Manchin needs to be threatened with a primary.

[Yavin4]

Biden's agenda cannot be held hostage by Manchin's fee-fees. One more step out of line, and he gets primaried.

I know. I know. Some of you get the vapors because we need him to keep the majority, but here's where you're thinking is off. We won't keep the majority if Biden's agenda fails or Biden looks weak because he cannot get his agenda through the congress. We have to act as if this slim majority is our only chance to get things back on track.

And if one of our own wants to play Maverick, then s/he needs to be shut down. I could see it if Biden has some kind of wild ass agenda, but he doesn't. In fact, it's supported by a majority of the nation.

It's time to primary Manchin. Enough of this guy.

--On Edit--
For those of you who want to argue that we won't have the majority without Manchin. Well, we currently don't even have it now with Manchin.

[EarlG]

1. How would a primary threaten Manchin though?

He would laugh off a more progressive challenger (see his 40 point victory over Paula Jean Swearengin in 2018). So what's the plan, primary him with another moderate? A more conservative Democrat?

Seems to me that Manchin is in that seat for as long as he wants it -- or until he is defeated by a Republican. Perhaps a better focus would be on winning Senate seats elsewhere and increasing our majority, so that Manchin's interference becomes irrelevant.

[spooky3]

4. Agree. And DC should be given statehood. Nt

[Celerity]

46. filibuster, so no go

[spooky3]

53. Dems can end it. See last paragraph.

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.washingtonpost.com/local/dc-politics/dc-statehood-hearing/2021/02/21/24cf80a2-746e-11eb-8115-9ad5e9c02117_story.html%3foutputType=amp

[Celerity]

55. Manchin, Sinema, Feinstein (and maybe more) will not vote to end the filibuster. nt

[Hortensis]

56. Manchin and Sinema in low-population, overall conservative states

won't for sure. Their conservative constituents would run them out of office for good reason.

But why Feinstein? CA is a giant, advanced, Democratic-dominated state that today's southern-culture conservatives use the filibuster to impose their minority interests on. ?

[Celerity]

62. Because she is an institutionalist relic. She opposes SCOTUS expansion as well.

I so hope she soon retires. I have other issues with here as well (she is one of my 2 Senators). In 2018 I voted for Kevin de León in both the primary and general (the general was Dem versus Dem) but alas, he was simply buried by money. De León did break the record for most votes won by a losing Senate candidate, and became the first person in US history to get 5 million votes in a Senate election and lose.

[Hortensis]

64. Well, but the filibuster is specifically NOT an institution but a corruption

of the institution. Specifically, southern conservatives managed in a time of power to impose the modern form of the filibuster to break the institution and be able to impose minority choices on majorities. I.e., to overset the majority rule our framing fathers created.

As for de Leon, remember that senators have to appeal to a majority of the voters of whole states, and CA is huge and extremely diverse, with many millions of Democrats who lean conservative on many issues, especially LatinX.

Feinstein won because she's the incumbent who ran on the same the winning mix (1 cup liberal plus a half cup conservative) that she has -- and has always come through on -- all her career. De Leon ran left of moderate liberals as an iconoclast, young new blood with exciting new ideas -- versus a hidebound, warmongering, corporatist conservative way past her discard date. And lost.

These days, when candidates can go directly and comparatively inexpensively to the electorate, it can't all be blamed on money. Notably, though, plenty of people invested bucks in him, including many working to replace her with a Republican senator, and he got tons of media support, a whole bunch from the left of course, but also a bunch from RW influencers for the same reason.

In the end, a majority of voters chose Feinstein. Blame "the People."

[Celerity]

69. De Leon was hardly some wild-eyed leftie, he was President pro temp of the CA Senate

He also was out fundraised 21.1m usd to 1.57m usd.

[Hortensis]

71. I didn't say he was. I know who he was. We still get the LA Times

even though we left CA 20 years aog.

