I understand being uncompelled by Meghan Markle's experiences with royals

[bigtree]

...but her interview with Oprah was essentially an expose' on racial attitudes among the royal organization, and for me, and others, it was a revealing look at the limitations placed on people possessing the dark skin I share with Mrs. Markle, even at a level of society which can afford to be magnanimous, yet chooses to be churlish and outright racist.

It's really not that hard to give all of that a thought and try and imagine how much harder it is for people without privileges to overcome and prosper.

That's worth paying some attention to, imo. I guess it depends on your interest, but I'd be dismayed if I thought it was completely ignored here, not surprised, though, because I don't believe there are a significant number here who share Mrs. Markle's experience, on any financial or social level.

So, maybe worth a listen.

[SoonerPride]

1. I'm just surprised anyone is surprised.

You mean this thousands of years old money empire built on conquest and blood is racist?

The Firm is racist.
The country is racist.

You don’t say. I’m shocked! 🧐

I’m happy Harry had the stones to say”enough of this bullshit. We’re out. Toodles!”

[theneworiginal]

87. Thank god (or the Queen) we're not the only racist assholes out there.

Not lost on me that the press had a well-coordinated hit job on the heels of Megan's initial intense popularity. There appears to have been a lot of concern that if she got a Diana-like following that her power would threaten the Institution.

Well, Jolly-o, took care of that, now. Didn't we?

[happy feet]

112. +1111111

[Yavin4]

128. The British Empire practically invented modern-day racism.

They used race to divide and conquer the populations of their colonies.

[WhiskeyGrinder]

2. Yep. Resources help marginalized people, but in the end, systems of oppression must be dismantled.

She married a prince and had access to all sorts of resources. She had class privilege and, in some ways, color privilege. But when she was thinking about suicide because of the racism she faced, the Firm did nothing for her, and certainly didn't examine itself. Systemic racism is a killer.

[GopherGal]

12. It seemed the "Firm" was stuck in obsolete attitudes toward mental health in Diana's day

Diana's throwing herself down stairs while pregnant with their precious heir didn't move them to find psychological support for her. The fact that the palace types didn't learn from that (or at least from the furor over its revelation years later) to provide some support to its workhorses suggests truly destructive levels of stodginess. Maybe it's not so surprising that people so hide-bound to multi-generations-old attitudes toward mental health may also harbor some beyond antiquated racial attitudes as well.

[pazzyanne]

20. Exactly!

Diana was a very empathetic, sensitive person who faced the same thing that Meghan is facing today, minus the racial component. Prejudice is prejudice. The Royal family and the English people destroyed Diana as a person. Just glad that Harry got his family out of that environment. They and Archie deserve better.

[uponit7771]

92. Yep

[Dream Girl]

3. I found it stunning. I say, if you don't care , check your privilege

[live love laugh]

82. +1

[Mary in S. Carolina]

89. +1

[Lulu KC]

119. +1

I mean! If becoming royalty can't break through the wall, can we acknowledge the damn wall?
(I am getting irritable about this.)

[jrthin]

140. Good way to put it.

[Starry Messenger]

124. +1

[liberalmuse]

127. Thank you.

I've seen posts sneering at anyone who watched or is interested in the interview. It's about much more than spoiled royals. It's exactly how women, and especially women of color are treated in a culture steeped in misogyny and bigotry.

[demtenjeep]

149. agree

Stuff I thought but to have it validated? Good God.

It took a LOT Of guts for them to act and react.

Good on them.

[madaboutharry]

4. "..churlish.."

A perfect word for the behavior towards Meghan.

As an aside, I often feel the whole world is churlish.

[soldierant]

101. Etymologically, it is.

"Churl" started out just as a word meaning "a man." The connotations were more as to class than as to gender, though, so it would not be outrageous to interpret that as "a person."

[brer cat]

5. Good post, bigtree.

[Cozmo]

24. I agree, well said!

[ms liberty]

6. There's a Buzzfeed article going around that shows media articles

Contrasting how she and Kate were treated about the exact same thing. Like holding their baby bump, for instance. Kate was described in admiring tones about it, but with Meghan they asked what was wrong with her. The article has 20 examples, and they didn't have to reach to find the comparisons, it was blatantly obvious.

[GopherGal]

43. The comparison to Kate was inescapable

and one Meghan will never win. Just ask Sarah Ferguson.

Even were Meghan lily white with blue blood, the courtiers and royal press would
1) Always want to set up an imagined rivalry between the brothers' wives.
2) Wish to avoid alienating the woman who will someday be queen.

In addition, Meghan is stuck with her own family who seem hell-bent on embarrassing her if it will get their name in the paper, any paper, versus Kate's upper-class "one-of-us" British family who may even provide some support to her.

But the race issue has probably contributed to Open Season on Meghan. And the publicity people in the palace seem happy to let her take the heat and distract from the attention that had come Prince Andrew's way from the Epstein stuff. (And from William's alleged peccadillos with his neighbor...)

I can manage a little sympathy for the inhabitants of the royal "golden cage"
The continuity of the monarchy demands an "heir and a spare"
The tabloids demand a rivalry between their wives. But woe to the wife of the "spare" who must never be more beloved than the wife of the heir.
The public/tabloids feel a certain ownership of their private lives (how DARE she not pose for the press within hours of delivering a baby!), but balks at supporting the "spares" and their descendants.
With Charles shaping up to become a less-than-popular monarch and knowing he'll have to make "The Firm" a little leaner, Harry was probably wise to pull the rip cord and bail out.

