I support the Seuss (Geisel) family's decision, but I think they're wrong about On Beyond Zebra

[Bucky]

For people not lucky enough to have read this gem, On Beyond Zebra is an alphabetic bestiary as only Ted Seuss Geisel could concoct. It's an exploration of the secret alphabet that exists out past the letter Z. When I read it to my daughter years ago, it blew her mind. It helped open up the world of the unseen in the galloping rhythm of Seuss poetics. It's typical humanistic pro-imagination, pro-exploration children's literature that we value in creating liberal minds and critical thought (I'm a teacher; we really talk this way).

But see for yourself. The whole book is here online.
This first video has the full page illustrations (the static image before play is of Flunnel)

But this second video has a much better audio reading. I recommend this version, but the other is there if you want to see the pages unzoomed.

The offending character who got this book discontinued is to be the Nazzim of Bazzim (as you'll see in the text, you pronounce it "nazm of bazm" rather than "nazeem of bazeem" ). While the character seems to have some slight cultural referents to pre-modern middle eastern royalty (wearing ottoman pants & a stylized agal), the content is hardly negative, stereotypical, or pejorative. The character's portrayal is iconicly Seussian and his behavior benign (he travels on a horned semi-camel carrying a lot of ordinary, non-culturally specific items).

It's worth comparing this "offensive" content with the one other discernably human character Flunnel, who carries just as many cultural referents as the Nazzim of Bazzim. Except that his referents are of a late 19th Century Austrian oompah musician (with a Seussian trumpet/accordion hybrid, an ornate feathered cap that wasn't intentionally phallic, and distinctive central European muttonchops). On the face of it, this no more nor less offensive; it is equally as exotic as the Nazzim. They are certainly both exotic, but so is everything in Seuss book. Neither depiction is negative.

And yet the Nazzim is identified as offensive and the Flunnel is not. The only difference is which foreign culture Seuss is riffing off of in creating the different characters. What the removal of this book is implying is that there's something implicitly wrong about Middle Eastern culture that is not wrong with Central European culture. The only thing to be offended about here is that different human cultures exist. I think the choice to quit publishing this book is entirely ass-backwards. The core message of Seuss, especially so with On Beyond Zebra, is that it's okay for kids to let their imaginations roam out beyond the boundaries society sets for them. That's a dangerous idea to suppress. Killing this book is reinforcing the idea that there's something wrong with being different.

I think they should reconsider

The Nazzim of Bazzim



Flunnel

[WhiskeyGrinder]

1. Fortunately, it's not the only book -- or even the only Seuss book -- with the theme of going beyond

limits and wondering "what if."

[Bucky]

14. True that. That's why his very American past turns on race are both surprising and not suprising

I loved his books as a kid and got a lot of pleasure sharing his books with my kid as she was learning to read.

I also, as a history teacher, used his WW2 propaganda cartoons as key examples of how the US racialized the War in the Pacific (and in comparison to the way Japan also racialized the war).

I just don't think this book deserves to be looped in with this clearly inappropriate images in Mulberry Street.

[Me.]

2. I Knew It Was Their Decision

So why are the Dems being blamed?

[JHB]

4. Republican reflexes...

Mainstream media reflexes too, when you get down to it.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

7. If you mean 'the RePuQlicans lie ... reflexively', then I totally agree w/your assessment ;) nt

[JHB]

10. They've had those reflexes for decades. Q isn't really new.

[Bucky]

20. Exactly this. Hear, hear!

They have an outrage machine. The Republican national strategy is to keep the public agitated and fearful 24-7-365. Otherwise people will slip into thinking rationally about spending, taxes, and industrial regulation... and then it's only a slippery slope down to the middle class voting for their own interests.

[PatSeg]

3. I actually don't remember that title

Thanks, I'll get out the video.

[Hugh_Lebowski]

5. IIRC McElligotts Pool is basically about the interconnected nature of life on Earth

I think it has a positive message regarding both the planet's ecology, and about inclusion/acceptance of other cultures. We all depend on one another, and on the earth ... was kinda the gist ... again IIRC.

That's how I remember it from being a kid. I'd imagine there's an image or two, and a word or two (it might contain 'oriental' or 'siamese' or the like) in it would offend current sensibilities ... but why not just clean these up/replace them?