Since you mention it, though, a bunch of dysfunctional-left supporters were just that. They'd do better to realize that the angry factional hostility they believe was fully warranted tends to alarm and repel mainstream voters, but especially liberals. You know, "If those people like him...!" Nonfactual claims sell far less well to mainstream voters than to their true believers, especially when the target's been around so long people feel they know him or her.

But extremists won't realize and can't exercise some discipline. This is a severe problem for strong liberals hoping to elect a change candidate. Extremists also refuse to realize that they made a great tool for both De Leon's and Feinstein's ' common enemies and that their messages were augmented, not for their own ultimate victory, but for that of De Leon's and Feinstein's common enemies'.

When you consider the success the Republicans have had in claiming socialists and lawless "haters" of America control the Democratic Party, the value of a relative few "wild-eyed lefties" to them, and their problem for De Leon, is very obvious. He's hardly the first or the 5000th candidate or organization their flooding in to provide their wild-eyed sort of support has helped sink.

[spooky3]

60. Let's see what happens. Deals are known to be made in Washington. Nt

[radius777]

51. A conservative Dem like Gov Jim Justice could win.

Justice was a D but switched to R - and he comes across as much more populist than Manchin.

WV is 'red' but is really a conservative-left state that has historically elected Dems to the Senate (Byrd, Rockefeller, Manchin).

Manchin needs to understand he's not as special as he thinks, and he can be replaced if we have the right candidate. Not that we're going to do it but just threat of it to light a fire under his ass. WV is a poor state and needs the things Biden is proposing.

[Big Blue Marble]

2. Do you understand the politics in WV?

Manchin is a half of loaf Democratic. I would rather have half a loaf than
no loaf at all. Manchin is popular with his base. He will beat any primary
challange. We need to learn to live with him period.

[Yavin4]

5. if Biden's agenda and his cabinet picks fail because of Manchin...

what will you say to the voters in the mid term elections of 2022?

[JI7]

10. Do you not understand the political differences among different states ?

This is like a Republican saying Susan Collins needs to be Primaried by someone more right wing.

[Big Blue Marble]

13. Let's not assume that whole agenda will fail.

Some aspects will not pass. I am confident that Manchin will vote for the reconciliation legislation
for the stimulus, for infrastructure, and other legislation that will help his state.

Manchin is not going to change with threats and rage. We need more Democratic senators, period.
Until then the Administration will do the best it can with the hand it has been dealt.

[Midnightwalk]

28. If he isn't worried about a primary

Then how does the primary threat help us in 22?

I’m not sure saying “but we’re trying to get rid of the one democrat who blocked us” helps much.

I know I’m not offering any better alternative. Just asking how you see that as effective when Manchin likely isn’t worried about a primary threat.

There might be more effective arm twisting, but that might be private. I’m thinking in terms of WV projects.

[radius777]

52. Manchin is to the right of his state on economics. /nt

[rzemanfl]

3. Look for a PM. n/t

[msongs]

6. give WV an $11 min wage to make manchin happy and $15 to everyone else nt

[Sur Zobra]

59. Excellent suggestion!

[MineralMan]

7. Primary Manchin; Get a Republican in His Place.

It's very simple. Manchin votes with the Democratic Caucus most of the time. A Republican will vote with it none of the time.

He is a Senator from West Virginia. West Virginia will not elect a more progressive Senator. It is that freaking simple.

In which state do you live?

Work on your own state and local elections. Unless you live in West Virginia, you have nothing to offer in that state.

[Yavin4]

8. Currently and effectively, Manchin is a Republican.

He's doing more to thwart Biden than any Republican is at the moment.

Also, I never said, "run a Bernie-style progressive" in W.Va. I'm saying, run a Biden loyalist in W.Va

[JI7]

12. No he isn't. Without Manchin McConnell would control the Senate ?

[still_one]

25. +++

[MineralMan]

14. You are incorrect in that assessment of Manchin.

Woefully incorrect.

Again, in which state do you live and vote? Let's look at your representation, as well.