[Dan]

108. I thought that Sarah Ferguson was fantastic...

She always put a smile on my face whenever I saw her or heard something about her....

[Raven123]

46. Saw that previously and it was jaw dropping.

[treestar]

71. +1

this struck me.

I know it's hard to feel sorry for successful rich people, but that's not the point. Oprah being watched in a store, Obama being criticized for absurd things - it's that people see their race no matter what. So imagine how it is for more ordinary people.

And as you say, there were blatant examples where Kate did the same thing and got praise and glowing terms.

Out there in nonDU land, there is irrational hatred of Meghan Markle that goes beyond anything she said or did, kind of like there was for Obama. Sure they would not like any Dem President, but they were way farther out there than with Clinton. The royals and their admirers wouldn't liek an American marrying in, but their response here is like that.

[Srkdqltr]

7. She knew what she was getting in to. But she has a right to call it out.

Probably a responsibility to call it out. She will take the heat for it because Harry is always the royal and a man so he can't be faulted.

[Politicub]

38. "She was asking for it."

I have always hated that argument.

[Srkdqltr]

49. I know, I don't either, except in this time (21st century) that a woman has some responsibility for.

Her self. She wasn't kidnapped and forced. But once there she has the right to call it out.

[FlyingPiggy]

63. I hate that argument too.

[demtenjeep]

150. agree

and she had a right to THINK her family would treat her decent.

[Cousin Dupree]

45. No,she didn't know what she was getting into

[ShazzieB]

65. No, she absolutely didn't.

That was made quite clear during the course of interview. She had no bloody idea what she was getting into.

[Martin68]

73. I understand what you mean by "she knew what she was getting into," but I'm sure she was hoping that

the UK would rise to the occasion and grow up a little.They've had more than 20 years to learn from the Princess Dianna episode. Granted, the issue of skin color was added to the mix, but c'mon! The royal family in particular, and the public in general, need to get over their racial prejudices. Or at least to pretend to, which may be a necessary first step towards understanding.

[leighbythesea2]

138. Right

Imagine being so concerned (euphemism for racist) about your 3/4 white grand child?
20 years to learn from Diana, much longer to embrace diversity.

[treestar]

74. Yes, there is no way to know for sure

until you are actually in it.

[Dream Girl]

86. Please stop with this.

It exudes nothing.

[SunSeeker]

99. She had no idea the palace would inexplicably take away their security/protection.

That put her, her husband and their child in danger, particularly since the palace was not defending her in response to racist and malicious accusations in the UK press.

[Starry Messenger]

125. She didn't, actually

She says that in the interview--she thought it would be like being around "celebrities" a la the entertainment industry. But the protective shell and politics around the Royal Family was next level.

[judesedit]

8. What's ironic to me, being a white woman, is that white people have the worst skin of all skin types

Maybe just my opinion, but I think poc have the most beautiful skin. I think whites are jealous. That's one reason they keep talking about it. They know white skin is inferior, but want you to believe the opposite.

[LakeArenal]

22. That seems a very simple conclusion but I agree.

Tried like hell to keeps tan. Even started going to a salon. But that is terrible.

I accept my thin hair, pasty skin and wrinkles. Too many others don’t see how beautiful skin can be.

As a kid and we’d see (rarely) a mixed race couple. I always thought that skin together looked so cool.

Also the few times I watched body builders... Black skin, muscles oil. Sigh.

Donald Driver.....sigh.

[Cozmo]

26. Nobody's talking about skin texture here, Geez

Is this some kind of a joke????? Not funny

[judesedit]

98. I guess texture goes along with it. I just think it's funny how some white people think they are

superior to poc because they were born with white/light skin, which is very ignorant in itself. Add to that almost all of the poc that I've seen have much more beautifully toned skin. White people spend tons of money trying to copy it.

[Sympthsical]

64. You just said that. Out loud.

[treestar]

75. That's going a little far

Real far, lol, any skin color can be beautiful or not so beautiful depending on the individual.

[Demsrule86]

9. That is a really crappy thing to say bigtree...you just called a 'significant number' of DUer's

racist. I am going to trash this. I can't even believe you posted this. And for the record, I highly doubt many if any DUer's are as rich as Mrs. Markle.

[Lancero]

14. Wealth doesn't justify racism.

Anyone trying to justify, or excuse, the treatment she had - Because of the color of her skin - is racist. Not actively, perhaps, but subconsciously.

Though, saying someone is full of crap when they call out bigotry is a step above subconscious behavior.

[bigtree]

19. I just implied many were disinterested and unassociated with her experiences

...and pointed out that the interview was about more than just 'the royals.'

So stop with the hyper defensive nonsense. Nowhere have I called ANY DUER a racist. You should trash your own post.

It's not unusual for me to find people claiming racism responding to what is essentially an appeal to take notice.

[Cozmo]

27. Stand tall, bigtree

[sarchasm]

39. Agree. Great post bigtree!

There’s a lot to unpack in this story.

[llashram]

54. ++

[ShazzieB]

68. Did we even read the same post?

Sure doesn't sound like it.

Seriously, it was a great post.

[wryter2000]

96. Amen

You said nothing wrong. Signed, a white woman

[WhiteTara]

23. I think as white people

we need to learn to check our privilege. I have no doubt that a significant number of us are racist and don't even know it.