[Bucky]

15. It's not like the racist content of other kids' books like Mary Poppins or Charlie and the Chocolate

Factory or the Little House Books, which need editing or context teaching beforehand. On Beyond Zebra is simply not offensive except in cases where someone wants to be offended.

[Tommy Carcetti]

6. I think *most* of the grievances against Seuss...

...could be boiled down to simply being a product of his time, that is, carrying on a simplistic and stereotypical caricature of a foreign culture or ethnicity without it necessarily being inherently hateful; just simply wrong.

And if his estate wants to retire those works because they'd rather he be remembered for more positive works that didn't contain those caricatures, power to them.

The one area where Seuss did cross a definite line was some of his cartoons towards people of Japanese ancestry during World War II, which could have been to justify internment. Yes, Seuss could have argued he did so simply out of zeal for his strong stance against Axis powers, but the literal Fifth Column depiction of Japanese in America in his cartoons was simply and positively wrong on his part.

But then again, that's a legacy that FDR has to grapple with as well, even though FDR will still undoubtedly be ranked as one of our greatest Presidents for years to come.

In the end, Seuss/Geisel was undisputedly immensely talented, arguably beyond any other children's author and illustrator of his age. I myself got such great pleasure reading his books as a kid, and frankly, still do as an adult. And I don't think we are going to be forgetting or "cancelling" out his legacy any time soon simply because of some problematic depictions in a few of his early works.

I wouldn't think of putting Seuss in the same category of, say, John Wayne. Who just today I read the infamous 1971 Playboy interview of, and I can only say what a horrible, shitty, and despicable overall person and thoroughly unabashed racist he was.

Then again, I'll argue that John Wayne was a terrible actor as well. Dr. Seuss, on the other had, was extremely good at his craft, whatever problems he might have.

[BlueStater]

11. Geisel was a flawed man who did some good things.

He appears to have been a racist in his youth, but he also seemed to have evolved as a person as he grew older. Later editions of And to Think That I Saw It on Mulberry edited the Chinese boy to change his yellow skin to white and remove the offensive “Chinaman” slur. This happened while he was alive, which signifies to me that he was not against editing his work to reflect changing times and sensibilities.

While some of his earlier attitudes unfortunately reflect the time period he lived in, he was also ahead of his day in other areas (The Lorax). We can hold him accountable for what he got wrong while simultaneously admiring him for what he got right. Contrary to Republicans’ latest stupid talking point, no one is “cancelling” him.

[cbdo2007]

12. That probably explains everyone - flawed person who did some good things.

There are certainly different level of flaws but none of us are perfect and most of us are trying to do good things.

Personal growth is much more of a positive trait in someone than someone being perfect all along.

[Bucky]

16. As a history teacher I always include Geisel's anti-Nissei cartoons in my WW2 homefront units

This is radically different. I think they swept with too broad a brush here.

Geisel's offenses should be pointed out, but he's hardly on the level of "George Washington whipping his slaves" flawed. And his flaws are not contained in this book. Its benign use of a character of kinda-sorta foreign origin isn't stereotyping and doesn't feed the American pattern of white supremacy or xenophobia.

[nuxvomica]

8. Makes me wonder how "Abdul Abulbul Amir" is perceived now

I always liked that song as it is fun to sing but it has cultural stereotypes similar to the Nazzim.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abdul_Abulbul_Amir

[luckone]

9. Camel jockey I know you're gonna tell me it's really a one humped swawmal or something Seuss

but I’m guessing that was the stereotype they found offensive 2020

https://hinative.com/en-US/questions/5020176#answer_13581682

Don’t worry be happy plenty of Seuss books for children to still enjoy and used copies are always available they are just not continuing to publishithem
Although used copies may go up in price for these titles now as people want them just to make a point to give it to the kids to see

[Bucky]

18. "Camel jockey" is an ethnic slur. Someone riding a camel is not.

I repeat, it's counterproductive and disingenuous to conflate depicting a foreign culture with ridiculing a foreign culture. The fact that people have differences around the world isn't xenophobia or colonialism.

[msongs]

13. bibles are unsuitable for children. are they being banned too? nt

[Hekate]

17. Thank you, Bucky. Just thank you. Bookmarking.

[kskiska]

19. Walt Disney produced propaganda films all through WWII.