[unblock]

16. Except for the fact that he's not.

If he were effectively a Republican, mcturtle would be the majority leader and republicans would be running all the committees and all legislation and appointments would be d.o.a. and all the senate would do would be investigate hunter and other made-up scandals.

Yeah he's our most conservative democratic senator but he's there for us most of the time and way more than the most "liberal" Republican, not that there's such a thing anymore...

Frankly it's incredible to have a democratic senator from a state like West Virginia. Try getting a democratic senator in Wyoming or Idaho then we can talk about how a better democratic senator from such deeply red states is somehow possible.

[BGBD]

21. You don't understand the republican that would replace Manchin

Would be a full on Trump clone. Some of Manchins recent challengers have wanted to do things like eliminate the federal minimum wage and the EPA.

Be careful what you wish for.

The republicans he has beaten would be to the right of Cruz and Hawley if they were in his seat today.

[mcar]

39. No,he is not

He gives us the majority. He votes with Dems most of the time.

I deplore his hypocritical stance on Tanden. But he is not a Republican. If he was Moscow Mitch would be in charge and none of Biden's nominees would get confirmed.

[JI7]

9. Democrats in west Virginia are mostly right wing.

If want Manchin to have less influence than the solution is to get more democratic senators.

Focus on MORE Democrats winning in other states like Pennsylvania where we have a good chance of picking up a seat.

Not on some primary where the end result is either Manchin or a Republican wins.

[11 Bravo]

11. Your "on edit" statement is simply not true.

Yes, Manchin may occasionally wander off the ranch, but with a huge majority of his votes, he aligns with the current Dem majority. Compare his votes to those of the other (Republican) Senator from WV, Shelley Moore Capito, then tell me you want to roll the dice on judges, legislation, and maybe even a SCOTUS nominee.

[Fiendish Thingy]

20. Manchin votes with Dems just about 60% of the time, getting judges confirmed requires his vote

Which is not a given. If he sabotages Biden’s agenda, and won’t vote to confirm Biden’s appointees/nominees, then the Senate majority is useless at this time, other than to control hearings and investigations.

[Orangepeel]

15. Or, spend that effort and money on electing democratic senators in PA, WI and NC

not to mention reelecting Warnock in GA

[Stallion]

17. This Was Caused by Democratic Senatorial Failures in North Carolina, Maine, Iowa etc

I called Manchin the most powerful politician in Washington D.C. the night we made it 50/50. Not a big shock here. Its classic power politics and mainline Democratics did not win enough Senate races to avoid the Manchin road-block. We'd still be more effective by concentrating on states we can and should win than primarying Manchin thereby making Manchin vote insignificant

[Big Blue Marble]

19. Brilliantly and concisely said. N/T

[FSogol]

24. Exactly. Plus Manchin just issued a statement supporting Haaland's nomination for Interior. n/t

[Fiendish Thingy]

18. With Manchin's obstruction, we only control confirmations of judges, and only if he votes

To confirm.

Biden or Schumer or Harrison need to have a come-to-jeebus talk with Manchin, to let him know that his obstruction will end his senate career in 2024, whereas his support of Biden’s agenda (including killing the filibuster), will result in the full support from the DNC in his re-election bid in 2024, with no primary opponent.

[Big Blue Marble]

23. There are only two factors that will determine

if Manchin's senate career extends beyond 2023, Manchin and the voters of West Virginia.

Manchin would beat any primary challengers and the whole process would just waste
a lot of money that would better serve the Senate candidates in Wisconsin, Pennsylvania,
and North Carolina. Let's just hope Manchin wants to be reelected in 24. If he retires,
the seat goes Republican.

You sound like a Republican threatening to primary anyone who deviates from the
mainstream of the party. We need to understand the regional differences in many
parts of the country will yield a variety of Democrats across the spectrum of
politics and respect that, if we want to be a Big Tent Party that remains the majority
party for years to come.

[Fiendish Thingy]

38. We have a once in a century opportunity to make substantive change

Any Dem who blocks Biden’s agenda should become political roadkill.