[Cozmo]

28. I can't believe you post this!

[marmar]

32. Not at all what bigtree said. Intentionally obtuse response.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

33. I'm really surprised that there are any people on a progressive website

that don't understand that the fact that we live in a system that was founded and grew on racist principles means that all whites are racist. And if you have a problem with that statement, I can give you a dozen books to read on the topic to help educate yourself. But, again, I would hope that we all know those dozen books on a progressive site. YMMV, I sadly guess.

[smirkymonkey]

60. +1000

I am white, btw. And I get it.

[Politicub]

42. Is that all you gleaned from the OP? Really?

It does not matter how rich or successful Meghan may be; she still has to deal with toxic discrimination flung her way.

Did you know she was thinking of killing herself over her treatment? And that she was barred from getting therapy because it might reflect poorly on the royal family? Does that matter?

[Dream Girl]

88. I'm starting to wonder myself. I posted something about access to vaccine and white privile and

I was attacked for be “divisive “. I was alerted and an my post was removed. I did appeal and it a restore. Even then, someone suggested I I be put on “Ignore”. Seems there are some here who either don’t care about racism or are downright hostile to seeing it called out. I find that disappointing even though I shouldn’t.

[wryter2000]

97. There's a lot

of unexplored privilege here. I've seen white people posting, "I grew up poor. I didn't have privilege."

[catbyte]

10. It's the callousness and disregard for their personal safety that angers me. For the palace to

pull security from them in this day and age is just unfathomable. And even though I think the idea of royalty is silly in this day and age, it still was petty and mean-spirited to deny any title to their kids--especially since it seems to be based on bigotry. I don't blame them for getting the hell out of that toxic environment.

[pazzyanne]

21. + 1 nt

[BusyBeingBest]

30. Yup.

[Ilsa]

51. You're speaking for me as well.

Harry, by birth, would receive attention. His family should provide the same level of protection as they do for other "royals" not destined to rule. In this age, terrorism against the family cannot be ruled out. Charles' uncle (Lord Mountbatten) is an example.

[Walleye]

11. Prejudice and racism hurt even when wearing a $5000 dress

[Dream Girl]

131. Once you have it. A $5,000 dress means nothing

It doesn’t shield you from racism or even make you happy.

[Walleye]

132. Yep

[Laurelin]

13. Yes

I'm not at all interested in royals. Also I haven't seen the interview, because I'm in Europe and it doesn't seem to be available here yet.

But the excerpts I've seen are, I think, important. We (society, but also we who are a whiter shade of pale) need to listen, really seriously listen, to poc about race and racism. Obviously that need didn't start today or start because of this interview, but it's another opportunity for society and individuals to reflect on what is one of the most serious issues facing humanity.

I don't care about British royalty as an institution, but I think Meghan and Harry were speaking to serious societal, not just royal, issues and prejudices. CNN and the BBC have had a number of Black people speak to their own experiences, because of this interview. I think that's really valuable. And I think it helps that it may be easier to reflect on institutional racism in a softer situation than the even more tragic deaths of black people at the hands of police. Hopefully this will make it easier to listen instead of retreating into knee jerk positions like, police good, rioters scary.

Probably too optimistic but I'll watch the interview.

[PunkinPi]

15. This just kind of reinforces how viewing things through and intersectional lens

can be informative. Thinking that wealth (class) some how solves or overcomes societal ills like racism and sexism is simply untrue.

Good post, bigtree, thank you.

[lagomorph777]

16. The entire concept of royalty is offensive and disgusting.

I really can't give a crap about royal gossip.

[Arazi]

41. There was zero "royal" gossip. There was substantive talk on racism and mental health stigma

In fact, they refused to gossip even when Oprah tried hard to get them to gossip

[lagomorph777]

44. The sordid details of the royal racist racket are unimportant.

The whole royal racket should be shut down.
But it's the UK's problem, not mine.

[llashram]

55. Meghan Markle/George Floyd

are my problem.

[lagomorph777]

59. Ok, then.

Meghan Markle married into a gigabucks racist racket in another country, and was surprised to learn it's a racist racket (not merely a racket).

George Floyd was murdered for being black, in this country.

My votes or activism will have literally zero influence on how long the Brits continue to host their royal parasites.
My votes or activism will have some influence on race policies in America.

I really don't see much connection.

[llashram]

61. ok...on the connection

[ShazzieB]

77. Mine, too, llashram.

Mine, too.

[Lulu KC]

120. +1

[BComplex]

80. That was uncalled for.

[soldierant]

104. The entire concept of racism is offensive and disgusting.

Remaining ignorant will not make it go away.

[amuse bouche]

17. Some have become very closed minded.

Having a differing opinion will get the jury called in. I get asked to sit on a jury at least once a day, and I don't spend much time here
anymore

[pbmus]

18. I prefer dark chocolate...

[babylonsister]

25. I'm glad I watched it.

Can't remember the percentage of POC quoted, around 70-80% in the Commonwealth?

It's very sad that the royals couldn't get out of their own way to embrace this as a teaching moment and an historic opportunity to celebrate diversity; they are so stuck in the past.

I'm glad Harry and Meaghan cleared the air; I hope they thrive in any and all future endeavors. Seems they will be better off without their close-minded 'firm' and family.

[sarchasm]

34. Agree. A huge opportunity squandered...

.. and pulling security, a slap in the face.

[Mary in S. Carolina]

93. Agreed

Huge Opportunity Squandered is Correct.

