Assuming Manchin meant what I think he meant in terms of the filibuster

[dsc]

I can actually live with it. I believe he said that if the GOP is given a chance, say 30 days, to have input on a bill and chooses not to use it, then he is willing to pass it with a majority vote. If that is the case, then I am OK with that. It might change the behavior of some GOP senators if they see bills pass without their input and more importantly not being watered down vastly by our side in a vain attempt to get their votes. They might decide that it is a good idea to see what premium we place on bipartisanship. I think it is worth some, especially if you can get GOP senators to out bid Manchin.

[Fullduplexxx]

1. American people voted to put Democrats in charge

They did not vote for Democrats so that the GOP can have a voice. It was the GOP voice that caused them to give the government back to the Democrats.

[BGBD]

2. What?

Won by the skin of our teeth in overtime and by a tie breaker. We lost seats in the house. That's hardly a congressional mandate.

[luv2fly]

3. Have to agree

But for a small number of counties in a few states, the outcome would have been different. That said, we should govern while in power like the Republicans do and ignore the entire side as best we can.

[Dark n Stormy Knight]

18. Only because of the ridiculous fact that it takes more votes to elect a D than an R.

Thanks to gerrymandering and the unfortunate 2 senators-per-state no matter what the population rule. I understand the concept behind it, but it's too glaringly unfair, to say the least, when the party with the electoral advantage also supports armed insurrection by to stop the other party's duly elected members from taking office.

[LastLiberal in PalmSprings]

26. I live in California (pop. 39.5 million). Wyoming has 579,000 people. Each state gets two senators.

My vote -- and thus influence -- in the senate is worth a lot less than that of a Wyoming voter.

[BGBD]

29. So what?

We've been playing with these rules since the beginning. Don't like it? Move to Wyoming.

Vermont, Rhode Island, New Hampshire, and Delaware aren't exactly high population states but we send plenty of Senators from there. Texas and Florida would happily send a few dozen more senators as well, wonder what party they'd be from.

[llashram]

25. this

TO HELL with the White Supremacy Party. Steamroll them every chance given us in legislation and votes.

[Politicub]

28. We won the majority of votes. We are hamstrung in the house

because of gerrymandering. This will not change.

Gerrymandering is becoming more insidious because of the ability to precisely create districts down to the household.

We won despite all of the gerrymandering and barriers to voting.

There is a people’s mandate. It may not be reflected in our broken system in the senate where small states get a disproportionate measure of power. But the popular vote that the dems have won over and over again is the mandate.

[Hortensis]

4. "did not vote for Democrats so that the GOP can have a voice" WHAT?

Our founding fathers intended that majority votes would decide, not to create a tyranny of the current majority party. They, of course, hoped there never would be parties at all.

OF COURSE, all the reps people send to congress are supposed to have a voice. Before the separate votes BY EVERYONE in the house and the senate come the processes of writing bills, reviewing, negotiation, debate, amendment, reconciliation, back to house for review and possibly further changes.

Right now the bill just passed in the senate is going through the process of incorporating the various changes decided on by both parties before being issued in its final form and sent to the WH to be signed into law.

[dsc]

6. actually the GOP had no say in this bill

not because we forbid them from having it, but because they chose not to have it.

[Hortensis]

7. They had a lot of say in it, dsc, including getting the minimum wage

provision kicked. That they voted against final passage does not change what went into the bill before that.

[dsc]

8. no that was Manchin and the other 7 and the rules of reconciliation.

The GOP was on the sidelines.

[Celerity]

19. Yes, the stripping away of COVID cheques from 17 million

people (who got two cheques under Rump, now nothing under us), the stripping away of almost 2000 usd from each person on UE for the duration (23 weeks at 300 usd per week (6900 usd in toto) instead of the House bill's 22 weeks at 400 pw (8800 usd in toto), and then the removal of the minimum wage part (some blame goes on the Parliamentarian there, but even if she had allowed it, Manchin only supported 11 usd, not 15 usd, so 8320 usd per annum less for a full time worker) is all in Dems, as we could have passed it all if we stuck together.

The Rethugs sat it all out, and even if some had signed on, there would never been full restorations of the things Manchin and Sinema cut out (plus Shaheen was co lead on cutting off the COVID cheques from 17 million people, 12 million adults, 5 million children).