If the relief bill doesn’t pass, if the Voting Rights Act doesn’t pass, if the Green Jobs bill doesn’t pass, then Dems WILL lose their majorities, not just in 2022, but likely for a decade or more. In addition, pending legislation in several states (which would be overruled by the VRA) will make it even harder for Dems to win the WH, even with 5+% margins in swing states, and make it easier for Republican legislatures to overturn the will of the voters as some states contemplated in 2020.

This is not politics as usual, Dems MUST deliver for voters, as well as pass the Voting Rights bill, or the fascists will regain power, with or without Trump.

This chance won’t come again, and if Manchin blocks it, he must suffer consequences.

[BGBD]

26. End his Senate career???

You keep saying that and it keeps not being true.

You don't seem to grasp that being seen as independent of Biden or Schumer makes Manchin MORE likely to win in '24.

There is nothing they could do to hurt him in WV, not even in a primary.

[Fiendish Thingy]

35. You haven't been paying attention- $15 min wage is hugely popular- Manchin's veto will doom him

Numerous organizations are pressuring Manchin to support the relief bill as is, and if he doesn’t, and if he continues to sabotage Biden’s agenda, they will pummel him with negative ads over the next four years.

Manchin won re-election in 2018 by 3%/19,000 votes. It’s not hard to imagine his approval rating plummeting over the next four years if he becomes the media’s villain due to sabotaging Biden’s agenda, and increasing the suffering of people in WV. Negative ads could easily convince 19,000 of the poorest Dem voters to not vote for Manchin.

If a populist candidate runs against him in the primary, he could have a tough time, and even if he wins the nomination, if the GOP runs a candidate who excites their base, all bets are off.

Manchin’s best bet is to deliver for his constituents with tangible, pocketbook results, including $15 min wage and Green Jobs Bill, otherwise his future in the senate is far from certain, especially if the DNC refuses to support his campaign.

[Fiendish Thingy]

70. No inside info- very public- Move On, Poor People's Campaign and others. Nt

[Grasswire2]

22. Charlie Pierce said Manchin needs a slapdown. nt

[padah513]

27. Paul Wellstone said that he is for the Democratic wing of the Democratic party.

Which wing is Manchin for? I say kick him to the curb. Four years of letting Trump's crap go by without a whimper. One month of Biden's agenda, and he's threatening to block everything like he's Dikembe Mutombo. I know how important his vote is right now, but if Democrats won't stand up for Democratic values, what are they? Republicans

[badhair77]

29. We need to get through more Dems in other states, then

we don’t have to worry about him being the tie-breaker. He’s enjoying the power that role brings him right now. At this point W VA is not going to give us a progressive Dem, just one that will keep McConnell from being the majority leader.

[marble falls]

30. Bad idea. He still votes with the President more than any Republican does.

[Jilly_in_VA]

31. Maybe

Rich Ojeda could be sufficiently popular to do it. He's still pretty conservative as Dems go, a populist, but he has a following among a certain strain of WV voters.

[Amishman]

32. LOL! Enjoy handing the Pubs another senate seat

Wake up.

Manchin is a unicorn given the landscape of current WV politics. No one to his left would ha e a chance. Even a similar blue dog would likely lose. He is a legacy candidate of a WV that is completely gone.

Be glad we have him

[Azathoth]

33. Manchin is the most powerful man in the country for the next 2 years

He represents an electorate that is 80% in the Trump camp. Let him spend most of his time posturing over appointments and meaningless things. Pay him whatever bribes he demands.

When he crosses us on a major vote, then primary him.

[aikoaiko]

34. Nobody gets everything they want. Having alternate nominees is expected.

[Klaralven]

36. Manchin is up for election in 2024

In his last election, he was primaried in 2018. He won the primary with 70% of the vote.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joe_Manchin#2018

[gldstwmn]

37. We need to pick up more seats.

[Hekate]

40. Manchin needs to be asked how his daughter is doing with the EpiPen she gouged sick people with

That is, the price of Epi-Pens was jacked up 400% overnight

I thought Martin Shkreli was the only villain in this story, but I just found out this morning that Manchin’s daughter was CEO of the business at the time, and made a shit ton of money off it.