Meghan being investigated for bullying..why didn't the "Firm" investigate the Royal Pedophile or the Royal Adulterer"s". Why is Meghan's "bullied white male aide" all of a sudden the CEO of the Royal Foundation.

[llashram]

29. the 'royals'

HATE Meghan Markle because she is a POC. Period. They always will. How dare she 'sully' that pure white bloodline of the 'royals'.

[Cuthbert Allgood]

35. Right?

I mean Harry's grandfather was the child of, basically, fucking Nazis. And we know that his Great Uncle was a Nazi sympathizer during his, very short, run as King.

But, yeah, I absolutely shocked that British aristocracy is racist. WHAAAAAT?

[drlindaphd]

142. They are not "pure white"

The British Royal Family are not exactly "pure white". Queen Charlotte, wife of George III was biracial. Queen Phillipa, wife of Edward III was also biracial. Yes this was a long time ago. Now Phillip, the Queen's husband has been known to make many offensive racial remarks in his younger days. These were mostly about Asians and there was a lot of prejudice against the Japanese during WWII. There was also a lot of prejudice against Germans during WWI causing the Royals to change their name to Windsor.

However the Queen has never been known to be prejudiced against anyone and both Harry and Megan said they had a good relationship with her and that she has always treated them both well.

[TNNurse]

31. We did not watch but are not surprised at the content.

If anyone thinks that racism and other bigotry is not a critical problem in every society they are ignorant.

I think they were smart to get out. I admire that they were willing to be public about it.

Many people who are not wealthy or privileged have needed to leave their family over such bigotry and create a new family of friends.

[Politicub]

36. Meghan finally was given a platform to tell her story. The royal

attitude towards race is toxic. The tabloid press was openly racist, and had stories about how Meghan’s blood tainted the royal bloodline.

Her story is important, and I am glad she was the one to tell it.

People who I thought would be glad about the piercing of the royal veil instead are upset that someone dare criticize the royal institution. Their attachment to being anglophiles outweighs Meghan’s agency. At least that how I interpret it, and it saddens me.

The royal propaganda machine wants to continue raking Meghan over the coals. The objective is to punish her for daring to speak out. Each time someone criticizes her, the public relations team chalks up another point to pad the score that shows their effort to turn public sentiment against her is working. More funding gets poured into trashing her. Sickening.

Oh, I’m thrilled about the Covid bill. But I don’t need to have a vigil where it is the only thing on which I direct my focus. I want to get that out of the way before I’m called on multitasking.

[Random Boomer]

37. No, it's not an expose of anything

This wasn't a revelation of things unknown, so it hardly counts as an expose. The only revelation is that Meghan Markle is remarkably naive about the institution she married. There's not much excuse, given the reams of articles about the palace and all its intrigues.

[FreeState]

115. Did you watch it?

Their child is being denied protection and the designation all other royal's children receive.
They took away the Childs security.

How are those not an expose? I did not know those two facts and many others.

[Evolve Dammit]

40. institutional racism was exported throughout the world; it's been here since we started. Glad it's

being called out and exposed, at any level. 45 exposed it for all to see how active it still is in the U.S., when many thought we had moved on.

[zaj]

47. It's both the royals and the royals view of public attitudes

It's a ground breaking interview. And I think celebrity watching is horrible. And royalty is authoritarianism. Still, very important news.

[Lonestarblue]

48. Thank you, bigtree.

I watched the interview and found it quite interesting. I don’t think I had appreciated beforehand just how much racism had been a part of the decision to leave. I thought most of the racism was coming from the British tabloids. The fact that it was also coming from inside the royals’ organization makes it even worse.

Imagine how much worse racism is for the average person if a beautiful young woman like Megan, who had a successful career and is a strong woman, faced so much racism that she was in despair. I believe that if we do not overcome the racism in our own country, and it continues to grow as it has in the last decade, we will eventually have open warfare. It is one of the major issues holding back progress in this country.

[demtenjeep]

151. I had no idea

and I agree!

[NY06DemSoc]

50. I don't understand why anyone gives a hoot

These people are not part of our country, not our government, not our culture. I don't want to see interviews with them. They are stupid figureheads for some other country. Why do I have to see TV time dedicated to these people?

[obamanut2012]

56. Markle is a biracial American who earned her place in society

By working hard. Then, was Jim Crowed by the British Royal Family, and a rather large chunk of the British public. So much so, she and her husband and child had to leav ethe country. So much so, she wanted to kill herself from the abuse.

So, yeah, I damn well "give a hoot" about sexism and racism.

[treestar]

76. We should be interested in other countries

It is the Deplorables who don't know anything about the rest of the world. You would not say tht about their politicians or cultural icons.

I get not thinking much of the royals, as they aren't much in politics now, but they have powers to draw attention to causes like any other rich people.

And one of us is involved at this time.

[ShazzieB]

79. The nice thing about it

is that nobody has to watch it if they don't want to.

TV time is dedicated to all sorts of ridiculous things that I'm not interested in. I don't watch those things, and i on
Now other people don't watch some of the things I'm interested in. Different strokes for ... well, you know.

[NY06DemSoc]

85. It's a bunch of rich people squabbling. It has f-all to do with me.

Things that matter

-Vote suppression on racial grounds
-Gerrymandering
-Citizens United and the influence of money in the political system
-Healthcare and the absurd health-insurance system in the US

Maybe if they had talked about the benefit of the NHS in Britain and about how our healthcare system in this country keeps poor people down and bankrupts people then we would have learned something important.

