🌞🌞

[DFW]

52. Sounds like the case of pronouncing "clerk" or "schedule"

In England, it‘s „clark“ and „shedule.“
In the States , for the most part, anyway, it‘s „clrk“ and „skedewel.“

If you want a high arrest record as a grammar cop, go after people who use an apostrophe to form a plural. There is no elementary school anywhere in the English-speaking world that teaches kids to use an apostrophe to form a plural. Despite that, one constantly sees posts with sentences like „I hear the Biden‘s hired someone to walk their dog‘s so they could visit other country‘s.“ Any third grader should be able to spot that all three apostrophes do not belong there in English (they do in Republicanese). In English, that sentence reads, „I hear the Bidens hired someone to walk their dogs so they could visit other countries.“

And yet, every week (it feels like every day), you will see posts—even on DU—using an apostrophe to form a plural. I have no idea where people learn to do this. Maybe Fox has their own secret Sesame Street? Of course, on Fox, it would be called Hemlock Street.

[brush]

54. Agreed. It's and its is another one.

[DFW]

62. Here is a quick guide

EXCERPTS FROM THE OFFICIAL DICTIONARY OF REPUBLICANESE

In Republicanese, many words that sound alike may be spelled differently at random. A few prominent examples:

In Republicanese, the following words may be spelled at random using any of the three ways given:

A.) Two, Too, To
B.) Their, They're, There
c.) Your, Yore, You're

The Republicanese version of Robin Hood therefore starts with "In days of you're...."

The only rule is that the correct use of them as in English is never permitted twice in a row.

Words with single letters that change meaning when that letter is doubled must never be used in correct English context. The classic example is “lose” vs. “loose.” In Republicanese, if you do not win an election, then you “loose” that election. Conversely, if your (Republicanese: you’re) belt is too tight, you need it more “lose” in order to be comfortable. Another example would be the Republicanese, “I met Donald Trump, and he was rudder than I imagined,” vs. “I grabbed the ruder and was able to steer the boat to shore.”

In Republicanese, as opposed to English, an apostrophe is used to form a plural. But it must be done at random, never systematically. For example, Bill and Hillary are "the Clinton's," but Bill, Chelsea and Hillary are "the Clintons." The other way around is also correct. In Republicanese, either form is correct as long as it is not spelled the same way twice in a row.

[brush]

80. Very entertaining, DFW. I could go on reading your stuff for a while.

[DFW]

91. Be careful. I have roped people into reading my book with less effort

Granted, most have lived to the tale, but the ones that didn‘t haven't spoken to me since.

[brush]

93. What's the book?

[DFW]

96. Oh, some crazy story, as you might expect

Especially with some minor encouragement from people like Dr. Ruth and Stan Lee.

Sort of a historical fiction/science fiction/romance with introductory courses in vintage wines, rare coins, and French woven in, along with casual chats with Thomas Jefferson and a genius Guatemalan assistant who writes like Shakespeare and speaks Cantonese, but speaks English like Speedy Gonzales. I‘ll find you the Amazon link and post it here so you can read the reviews and draw your own conclusions as to whether or not you want to pursue it any further.

Even Norm Ornstein left a review.

I got some of my background on Jefferson from a book by Thom Hartmann, and he even talked about my book for about 3 minutes on his show a few years back!

*On edit: just go to Amazon books and pull up "The Time Cellar" My favorite review was the one by Rene Rondeau (no idea who that is), but I got several nice ones, and a few less nice ones--as is to be expected. Let me know if that works for you. If not, I'll get you some more detailed information.

[nolabear]

97. I bought it for my wine aficionado sci fi fantasy loving son.

Perfect Christmas gift!

[brush]

104. Thank you. I will follow up.

[Hermit-The-Prog]

55. Yeah? Well, resources doesn't have a 'z' and "Celsius" is pronounced "centigrade".

Paraphrasing from the free dictionary:

The pronunciation of dour
which rhymes with sour
has been around for more
than a century's tour.

[brush]

81. This has been an interesting and lively thread. DUers can be quite witty.

[Laurelin]

57. Hey, can we talk about "vitamin" now?

It cracks me up whenever Dr John Campbell says "vitamin d." Also "calcifidiol."

Also, I need subtitles when I watch Midsomer Murders.

[obamanut2012]

58. I have only heard it pronounced like sour

Including by academics and journalists.

It is a correct pronunciation.