[Hortensis]

24. 8 out of 100 did that? 8 would have lost to 42 if even

your scenario were true. But that's a fribble, discussed as a simple illustration, because that provision was dead before Sanders introduced his amendment as part of the amendments vote-a-rama. Manchin, and Biden, had indicated a willingness to compromise on a very big raise to $11, but Sanders chose to stand on $0.

Here's a BIG, PROFOUND example of Republican involvement: Writing the bill. The committees that created this over 600-page bill may be chaired by Democrats, but half their members are Republican.

From beginning to end. After all, even if Republicans felt comfortable they could defeat a bill, in case something went wrong they wouldn't let one this important get to a vote without doing what they could to shape its content.

Btw, it did turn out to be a good bill, even if it doesn't have all we'd like. A lesson in the difference between how Republicans sometimes behave behind the scenes and their beyond-contemptible behaviors in front of the cameras when their rabid base is watching.

[dsc]

5. In an ideal world, you are right

but the fact is Manchin and Sinema are in our caucus, are adamantly against eliminating the filibuster, and we can't do so without their votes. So we need to find something we can live with, get bills passed and placates them. This, IMO, provided Manchin meant what I think he meant, fits that bill.

[Demsrule86]

13. Manchin has said the filibuster needs to reformed and should not be used for all legislation. He

particularly mentioned the Election Bill so let's see what happens. Without him we have no majority and nothing.

[azureblue]

22. This I agree with

How to filibuster has been watered down way too much. It should be back to - one man and one man only, standing there for the whole time, not leaving the floor. And no handing off the filibuster floor to someone else, or sequential filibusters, either.

[Boydog]

16. Ornstein mentioned a way to beat the filibuster

It was late and I didn't get all the details. Did anyone else hear that.

[Demsrule86]

14. Well, they should have voted for more Democrats as we have the thinnest of majorities.

[BumRushDaShow]

9. Unfortunately

he will find that as long as Turtle is in there pulling their strings and as long as they put in dozens who were elected post-Citizen's United (like Lee, Cruz, Paul, both Scotts, Lankford, Rubio, Cotton, Ernst, Johnson, Hawley, and more recently Tuberville and Blackburn, etc etc), it will be difficult to find any willing to go "bipartisan".

Outside of the usual Collins/Murkowski/Romney & his own colleague Capito, and maybe knock Sasse upside his head, he would really really need to work on the few senior ones left (like Blunt or maybe, god forbid, former Democrat Richard Shelby, but excluding Grassley and Graham) because since 2010, they apparently have had an almost complete turnover of GOP Senators in that chamber, and the ones elected since then have pushed the loon stuff

[uponit7771]

10. He'll renege or redefine "chance" as them fuckin every thing up

[Demsrule86]

12. He voted for the Covid bill...an excellent bill.

[uponit7771]

15. That's true I'm just wondering why this guy has to be front and center putting small turds in the ..

.... Punch bowl every time we come up with something that we want to progress

now he's saying he won't do infrastructure unless it's paid for by increases in taxes which is screwed up he might as well say he doesn't want to do infrastructure at all.

were Mansion stands on hr1 is the real big deal we'll see if he still wants to be a Democrat or is he a true wolf in sheep's clothing

[Boydog]

20. I think he loves the spotlight

This is his fifteen minutes of fame. But in a fifty fifty environment he's another one of those pains in the ass we have to put up with.

[Demsrule86]

11. I actually think that is reasonable...he gives the GOP a chance but won't stop legislature that

helps people...

[bucolic_frolic]

17. It's a false choice. Define "input".

"If the other side stands down" is just bogus. You still must focus on the mechanics of filibuster. 30 days is a good idea though. Limit the filibuster in scope and frequency, but enhance open discussion of bills.

[Johonny]

21. In some sense I agree. If Joe want bipartisan support, though.

It should be up to him to bring it. When he starts turning noes into yeses, then I'll start thinking this isn't time wasting. So far he's not found a single vote. No one. Manchin can't have it both ways. Call for GOP support, but be unable to actually find any.

[Boydog]

23. I agree right now bipartisanship is impossible.

but Biden has to at least give it lip service especially with a 60% app rating. The public at large appreciates that. Rep's are trying to pull him away from that civility into the muck. Biden's political acuity is amazing.

[grantcart]

27. Make them stay on the floor like Jimmy Stewart

The cloture rule was never intended to give the minority super minority rights, it was only intended that every Senator be given the right to speak on the floor of the greatest deliberative body in the world.

Let them talk as long as they want, then vote on it.