But these navel gazing twits don't rate a microscopic violin in my book.

I've had my own experiences with racist relatives thanks, I couldn't whine to Oprah or anyone else and nobody would have cared if I did.

These privileged nitwits don't care about anybody but themselves. So I don't feel like I should have to care about them.

[Emrys]

113. I'm in the UK, and just wanted to say I agree with just about everything you've posted above.

One area where I differ is that I have a surprising (to me) amount of sympathy for Harry.

The media idolized his mother, then demonized her, and it's no great stretch to say it was culpable in her death. He had to walk behind her hearse during her funeral in the full glare of publicity as a young, bewildered child. That's bound to leave a mark, and accident of birth or not, he's owed because of it. I want him and his new family left alone, and wish them nothing ill.

I'd be singularly unbothered if the royal family's role in the UK was abolished or downgraded to where they're just citizens who have a colourful family history. Once Elizabeth dies, I have a feeling that's what will happen anyway, and it won't be before time.

Tonight, my wife and I watched the UK's Channel 4 News on TV. It's among the most progressive and incisive media we have, but the first 15 minutes of its hour-long programme was full of the Oprah interview and well-meaning talking heads discussing it and issues arising. It was infuriating when, as you point out, we have so much real and consequential news breaking every day.

None of the ensuing public debate about what may or may not have happened will make any great difference, and it sucks up the apparently finite public attention span while everything continues to go to shit.

I remember being struck by the debate on DU when Harry and Meghan's marriage was announced. Many of the Americans who piped up seemed much more concerned and consumed by the royal family than most of we Brits are. It was hailed as a transformative, modernizing development that could have far-reaching consequences.

If the few of we Brits who posted at the time didn't chime in more vociferously, I think it's partly because we didn't want to rain on people's parade as many seemed genuinely excited at the prospect, and partly because we'd have been drowned out and even taken to task because we have a more realistic opinion of what the royal family was, is and will ever be.

[Starry Messenger]

126. They live in my state now

I like them and think what happened to them is really deplorable. Why care about anything?

[cayugafalls]

52. Thank you for the synopsis.

Glad they got out of it, they will raise wonderful children without that bullshit environment.

[dawn5651]

53. when they ceased to be internationally protected persons canada pulled the security..not before as

was implied in the interview...in england a wedding needs 2 witnesses and has to be in a church or licensed place...so i don't believe that either...and if those 2 items are not true how can you believe anything that was said. under letters patent in 1917 the only great grandchildren of a reigning monarch who can enjoy the title priince or princess is if you are in line to succeed to the throne...eugenies baby wasn't given a title and neither was archie and neither were other great grandchildren of the monarch....archie will get a title when prince charles ascends to the throne.

[Spazito]

57. K & R

[LymphocyteLover]

58. Yes totally agree

[Roc2020]

62. I watched it

and wasn't surprised at the racism, but was shocked and stunned at the details.

[nolabear]

67. Agreed. And to think there are Americans who essentially want a monarchy.

I can’t fathom it. The royals are fascinating but it’s a remarkable combination of past abuse of absolute power and now faux power and a lot of puffed up pageantry.

People are so weird.

[Martin68]

69. Bigtree, you've perfectly summed up what I've been feeling and thinking about this.

[MontanaMama]

70. Well said bigtree. I watched the interview in full.

Not because I’m terribly interested in the royals but because I was interested in why Harry and Meghan ultimately left the UK. I found both of them quite compelling, genuine and likable. I guess I am naive in that I thought Meghan might have actually been welcomed into the family and when she wasn’t and when things went south, I would have at least thought there might be help available for her and or them as a couple. The environment must have been incredibly toxic and painful. You could see flashes of upset cross Meghan’s face during the interview. The fact that Harry could recognize the potential for tragedy playing out in front of him and was able to find the strength to do something about it before it happened...well that is impressive to me. That says he is someone who has learned a thing or two in his young life.

Last, I’ve read a couple of posts on this thread where people say “she knew what she was getting into” so we shouldn’t be outraged by racism or shouldn’t feel badly for what happened to her and is still happening to her...well they might as well say “she deserved what she got because look what she was wearing.” I shouldn’t be surprised by that insensitivity but I am...disappointed too.

[Duppers]

110. Bravo, MM.

Was wondering if it was just me feeling the same way. Where was the empathy? So, TY.

[SidDithers]

72. Well said...

Sid

[Sympthsical]

78. It's rich, privileged people fighting other rich, privileged people

Here's the thing. The racial issue with Markle is incredibly real. There are dozens of examples of how the media treated her vs. Kate. The upper, aristocratic crust of British is no doubt racist. They exist in an unimaginable world of wealth and privilege. That skin color remark reeks of pure Phillip. I'm glad she's calling some of that out.

However.

That interview was incredibly contrived, and I didn't buy entire sections of the thing. I know a bad actress when I see one, and boy howdy, I don't know what she was auditioning for, but I wouldn't have given her the part. People are eliding over a lot of obvious nonsense she was throwing out because they want to believe her and they support her in the anti-racism broadsides she's firing against the privilege fortress.

She didn't know what she was getting into? Really? Really?. Bull. Shit. There's an entire cottage industry of movies, articles, books, and documentaries outlining exactly what she was getting into. She absolutely knew. She made a calculation. Hell, we all knew, and we weren't even involved.