[moonscape]

61. I should have read the thread

before dashing off on a Google ‘how to pronounce’ panic. Was genuinely floored and relieved I’ve not been laughed at behind my back all these last considerable decades.

Not on this account, anyway.

[DeminPennswoods]

63. If it's pronounced like "tour", then it will come out

sounding like "door" which would be confusing.

[hlthe2b]

66. I will point out that Merriam-Webster is the first to include "nucular" as alternate for nuclear

It was then that MW lost a lot of its authority to me. I think, perhaps you should consider that they (along with other American English-language dictionaries) give into popular "misuse," to drive their decisions on pronunciation and sometimes, even spelling. I was not alone in finding this disturbing. They got "quite the earful" from scholars after doing so.

https://www.merriam-webster.com/help/faq-february-nuclear-pronounce


By the way, most alternate sources list "dour rhymes with sour" as the correct pronunciation, so I highly question your (and MW's) conclusion. Google "dour pronunciation." I'll go with the non-MW sources, given their capitulation to George W. Bush* and his ridiculous mispronunciation of nuclear as "nukular" (and yes, I am aware my beloved Jimmy Carter did so as well. We all make mistakes, but his supporters never pressured MW to change it to his version.

Both pronunciations of dour are acceptable in standard English per the American Standard Dictionary:

A: These days, “dour” can properly be pronounced either way, to rhyme with “tour” or “tower.” But it wasn’t always so.

At one time, this adjective meaning stern, obstinate, or gloomy had only one pronunciation, the one with the OO sound.

A usage note in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.) says “dour, which is etymologically related to duress and endure, traditionally rhymes with tour.”

“The variant pronunciation that rhymes with sour is, however, widely used and must be considered acceptable,” American Heritage adds.

[hlthe2b]

67. American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language: " both are acceptable."

A usage note in The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language (4th ed.) says “dour, which is etymologically related to duress and endure, traditionally rhymes with tour.”

“The variant pronunciation that rhymes with sour is, however, widely used and must be considered acceptable,” American Heritage adds.

[Roisin Ni Fiachra]

69. Huh. Thank you.

Didn't know that. If I'm not careful, I end up learning learn new things here all the time.

[obamanut2012]

79. Except saying it "dour" is the norm

Unless you live in the UK. The OP is mistaken.

[brush]

82. See post 67.

[kcr]

71. I have never heard it pronounced that way. Ever.

Sorry, I'm going to keep pronouncing it the way I've always heard it.

[llmart]

72. I may have missed it but...

I'd much rather see a discussion on the spelling and capitalization of the words "Capitol and capital." So many of the news articles I read online had some egregious grammar and spelling when using that word.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

73. Abolish the police, including grammar cops.

[brush]

84. I should've known this would come up. Very good, WG.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

85. Decarcerate your mind, and the rest will follow!

[raccoon]

76. Well, maybe you can tell us what this means:

“ Texas is a vicious place ran by a coterie of increasingly moist and precious men.”

https://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Texas-ERCOT-power-outages-grid-Twitter-Abbott-15954018.php

[brush]

86. I'll pass. I wouldn't know where to begin. But wow, what a sentence.

[MineralMan]

77. Incorrect. It can be pronounced both ways.

In the USA, the rhyming with "sour" is most common. In the UK, the other pronunciation is most common.

This is a silly criticism of Trump. There are many valid criticisms, but this isn't one of them.

[brush]

88. It's not really of trump. We know he didn't write that.

It's been a fun thread, though.

[lettucebe]

87. Oh wow, thank you! I've pronounced it incorrectly all this time.

I love grammar, so thank you.

[brush]

89. Well, I've learned something from this thread also. Turns out both...

pronunciations are correct—the sour pronunciation is how most Americans pronounce it. Pronouncing it to sound like tour is British. I was once corrected long ago when I pronounced it like sour so I have to stand corrected by many on this thread.

However, check out post #67, so maybe not.

[jayfish]

90. Well, First Off...

it's a pronunciation issue rather than a "grammar" issue. Secondly, no, it's not pronounced do-err. It is in fact pronounced dow-err. Finally, with the myriad accents that permeate this country; who cares?

[brush]

92. See posts 67 and 49.

[Mike 03]

99. Are you English, Scottish or Canadian?

My Canadian relatives likely pronounce it that way.

[MyNameGoesHere]

101. Why would orange Anus call turtle a door?