And Neera Tanden criticized her. Oh the horror. So Manchin is going to scotch Tanden’s appointment.

Nobody has to wait for a primary to go after Manchin. They just have to start asking him how his daughter’s career is going, and mention for the record why they are interested.

[Hekate]

49. That said, I am not, repeat not, in favor of chucking him out

[JCMach1]

41. That seat is lost when Manchin goes. We would need to pick up a seat elsewhere...

[former9thward]

42. Do you have $10 million to primary him?

That is what it would cost. At minimum.

[clutterbox1830]

43. That will be foolish.

I think any D beside Manchin will have a really tough time winning statewide election in WV. Most of WV is really hardcore RW. Trump won the state by 40% and Shelley Capito won her senate race by 53%. No counties went democratic in 2020. Outside Wyoming, there is probably no more Republican heavy state in the union. Even Alabama is more progressive. If you expect any other D to win a statewide Senate race, you are kidding yourself.

Also, you said that Manchin is no better than a Republicans is not accurate. He votes D way more than any Republican and also without Manchin we would lose control of the Senate.

[Raine]

44. Apparently he does what the people who voted for him

and put him in office want him to do.

[MineralMan]

63. Unfortunately, the OP won't disclose his own state,

so we have no idea who represents that state in the Senate. I feel pretty certain the poster does not live in WV, though.

[sir pball]

47. Do the words

"Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer" mean a goddamned thing to you?

You do understand, that if we're going to have a 49-51 loss anyway, it may as well be on our terms?

Even if Manchin were to vote with the Rs 100% of the time, and for all I care he can as long as he keeps the (D), WE STILL SET THE FUCKING AGENDA.

[TuskMoar]

48. Wouldn't It Be a Lot Easier

To just take a senate seat from the GOP? Maybe we can win TX next term. What is our best chance of actually winning the next senate seat from the GOP instead of primarying Manchin. If we could win more seats, Manchin would lose his power.

[JonLP24]

50. Manchin giving Democrats control of the Senate means

Schumer can introduce legislation but if Republicans do their usual obstruction and Manchin joins them then key legislation can be killed.

$15 minimum wage is a popular policy which is why minimum wage increases often pass state ballot measures. Manchin's constituents are speaking out in favor of $15 wage and I support it here in Arizona. I notice Kelly isn't trying to pull these tricks like Sinema or Manchin but he is up for reelection in 2 years.

[kcr]

54. Yes, we still have the majority

You aren't entitled to your own facts.

[Autumn]

57. No need to primary him. We need to concentrate on electing Senators in Purple or blue states.

Focus everything on getting more Dems elected in other states and he becomes just another Senator against everything the people need. WV wants a Republican they can have a moderate Republican.

[Happy Hoosier]

58. I share your frustration.... but no.

Primarying him would accomplish less than zero.

What we need to do is show him that he can sell these policies to the people of WV. Simply put, these policy positions are broadly popular. If he embraces them and promotes them, they will help him, and the nation, not hurt him.

[Polybius]

61. He'll laugh in the face of anyone who primary's him

Democrats in WV are just like him. They love him.

[Yeehah]

65. Manchin voted for the ACA and voted to convict Trump

We are fortunate to have a Democratic senator in WV with the popularity of Manchin. Otherwise, we would have two republican shitstains like Shelley Moore Capito.

[FrankBooth]

67. Nope

"For those of you who want to argue that we won't have the majority without Manchin. Well, we currently don't even have it now with Manchin."


Minority leader Mitch McConnell disagrees with this statement. Ranking member of the Judiciary Committee Lindsey Graham disagrees with this statement.

But I'm sure both would be extremely happy with a challenge to Manchin from the left that would allow them to retain the powerful roles they both feel so entitled to.