She makes it out that it's all about race. Really. So the fact she's an American and a flippin' actress had nothing to do with how that privileged class was going to see her? Nothing at all? Uh huh.

What I saw was a media savvy woman with a console full of social buttons she absolutely knew how to push during an incredibly manipulative interview. She pushed every single one. Unfortunately, the racism one is absolutely true given what we know about that lot. A lot of the rest, though . . .

And at the end of the day, these two are going to go on to lead lives of unimaginable wealth, privilege, and fame. They've already proven themselves to be unimaginably self-absorbed. "We are going to lecture the rest of the world about the environment from swanky private events and parties that we take endless private jets to." I mean, good grief.

I'm not surprised people bought it. The whole thing was designed to get people to buy it. These two are creating a brand now. They want to rake in that cash. And people are already pumped to hate the royal family (not that it isn't without good cause).

Frankly, I am exhausted of hearing about these two hilariously privileged people. They are constantly in the news. I hear about them endlessly, and I have zero interest in them. It is constantly forced down my throat. That is a designed media strategy. But, I'm not exactly surprised so many people are falling for it. It's doing what it was intended to do.

I just wish it would go away and people would stop focusing on it so much. We do still have a pandemic going on. Harry and Meghan are going to be more than just fine. And they wouldn't stoop to scrape you off their shoe if there wasn't a camera around. She can get some of our sympathy and our empathy, but keep your eyes on the intent of that interview.

It wasn't to help you.

This is the only post I'm going to make on this. I'm already hating myself for spending ten minutes on it. I've just wasted it.

[obamanut2012]

83. wow

victim blame much?

[Dream Girl]

91. I believed every word of it. Maybe you just don't want to. The fact that she is rich and priviledged

Don’t give anyone a pass. I am a black woman and have live this shit both professionally and personal. After my son was born, we named him after his white paternal grandfather. (I just liked the name.). Years later I learned that he didn’t want our son to have his name because he’s black. Interesting how people bend themselves into pretzels to be able to poo-poo this. You try living this this shit. Money, status, privilege, beauty, intelligence means nothing to many if you have black skin. That’s kind of the point.

[Sympthsical]

95. I believe the racism parts

100% believe them.

It's the rest I found contrived and manipulative. "We just want to live a simple life with chickens . . . from our $14 million dollar estate."

How did you not howl with laughter at that bit?

It was designed with the sole purpose of generating as much sympathy for them while generating as much antipathy towards the Firm. It's Us vs. the Royals. Who will win? Both. They will both win. And they will have the hundreds of millions of dollars to prove it.

Can't I just not care about both parties? Because they don't care about you or me.

[Amaryllis]

81. Anyone have a link to the entire interview? I only find excerpts. Thanks.

[txwhitedove]

114. Youtube. I found and saved to watch later.

[Beringia]

117. I found it

https://www.cbs.com/shows/oprah-with-meghan-and-harry-a-cbs-primetime-special/video/i6UW_WTQjLrEeOoObMmlwrFLTTypvuZm/cbs-presents-oprah-with-meghan-and-harry-a-primetime-special/

[Amaryllis]

130. THank you! i searched for about ten minutes and only found excerpts so I appreciate it.

[MustLoveBeagles]

144. Thank you

I'm watching it now.

[backscatter712]

84. They bent over backwards to cover for kiddy-fiddler Andrew...

...but couldn't handle a Black woman joining the family.

Yep. That shows me everything I need to know about them...

[SunSeeker]

100. Right? They didn't take away his title and security protection.

They not only took away Harry and Meghan's title, but also their son's, as well as security for all 3, inexplicably.

[mzmolly]

90. Meghan Markle also brought to light

her struggles with mental illness. Indeed, racism and mental health are issues we all care about.

I admire her courage, as well as Prince Harry's.

[2Gingersnaps]

94. The institution is anachronistic, a dinosaur over due for a dignified death,

and they learned absolutely nothing from tormenting Diana to death, so I'd say, "too late." Edward VIII married an American divorcee and had to step down, good thing too, being a Nazi sympathizer just wasn't kosher at the time. This whole blue blood, "royal blood" thing from a genetic viewpoint was an atrocity not unlike Mengele's experiments for that "pure Aryan." From the time of George III the genetic damage of inbreeding afflicted all the Royal houses of Europe because they were all intermarried from Austrian/German Royal Houses. By the time Victoria and Albert's children were marrying every other Royal house in Europe was falling and the
Royal House of Windsor (actually Saxe-Coburg-Gotha) were left trying to be relevant. So, they married a 20 year old virgin to the most uncharming of Princes who happened to be in love with the wife of his friend. He carried on that relationship from his arranged engagement through his fake marriage, and made the girl suffer for it. Nice "Head of the Church of England" to be. Soooo, stability? Character? Class? Disney never made a Prince out of anyone like Charles the Cad and Andrew the Creeper. So, Harry, who as a child had to watch what was done to his Mother, decided as a man that his wife and child deserved better? Good on him. Nice joining this century and redefining character, family isn't what you're born to, it's what you make it.

[Hekate]

102. I wasn't going to watch, but after reading the NYT review that popped up on my pad, plus DU...

...I tuned in for the last hour, and now plan to watch the whole thing.

I don’t discount the racism she experienced in the family at all, and thank you for your post. Regarding public reaction (ie, outside the palace), well, once again Rupert Murdoch’s rags play a part in keeping the average joe stupid.

But what struck me most of all was the functional/dysfunctional family system with an apparent emotional register of zero Kelvin. Remember when Diana wanted to kill herself? She was dismissed in the media as being too young for the job, too emotionally frail, already broken by her mother absconding, etc. Meghan, otoh, is at least a decade older than Diana was, a self-assured career woman, happy in her adult life and choices — and she wanted to die. wtf.

Something is really wrong inside that family, as a family, and I include all the many servants and functionaries it takes to maintain their enormous properties. To remain there in the modern era means you have to be a believer in the traditional class system, and Meghan was nowhere in that world: foreign, from a family of very modest means, of mixed-race, the list just goes on. Meghan “bullying the servants”? Why do I think it was the servants giving the interloper the cold shoulder?

Kate, Charles’ wife, was originally from a “common” family, but they made a fortune for themselves, and royalty has always appreciated that. I mean, money is really useful. So much the better if they are British and C of E; white is just assumed. Plus the “right” accent— your accent will peg you for life in that little world.

Sorry if I’m rambling on, but I’m trying to work this out. I’ll end as I began: thanks for your good post.

[SunSeeker]

103. I watched the whole thing. It was engrossing.

I was just stunned by the racism she endured, and that their child would have to endure. Then the palace inexplicably withdrew their security detail. It's like they wanted her to die.

[moonscape]

105. I also watched, and in addition to the racism,

was struck by the symbiotic relationship with the tabloids and how afraid the royal family is of them. My takeaway is they think the tabloids can destroy them so they are compliant and feed the beast.

[Oldem]

106. I don't really give a sh*t what these people say, except that that it

hurt Meghan and, by extension, lots of other people, including the OP. They are no better than any member here or any person, anywhere. It's unfortunate that so many people hang on everything they say or do. My personal guideline is that if something I say or do offends someone or hurts someone's feelings, I need to apologize and stop saying that kind of thing. it's the Golden Rule; we'd all be better off following it, including royals and peons.

[JCMach1]

107. Ask me if I care a jot about the Uber rich heirs of colonial exploiters

[erronis]

109. Interesting encounter with a elderly white woman in Vermont - she thought Meghan was just tanned...

When she found out through this interview that she was colored, she became disapproving.

I see this in the rural areas I visit. People appear to be open except when race or non-xian religion is brought up.

Like everyone says. Check yourself for inner biases. They are there.

[Sogo]

111. I never saw the interview, because I don't subscribe to any streaming service,

but I'd really like to see it, possibly as a youtube video or some other way....

Having said that, and having read some of the responses here, I'd just like to say, it really angers me that the QUEEN herself didn't step in to aid her (supposed favorite) grandson, his wife, and their child with the difficulties they were having with her organization. I find it impossible to believe that the Queen would have approved of the marriage in the first place if she held these racist attitudes. So, why didn't she just put her foot down and start cleaning house of those who were the offenders in this matter? Or is it possible that she, too, is just controlled and manipulated to the point that she really has no power over her own life and family? It all seems so odd and uncaring and, indeed, reflects poorly on that monarchy.

[BannonsLiver]

118. It was broadcast over the air

Anyone with a TV and an antenna could have watched it.

[Sogo]

121. Yes...."and an antenna"....

....even if I had an antenna, I’m in a remote enough area, it likely could not have picked up the station that would have been broadcasting it.

[BannonsLiver]

122. Well, most people don't live in that scenario.

But thanks for the info.

[Sogo]

123. Glad to have broadened your awareness....

nt.

[littlemissmartypants]

135. If you have a smart phone you can

Download the CBS app and watch it on your phone.

[Sogo]

147. Thank you.

[littlemissmartypants]

148. You're welcome.❤ nt

[dixiechiken1]

116. Not following "Keeping Up With the Windsors". Sorry.

[littlemissmartypants]

136. They are Sussexes. eom

[dixiechiken1]

143. Not keeping up with them either.

[littlemissmartypants]

146. Pellucidly* clear, after all you didn't know their last name.

*hat tip to malaise

[Starry Messenger]

129. I'm a Meghan fan

Prince Harry came off well in the interview too. I sympathize with them, I like them, and it makes me happy that they live here in CA.

It is interesting, because there are people who think that class trumps race, but these members of elite-tier aristocracy/royal class found that simply wasn't true. Harry's face when he talks about knowing about racism vs. really seeing it was affecting.

[barbtries]

133. Because of your post bigtree,

I am watching the interview now. it is being streamed on cbs.com with all the same and many commercials I'd be watching if I had seen the broadcast version.

I hate commercials. But I like Meghan and Harry. At the end of the day, it's about racism. The racism is apparently as ingrained in the UK as it is here. The new part is the "institution" which i take to be the institution of the Crown, which considers its fate to be dependent on good press, including the tabloid press, which is apparently still manifesting the racist attitudes of the 20th century. We don't even have to mention misogyny but of course it is an element.

all the headlines i'm seeing today seem to be that the royal family is very upset about the interview, and my first thought about that is the same thought I have now having seen it: they're comfortable with racism, but not with being called out for it. so fuck them. They had a golden opportunity to move the world in the right direction and decided against it.

All they had to do was publicly deny false stories and defend Harry and his wife. That's all they had to do.

[demigoddess]

134. I think it is a case of Harry not wanting to lose his wife like he lost his mother to the press.

on top of that, I cannot understand that the only difference between white people and POC physically is just a little skin tone. Like one person having freckles and another not. Or like the difference between a blond and a redhead. We are all human, color doesn't matter, really. Racists are just stupid.

[littlemissmartypants]

137. Thanks. ❤ nt

[Buckeye_Democrat]

139. It's clearly a widespread problem.

I would've assumed that the royal family, with their privileges and educational opportunities, wouldn't be that way. Yet they are.

It was clear to me years ago that it went far beyond USA borders, though.

Just one example from years ago:

I worked with a married couple from India and mentioned to them, matter-of-factly, that all humans on the planet have African origins. They were both from wealthier and better-educated families than most over there, and their son was a medical doctor in this country. Anyway, they got very upset at me for even suggesting that they ever had any ancestors from Africa. I then clarified it, stating that I'm referring to very distant ancestry in some cases. They still argued against the idea, proclaiming it was a complete impossibility for THEIR ancestors, no matter how long ago in the past. Long story short, they obviously associated Africa with all kinds of negative stereotypes and they refused to be even remotely related to it.

[Beringia]

141. Denial ain't just a river

[drlindaphd]

145. Interesting interview

Sorry but I cannot feel really bad for Harry and Meghan. They are getting everything they wanted, they are uber-rich, and have all of the attention they crave.

I do not believe the Royal Family is racist as a group. The queen certainly is not. Prince Phillip has had his moments, but his remarks were mostly about Asians, although this does not excuse him. The Royals have had at least two biracial queens; Queen Charlotte, wife of George III and Queen Phillipa, wife of Edward III.

Yes, there are racists in Britain, just as there are racists in the US. No doubt there are racists in the family.

Prince Harry is not perfect. I remember his antics when he was younger, including dressing up as a Nazi. I do sympathize with his not wanting his wife to go through what his mother suffered, but she was not an innocent either. She went on TV and trashed Prince Charles and as a Licensed Psychologist I can attest to the fact she had a Borderline Personality Disorder which made her quite unstable.

The Royals have status, wealth and privilege and when becoming a member of this family I would expect there are rules and limitations. If Meghan did not want to live with that it is fine, but she should have known this before she married Harry.

Oh, and the tabloid press was despicable to her. Just like they are despicable to every one in the spotlight. Yes, it was wrong, but it was also not unexpected. The press had done this to Royals before like Princess Margaret, Princess Diana, and Fergie.

[RVN VET71]

152. I didn't watch the interview but I think I understand what the couple evinced

They pretty much told the world why they had to get out of the irrelevant, hateful, narrow, insignificant, overblown, costly, worthless and racist royal family.

And the descriptions I’ve seen in the comments regarding Megan’s treatment prove once and for all that the issue of monarchy in England needs to be addressed and the wealthy ne’er-do-wells pensioned off to live in tiny cottages by the sea where they can gather periodically and sniff at the wind, damn the commoners, and laugh through tight lips at the foibles and struggles of the working classes. And, oh yes, ridicule, while sipping their tea, the African and Asian and Semitic populations of the Earth. All out of sight and hearing of the world. Isolated from civilization as if they were living in a bubble on the moon. (Someone should write a play! Something like “Waiting for Godot” without the existential angst. Maybe “Babbling with the Royals.”)

The “firm” as its called allowed -- and even delighted in -- the sufferings of Diana, a young woman who would have been, no question, the living image of what the world imagines when it thinks of the term “good queen.” A caring, compassionate, involved and, most of all, just beautiful person. They killed her, either directly or indirectly and learned not a goddamned thing from the experience. Liz and Chuckie seem not to care that their position is an empty one which can be taken down and erased by act of Parliament. Would that Parliament would take the hint.

[MicaelS]

157. Great post. n/t

[RVN VET71]

159. Thank'ee!

[Saoirse9]

153. I was surprised but I shouldn't have been

When she said it would be better for everyone if she were not alive that broke my heart.

Sure she and Harry had a very soft
landing when they fell from grace. But that doesn’t mean it hurt any less.

I am glad she’s here where she is appreciated. I hope that family can wake up and heal the rift with she and Harry. He’s the golden boy and anyone he married would have caught a lot of flak but this is mostly due to jealousy over her popularity and hatred because of the color of her skin.

Beyond sad for that family. I totally blame Charles. He learned nothing from Diana’s death.

[MicaelS]

154. I blame the Queen. She is selfish.

She should have retired and abdicated in favor of Charles at the turn of the century. He is 72 years old for god’s sake, and still under his mother’s thumb. No wonder he is spineless.

[obamanut2012]

155. Yup, blame the woman for the actions of the men in her life

She is far from perfect, and should have kicked Andrew to the curb years ago, but she didn't cause Andrew to rape minors, and she didn't cause Charles to be a bigoted dick to his DIL.

[MicaelS]

156. She is the head of The Firm.

The pound stops with her.

If she knew the racism existed and did nothing about it she is guilty as hell.
If she knew about Meghan’s cry for help and did nothing, she is evil.

If she did not know what was happening, then who is really running things?

She was clueless when Diana died, and she is clueless now.

My prediction is when she dies, the monarchy will end.

[Saoirse9]

158. I think he's an ass

and she should stick around as long as she can to keep him from being king.

There’s no precedent that I know if for a British monarch to abdicate in favor of his/her successor.

Charles is a spoiled brat who treated his first wife horribly. Now his daughter in law.